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Thread: Why is Mattel giving us black plastic and painting over it?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Oil is up, Chinese labor is up, dollar is down.
    That's not true - at least the oil part. I keep reading people using that to justify price increases, and it's especially funny because "2008 prices" of oil were actually much higher. Oil has gone down considerably since then.

    That said, sure, lots of things have gotten more expensive - but oil isn't one of them.

  2. #27
    Heroic Hyperborean NorthCoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EtherianChronicles View Post
    That's not true - at least the oil part. I keep reading people using that to justify price increases, and it's especially funny because "2008 prices" of oil were actually much higher. Oil has gone down considerably since then.

    That said, sure, lots of things have gotten more expensive - but oil isn't one of them.
    You're right, oil is down from the huge spike in '08, but you can see the overall trends:

    Macrotrends.org_The_Dollar_Gold_and_Oil_Last_Five_Years.jpeg
    Last edited by NorthCoast; August 3, 2012 at 08:35am.
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  3. #28
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    The Chinese vs. US economies is the biggest factor driving cost increases.

  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior Metalogan's Avatar
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    wait a minute, are u all serious about vykron??? does anyone have pics. I am hopefully getting mine soon, but damn, what a huge let down. I paid +$30.00 for it. And also, is this with just SOME vykrons and not all??? what gives?

  5. #30
    MOTUClassics.Com Daniel Lynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdultCollector View Post
    I've heard from several people that they discovered Vykron and Spikor were made with black plastic that was then painted over, rather than with plastic of the appropriate color. Can this be confirmed, and if true, can we be provided with an explanation as to why this change has occurred in Mattel's production methods when making MOTUC figures? I thought that by increasing the price of the figures, we'd be increasing the quality of the figures, not decreasing it.
    Not jumping to Matty's aid here, but they've been doing this for years. Wundar's head being cast in black plastic is one example that springs to mind. Like Northcoast said, it's usually about the shared tooling that we're not privy to. That said, the paint apps are one of the most expensive parts of the production so I'm curious about it too.
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  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior CAIRO's Avatar
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    This is the case with all. BEWARE if you scratch or knick that face you will expose the black underneath and it will ruin the figure!

    sorry.

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  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior Dr_SLUMP's Avatar
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    That's what I said a couple of days ago in the Vykor arrival thread. I initially liked my Vykor figure but I ruined his shoulder just by gently posing him for display! I can confirm that this is the first time this happens with a MOTUC figure and I have a complete collection.

    Different colored bucks make the figure absolutely unsuitable for play with or by children and for me this kills the secondary subscription I've been keeping for my children

    Now that you mention it, Spikor has the same problem, I ruined his left arm by making him hold up his accessory. Totally unacceptable for me!

    Edit: is anyone into modeling/customs? I consider painting the chips with (tiny bits of) a very accurate color. I have no idea what should I use...
    Last edited by Dr_SLUMP; August 3, 2012 at 06:21am.
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  9. #34
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    On certain parts that share molds, this has been common (look at the mixed up mess they made of the DCUC Atom, with pieces cast in blue and painted in red and vice-versa, with none of it matching in color or finish). Triklop's forearm was new at the time he was made, and was part of the same mold as his specific parts, thus it was cast in green and painted a shiny flesh color. With Spikor, though, I am a bit puzzled about the black, as it doesn't seem to folow the usual patterns we've seen. Maybe they had a surplus of black plastic and decided to use it up rather than getting some purple?
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Maybe they had a surplus of black plastic and decided to use it up rather than getting some purple?
    Totally unacceptable. And to come at a time when they are promising improvements in quality control? This is outrageous! If any of my figures turn up with black bucks, I'm asking for a refund. So far I've been ok, but I've not received my Vykrons yet.

    Does anyone know if this is affecting ALL Vykron figures, or just some?

  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    I did not notice this on Spikor but I have not opened my Vykron (Tank Version) yet. Just for the sake of paint rub on any figure, the joints should at least be molded in their base color. But if indeed his body is molded entirely in black with painted flesh tone, that stinks beyond belief. I will confirm when I open him this weekend.

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_SLUMP View Post
    is anyone into modeling/customs? I consider painting the chips with (tiny bits of) a very accurate color. I have no idea what should I use...
    I'm not "into" modeling/customs, but Matty has forced me into "part-time customising" . That is to say - when I get sloppy or missing paint apps (or get the urge to improve them), I break out the acrylic paints. (I've also fixed figures that Matty wrecked - e.g. switching Stinkor's arms so that they no longer "pop" )

    Go to your nearest modelling shop & you'll be much happier with you MOTUC when you're done fixing them.
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  13. #38
    King of Eternia Cringer_luvr's Avatar
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    This has been one of the NUMBER 1 complaints since year 1 of MOTUC, the list Val gave Scott at NY had "NO painted hands" on it, which we are still getting, please stop painting areas of use/rub it makes no sense when you can just use the correct color plastic and then paint highlights onto it, but please stop with the black(or other color plastic) and painting over it.
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  14. #39
    sculptor - fantastique JimPansen's Avatar
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    My Spikors knee joint after the first bend grumble

    [IMG][/IMG]

  15. #40
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    This really is odd; usually, the plastic used matches some parts of the figure. I could see Spikor made completely of the light or dark purple, but there aren't any body parts that are black that would seem to need to share the mold.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wundarwarrior View Post
    I mean it is the convenient and probable cause of the problem. Meaning they could've been produced in the same run since they were both july releases. So maybe the plastic was the issue. The buck should be the standard one.
    Ah, gotcha. Well, hopefully that is the case cuz hopefully that would mean that from here on out right shoulders will be as moveable as they usually are.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPansen View Post
    My Spikors knee joint after the first bend grumble

    http://<a href="http://www.pic-uploa...xd.jpg</a></a>
    It's crap like this, is why I didn't want to sub, and have a MOSC collection instead of loose figures, but now it's worse because they are painting who figures now instead of using the right color plastic. And sorry, paint does not hold up inside joints and under a lot of movement no matter what kind of paint you use.

    And doing a lot of customs, paint is paint, no matter how much you prep it sits on top of the plastic, and will flake off, the best paint I have ever used with very minimal rubbing and hardly ever any flaking is the Tamiya spray paints, it like bonds to the plastic like it's a second skin, however that Krylon Fusion sucks, and flakes every time.

    I'm not getting my hopes up, but I hope I get what I pay for next year with the "$25 is what it costs" crap, but I still see a loss of paint and accessories no matter what was said, and if they say "$25 is what it costs" how are we going to see more accessories and paint apps? My first sub will be my last no matter who is coming in 2014 if that's the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    This really is odd; usually, the plastic used matches some parts of the figure. I could see Spikor made completely of the light or dark purple, but there aren't any body parts that are black that would seem to need to share the mold.
    The loin cloth is the only black, black piece, but it's softer. It's stupid to do it regardless unless it's one piece like Fisto's bicep, but even then.

    But in all honesty, "regrind" is much cheaper to use, because it's recycled plastic and being a mix of colors, black is usually how it turns out, black colored chips or beads are added and bam, you get black recycled plastic....good for 5 Gallon Buckets, not for action figures....stupid.

    I've worked in injection molding, and we never used regrind for any other color but black, unless there's a dedicated machine for grinding each color, and clears, it's always black.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; August 3, 2012 at 02:46pm.
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  18. #43
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Interesting; I never thought of used plastic. Given the cries of anguish we hear from Mattel about costs, that sounds like a very possible explaination. I can't help but wonder what that would do to the ultimate longevity of the figure; does the second use weaken the plastic in the long run?
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  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Dr_SLUMP's Avatar
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    Chemically, no. But if the plastic itself is really old stock, it can obviously age (getting sticky, brittle, etc) sooner.

    The main problem is that these figures are now 100% display pieces, aka poseable statues and NOT action figures that a child can play without significant damage.
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  20. #45
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Interesting; I never thought of used plastic. Given the cries of anguish we hear from Mattel about costs, that sounds like a very possible explaination. I can't help but wonder what that would do to the ultimate longevity of the figure; does the second use weaken the plastic in the long run?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_SLUMP View Post
    Chemically, no. But if the plastic itself is really old stock, it can obviously age (getting sticky, brittle, etc) sooner.

    The main problem is that these figures are now 100% display pieces, aka poseable statues and NOT action figures that a child can play without significant damage.
    Usually the plastic isn't old, it's usually from the batches as they get reground down from previous runs of whatever they are making, therefore all it is is just remelted and reformed in the machine, but as I said before painted joints are never a good idea, as they scuff, chip and rub off. Ask any customizer and they'll tell you the same, no matter what prep work goes into it, or how good the paint is, it will come off if played with or moved, and it can be only a few times to do so, even first time you move it.

    It may be a cheaper alternative, but in the end for those who open their figures, it's a rip off, we want the best possible figures we can get for the money, and it's not wise to paint an entire action figure, or good business, paint isn't an alternative to molding something in color, especially if it's used in places that rub. And that is the problem, we are paying for action figures, not statues.

    What good is a high dollar adult figure if you can't pose it without worrying you'll gouge the paint off? Might save money, but once again not good practice Mattel.
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  21. #46
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPansen View Post
    My Spikors knee joint after the first bend grumble

    http://<a href="http://www.pic-uploa...xd.jpg</a></a>
    That's awful
    So his mace is limp, his eyes are wonky and his skin peels off ... I guess Spikor can now be added to the list of flawed figures, such a shame.
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  22. #47
    Hero of Eternia zodak74's Avatar
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    Has anybody posed this question to ToyGuru on the Ask Matty forums?

  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior RyDell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPansen View Post
    My Spikors knee joint after the first bend grumble

    http://<a href="http://www.pic-uploa...xd.jpg</a></a>
    This happened to my Spikor as well... same exact spot. I noticed this an a few others that I saw pictures off.. seems to be the weak are where the paint peels. I assume he fell on his knees begging Skeletor for forgiveness, and got a scratch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_SLUMP View Post
    Chemically, no. But if the plastic itself is really old stock, it can obviously age (getting sticky, brittle, etc) sooner.

    The main problem is that these figures are now 100% display pieces, aka poseable statues and NOT action figures that a child can play without significant damage.
    This isn't true at all... My kids play with MOTUC constantly, continually change heads, armor, etc. Nothing has been a problem... they even take them into the bath (Leech, Mer-Man, Skeletor, He-Man are always under water) No problems. Unless a kid is going to scrape the figures across the pavement I haven't seen any problems. If the next few figures are painted over black plastic, then I would have more reason to worry,
    Last edited by RyDell; August 4, 2012 at 09:36am.
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  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior Dr_SLUMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyDell View Post
    This isn't true at all... My kids play with MOTUC constantly, continually change heads, armor, etc. Nothing has been a problem... they even take them into the bath (Leech, Mer-Man, Skeletor, He-Man are always under water) No problems. Unless a kid is going to scrape the figures across the pavement I haven't seen any problems. If the next few figures are painted over black plastic, then I would have more reason to worry,
    You got me wrong, that's exactly my point. This issue started with the arrival of Vykron and Spikor. Before that, the figures were perfectly fine for being played by children. But since the paint-overs, severe damage can be caused just with one playing session.

    So from now on, I cannot consider this toyline as action figures. Unless it was the case with only the two aforementioned figures, MOTUC are now poseable decorative statues.

    @zodak74 indeed, somebody must take action about this. It's definitely the worst issue with this toyline so far, it's much worse than loose joints or reversed shoulders. I expect this to get big as soon as peeling occurs.
    Last edited by Dr_SLUMP; August 4, 2012 at 09:53am.
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  25. #50
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_SLUMP View Post
    You got me wrong, that's exactly my point. This issue started with the arrival of Vykron and Spikor. Before that, the figures were perfectly fine for being played by children. But since the paint-overs, severe damage can be caused just with one playing session.

    So from now on, I cannot consider this toyline as action figures. Unless it was the case with only the two aforementioned figures, MOTUC are now poseable decorative statues.
    Let's just hope these 2 are isolated incidents.
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