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Thread: Why is Mattel giving us black plastic and painting over it?

  1. #751
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Now Scott is deflecting the switch to appropriately colored plastic by blaming the paint? Seriously?! The paint might chip and wear down a little bit slower but it WILL happen because the joints place too much friction on the paint. Unless they use the same paint that jet planes use, it ain't gonna solve the issue!
    Besides the black showing, look at that crappy spot on his right bicep. I never saw this kind of glop before until it showed up on my Spikor. I think there is something definitely wrong with the paint they are using as well as the black plastic. Double whammy.
    Thing is, there has to be some sort of paint issue here, as well, because it isn’t like Mattel just started painting joints. I haven’t heard cases of Triklop’s painted arm chipping around the elbow joint, and I have a DCUC Atom I’ve mentioned before that’s a mish-mashed mess of painted and colored red and blue plastic; it looks horrible because nothing matches in color or finish, but it hasn’t started peeling off like what we’re seeing now. There is something different going on here, and I think it is a combination of the quality of the plastic and the paint being gobbed on it. I firmly believe this is recycled plastic as many have surmised (if the savings were just from buying one color in bulk, only an idiot would buy the hardest color to paint over; they would have tried for a more neutral color). As such, I have no idea what’s mixed in here; there may actually be different grades of plastic melted together for all we know. It’s entirely possible that something in this plastic affects the paint adhesion, maybe a slightly different finish or even something the plastic releases (hello, white dust, part deux?) that makes it harder for the paint to actually stick. There’s also a very real possibility that, since the paint likely has to be thicker to cover the black, more would be needed, and that might mean they’ve switched to a cheaper paint. As has been noted, we’ve never seen the kind of glop in the joints we’re seeing now (again, Triklop’s arm is flesh painted green plastic, and I don’t recall big wads of paint in the elbow joint). I think it’s a perfect storm of lousy plastic AND lousy paint, all as part of the cost cutting Mattel is crowing about.

    It's my understanding that this dumb idea came from the Matty design department which is headed up by "Ruben" and therefore falls squarely on his lap. How someone heading design doesn't understand the concept of wear and tear on painted articulation points/joints due to friction(NOT BAD PAINT!) is beyond me.
    I have no idea whose idea it was; design seems to be TG’s default these days to be thrown under the bus when there’s trouble. I seriously doubt that MOTUC is the only Mattel product getting the black plastic treatment. The cost cutting Mattel is boasting about (hey, we’re making a profit by making our toys crappier! Yay, us!) is likely across the board, and I’d be curious to see what some of the upcoming toys from other lines use. Hard to tell right now, as the main action figure line out there is Dark Knight, and the predominant color there is already black. I’m wondering what we’ll see with the handful of DC figures they are making in coming months; how much black plastic might lie beneath the yellow and red shield? And how many of the Man of Steel figures next year will have this wonderful new feature beneath their primary colors?

    Usually, when there is a problem at Mattel, it isn’t limited to one line. They like to spread the ineptitude around as much as possible…
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  2. #752
    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    It will be interesting, but it will come back to bite them when people want refunds and exchanges. I can't believe how much my opnion of Mattel/MOTUC has changed over the space of 3-4 weeks.

    If you can't make good toys, don't make them! - simple. Don't insult the consumers and the talent behind the sculpts with stupid "design" choices.
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  3. #753
    exclu-DEAD stprime's Avatar
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    i'm starting to think castle grayskull was a deterrent in attempt to change attention from blastic.
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  4. #754
    Beasts were made to kill Mamblo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stprime View Post
    i'm starting to think castle grayskull was a deterrent in attempt to change attention from blastic.
    Of course it is

  5. #755
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    And they've ALREADY seen mass exodus. Subs are down like 75%, meaning 3 out of 4 customers have already gone. If that's not enough to wake them up, I don't think ultimatums over use of blastic will. This boat's been sinking for a couple of years now and TG is pitching water with a bucket.
    If only they pitched some water out of the boat instead of into it. The line's in agony and Mattel's disaster-managing strategy is to keep adding insult to injury (yet another "this is your figure, we won't fix it" reverse-limbs fiasco, mythical sub page still not working, snarky "you only bought 135%" backpedalling, etc.), and on top of it they're now ruining every new figure with blastic crap. Brilliant.

    But, of course, it's all our fault.
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  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamblo View Post
    I'm wondering if somebody was aware about black plastic during the 2013 subscription campaign!
    Mattel knew well in advance of the sub sales, because it takes a month or more to go from production to final sealed packages, and since Spikor was the first affected, then Vykron, They knew well in advance, but said nothing....a huge deception and a slap in the face of MOTUC fans, as well as those like me who were not going to sub, but did, thinking the price increase, was goin to cover things in 2013, well sorry, my card expires in Jan, and even if I get stuck with Netossa....I will not renew my card on Matty for Feb if I know this garbage has not ended....the one of the reveals I care most about is Ram-Man, and I already have him PO'd on BBTS in case of emergency like this....so other than that was King He-Man & the Foe Men, but neither are essential to my collection.
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  7. #757
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    I started a thread as a statement to Mattel:

    If you mold Grayskull in black plastic and also don't fix the paint problems, I will not buy it.

    I think this should be put in the legal terms of our agreement too (but they'd never do that). We'll see if anyone agrees with me. I'm not buying it if it's not cast in the base color. And even then I may not. We'll have to see how things are in QC land for the next couple months.

  8. #758
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely. Point blank, black plastic is not the reason the paint is rubbing. Nor is this an issue regarding inferior paints causing chipping and rubbing issues. Yes, Mattel did mold multiple separate parts in the thousands all at once to save on manufacturing costs and seemingly arbitrarily choose black as the color for the plastic, but this color of plastic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAINT CHIPPING, RUBBING or COMING OFF. The paint issue appears to be one of insufficient paint curing at the manufacturing level. So again, two separate issues. Hate the color of plastic beneath if you must, but I guarantee if you started stripping away the paint on earlier MOTUC figures you're going to find black plastic under there. Did this previously cause rubbing and chipping? This doesn't appear to be the case (at least not en masse), so using logical deduction it must not be a problem with black plastic.

    The go foward is that Mattel is aware of the paint issues and are taking steps to resolve the curing problems at the factory. Moreover, Scott has passed along to design that black plastic is not the desired color (for whatever that's worth- and by my count not much). So... given these facts (or close to)... why exactly do we continue to beat this drum guys?? It seems to me that issue awareness has been raised, the problem is being dealt with, and by late fall/winter of this year we should see positive change. With all due respect to the fan community, further discussion as to specific instances or calling out specific future figures and hoping they aren't candidates for the dreaded black plastic seems akin to the definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

    This all being said, I personally could care less what color Greyskull is molded in as long as the paint doesn't chip/rub.
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  9. #759
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Thing is, there has to be some sort of paint issue here, as well, because it isn’t like Mattel just started painting joints. I haven’t heard cases of Triklop’s painted arm chipping around the elbow joint
    My Tri-Klops came with some tiny chips in the paint on his forearm but otherwise the figure was great. I went online and traded for another forearm with better paint applications and solved the problem. That said, the Tri-Klops forearm hinge is only painted on one side. If the upper bicep part was painted, you would have seen a lot more paint problems.

    In regards to the shoulder ball hinges, even though the torso isn't painted, the deltoids move slightly in their sockets and the torso will scrap the paint off when you extend the arms out to the sides. There's no getting around that one and any paint process they use won't solve that particular issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orko's Magic Hat View Post
    It will be interesting, but it will come back to bite them when people want refunds and exchanges. I can't believe how much my opnion of Mattel/MOTUC has changed over the space of 3-4 weeks.

    If you can't make good toys, don't make them! - simple. Don't insult the consumers and the talent behind the sculpts with stupid "design" choices.

    This painted plastic fiasco, if continued with the 2013 figures will effectively kill any chances at a 2014 Club Eternia.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 2, 2012 at 03:38pm.
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  10. #760
    Heroic Warrior Robogeek1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    I predict a massive wave of 'lost' creditcards after Jitsu, if they persist on using the black plastic.
    I know that if I'd bought into the sub this is exactly what would've happened to my card.

  11. #761
    Heroic Warrior Adam_Adamant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely.
    I've certainly read/heard Mattel's explanation on the matter and don't think it addressing the issue adequately.

    Most earlier figures were molded in a color of plastic that represented their base color e.g., He-Man in skin tones and Skeletor in blue. By using any color of plastic other than the character's base color you're inevitably going to have to paint large areas of the figure. I don't think I'm alone in saying that doesn't seem like a particularly good idea if what you're painting is going to be handled often or rub up against something in anyway (be it in your toy chest with other figures or when simply posing a figure's arms or getting them to hold a weapon etc.). No matter how much curing you give the kind of paints used in the toy industry they're not going to withstand this kind of treatment by the end user....a statue I can understand, but not a relatively well-articulated action figure.

  12. #762
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    I predict a massive wave of 'lost' creditcards after Jitsu, if they persist on using the black plastic.
    Well, I already predicted a Mass Exodus but I never said exactly when it would happen. I think you hit the nail on the head with Jitsu.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely. Point blank, black plastic is not the reason the paint is rubbing. Nor is this an issue regarding inferior paints causing chipping and rubbing issues. Yes, Mattel did mold multiple separate parts in the thousands all at once to save on manufacturing costs and seemingly arbitrarily choose black as the color for the plastic, but this color of plastic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAINT CHIPPING, RUBBING or COMING OFF. The paint issue appears to be one of insufficient paint curing at the manufacturing level. So again, two separate issues.
    Believing what Scott said is the only ignorant thing I've heard so far. Black, green, yellow, or turqoise plastic doesn't cause the paint to rub off and so far nobody has blamed the plastic for purposely chipping the paint. That said, it has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH painting already tight contact points between the swivel and hinge joints. They were designed to fit snuggly together, adding layers of paint to both sides builds up the joints resistance due to friction directly related to overly snug joints that were not mean't to be painted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    Hate the color of plastic beneath if you must, but I guarantee if you started stripping away the paint on earlier MOTUC figures you're going to find black plastic under there. Did this previously cause rubbing and chipping? This doesn't appear to be the case (at least not en masse), so using logical deduction it must not be a problem with black plastic.
    What are you talking about? Guarantee? We can't strip away paint from entire arms and legs of earlier figures because they didn't have completely painted arms or legs, only boots. I can guarantee you won't find black plastic underneath there on all but 3 figures because it wasn't there to begin with. You really need to know what your saying before you say it. Muddying the waters with statements not based on facts isn't helping matters. Going on actual facts, here is what we had before Vykron.


    Man-E-Faces: He had painted upper thighs and the bend on his inner arms. If you boil and pop the arms apart you'll notice that only the surface areas are painted, not inside the swivel joints themselves which would have led to chipping. As for the upper thighs, mine have some minor paint damage from friction against the loincloth so I no longer pose this figure with his painted upper thighs against his loincloth to help keep it from becoming a major issue.

    Trap-Jaw: The left shoulder is painted but the black rubber boot protects the sharper torso socket from scraping the paint off his shoulder. The upper thighs are painted but the softer loincloth doesn't cause friction with the paint.

    Tri-Klops: Left forearm is painted but the bicep isn't. If only one side of a swivel is painted it GREATLY reduces the friction and keeps scraping to a minimum.

    Scareglow: This one is actually painted black inside the lower half of the knee hinge. Again, only painted on one side.

    Fisto: Painted upper right bicep that has friction on the underside against his deltoid so any possible scraping is hidden. But again, the bicep is painted and the deltoid is not. The external lower bicep has very minimal friction because the forearm is flesh colored plastic. Yet another example of how only one side being painted reduces friction greatly and helps avoid paint chipping.


    Painted Hands

    The figures I own with this are Prince Adam, King Randor, Kobra Khan, Roboto, Count Marzo, Man-E-Faces, Catra, Stinkor, King Hsss, Sorceress, Queen Marlena, and Adora.

    My Prince Adam and King Randor had paint chip inside their grips and the paint on my Adam actually got stuck to the paint on his black sword hilt so when I removed the hilt, it pulled black paint off of the hilt and onto his hand. I have since replaced the hands on both figures with flesh colored plastic hands and the problem has been solved. Count Marzo's hands look rough. The black plastic underneath makes them darker than they should be and the hand that holds his amulet chipped as soon as I removed the amulet the very first time. Most of the other figures I mentioned are either still carded or I don't place any weapons in their hands at all.

    Fearless Photog, Optikk, Icarius(hands) and Thunderpunch He-Man(right fist)are other figures I should comment on but I don't own any of them and can't give factual observations on them. Saying anything about either would be muddying the waters.

    If you've been keeping count, only Count Marzo, Trap-Jaw, and Stinkor had black plastic anywhere beneath painted parts. Again, only 3 figures had black plastic anywhere underneath their paint. Catra's hand might be black underneath but I have her carded and can't verify this. I can guarantee that your guarantee was poorly given on this subject matter.



    The color of the plastic beneath isn't the problem. Nor is this bogus paint curing excuse. Increased friction between the already tight joints is the ONLY problem.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 2, 2012 at 05:22pm.
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  13. #763
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely. Point blank, black plastic is not the reason the paint is rubbing. Nor is this an issue regarding inferior paints causing chipping and rubbing issues. Yes, Mattel did mold multiple separate parts in the thousands all at once to save on manufacturing costs and seemingly arbitrarily choose black as the color for the plastic, but this color of plastic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAINT CHIPPING, RUBBING or COMING OFF. The paint issue appears to be one of insufficient paint curing at the manufacturing level. So again, two separate issues. Hate the color of plastic beneath if you must, but I guarantee if you started stripping away the paint on earlier MOTUC figures you're going to find black plastic under there. Did this previously cause rubbing and chipping? This doesn't appear to be the case (at least not en masse), so using logical deduction it must not be a problem with black plastic.

    The go foward is that Mattel is aware of the paint issues and are taking steps to resolve the curing problems at the factory. Moreover, Scott has passed along to design that black plastic is not the desired color (for whatever that's worth- and by my count not much). So... given these facts (or close to)... why exactly do we continue to beat this drum guys?? It seems to me that issue awareness has been raised, the problem is being dealt with, and by late fall/winter of this year we should see positive change. With all due respect to the fan community, further discussion as to specific instances or calling out specific future figures and hoping they aren't candidates for the dreaded black plastic seems akin to the definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

    This all being said, I personally could care less what color Greyskull is molded in as long as the paint doesn't chip/rub.
    With all due respect, most here don't really care that the plastic is black per se (except that painting over black requires more paint, which is coming out gloppy in many cases), but that it is not the base color of the figure's skin tone. Because even if the paint job was top notch perfect, over time paint will wear out, especially around joints. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me over and over again, No... not letting that happen. Believing Mattel when they say they know why the paint is flaking off would be foolish. They still stick to their sonic welding issue causing the issues with The Goddess, yet we see cracks in Roboto and Photog. So case 1 where their explanation for a defect is insufficient to fix the problem. Case 2 - they gave reasons for reversed body parts when Hssss came out, yet we see reversed Stinkor, Frosta, Roboto, even Swiftwind's legs. Case 2 where Mattel's explanation for a defect is insufficient to fix the problem. And there are others. DR anyone?

    So pardon the rest of us for not fully believing what Mattel is saying regarding this issue. And even if they are correct, and the paint issue is solved, Mattel's customers have a right to vocalize what they want from the product they are buying.

    You don't care what color Grayskull is molded in as long as the paint doesn't chip/rub. Given the propensity for quality control problems in this line, the fact that this is our only shot at Grayskull, and that Mattel won't fix any problems that affect the entire run, are you really confident in Mattel's ability to deliver a quality product? That's a mighty big "as long as" you're granting Mattel that many of us here just won't continue to grant. If someone violates your trust so many times, you are rightful to withdraw that trust.

    If we weren't here holding Mattel's feet to the fire, they'd cheap out even more than they already are. The question behind every decision Mattel makes is this, "Can we save more money making this cut than we'll lose in customers quitting the line?" That is a decision most companies make every day. And if we just sit here quietly, they will think they can cut more. But if we let them know, over and over and repeatedly until they stop with all this nonsense, then they have to think extra hard about making a cut because they know it will push a certain number of people out the door. And we can't vote with our wallets again until next July, so we choose to speak up. Mattel has set this whole situation up so that the only recourse we really have is to speak up and nag the hell out of them. They dont' do the right thing on their own - they've shown it time and time again.
    Last edited by jibernish; October 3, 2012 at 07:57am.

  14. #764
    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    Jiberish, I totally agree with you - I let things like reversed sholders, loose ankles pass but we need to keep speaking up about this issue more. I wonder if DC figures will have this issue - I'll have a Poison Ivy coming this month - it will be interesting to see if she's blasticised as well.
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  15. #765
    Heroic Warrior Inhibitor's Avatar
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    Scott keeps mentioning the "square peg, round hole" analogy to describe Mattel's inability to adapt itself to the adult collector market. Well square peg, meet 100 ton sledgehammer. Meet relentless critical feedback until all your edges are rounded off. Admission of failure is worthless unless accompanied by a willingness to improve.

    First thing TG and Mattel should bear in mind regarding the collector's market is value and value over time. The 4H's designs will not be able to prevent a serious markdown when the materials used are destroying the aesthetic. If these cost cutting measures don't go away next year after the price increase, I can't blame anyone for letting this line die.

    Painting over joints, especially shoulders and hips should be avoided at all costs. At the very least, it should not be the norm.
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  16. #766
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely. Point blank, black plastic is not the reason the paint is rubbing. Nor is this an issue regarding inferior paints causing chipping and rubbing issues. Yes, Mattel did mold multiple separate parts in the thousands all at once to save on manufacturing costs and seemingly arbitrarily choose black as the color for the plastic, but this color of plastic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAINT CHIPPING, RUBBING or COMING OFF. The paint issue appears to be one of insufficient paint curing at the manufacturing level. So again, two separate issues. Hate the color of plastic beneath if you must, but I guarantee if you started stripping away the paint on earlier MOTUC figures you're going to find black plastic under there. Did this previously cause rubbing and chipping? This doesn't appear to be the case (at least not en masse), so using logical deduction it must not be a problem with black plastic.
    Except you make an assumption that has no foundation, namely that the black plastic being used now is the same as that which was used legitimately in the past. If indeed this is recycled plastic (and I've already gone through the logic behind that deduction), we're in new territory here. Different kinds of plastic are going to react differently to being painted; if the plastic is leeching something (think the white powder, only slimier), then that is going to affect how the paint adhere's to the surface. Point is, they said it was done as a cost saving manuever, so at the very least it has to be cheaper and likely of lesser quality (thus the conclusion it is likely recycled, something thay haven't refuted to my knowledge). When you change materials, especially if they are now cheaper materials, there are often consequences in the end product.

    The final nail in the coffin here is you also have to accept that this problem of not drying the paint properly just happened to occur at the exact same time they started using this new plastic. As I've said, and you state yourself, we've had painted parts before without this problem. But now, suddenly, we have this paint problem and are asked to believe that it has nothing to do with the fact that it just happens to coincide exactly with the use of this new plastic. That's like asking someone to believe they fell because of the effects of gravity, and it had nothing to do with the ladder breaking underneath them.

    There may be something of a half-truth here; perhaps they need to dry the paint longer because of the change in plastic. But, even then, it still comes back to the fact that they have switched to crappier materials to save money, and that is the real root of the problem.

    Then again, the whole explanation given by the powers that be may be total bantha poo-doo to begin with; it's not like they haven't been caught flat footed outright lying to us before. Under the circumstances, you can't expect us to simply accept their word at face value any more. Questioning the words of folks with no credibility left doesn't make one ignorant of the "facts," as you imply; it makes them rational, thinking adults questioning what they are paying their hard earned money for.
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  17. #767
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    If we weren't here holding Mattel's feet to the fire, they'd cheap out even more than they already are. The question behind every decision Mattel makes is this, "Can we save more money making this cut than we'll lose in customers quitting the line?" That is a decision most companies make every day. And if we just sit here quietly, they will think they can cut more. But if we let them know, over and over and repeatedly until they stop with all this nonsense, then they have to think extra hard about making a cut because they know it will push a certain number of people out the door.

    And there you have it!

    If we quietly sit here and let them continue to diminish the quality of OUR MERCHANDISE while they continue to increase the prices we pay for said merchandise, they will walk all over us more than they already have. Why wouldn't they when we keep putting up with their nonsense?

    But hey, you gotta hand it to them. They know how to deflect criticism with our collectively short attention spans, they just throw up the possibility of Castle Grayskull, a free gift for getting something else wrong, and oh yeah, "accidentally" post images of their upcoming FULLY PAINTED BLACK PLASTIC Rattlor with his 200X Snake Armor and many let these distractions draw them away from this VERY BIG PROBLEM many of us are now locked in for financially. This dip in quality of their product would have been great to know about BEFORE WE SUBSCRIBED. Oh yeah, they knew it would hurt sales, so they never brought it up.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 4, 2012 at 07:20am.
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  18. #768
    Heroic Warrior He-Boy's Avatar
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    One other issue about using black plastic is that it changes the colour of the paint on top of it. Dragon Blaster Skeletor looks very different to the other Skeletors and it's not just because they have used a different shade of blue. If that same shade of blue was painted on blue or white plastic it would look different again.

  19. #769
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    For those who weren't in attendance at PowerCon to hear Scott's explanation, aren't reading similar comments in other threads, or are just plain ignorant regarding the topic in general; this concern represents two different issues entirely. Point blank, black plastic is not the reason the paint is rubbing. Nor is this an issue regarding inferior paints causing chipping and rubbing issues. Yes, Mattel did mold multiple separate parts in the thousands all at once to save on manufacturing costs and seemingly arbitrarily choose black as the color for the plastic, but this color of plastic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAINT CHIPPING, RUBBING or COMING OFF. The paint issue appears to be one of insufficient paint curing at the manufacturing level. So again, two separate issues. Hate the color of plastic beneath if you must, but I guarantee if you started stripping away the paint on earlier MOTUC figures you're going to find black plastic under there. Did this previously cause rubbing and chipping? This doesn't appear to be the case (at least not en masse), so using logical deduction it must not be a problem with black plastic.

    The go foward is that Mattel is aware of the paint issues and are taking steps to resolve the curing problems at the factory. Moreover, Scott has passed along to design that black plastic is not the desired color (for whatever that's worth- and by my count not much). So... given these facts (or close to)... why exactly do we continue to beat this drum guys?? It seems to me that issue awareness has been raised, the problem is being dealt with, and by late fall/winter of this year we should see positive change. With all due respect to the fan community, further discussion as to specific instances or calling out specific future figures and hoping they aren't candidates for the dreaded black plastic seems akin to the definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

    This all being said, I personally could care less what color Greyskull is molded in as long as the paint doesn't chip/rub.
    Um....find me a MOTUC figure that has had 3/4 to all of it painted....before July 2012....

    Most figures don't have black as a base color because most figures are not painted aside from a forearm, or a bicep, or the boots & hands....and of course heads.

    He-Man is molded Caucasian skin color, with the armor boots, loin cloth & head molded in red, & weapons molded in gray.
    Tri-klops is molded in Caucasian skin color, with the forearm, armor, sword, boots...etc molded in green.
    MAA is molded in green & orange.
    Skeletor is predominately molded in blue with a few piece molded in purple.

    Know what you are talking about before you try to make those complaining seem stupid....it may help.

    All figures before July 2012 are molded in what color is predominate on the figure....and except for Horde Prime & possibly Faceless one, and even maybe Marzo....most figures were not molded in black plastic, and if they were....none of those ever flaked, peeled or chipped.

    But if the paint drying is an issue, why was it not caught before people pointed it out, and 5+ figures across 3+ months of runs suffered from it? With all the chipping and peeling occurring to MOSC figures....someone noticed, and said...."who the **** cares?"

    Just like if the Sonic welder was what caused Goddess' problems....Did the affected figures produced before the problem was fixed, get scrapped?....no, they got sold to unfortunate collectors. They know it's more of an issue than it seems, but they are just telling us to bend over, and take it basically.

    And most people don't really care about the color underneath, they care that the whole figure is being molded in a color unrelated to the figure, and every inch of the new figures are being painted....not just a hand, or a head, or even a forearm.....the whole damn figure is getting painted. Maybe the "Black Plastic" thing has grown to seem like this is the issue....but what 3/4 of everyone complaining is complaining about is the fact that they don't want the figures painted anymore, regardless of what color the underlying plastic is, it could be white plastic, the issue would still be the same....stop painting the damn entire MOTUC figure, and especially the joints....
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; October 4, 2012 at 09:51pm.
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  20. #770
    Heroic Warrior Inhibitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    And most people don't really care about the color underneath, they care that the whole figure is being molded in a color unrelated to the figure, and every inch of the new figures are being painted....not just a hand, or a head, or even a forearm.....the whole damn figure is getting painted. Maybe the "Black Plastic" thing has grown to seem like this is the issue....but what 3/4 of everyone complaining is complaining about is the fact that they don't want the figures painted anymore, regardless of what color the underlying plastic is, it could be white plastic, the issue would still be the same....stop painting the damn entire MOTUC figure, and especially the joints....
    Absolutely. But even when there isn't any chipping, having to paint the entire body isn't going to look as consistently good as one that is molded that way. It looks mottled in comparison. Alot of us noticed it when they molded Fisto's biceps in a different color too.
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  21. #771
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inhibitor View Post
    Absolutely. But even when there isn't any chipping, having to paint the entire body isn't going to look as consistently good as one that is molded that way. It looks mottled in comparison. Alot of us noticed it when they molded Fisto's biceps in a different color too.
    Exactly, Same with Tri-Klops, and how the face & forearm don't exactly match the rest of the figure. But we can live with those few painted piece, not the entire figure painted.

    Fisto is molded in Tan (skin color), brown (head, loin cloth & boots) Silver (Armor & 200X sword) & purple....now I think most people wouldn't even have cared if he was all molded tan (being the figure skin color) and the rest painted....armor & boots....etc, because none of that rubs, and armors and boots have been painted before. My Mo-Larr Skeletor has painted shin gaurds....I only noticed when I tried to fix his extremely
    loose ankles, and trying to carve some extra glue out of the ankle joint, I scratched the shin guard....oh, it's blue....no biggie, nothing more has come off of it, since I scratched it with my Xacto knife.

    To hell with the Black plastic unless the figure is black....Mekaneck should have been all dark blue & red....and they could have painted the boots, loin cloth, hands, head and the rest their appropriate colors....Skeletor should have been the blue molded, maybe red or purple, and everything else painted their colors....that would have been the same as the black plastic idea, but the figure itself would be entirely the appropriate color, therefore, no painted joints that chip and flake when moved.

    Mattel, Scott, Ruben...., listen up, and hear us very clearly....no one wants the figures painted like they are now, at all....the plastic could be poo brown instead of black, our reactions would be exactly the same as they are now....
    Black plastic is only the underlying issue, the main issue is, no more figures painted in their entirety, go back to painting the figures like you did prior to screwing us over at sub time.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; October 4, 2012 at 10:20pm.
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  22. #772
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamblo View Post
    I'm wondering if somebody was aware about black plastic during the 2013 subscription campaign!

    Yes, Ruben and his exalted Design Team knew about it since it was their call to help maximize profits by ripping us off. Scott was more than likely aware of this but he was in The Sky Is Falling campaign that was the 2013 Club Eternia subscription push. They all knew it would hurt sales and therefore withheld information about the newly cheapened(YET MORE EXPENSIVE!) product they were pushing.

    If the 2013 figures are almost entirely painted like these later 2012 figures, the sky can fall! We can thank Ruben, the Design Team and Scott for the 2014 Club Eternia failure.
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  23. #773
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Boy View Post
    One other issue about using black plastic is that it changes the colour of the paint on top of it. Dragon Blaster Skeletor looks very different to the other Skeletors and it's not just because they have used a different shade of blue. If that same shade of blue was painted on blue or white plastic it would look different again.
    Correct. And to compensate, you have to use more paint. When you use more paint, it takes longer to dry. It starts to run and glop up. And the spaces in between joints becomes even tighter. So the black plastic, while it may not directly cause the paint issue, starts off a chain of events that runs into many different bad places.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post

    Mattel, Scott, Ruben...., listen up, and hear us very clearly....no one wants the figures painted like they are now, at all....the plastic could be poo brown instead of black, our reactions would be exactly the same as they are now....
    Black plastic is only the underlying issue, the main issue is, no more figures painted in their entirety, go back to painting the figures like you did prior to screwing us over at sub time.
    Unfortunately a lot of fans don't seem to care about this, or any of the other multitude of issues. As long as they get the figures, they are gold.

    People don't even care that Castle Grayskull could come out this way. I posted a thread (which was deleted because I messed it up - not the mods) for people to sign if they would commit to not purchasing the Castle unless it was molded in the correct color. I think 5 people replied before it was deleted, all saying they didn't care what color the castle was molded in. Seriously? I don't see how people can fork over almost $300 without any assurance that we won't have these same issues. Mattel can say it's the paint all they way, but I don't beleive them. They have burned every bridge with me with their untruths and their incompetencies.

  24. #774
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    And most people don't really care about the color underneath, they care that the whole figure is being molded in a color unrelated to the figure
    Actually, now that I have several figures with the blastic, I do care about the base color. As I mentioned in another thread, the black. no matter how well painted, causes something of a shadow effect in the hinge joints, especially the elbows and knees. It makes the break in the joint stand out much more than we've seen before, and would not be as big a problem with a more neutral color, even white, even if the whole figure was painted. But, if we are right and this is recycled plastic, there's no choice but to dye it black (or else have a base color that is psychedelic), the worst possible choice for a base color on an action figure unless most of his body is, indeed, black.
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  25. #775
    Heroic Warrior Adam_Adamant's Avatar
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    Who's good at setting up Polls (I have no clue)? Perhaps one could be started asking the question "Is it a big deal for you if the majority of your figures are painted" with a clarification that this refers to what we are currently describing as the 'blastic issue', with the alternative being figures molded in the appropriate base color.

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