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Thread: Why is Mattel giving us black plastic and painting over it?

  1. #776
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    That would be a good poll.

    To me basically it's a big enough of a deal to make me stop collecting this line... helped out by the trashing of the Frosta figure (and I'm not talking about the reversed forearms)...

  2. #777
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuno View Post
    To me basically it's a big enough of a deal to make me stop collecting this line...
    You're in good company. I'm sure A LOT of fans, including myself are waiting to see IF "Blasticgate" comes to a conclusion before 2013 Club Eternia begins. Scott said it was still early enough to fix Dekker, so we'll see how that goes first.
    "Evilseed with his MYP redesign dominated the poll pulling ahead with a massive lead."

  3. #778
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    The fact that someone decided on black plastic pretty much tells you that Good Quality is not much of a priority in this line. Everything is beginning to sound like a con.

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    I can see paint on certain figures as hero and battle armor figures but not for complete arms and bodies. I will definitely be wary o fany new figures.

  5. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    The fact that someone decided on black plastic pretty much tells you that Good Quality is not much of a priority in this line. Everything is beginning to sound like a con.
    Let's remember to give credit where credit is due(Ruben and his Design Team) once these cost cutting measures(combined with increased prices!) chase the more discerning collectors away from Classics.
    "Evilseed with his MYP redesign dominated the poll pulling ahead with a massive lead."

  6. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Actually, now that I have several figures with the blastic, I do care about the base color. As I mentioned in another thread, the black. no matter how well painted, causes something of a shadow effect in the hinge joints, especially the elbows and knees. It makes the break in the joint stand out much more than we've seen before, and would not be as big a problem with a more neutral color, even white, even if the whole figure was painted. But, if we are right and this is recycled plastic, there's no choice but to dye it black (or else have a base color that is psychedelic), the worst possible choice for a base color on an action figure unless most of his body is, indeed, black.
    This is true, let me put it another way....the base color of the plastic is not the issue at hand, that most don't want....it's that the figures are entirely painted to begin with, if the figures weren't painted, there wouldn't be a base color issue to worry about, therefore, no one would be ****** except for the normal complaints....loose joints, and such....I would love to have only the loose joints to worry about, and have what quality we had prior to the painted chipping figures, and have the line back on it's direction....

    Wherever they stuck Terry, please put him back on MOTUC....give Ruben a broom, or a mail cart....the line has been ass with "design" decisions since his arrival....although I will give under Terry we have a Holed head She-Ra & Sorceress' large drums....but compared to purposely backwards forearms & entirely painted figures....I'll take the previous direction of Classics....previous to Ruben.
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  7. #782
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Did anyone get a good look at Granamyr during Powercon and noticed quite a colour difference on the old dragon's torso and limbs? The arms and the head appear to be much darker, while his body is much lighter because it seems to be cast in white plastic (Scott was kind enough to give us a peak when he broke the tail off)

    Not sure if this is already a product sample or still the prototype version but I'm not spending +70$ on a dragon with unevenly dyed skin.
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  8. #783
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    If that sample was the one at SDCC, then it was still an early proto and not actually cast from the right plastic. I remember him commenting about that during SDCC because the paint flaked off and you could see white underneath. I believe the sample at PowerCon was close to final and I didn't really notice any color discrepancy, myself.

  9. #784
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    If that sample was the one at SDCC, then it was still an early proto and not actually cast from the right plastic. I remember him commenting about that during SDCC because the paint flaked off and you could see white underneath. I believe the sample at PowerCon was close to final and I didn't really notice any color discrepancy, myself.
    I meant the one at Powercon, which you can see in Pixel Dan's walkthrough. The tail pops off around 1:40 and reveals the white plastic on the inside.


    The colour of his limbs are dark red, while the colour of his chest seems a reddish pink ... well, at least to my eyes. But I have only the videos and pictures to go on, hence the question.
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  10. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    I meant the one at Powercon, which you can see in Pixel Dan's walkthrough. The tail pops off around 1:40 and reveals the white plastic on the inside.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APEu...tailpage#t=66s

    The colour of his limbs are dark red, while the colour of his chest seems a reddish pink ... well, at least to my eyes. But I have only the videos and pictures to go on, hence the question.
    His chest is a different color like you noticed. But it looks to be on purpose to me. You can see that lighter shade of red extends up his throat, but in almost a striped pattern, and then fades to the darker red as it goes towards the back and arms. I actually think the variation looks nice, but it is hard to tell in this video.

  11. #786
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Wherever they stuck Terry, please put him back on MOTUC....give Ruben a broom, or a mail cart....the line has been ass with "design" decisions since his arrival....
    In regards to Ruben, truer words were never spoken! He has shown little passion for the property or the fans that have kept it alive for all these years. Either start putting some GENIUNE passion into his work by IMPROVING THE LINE, or get out of the way!

    Putting more emphasis on ways to make things cheaper instead of finding ways to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT is tantamount to failure.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 7, 2012 at 10:43pm.
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  12. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Wherever they stuck Terry, please put him back on MOTUC....give Ruben a broom, or a mail cart....the line has been ass with "design" decisions since his arrival....although I will give under Terry we have a Holed head She-Ra & Sorceress' large drums....but compared to purposely backwards forearms & entirely painted figures....I'll take the previous direction of Classics....previous to Ruben.
    I agree. I have issues with some of Terry's choices as well, but they were never as bad as the ones Ruben has made. Wasn't Ruben the "genius" behind that horrible 200X Kobra Kahn?

  13. #788
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    In regards to Ruben, truer words were never spoken! He has shown little passion for the property or the fans that have kept it alive for all these years. Either start putting some GENIUNE passion into his work by IMPROVING THE LINE, or get out of the way!
    Again, in fairness, we have no idea if the blastic was Rueben's idea, or it was something pushed by Mattel. I was looking at some of the stylized 6" Batman figure the other day, and I think some of those may employ the blastic, as well, and not the ones with actualy black parts. I looked into the peg holes on some of the semi-boxed ones, and a couple looked like the plastic was black within the holes (and a couple didn't). Mattel's problems are usually systemic, and we have no idea what dictates have come down from the grand poo-bahs to further cut costs. Pointing to one person ignores the likelyhood that much of what we are seeing here is simply a symptom of more widespread corner cutting throughout the company.

    In other words, I truly think we would be seeing the blastic regardless of who is charge of the design team.

    Most of the problems at Mattel are systemic; few are traceable to a single person. The design people may have had a choice between evils to cut costs at the command of the grand poo-bahs, and
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  14. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Again, in fairness, we have no idea if the blastic was Rueben's idea, or it was something pushed by Mattel. I was looking at some of the stylized 6" Batman figure the other day, and I think some of those may employ the blastic, as well, and not the ones with actualy black parts. I looked into the peg holes on some of the semi-boxed ones, and a couple looked like the plastic was black within the holes (and a couple didn't). Mattel's problems are usually systemic, and we have no idea what dictates have come down from the grand poo-bahs to further cut costs. Pointing to one person ignores the likelyhood that much of what we are seeing here is simply a symptom of more widespread corner cutting throughout the company.

    In other words, I truly think we would be seeing the blastic regardless of who is charge of the design team.

    Most of the problems at Mattel are systemic; few are traceable to a single person. The design people may have had a choice between evils to cut costs at the command of the grand poo-bahs, and
    Even if not, we can thank Ruben for the Stinkor incident....but as Scott says, and since he's passed it off as a "Design" choice....I would say that makes it fall on Ruben.
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  15. #790
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Except you make an assumption that has no foundation, namely that the black plastic being used now is the same as that which was used legitimately in the past. If indeed this is recycled plastic (and I've already gone through the logic behind that deduction), we're in new territory here. Different kinds of plastic are going to react differently to being painted; if the plastic is leeching something (think the white powder, only slimier), then that is going to affect how the paint adhere's to the surface. Point is, they said it was done as a cost saving manuever, so at the very least it has to be cheaper and likely of lesser quality (thus the conclusion it is likely recycled, something thay haven't refuted to my knowledge). When you change materials, especially if they are now cheaper materials, there are often consequences in the end product.
    Due respect to those who were offended by my incorrect comment that, "I guarantee you'll find black plastic underneath older figures (or something to that effect)", as you're right I never stripped the paint away to prove this theory. Sorry, I value them too highly for that! It can only be assumed (and Master Collector went into this in some detail) that other colors than the base color were used for various limb parts. The point I struggled at length to convey is that this choice of color other than the base did not appear to cause excessive rubbing in the past, especially at the all-important joints. I was attempting to lead the discussion towards the improper paint curing process as the true cause rather than black plastic, which if you ask me (and granted I realize no one has) is not the root issue.

    Many now hate the use of black plastic and I respect this and won't miss it if it's removed from the manufacturing process, but I can't in good conscience point to the use of this plastic as the root of all evil here. It's simply become the issue di jour'. Again, it's seemingly unrelated but has revealed a larger issue, that of the increased possibility of wear/tear on the paint when black plastic is used instead of simply molding in the appropriate color. I won't go into the why/why not or positives/negatives as there are others here much more invested/affected by this who I'm sure would be happy to elaborate, or probably have by the time I post this.

    And as to those decrying Mattel's assurances that this will get fixed... I absolutely can not combat pessimism or 'burn me once shame on me' perception. You will either choose to see the positives as they/if they come along or continue to cynically bash Mattel for every perceived slight. That's simply not a discussion I want to go into.
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  16. #791
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    His chest is a different color like you noticed. But it looks to be on purpose to me. You can see that lighter shade of red extends up his throat, but in almost a striped pattern, and then fades to the darker red as it goes towards the back and arms. I actually think the variation looks nice, but it is hard to tell in this video.
    You're right, it does appear to be only around the chest and to fade out along the throat, which probably makes it a deliberate design choice
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  17. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    You're right, it does appear to be only around the chest and to fade out along the throat, which probably makes it a deliberate design choice
    I've actually looked at it a few more times since i posted that and I like it less and less. I like that it fades and isn't one solid color, but the color changes abruptly where the shoulders meet the chest. I'm not liking that as much. In either case I'm not buying him anyways.

  18. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Again, in fairness, we have no idea if the blastic was Rueben's idea, or it was something pushed by Mattel. I was looking at some of the stylized 6" Batman figure the other day, and I think some of those may employ the blastic, as well, and not the ones with actualy black parts. I looked into the peg holes on some of the semi-boxed ones, and a couple looked like the plastic was black within the holes (and a couple didn't). Mattel's problems are usually systemic, and we have no idea what dictates have come down from the grand poo-bahs to further cut costs. Pointing to one person ignores the likelyhood that much of what we are seeing here is simply a symptom of more widespread corner cutting throughout the company.
    Yeah, I get were you're coming from but I base my statement on a post like this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Many methods will be used, but I did pass to design that fans would PREFER not to use black as a base color WHEN POSSIBLE. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU WON'T SEE BLACK, but I did pass along the suggestion.
    With that in mind, I'll continue to hold Ruben and "Design" accountable for the decision to cut cost by using black plastic.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 8, 2012 at 10:04pm.
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  19. #794
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    Yeah, I get were you're coming from but I base my statement on a post like this....



    With that in mind, I'll continue to hold Ruben and "Design" accountable for the decision to cut cost by using black plastic.
    Right. Why pass the preference of no blastic on to Ruben if it's not in his power to change it? And if he can change it now, then it would only make sense if it was his decision in the first place. If upper management decided to use blastic, there would be no point in passing it along to Ruben.

    But that is all assuming TG was telling the whole truth. I'm sure there is some degree of smoke and mirrors in his statement. And at the end of the day there's a fiasco brewing on everyone's desk at Matty HQ, so who cares how much a percent of this is Ruben's fault. I don't.

  20. #795
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    Right. Why pass the preference of no blastic on to Ruben if it's not in his power to change it? And if he can change it now, then it would only make sense if it was his decision in the first place. If upper management decided to use blastic, there would be no point in passing it along to Ruben.
    Yeah, I chose to go with deductive reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    But that is all assuming TG was telling the whole truth. I'm sure there is some degree of smoke and mirrors in his statement. And at the end of the day there's a fiasco brewing on everyone's desk at Matty HQ, so who cares how much a percent of this is Ruben's fault. I don't.
    True. Assuming ANYTHING TG says is 100% accurate after all of the contradictions and broken promises in the past is foolish. Fact is, they raised the prices and lowered the quality without letting us know before we were locked in for 2013 Club Eternia. Then, at the same time we hear that their profits are up in part because of cost cutting measures?

    If the Classics line is truly some type of "love letter" to the fans, why not do their best to improve quality control WITHOUT adding more problems like entirely painted, HIGHLY ARTICULATED action figures that chip after a few days of handling?

    For those that are ready to use that knee jerk "Toyguru said" response, let's hold off on that until we see the black(or any other inappropriate color) plastic disappear from the line. Supposedly, we complained enough for Dekker to avoid the "Blastic" issue. Let's wait and see before we believe it.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; October 8, 2012 at 10:55pm.
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  21. #796
    Heroic Warrior DJ Force's Avatar
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    I really didnīt follow this discussion, so I apologize if this has been stated before. But what I find most disturbing is that a TOY company - the same one that took great efforts to manufacture a highly articulated Moss-Man figure so the moss would not rub off at the joints and that didnīt flock a highly articulated Panthor because the flocking would rub off - is painting the limbs and joints of their highly articulated action figures now.
    In all honesty and with all due respect - I donīt care who made this decission, if it was upperst management, Ruben from design, or the janitor - but this person is SO wrong working at a toy company. Know your basics or get a different job that suits you better.
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  22. #797
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Force View Post
    I really didnīt follow this discussion, so I apologize if this has been stated before. But what I find most disturbing is that a TOY company - the same one that took great efforts to manufacture a highly articulated Moss-Man figure so the moss would not rub off at the joints and that didnīt flock a highly articulated Panthor because the flocking would rub off - is painting the limbs and joints of their highly articulated action figures now.
    In all honesty and with all due respect - I donīt care who made this decission, if it was upperst management, Ruben from design, or the janitor - but this person is SO wrong working at a toy company. Know your basics or get a different job that suits you better.
    You are right - whoever did it should have known better. It's their job. I'm an accountant and I just have to know that you multiply and divide BEFORE you add or subtract in an equation. I HAVE to know that or I can't do my job. It's a basic principle.

    Yes, this point has been brought up before, but if we go silently into the night with our complaints it's like giving Mattel a thumbs up. You have to stay vocal and in their face until you see the actual change you are asking for. Otherwise they just put us off with some fancy worded statement of intent and then don't follow through with the action.

  23. #798
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    With that in mind, I'll continue to hold Ruben and "Design" accountable for the decision to cut cost by using black plastic.
    Only problem with that is, the source has no credibility himself. It wouldn't be the first time TG deflected blame to someone else, and without hearing Ruben's version of the story, it seems wrong to lay all of the blame on noe person when we don't know what other factors are involved, or just how much truth there is in what's being said.

    Besides, focusing on one single person is not going to help when the problem may well be systemic throughout Mattel. Even if Ruben did make such a decision, I doubt it was out of the blue. It's far more likely, with the story we saw about Mattel making its shareholders happy by cutting corners, that there was pressure from above to do something to cut costs and fatten Mattel's collective wallet. THe blastic may have been the better option compared with other alternatives; we simply don't know enough here to point a finger at anything but Mattel in general.
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  24. #799
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    it seems wrong to lay all of the blame on one person when we don't know what other factors are involved, or just how much truth there is in what's being said.
    Very good point, Scott. Now if only this would help cease the constant cyber-harassment of those perceived to be in the wrong. And the greater issue in even harassing at all- in the end what difference will it make? Mattel hires/fires its own employees and if 20-40 pictures of black plastic rubbing off a toy aren't considered sufficient to cite a production fault (enough to warrant a recall or whatever SOP would be in this situation), why would a handful of online rants about Ruben's ineptitude change a damn thing? I get the reasoning and perhaps in some ways even support various arguments, but we aren't going to get this guy fired, moved to another department, or even impart a slap on the wrist, so why fight Capital Hill, if you will?

    But to your point Scott, you're right, we really should stop the blame game. Won't happen, but it's a nice thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Only problem with that is, the source has no credibility himself. It wouldn't be the first time TG deflected blame to someone else, and without hearing Ruben's version of the story, it seems wrong to lay all of the blame on noe person when we don't know what other factors are involved, or just how much truth there is in what's being said.

    Besides, focusing on one single person is not going to help when the problem may well be systemic throughout Mattel. Even if Ruben did make such a decision, I doubt it was out of the blue. It's far more likely, with the story we saw about Mattel making its shareholders happy by cutting corners, that there was pressure from above to do something to cut costs and fatten Mattel's collective wallet. THe blastic may have been the better option compared with other alternatives; we simply don't know enough here to point a finger at anything but Mattel in general.
    I blame both Scott & Ruben....
    Ruben is the head of design, and he makes the design decisions, Stinkor was one of them he made poorly....And guaranteed his hands are in the Blastic pot, just as much....
    Scott is the head of the whole damn line, therefore can trump design where MOTUC is concerned, also, he has to sign off on MOTUC based decisions before anything final is done.

    Hence the "Manager" part of his title....but even if Corporate told them to cut costs, both Ruben & Scott are responsible for doing so....and therefore the "design" decision would be his to make as to what to cut costs on....Scott would sign off on it after....they both knew, and Ruben of all people should have had the common sense to know better than to paint joints on an "Action Figure". But Stinkor shows, he basically had none there....so why would he now?
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