Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC News Thread August 2012

[tmc1984]

The problem with this statement is that TG already PROMISED us a 2014 line up that would basically finish off all major missing characters. Now he's back-pedaling. This is the kind of stuff that will ensure 2014 fails, and I can tell you, I will be the first to abandon the line come 2014 if he keeps this crap up. WE SAVED HIS ARSE, and now that he got what he wants, he's back to his old ways of "Well...I cant guarantee anything..."

BS. ToyGuru needs to go.

i don't think he can guarantee anything yet as it's probably not finalized - i have no doubt that we'll see a lot of vintage in 2014 ...

[He-Dude]

Wasn't there basically a promise if we MET 100% for the 2013 sub, we would see most if not all vintage heavy hitters finished in 2014? I'm sorry, but this sounds like a back pedal to me

By 2014 there won't be that many left.

[wundarwarrior]

I am not saying Scott broke promises, but I will say he should stop speaking without thinking ahead. During his videos he sais we would havr all the vintage by 14's end. Then it was the heavy hitters. Now it's we don't know. He said what he said to sell subs. That is a problem. His words were misleading and we interpretted them as meaning if we hit the minimum, not having to highly surpass that goal. Also, if October comes and there is no My Subscription page then he will officially have broken a promise. He just started camlaigning and politicking at the home stretch to hit his quota and did say things that could upset fans.

[MC Modulok]

So he's gone from claiming that we should have all vintage MOTU plus core FILMation, POP and NA by the end of 2014 (which would need to comprise at least 40 new toys from the unannounced half of the 2013 subscription plus 2014) to "Whether we can do 12 figures or just 6 remains to be seen."

[orbles]

Wasn't there basically a promise if we MET 100% for the 2013 sub, we would see most if not all vintage heavy hitters finished in 2014? I'm sorry, but this sounds like a back pedal to me

I totally agree. There is a major change in the attitude/tone of his comments when you compare pre sub closure and post sub closure. When he was promoting the sub it was all about how the roadmap was changed so that 2014 will "complete" the vintage figures, which was a stretch to begin with, then after the sub closed he is all about how we "barely" got by the bare minimum. This is total BS back pedalling in my opinion. I am really taken back by his comments now. How is 135% barely getting by? In what freaking world does a 35% overage count has barely going over? I guess it is too soon to care, 2013 is a lock and I will just enjoy it for everything it brings to my collection and I will worry about 2014 next year.

[JonWes]

First of all:

1.) He never made a promise. He said if 2014 happened they were looking at re-ordering things so it was all vintage. I think he might have said something about promising that 2014 would be all vintage and heavy hitters, but that doesn't say anything about how many there will be.

2.) He threw out a couple scenarios, but it's not like any of these are set in stone.

3.) It's actually sensible to try to manage expectations. Remember, we've been told again and again that he has to justify MOTUC's existence every year. The reason he can't make any promises about 2014 is that, no matter what he plans, MOTUC is renewed for another year entirely dependent on management. It could be 6. It could be 12. Maybe something different. It just depends on what he can sell them on.

I am hoping for at least 12 figures. If we sold the bare minimum, even, for this year with this much product, then the next logical step is just to cut the beasts and multi-packs from the sub (maybe offer some throughout the year) and go back to just 12 figures. If they went down to 6 in a sub, then the only way I'd understand that is if they offered 6 figures in another sub or planned 6 non-sub figures throughout the year.

I think the point of all of this is that there aren't any guarantees. Now, should that have been communicated more clearly during the sub run? Probably. I think sometimes he thinks because he's said this stuff in the past it's in all of our collective minds (about having to approve it every year) but these things don't always get out to everyone.

Also - remember, there is a movie coming out. Depending on the excitement level that generates it could make things BETTER for MOTUC. It's hard to say. There's a long time left to worry about this stuff.

[Dark Sorceress]

dark69

now that Illumina got Silver...

now that Illumina got Silver in the fan vote, can Mattel stop calling Illumina fan's the VERY small but loud minority? lol

TG

You can call her anything you want!

ummm ok.....did he read that before posting?

[Seril]

Yeah to me it sounds like just 12 figures which I'm cool with. Sure some multipacks could help fill in holes, but i'll take what we an get. The more the merrier

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

I am really taken back by his comments now. How is 135% barely getting by? In what freaking world does a 35% overage count has barely going over? I guess it is too soon to care, 2013 is a lock and I will just enjoy it for everything it brings to my collection and I will worry about 2014 next year.

Yeah, this kind of threw me for a loop too. 35% over is not that good? REALLY?? And it bothers me to no end that he keeps squeezing in the line about "135% over the BARE MINIMUM". So, is hitting 100% of the goal really tantamount to failure? Scott sure makes it sound that way....now...now that he has all our money.

Seriously, it's as if these last few weeks have taught him nothing. He keeps this up, I can guarantee you won't see 100% subscription rate in 2014, and I'll be first in line to jump ship. I've seriously had it with Scott and his empty promises and back-pedaling. I know I'm not the only one.

[tmc1984]

First of all:

1.) He never made a promise. He said if 2014 happened they were looking at re-ordering things so it was all vintage. I think he might have said something about promising that 2014 would be all vintage and heavy hitters, but that doesn't say anything about how many there will be.

2.) He threw out a couple scenarios, but it's not like any of these are set in stone.

3.) It's actually sensible to try to manage expectations. Remember, we've been told again and again that he has to justify MOTUC's existence every year. The reason he can't make any promises about 2014 is that, no matter what he plans, MOTUC is renewed for another year entirely dependent on management. It could be 6. It could be 12. Maybe something different. It just depends on what he can sell them on.

I am hoping for at least 12 figures. If we sold the bare minimum, even, for this year with this much product, then the next logical step is just to cut the beasts and multi-packs from the sub (maybe offer some throughout the year) and go back to just 12 figures. If they went down to 6 in a sub, then the only way I'd understand that is if they offered 6 figures in another sub or planned 6 non-sub figures throughout the year.

I think the point of all of this is that there aren't any guarantees. Now, should that have been communicated more clearly during the sub run? Probably. I think sometimes he thinks because he's said this stuff in the past it's in all of our collective minds (about having to approve it every year) but these things don't always get out to everyone.

Also - remember, there is a movie coming out. Depending on the excitement level that generates it could make things BETTER for MOTUC. It's hard to say. There's a long time left to worry about this stuff.

completely agree with all of the above ... nothing will be set in stone yet, hence why scott isn't throwing out 2014 details yet ...

it does become a bit tiresome hearing TG/scott get bashed at every opportunity ... what more can he possibly do? ...

[cbomb23]

Yeah, this kind of threw me for a loop too. 35% over is not that good? REALLY?? And it bothers me to no end that he keeps squeezing in the line about "135% over the BARE MINIMUM". So, is hitting 100% of the goal really tantamount to failure? Scott sure makes it sound that way....now...now that he has all our money.

Seriously, it's as if these last few weeks have taught him nothing. He keeps this up, I can guarantee you won't see 100% subscription rate in 2014, and I'll be first in line to jump ship. I've seriously had it with Scott and his empty promises and back-pedaling. I know I'm not the only one.

But 135% is still a decrease from 2012, and 2012 was a decrease from 2011. It's like people think he makes all these decisions on his own. He has to get the budget approved, and as the subscriptions decrease each year so does the budget/line for the following years. Everyone just needs to enjoy the rest of this year and the 1st half of next year, then at SDCC 2013 everyone can freak out again.

[nightcraw]

As someone had already point out at a different thread, 2012 sub is more than 200% of min. so even at 135% for 2013, that's still a 32% decrease (or 2/3 of 2012).
As for TG's "promises". They are just scenarios play out in his head. I have come to realize TG don't always had the finally says on MOTUC line. Character selections yes, but number figures produced or number of figure slots per year, not TG's call. TG make recommendation but his upper managements will agree or disagree.

[He-Kal]

2014 will be without doubt primarily vintage, as TG has said in one of the above quotes ... but how many we have left by then remains to be seen ... and he probably doesn't want to make any bold statements right now until they plan it out fully ...

Honestly though, is there any possible way we can get most if not all vintage heavy hitters in 2014 (as indicated we would be in previous Q+As if the 2013 sub was 100%) if the line is cut back to six figures (or less) next year? the only possible way that can happen is if we have a FULL (12 figures) year, and even then I think we will still be missing some characters

[tmc1984]

Honestly though, is there any possible way we can get most if not all vintage heavy hitters in 2014 (as indicated we would be in previous Q+As if the 2013 sub was 100%) if the line is cut back to six figures (or less) next year? the only possible way that can happen is if we have a FULL (12 figures) year, and even then I think we will still be missing some characters

i hear ya - but we also have a con-exclusive(s) and potential additions to the 'regular' subscription model ... the could do them all if they wanted i'm sure, and they'd all sell out! ...

[He-Kal]

First of all:

1.) He never made a promise. He said if 2014 happened they were looking at re-ordering things so it was all vintage. I think he might have said something about promising that 2014 would be all vintage and heavy hitters, but that doesn't say anything about how many there will be.

2.) He threw out a couple scenarios, but it's not like any of these are set in stone.

3.) It's actually sensible to try to manage expectations. Remember, we've been told again and again that he has to justify MOTUC's existence every year. The reason he can't make any promises about 2014 is that, no matter what he plans, MOTUC is renewed for another year entirely dependent on management. It could be 6. It could be 12. Maybe something different. It just depends on what he can sell them on.

I am hoping for at least 12 figures. If we sold the bare minimum, even, for this year with this much product, then the next logical step is just to cut the beasts and multi-packs from the sub (maybe offer some throughout the year) and go back to just 12 figures. If they went down to 6 in a sub, then the only way I'd understand that is if they offered 6 figures in another sub or planned 6 non-sub figures throughout the year.

I think the point of all of this is that there aren't any guarantees. Now, should that have been communicated more clearly during the sub run? Probably. I think sometimes he thinks because he's said this stuff in the past it's in all of our collective minds (about having to approve it every year) but these things don't always get out to everyone.

Also - remember, there is a movie coming out. Depending on the excitement level that generates it could make things BETTER for MOTUC. It's hard to say. There's a long time left to worry about this stuff.

Well, perhaps it was not a"promise" but we were DEFINETLY given the impression 2014 sub was going to be an awesome year for vintage heavy hitters and I'm sure I even read the statement that we would feel our collection would be complete or close to it. That's not going to be easy to do with 4-6 figures in one year--heck that would EVEN be hard with 12. I know TG is not the ultimate say in what is decisioned for this line (and I dont think he was lying and I TOTALLY apologize if I gave that impression) with what he maybe knew at the time i'm not angry with him over this, but sometimes the statements that are given set up a much more positive impression for fans that may not be actually met. I'm fairly sure many ppl just jumped on ship for the 2013 sub just in the hope that we could see our vintage wants fulfilled in 2014, but now it seems like this was not completely correct--which is very dissapointing and jading honestly.

[Stygian360]

I totally agree. There is a major change in the attitude/tone of his comments when you compare pre sub closure and post sub closure. When he was promoting the sub it was all about how the roadmap was changed so that 2014 will "complete" the vintage figures, which was a stretch to begin with, then after the sub closed he is all about how we "barely" got by the bare minimum. This is total BS back pedalling in my opinion. I am really taken back by his comments now. How is 135% barely getting by? In what freaking world does a 35% overage count has barely going over? I guess it is too soon to care, 2013 is a lock and I will just enjoy it for everything it brings to my collection and I will worry about 2014 next year.

Let's just say this. No one would ever accuse Scott of being a great PR person!!

Personally, I don't feel lied to. Based on his previous comments about how planning for future lines is concerned it all depends on the current sub sales as to how the dollars will be allocated for the succeeding year. In this situation sub sales were significantly lower than 2012's sub, which was lower than 2011's sub and so on. So, if you consider that even 135% is on the low side when placed next to historical sales 2014 may in fact be the most enemic year yet. Easy peezy, right?

I really do think Scott- being the true MOTU fan and fan advocate that I trust him to be- will do his best to get us an awesome 2014. Of course how much we get will depend entirely on how management views sales for 2013, and based on what Scott's saying selling mngt on a year even as robust as 2013 for the lineup in 2014 will be a struggle. The problem being precedent. In other words, if we just hadn't sold so damn many MOTUC figures early in the lines inception mngt would have nothing to compare to!!

But 135% is still a decrease from 2012, and 2012 was a decrease from 2011. It's like people think he makes all these decisions on his own. He has to get the budget approved, and as the subscriptions decrease each year so does the budget/line for the following years. Everyone just needs to enjoy the rest of this year and the 1st half of next year, then at SDCC 2013 everyone can freak out again.

This outlines my thoughts very well ^

[MegaGearMax]

Wasn't there basically a promise if we MET 100% for the 2013 sub, we would see most if not all vintage heavy hitters finished in 2014? I'm sorry, but this sounds like a back pedal to me

It's not a back pedal. 2014 probably will have all vintage characters in it. The number of figures is what's in question.

[KingRandor82]

Yeah, this kind of threw me for a loop too. 35% over is not that good? REALLY?? And it bothers me to no end that he keeps squeezing in the line about "135% over the BARE MINIMUM". So, is hitting 100% of the goal really tantamount to failure? Scott sure makes it sound that way....now...now that he has all our money.

Seriously, it's as if these last few weeks have taught him nothing. He keeps this up, I can guarantee you won't see 100% subscription rate in 2014, and I'll be first in line to jump ship. I've seriously had it with Scott and his empty promises and back-pedaling. I know I'm not the only one.

I was.....never under the impression that just over 35% of the bare minimum was all that great; in fact I was finding it disheartening alone if we'd just barely hit the bare minimum. I'm thankful we hit more, but a mere 35% over that still isn't good. It's a massive drop-off from even last year.

Y'know, the minute Ram Man got announced at Comic Con, my first thought was "uh-oh....I fear the worst for the line's future, now"

[bcrduke]

It's not a back pedal. 2014 probably will have all vintage characters in it. The number of figures is what's in question.

If by "Vintage" you mean vintage characters from MOTU, POP, and NA, with a couple of A-List Filmaton characters thrown in, I'd say you were correct.

If you are saying just vintage motu, I'd say that's unlikely.

Flogg
Hydron
Crita
Glimmer
Angella
Mermista
Scorpia
Icer
Strong-Arm
Lizard Man
Modulok
Mantenna
Tung Lashor

These are all figures that should show up in 2014, if not sooner.

I expect other A/B listers to show up in 2013.

[Sword2Blanket]

1.) He never made a promise. He said if 2014 happened they were looking at re-ordering things so it was all vintage. I think he might have said something about promising that 2014 would be all vintage and heavy hitters, but that doesn't say anything about how many there will be.

2.) He threw out a couple scenarios, but it's not like any of these are set in stone.

As for TG's "promises". They are just scenarios play out in his head.

completely agree with all of the above ... nothing will be set in stone yet, hence why scott isn't throwing out 2014 details yet ...

I got much respect for ya Jon, but I gotta say, I felt like I was taking crazy pills after reading some of these comments. I'm going to listen to RGD 94 again on the way home, but I don't feel like I remember it that wrong. Sure, he didn't say "I pinky promise [this], [this], and [this] will get made", but I thought he laid out a reasonably specific outlook for 2014. And I don't recall there being any kind of stipulation that it required a 400% increase in the current (at the time) subs sales or anything of the kind. You guys make it sound like Scott was just spitballing.

3.) It's actually sensible to try to manage expectations.

I agree. I think most of us automatically went into expectation management mode when Scott started with the 2014 promises. Finish vintage + major filmation, Pop, and NA. Ok, that's on the order of 40 figures so that's obviously malarky. Let's knock that down about 50% to a "not crazy" level...20. That seems reasonable. But now it sounds like Scott (on Mattel's behalf) is already trying to weasel the sub number down below twelve. So we may be looking at about half of what reasonable people expected and about a quarter of what he actually indicated.

I think the point of all of this is that there aren't any guarantees. Now, should that have been communicated more clearly during the sub run? Probably. I think sometimes he thinks because he's said this stuff in the past it's in all of our collective minds (about having to approve it every year) but these things don't always get out to everyone.

It's true that there are no guarantees and I think we're all aware of this. However, I think Scott is aware of the ballpark area of what is and isn't possible within this line and he should keep his claims within that realm. I don't think "there are no guarantees" is a valid excuse for him to perpetually spout cockamamie nonsense and not be held accountable for it.

[MegaGearMax]

A host of new answers are up now.

[He-Kal]

It's not a back pedal. 2014 probably will have all vintage characters in it. The number of figures is what's in question.

How can we expect that with a cut back line though of only 4-6 figures(even 12 is a stretch) and expect to get most if not all of the heavy hitters in before the line is gone? I just REALLY do not see how that is possible considering youre trying to cater to Motu AND Pop?

[RyDell]

REFOCUS!!!! let's all enjoy the rest of 2012 and all of 2013. Who knows what there will even be to release in 2014? We have 1.5 YEARS of cool stuff coming our way. If everything sells out for 2013, including these "add ons" I am certain 2014 will be fine. Chill compadres, we have so much positive to focus on!

[He-Kal]

Let's just say this. No one would ever accuse Scott of being a great PR person!!

Personally, I don't feel lied to. Based on his previous comments about how planning for future lines is concerned it all depends on the current sub sales as to how the dollars will be allocated for the succeeding year. In this situation sub sales were significantly lower than 2012's sub, which was lower than 2011's sub and so on. So, if you consider that even 135% is on the low side when placed next to historical sales 2014 may in fact be the most enemic year yet. Easy peezy, right?

I really do think Scott- being the true MOTU fan and fan advocate that I trust him to be- will do his best to get us an awesome 2014. Of course how much we get will depend entirely on how management views sales for 2013, and based on what Scott's saying selling mngt on a year even as robust as 2013 for the lineup in 2014 will be a struggle. The problem being precedent. In other words, if we just hadn't sold so damn many MOTUC figures early in the lines inception mngt would have nothing to compare to!!



This outlines my thoughts very well ^

I do agree with you, and I appreciate what TG has done for this line and do think he works to get ALOT for this line from mgmt that we would probably have not received otherwise. I guess I'm just a little perplexed by the tone of what 2014 was being presented to us pre-sub mania versus post sub mania and it has me a little concerned.

[JonWes]

Well, perhaps it was not a"promise" but we were DEFINETLY given the impression 2014 sub was going to be an awesome year for vintage heavy hitters and I'm sure I even read the statement that we would feel our collection would be complete or close to it.

I got much respect for ya Jon, but I gotta say, I felt like I was taking crazy pills after reading some of these comments. I'm going to listen to RGD 94 again on the way home, but I don't feel like I remember it that wrong. Sure, he didn't say "I pinky promise [this], [this], and [this] will get made", but I thought he laid out a reasonably specific outlook for 2014. And I don't recall there being any kind of stipulation that it required a 400% increase in the current (at the time) subs sales or anything of the kind. You guys make it sound like Scott was just spitballing.

I should probably have quoted the specific post I was responding too. But someone was saying promise and I was specifically saying it wasn't a promise. That's my only real point with some of it. There's a big difference between laying out a plan and making a promise. The best laid plans of mice and men and all that.

Now, I totally agree it did sound like he had a very specific plan and that's what he said. I think the part that was missing was him saying very specifically "But remember, this is a plan. Just like every other year but the current calendar year nothing is guaranteed." I agree (as I said) that this would have been good to reiterate. That's why I said he may have just thought that was a given because he said it so many times before. But there are new people who come to the board, people who don't read everything and people who just plain forget. So it would have been good to reiterate.

I agree. I think most of us automatically went into expectation management mode when Scott started with the 2014 promises. Finish vintage + major filmation, Pop, and NA. Ok, that's on the order of 40 figures so that's obviously malarky. Let's knock that down about 50% to a "not crazy" level...20. That seems reasonable. But now it sounds like Scott (on Mattel's behalf) is already trying to weasel the sub number down below twelve. So we may be looking at about half of what reasonable people expected and about a quarter of what he actually indicated.

I know that's distressing, and I think people should say that's distressing. But... well, look at it this way. There has been A LOT of talk on here and other boards about the fact that cost was a huge factor and the economy really impacted subs. I think with all that talk that maybe cutting the basic sub back to 6 might seem an attractive option. I think it's up to us as the customer to make it clear it is NOT an attractive option, for sure. But we do have a long way to go! My guess is the biggest way we'll send a message to Mattel the people still want lots of characters is for fast sell-outs day of.

I guess I just see this from a business perspective, thinking of the way things work where I work. If I had to sell a 12-figure sub, I'd say "Look, subs were down but there's a HUGE demand still here. Day of sales happen in minutes and the after market prices are high. People still want these figures." But, I have no way of knowing if that's going to actually happen. It might not. Day of sales could slow if people really start to abandon the line. After market prices could tank if people abandon their collections. So in that case I feel confident I can get at LEAST 6 figures to market. So that's my new low benchmark, even if I'm hoping for something much higher.

It's true that there are no guarantees and I think we're all aware of this. However, I think Scott is aware of the ballpark area of what is and isn't possible within this line and he should keep his claims within that realm. I don't think "there are no guarantees" is a valid excuse for him to perpetually spout cockamamie nonsense and not be held accountable for it.

Yes, but if there are no guarantees and we're all aware of this, then we should know that anything he says is subject to change. If that's the case, then it's more about what's going on in our fevered fan brains than what he's saying. But as I said above, I do think he probably could have been more careful in his phrasing or made sure he added disclaimers here or there because it's not really a fair expectation, probably, for all fans to be aware of the backstage realities of making these toys. I wish I didn't know some of what i do, sometimes, personally! LOL. From my own perspective, I have a good amount of tolerance for this to a certain extent. At the end of the day, we're all human. I'm not saying that's the way others have to think. I understand if some are fed up. It's just where I am at personally with it.