Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC News Thread August 2012

[NastyNate]

If by "Vintage" you mean vintage characters from MOTU, POP, and NA, with a couple of A-List Filmaton characters thrown in, I'd say you were correct.

If you are saying just vintage motu, I'd say that's unlikely.

Flogg
Hydron
Crita
Glimmer
Angella
Mermista
Scorpia
Icer
Strong-Arm
Lizard Man
Modulok
Mantenna
Tung Lashor

These are all figures that should show up in 2014, if not sooner.

I expect other A/B listers to show up in 2013.

Lots of Heavy Hitters missing from your 2014 list sir. Would be pretty sweet to see them show up in 2013

[Eternian Poet]

"now that Illumina got Silver in the fan vote, can Mattel stop calling Illumina fan's the VERY small but loud minority? lol

You can call her anything you want! "

[MegaGearMax]

How can we expect that with a cut back line though of only 4-6 figures(even 12 is a stretch) and expect to get most if not all of the heavy hitters in before the line is gone? I just REALLY do not see how that is possible considering youre trying to cater to Motu AND Pop?

It means it'll take a little longer, but the line will still focus on essential characters. Instead of 12 characters you might get 6. Toyguru can only use what he is given.

[Scorpia]

So when they say vintage only in 2014 does that mean no Filmation or POP? Maybe Filmation/POP will get it's own sub, since POP figures are going with the Filmation style anyway?

A Filmation POP sub would be AMAZING! Can you imagine:

Scorpia
Glimmer
Octavia
Mermista
Madame Razz and Broom
Peekablue

It'd steal the show! And I'd buy multiples of all

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Agreed. Figures are the priority now. Other ancillary items like vehicles, beasts, giants, weapons packs, figure stands, etc, are not of importance in my opinion. I would definitely support replacing "extra" slots in the subscription to two/multi packs that help finish the line.

Hear hear, the man speaks sense. At this stage - with the line in disarray and potentially being cancelled - all the resources should be put into figures. I wonder what this extra surprise TG has lined up - if it's a vehicle I'll be sorely disappointed and will ask: haven't they learned their lesson?

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Getting a Wind Raider this weekend. Sounds like they can hardly sell them.

Wow, really? This concerns me. The Wind Raiders aren't selling and it was the most requested vehicle in the line? They had to bring it back for a second run because the first wasn't a success? And all this with a vehicle you can army build?

Can't really do that with the other vehicles - well, maybe the Roton, but that's not as popular is it?

[mk476]

With so many great POP and NA characters left I agree with some of the other comments that I'd personally have no problem with the larger skus going away so we can still get (bare bones minimum) at least 16 figures per year.

[Scorpia]

I also read somewhere that 2012 was a peak year. Wasn't 2011 the peak year?

They peaked with Shadow Weaver, IMO. It went downhill from there.

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DCIE didn'y even hit 100% last year, and they went ahead, AND there are 12 slots for 2013. So why is there a different standard for MOTUC, which actually costs Mattel less because of the reuse of parts and the fact that they don't have to pay for a license?

There are LOADS of characters from Filmation that can use the standard male bucks though - just because we're down to lots of unique tools from the vintage MOTU line doesn't mean we have to say goodbye to the furry underwear. Batros, Icer, Vultak and King Tamusk to name but a few...

[marndt8448]

The Wind Raiders aren't selling and it was the most requested vehicle in the line? They had to bring it back for a second run because the first wasn't a success? And all this with a vehicle you can army build?

Can't really do that with the other vehicles - well, maybe the Roton, but that's not as popular is it?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but hasn't the Battle Ram been the most requested vehicle?
....and people would definitley army build it, just for the sky sled front-half alone, no?

[Scorpia]

Am the only really miffed about this?

I really, truly, am. I feel suckered!

I wanna know when do we find out if its gonna be 6 or 12 or 7, 8, 9 10 *** ever.

I have a feeling we'll have to wait a whole year to find the answer to that, my friend.

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No more three pack... guess we'll never see the three Rock People complete...

How come we got the Fighting Foe Guys but no Rock People 3 pack? So disappointing...

Agreed - I really want to see Granita. If they can do the outer rock layers as snap-on parts it could work, allowing Mattel to use existing parts of the male and female bucks. But I'm not holding out any hope... Rokkon and Stonedar maybe, but Granita - despite being FRICKIN' AWESOME! - is probably a no-no...

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He said (Ok I'm paraphrasing here) they would promise to try to get through all the vintage, important POP & NA by the end of 2014. People need to remember it's not all up to Scott he has to have approvals to get this stuff done. With the dramatic drop in subscriptions even from 2012 to next year, it's been a drop from 2011 on. Mattel's confidence in the line will continue to drop. I would like at least 12-16 figures next year also, but I'd rather have 6 than none. Also a 6 figure subscription would probably do extremely well as most everyone should be able to afford it.

Yes. I'd like to see them change things up a bit - a six-figure sub featuring vintage MOTU (including Filmation) and six-figure sub featuring POP (including Filmation).

The core NA characters could still be released as part of a box set or something...

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Plundor is not "highly demanded." That phrase gets thrown around way too much.

Totally agree. Mantenna is 'highly demanded'. Glimmer is 'highly demanded'. Plundor is not, just as the Fighting Foe Men weren't and the Wind Raider pilot isn't.

A highly-demanded figure should sell a sub, not divide a community, IMO.

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If they take the quarterly slots out, they will automatically be reducing the price of the sub by $180. That's pretty significant and coupled with a strong lineup, I would think they would be able to get the minimum number of subscribers for a 12 figure sub in 2014.

Yep. It will be smaller. People are afraid the sky's going to fall on their heads, but removing the quarterly items wouldn't be the end of the world. Removing them could encourage Mattel to think more creatively about releasing real demanded characters in other ways - they want out money, remember!

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it does become a bit tiresome hearing TG/scott get bashed at every opportunity ... what more can he possibly do? ...

I've got an idea Tomski - how about 'engage brain - speak'!

[Sword2Blanket]

Yes, but if there are no guarantees and we're all aware of this, then we should know that anything he says is subject to change. If that's the case, then it's more about what's going on in our fevered fan brains than what he's saying. But as I said above, I do think he probably could have been more careful in his phrasing or made sure he added disclaimers here or there because it's not really a fair expectation, probably, for all fans to be aware of the backstage realities of making these toys. I wish I didn't know some of what i do, sometimes, personally! LOL. From my own perspective, I have a good amount of tolerance for this to a certain extent. At the end of the day, we're all human. I'm not saying that's the way others have to think. I understand if some are fed up. It's just where I am at personally with it.

I think all of what you said is totally reasonable, Jon. I guess my main complaint is that there needs to be reasonable limits on the "subject to change" mindset if they hope to maintain any kind of goodwill. If you indicate ~20 characters, and then we end up with say 15. Ok, fine. That's reasonable. If you indicate ~12 and we end up with 10. Ok fine. If you insinuate some incredible number, sell your subscriptions, then say "wait, I meant 6", that's just a bait and switch whether there was a disclaimer or not.

As far as the attractiveness of a 6 figure sub: I can understand that may be a valid theory to Mattel. However, it seems to me that the time that it would have been MOST attractive was the very same time Scott was going in the extreme opposite direction. If that was a realistic possibility, I think it would have been good to at least mention it at the time.

It's always good to have rational discussion. Thanks Jon.

[Dark Sorceress]

"now that Illumina got Silver in the fan vote, can Mattel stop calling Illumina fan's the VERY small but loud minority? lol

You can call her anything you want! "

ya....i don't get that lol did he read the Q?

[MegaGearMax]

Plundor is not "highly demanded." That phrase gets thrown around way too much. I don't believe for one minute that there are a dozen fans that want him for every one that doesn't. There are a lot of people outside He-man.org that probably collect this line that have no idea who Plundor is and no desire to pay $25+ for him.

I think "Highly demanded" is used by Mattel to indicate that there was a pretty loud campaign for the figure, not that there must be a unanimous agreement by most fans that they must have them in the line. A definite example of this is Illumina, who is highly demanded to the point where some fans are sick of the campaign. I'm not a Geldor fan, but he usually topped mini-comic lists along with Lodar. A head pack or 200X heads has been highly demanded for years.

[Stygian360]

Similar to how Mattel was willing to subcontract the MOTU Stactions through NECA, I'm curious if they'd be willing to subcontract the design/labor/costs/risks to the Four Horsemen through their own studio to create MOTUC vehicles? After all didn't they create the Battle Ram entirely on spec? Why not take that an extra step and actually produce it as a toy, but do so either through a shared risk model (between the Horseman and Mattel) or fully through The Horsemen or another similarly willing to play nice company?

[MegaGearMax]

I've added some more new answers to the front.

[Mern-Ra]

Similar to how Mattel was willing to subcontract the MOTU Stactions through NECA, I'm curious if they'd be willing to subcontract the design/labor/costs/risks to the Four Horsemen through their own studio to create MOTUC vehicles? After all didn't they create the Battle Ram entirely on spec? Why not take that an extra step and actually produce it as a toy, but do so either through a shared risk model (between the Horseman and Mattel) or fully through The Horsemen or another similarly willing to play nice company?

Since The Four Horsemen are toy makers themselves, I'm guessing they do more of the design work in their sculpting stage than most toy sculptors do, so I imagine the design work needed after they turn in a prototype is minimal. (Though that's just speculation and I can't say for sure...but it seems like reasonable speculation, imho.)

[Firefly]

If it is just 12 figures monthly figures next year, I am fine with that. You could have an oversized figure or two taking up a regular monthy slot if they go that route.

[jibernish]

I really hope Ninjor and Jitsu are not related. Jitsu is Eternian and Ninjor is from another dimension. And I know the vintage ones did but I hope they don't have the same head sculpt.

The Plundor Filmation episode is actually one of my favourite episodes and I'm open to a figure of him further down the line but there's at least 10 other Filmation characters I'd want before him. If they do do him he need to heavily Classicized IMO (more then Fang Man) so he doesn't look too cartoony.

Scrollos for the next Traveling Exclusive!

Hopefully we stand more of a chance of getting Illumina now as well

I think Spector went back in time, cloned Jitsu (creating Ninjor) and then sent him to another dimension just for fun.

[Stygian360]

Since The Four Horsemen are toy makers themselves, I'm guessing they do more of the design work in their sculpting stage than most toy sculptors do, so I imagine the design work needed after they turn in a prototype is minimal. (Though that's just speculation and I can't say for sure...but it seems like reasonable speculation, imho.)

Granted, but the amount of design work they do is immaterial. I'm more concerned with the implied risk that Mattel ISN'T willing to take on producing further vehicles and how to make it so that we still get vehicles perhaps through another company more willing to take such risks. I know the Horsemen are uber busy already between the Mattel work they do and their own projects, but guys... we gotta get that Battle Ram somehow! I'm just thinking that if the Horsemen would be willing to produce (based on pre-orders of course) then we get vehicles and Mattel itself doesn't have to assume all risks. Again, I think a shared risk/shared profit model is best, but I'd leave that to the lawyers to hash out. I just want vehicles and since Mattel (via TG) have already stated their done... what other options are out there?

[Daniel Lynch]

35% over the bare min is still tiny.

In 2011 and 2012 we were more then double the bare min. We had over a 50% drop from 2012 to 2013 numbers. Although we "saved the line" we did so with just a smidge above the bare min to do so.

Tossing some numbers into the equations presented here:

Minimum Quota - 10000 Units
"Smidge" - 3500 Units
2013 Sub Sell-Through - 13500 Units
2012 Sub Sell-Through - 27000+ Units

Minimum Quota - 7500 Units
"Smidge" - 2625 Units
2013 Sub Sell-Through - 10125 Units
2012 Sub Sell-Through - 20000+ Units

Minimum Quota - 5000 Units
"Smidge" - 1750 Units
2013 Sub Sell-Through - 6750 Units
2012 Sub Sell-Through - 13500+ Units

Looks like we either have to accept that Mattel lost thousands upon thousands of subscribers this year or has been selling far fewer units than we've previously thought.

There is some wiggle room on what the "minimum" is as that likely changes every year in regards to the amount of tooling. We won't know until next SDCC how much more tooling the 4 reduced skus bought us for 2013 though.

[jibernish]

Yeah, this kind of threw me for a loop too. 35% over is not that good? REALLY?? And it bothers me to no end that he keeps squeezing in the line about "135% over the BARE MINIMUM". So, is hitting 100% of the goal really tantamount to failure? Scott sure makes it sound that way....now...now that he has all our money.

Seriously, it's as if these last few weeks have taught him nothing. He keeps this up, I can guarantee you won't see 100% subscription rate in 2014, and I'll be first in line to jump ship. I've seriously had it with Scott and his empty promises and back-pedaling. I know I'm not the only one.

If you jump ship, 1/3 of last years subbers will be in the water waiting for you.

This isn't a good start to the year. The voting fiasco where clear cut statements were not honored, and this, where the statements weren't clear cut, but have drastically changed tone from pre 8/6 to post 8/6. Whether or not you feel he lied, his words were crafted to elicit a positive response from us last week, and now this week they are going in the opposite direction.

I guess it all depends on what the meaning of the word IS is. It's all just about hiding behind words and turning them to your advantage without regard for intent. With Mattel, you really do have to look at intent and past history because the words given out are pretty much useless. They can't even honor 8/8 voting deadline.

[uaxuctum]

Wow, really? This concerns me. The Wind Raiders aren't selling and it was the most requested vehicle in the line? They had to bring it back for a second run because the first wasn't a success? And all this with a vehicle you can army build?

Can't really do that with the other vehicles - well, maybe the Roton, but that's not as popular is it?

What are you talking about? The most requested vehicle is the Battle Ram, and specifically it's front part, the Sky Sled. The Wind Raider is hardly an "army builder" vehicle; it's relatively big, and you'll have a hard time finding more than one of it appearing at the same time in the cartoon. If there's an "army builder" vehicle, that's clearly and unmistakably the Sky Sled/War Sled: a relatively small "multipurpose" hoverbike rode by virtually everyone in the cartoon all the time and portrayed numerous times in army-like formations. Many fans have stated once and over again they're eagerly looking forward to get multiples of these.

The Four Horsemen truthfully made a masterpiece out of the Wind Raider, which I personally can't get tired of contemplating. But it would be totally delusional to expect a significant amount of customers to buy more than a single unit of it (I'm a rare exception: have bought two for myself, and plan on budgeting for another two during the following months to give away). Many haven't yet bought it, or won't buy it, for any of several reasons, such as space constraints and poor sales timing (Christmas-time and SDCC-time are both chock-full of other stuff to overtake people's priorities); hopefully, it's new status as an "Essentials" evergreen will help with its sales. But had they included it in the subscription (instead of, for example, the more expensive Star Sisters), they wouldn't have had any problem meeting quota, and I bet my bottom dollar many subscribers would have been much more happy with it at the end of the day than they were with the Star Sisters (seriously, people truly need to see it in person to fully realize how awesome this thing is).

Looks like we either have to accept that Mattel lost thousands upon thousands of subscribers this year or has been selling far fewer units than we've previously thought.

Not necessarily thousands upon thousands of individual customers; you just need a relatively few but key resellers to significantly reduce their overall purchases to see the bottom numbers plummet (e.g., BBTS reduced their subs by something like 33%). Fewer than a hundred wholesale buyers in the 20-to-100-subs-each range easily make for half of the total number of subscriptions.

[MegaGearMax]

More new answers. Looks like Stridor and Meteorbs are goners.

[zodak74]

His answer to the big beast question actually makes me wonder if I'll be happier with MOTUC going forward than I was in 2012.

"The original road map had 4 "Beast/Oversized slots" each year. Now that was are moving away from this it is unclear how many more beast we will be able to do. Some of them are easy like Battle Lion, others like Stridor would be a full tool. And while we could use Stridor for Nightstalker, honeslty with as few skus as we will get in 2014 I'd rather use fully tool'd slots for figures like Horde Troopers, Gwildor, Mantenna, Modulok and the like. Every slot is that much more precious now."

Here here! To me it means less dilly-dallying around and more getting down to serious business. I am hoping now that it's crunch time, we see some of the figures he listed at the end. It also gives me a bit of renewed hope for figures that AREN'T 100% newly tooled. Double Trouble, Entrapta, Ninjor, Shokoti, Sea Hawk, Octavia, Icer, Batros... a lot of really cool characters that might be cheap off-sets to figures like Modulok, Horde Troopers, Mantenna, etc.
If they do carry on with some beasts, I would still love for Catra to get either Storm or Clawdeen. But the way things were going before with this line, ToyGuru would likely have put in Crystal Moonbeam in the roadmap before Storm... or Arrow, even. Now that the end is near, the holding the more highly demanded stuff back and preceding it with some of the not-so-hot stuff feels like it's backfired a bit. I've no interest in Battle Lion but really wanted both Nightstalker and Stridor. Still, I will take Mantenna and Rokkon before any of the aforementioned beasts. Here's hoping they happen!

[jibernish]

Yes, but if there are no guarantees and we're all aware of this, then we should know that anything he says is subject to change. If that's the case, then it's more about what's going on in our fevered fan brains than what he's saying.

That's a very good point. So many of us were going off our hearts rather than our logical brains here. We were in crisis mode, life or death (of the line). We wanted to believe so badly that many of us overlooked a clear, long, and distinct history of Mattel failing to live up to their words. It can be different this time, we felt.

Luckily for me, I'm by nature a cynical person and my head won out over my heart. I wanted to buy more than I originally wanted, and still sat by with my finger on the buy button Tuesday morning. But in the end, I bought exactly the amount that I wanted.

But I feel bad for those who now feel swindled, and I fear that number will grow. I wish I could believe in Mattel, but I have a business degree, I've worked in corporations my whole adult life, and I pay attention to the news. You just can't believe what organizations tell you. They have their own agenda, and that agenda is aided by making us believe them. Mattel is just trying to make a profit, right? They aren't in business to make our dreams come true. THat is a happy side effect that sometimes happens

[MegaGearMax]

His answer to the big beast question actually makes me wonder if I'll be happier with MOTUC going forward than I was in 2012.

"The original road map had 4 "Beast/Oversized slots" each year. Now that was are moving away from this it is unclear how many more beast we will be able to do. Some of them are easy like Battle Lion, others like Stridor would be a full tool. And while we could use Stridor for Nightstalker, honeslty with as few skus as we will get in 2014 I'd rather use fully tool'd slots for figures like Horde Troopers, Gwildor, Mantenna, Modulok and the like. Every slot is that much more precious now."

Here here! To me it means less dilly-dallying around and more getting down to serious business. I am hoping now that it's crunch time, we see some of the figures he listed at the end. It also gives me a bit of renewed hope for figures that AREN'T 100% newly tooled. Double Trouble, Entrapta, Ninjor, Shokoti, Sea Hawk, Octavia, Icer, Batros... a lot of really cool characters that might be cheap off-sets to figures like Modulok, Horde Troopers, Mantenna, etc.

I would say after all of the most wanted figures come out, the fans will be relaxed enough to accept more less wanted characters, beasts and vehicles. I hope the movie news makes Mattel decide to pump some money into the brand.

[SCB]

Any chance Stridor snuck into the 2013 line up?