I agree.Originally Posted by Ben Solstice-Moon
Cool checklist:
http://pages.suddenlink.net/soundwav...checklist.html
I'm guessing that by the point in time when King He-Man comes about, Adam has grown up a little - physically and in maturity - to the point that he and He-Man are finally one and the same in their being and changing back and forth is unnecessary. Those in his inner circle probably still refer to him as Adam or King Adam, while to the general Eternian public, he's more popularly known as King He-Man.
Teela... depends on if she's a sorceress or not. If she has the responsiblity of grayskull... she'd probably get over it pretty quick. If not?!? Then YEAH... she's gonna be REALLY angry. Serious breach of trust there.
Randor would do cartwheels. Finding out that the slacker son that you hoped to raise right.... is actually the greatest hero of them all?!? Ohhh yeah, He's a happy king!
Skeletor... Oohhh.. THere will be screams... Swearing... and probably kill everyone of his henchmen who ever let 'Adam' escape their dungeon while waiting for He-man to show up....
I don't know.... That skin tone is PRETTY Distinctive... And just because I see a lighter guy wearing Air Jordans on his feet.... doesn't mean I jump to the conclusion that he IS michael Jordan
In my mind... He-man is the Grand celebrity of Eternia. Kids run around with swinging toy versions of he-man's sword.... His Hair cut is more common then any sitcom stars fashion wave...
The fact that adam has the same haircut and owns a replica sword... really shouldn't be as big a clue as people assume. Even in MOTUC bios we know that Faker and Wundar both had 'fake' power swords....
ONe thing I'd like to see more often... is people COMMENTING that he looks 'similiar' to each other... Adam can't get away to change... Teela tells him to lose the shirt. YOU'RE gonna have to pretend to be he-man!!!! Try to be 'brave' for once!!!'
Frosta can't get he-man... But y'know what Adora... your brother isn't bad either...
Actually... did he ever meet Frosta as 'Adam'?? I THOUGHT Castaspella had a thing for Adam... but I'm far from a PoP expert ^_^
And a sexier voice! That's probably what throws them off.
Check out my Masters of the Universe and Princess of Power fan comic web series at http://cosmiccomicrealm.weebly.com and leave feedback at my blog http://cosmiccomicrealm.blogspot.ca
I am greatly enjoying this discussion & I can definitely see where a lot of you are coming from in regard to losing the Secret Identity Motif.
Personally, I have always felt that He-Man is the person that Adam was always meant to become, but that he would have to grow into it. Very few of us are "born into greatness" with most of us having to be forged into the people that we are now by a lifetime of trials, tribulations, defeats & victories (however large or small they all may be in the greater scheme of things) & with many of us still questing to become "the person that we were meant to be". (I certainly know that after 38 years on this rock, I'm still learning who I am, though I have a much better idea now than I did in my teens.)
This Idea in MOTU goes all the way back to the very first Mini-Comics (King Of Castle Grayskull to be specific) with the Spirit of Castle Grayskull ruminating & smiling at the fact that He-Man will prove himself to be the true King of Castle Grayskull At The Proper Time. This isn't as simple & by the numbers as pulling a sword from a stone just because it has been preordained. It isn't just a birthright. Oh, no! This has to be built/grown into/proven/fought for & won through great valor & noble sacrifice. This is somewhat akin to Zeus' origins in Greek Myth. He wasn't "born" the King of the Gods, he had to wait for the proper time & fight for it.
I really loved how the MYP Cartoon dramatized this "growing into your destiny" idea by making Adam intentionally younger & smaller than He-Man himself. The "Protecting Family & Friends" Angle is pretty moot as his Family & Friends are always in the various enemies' crosshairs anyway. But the idea that the Identity is NEEDED to protect Adam himself because he hasn't yet grown/matured enough to carry the full mantle of his Power & Responsibility is compelling to me. The notion that you have to deliberately hide "who you will become" behind "who you are today" so that you can survive long enough, until such time as you grow fully into "who you will become" is rather novel & fascinating, in my humble opinion. Add to that the fact that Adam is quite often forced to sacrifice his own personal standing with those around him, particularly King Randor & Teela (somehow I always felt that Queen Marlana knew all along), by deliberately making himself out to be much more cowardly & bumbling than he actually is, and you've got yourself a full blown self-sacrificing hero in the making. Or as Alfred so eloquently put it in The Dark Knight (easily one of the most excellent films ever made!), "That's the sacrifice he's making. He's NOT being a hero. He's being something more."
The Adora/She-Ra Identity could be viewed in much the same way, I suppose, but I have always felt that it was something of a wasted opportunity. There was a unique setup for Adora to remain inside the upper echelons of the Horde, a perfect cover for spying for the Rebellion & possibly sabotaging from within, while She-Ra was firmly in the Rebellion, standing tall as the champion of virtue & light in a world that so desperately needs it. This would have also allowed for a deeper exploration & development of Adora's character as she would constantly be challenged with moral dilemmas while maintaining her cover in the Horde. Oh, well.
At any rate, I'm guessing that when the King He-Man Bio is released, the real name will still say "Adam of the House of Randor". "Keep reading the Bios!"
Long Live MOTU!!!!
Now & Forever!!!!
Last edited by npbaity; August 9, 2012 at 05:10am.
Well like the rest have pointed out, Adam reveals himself during the NA series and in this new canon it would only make sense considering the bios are pushing the line and canon forward; it's just a natural progression. I think the moment Adam declares himself He-man (in the Classics canon) will be a major plot point to continue the story onward.
As for She-Ra, I think she would reveal herself to The Great Rebellion before they arrive on Eternia. At this point they should be a fully functioning faction rather than if they arrive on Eternia and just find out; the reveal could delve into characters feeling like they were lied to and deceived, which would make some great buildup / breakup stories of the friendships Adora/She-Ra has with her friends and can strengthen them (or maybe distance some) once and for all in their 'Final Battle' against The Horde. Although some may have already held suspicion of her duality already...
'Tis the wind and nothing more.....
This is a great discussion.
The joke has always been that it's not a transformation, it's a change of clothes and a tan. This is why I really prefer the 200x version of Adam. He's a boy and he needs the power of Grayskull to transform into a man. He is going through the trials and tribulations of adolescence while growing into his role as the protector of Eternia. I wish we could have had this version of Adam in MOTUC, but I understand why it wasn't feasible.
To me, the big problem here is that it's stated in the bios that Adam adventured as He-Man BEFORE he had the power sword. He dressed like He-Man and used the electronic power sword as a conduit to the power, but if you think about it...does that really make him He-Man? It reinforces that He-Man isn't a transformation but a change of clothes. He-Man isn't an identity, it's a title. The gear you use to do your job as "a He-Man" is up to you. Adam just happened to know a really smart dude who knew how to build a sword that could "cheat" and tap into the power.
Here's my proposal to the problem. In the fiction, it makes sense, but it's a very ugly retcon: There are two era's of Adam's He-Man. When he was a kid, he used the electronic power sword. This changes his body from a gangly teenager to an avatar of King Grayskull. (The ugly retcon part: Does this mean that all of the Filmation adventures were actually done with the electronic power sword? This also contradicts the bios a bit in that he's not getting dressde up in power armor.) Once Adam has grown up and learns the secret to merging the two halves of the Sword of He, the transformation becomes permanent. At this point, whether he is dressed as Adam or as He-Man, he IS He-Man.
On the other hand.. It's established that the sword gives him the gear he needs at the time, whether it's Battle Armor or Thunder Punch. Maybe when he's dressed in his pink tights, it just gives him regular He-Man gear.
Yeah, it's a difficult problem to solve. The problem is that we all have our own favorite interpretations of the fiction. I'm wondering if there are any fans that want to chime in to reconcile their "cave of power" version of the transformation.
EDIT:
This is brilliant, and I agree completely.
Last edited by hadley; August 26, 2012 at 10:53am.
I would not shed a single tear over losing "secret" identities
Further, in the original DC comics, Adam was going about demonstrating superhuman feats of strength in public as Adam. Of course, instead of being the lays-about/coward that most other continuities portray Adam's guise as, this one seemed to paint Adam as a troublemaker, boaster and a bit of a jerk.This is a great discussion.
The joke has always been that it's not a transformation, it's a change of clothes and a tan. This is why I really prefer the 200x version of Adam. He's a boy and he needs the power of Grayskull to transform into a man. He is going through the trials and tribulations of adolescence while growing into his role as the protector of Eternia. I wish we could have had this version of Adam in MOTUC, but I understand why it wasn't feasible.
To me, the big problem here is that it's stated in the bios that Adam adventured as He-Man BEFORE he had the power sword. He dressed like He-Man and used the electronic power sword as a conduit to the power, but if you think about it...does that really make him He-Man? It reinforces that He-Man isn't a transformation but a change of clothes. He-Man isn't an identity, it's a title. The gear you use to do your job as "a He-Man" is up to you. Adam just happened to know a really smart dude who knew how to build a sword that could "cheat" and tap into the power.
Here's my proposal to the problem. In the fiction, it makes sense, but it's a very ugly retcon: There are two era's of Adam's He-Man. When he was a kid, he used the electronic power sword. This changes his body from a gangly teenager to an avatar of King Grayskull. (The ugly retcon part: Does this mean that all of the Filmation adventures were actually done with the electronic power sword? This also contradicts the bios a bit in that he's not getting dressde up in power armor.) Once Adam has grown up and learns the secret to merging the two halves of the Sword of He, the transformation becomes permanent. At this point, whether he is dressed as Adam or as He-Man, he IS He-Man.
On the other hand.. It's established that the sword gives him the gear he needs at the time, whether it's Battle Armor or Thunder Punch. Maybe when he's dressed in his pink tights, it just gives him regular He-Man gear.
Yeah, it's a difficult problem to solve. The problem is that we all have our own favorite interpretations of the fiction. I'm wondering if there are any fans that want to chime in to reconcile their "cave of power" version of the transformation.
Re: Power Sword, I'm not sure I got the same implications. To me, he was still powering up with the power from Grayskull's spirit/castle, but he wasn't at "full" strength until he got the real Power Sword, which also gave him the powers of the Elders or whatever is supposed to be in it.
In fairness, that guy did bring balance to the Force; over 20 years later, but he still did it!Taking into account the whole MYP story, I could almost see the secret identity years as more of a trial... He-Man is who he truly is destined to be, but until he proves himself worthy of the mantle completely, able to balance is "duties" as He-Man with his "life as prince" the two must remain separated. I mean, there have been numerous people taking up the role of He-Man over the millennia, what if these weren't the twins of prophecy? Or what if they weren't worthy of their destiny? Heck look what happened with the guy that was destined to bring balance to the Force...
"Whoever says money is evil...doesn't have it"- Boiler Room
I feel the secret identity is needed. You can't compare Superman and Batman to He-man. It's more like Captain Marvel. If Bruce and Clark are in trouble, they can get out of it because Batman and Superman are who they are. If Adam is in trouble he needs to call on the Powers of Grayskull.
So the question is, when he becomes King He-Man, does he permanently keep the powers. Because in NA, the powers are transferred into Starship Eternia. Hince him calling on Eternia instead of Grayskull. Which was always silly to me. Grayskull should be able to be called on anywhere and in anytime. Except pre King Grayskull.
Now if King He-Man does have all the power, then what is his son calling on? And if he does not, then why is he still called He-Man, except for the fact that he grew up looking exactly like He-Man.
And if Grayskulls Power is gone to He-Man then what is Adora calling on to become She-ra?
I'm sure Toyguru has it worked out, I just hope we like it.
- - - Updated - - -
If I remember right in 200x He-man got hit so hard he turned back into Adam. So he can lose his ability against his will.
I disagree, if Hordak finds out Adora and She-ra are the same, then this plays out in my mind.Yes I Adora would give up hers as well. Heck Adora maintaining the secret identity made even less sense than Adam. With Adam you can use the (very flimsy) "he has to protect his family" bit (because Skeletor sure has no grudge against Randor otherwise). But Adora doesn't have family on Etheria. Hordak is already trying to destroy the Rebels/Whispering Woods every episode. He already wants to capture Adora, both because she escaped him and because she is leader of the Rebellion. I am hard pressed to think of one good, logical reason for her to have the secret identity. I guess Skeletor could find out if he comes to Etheria like he did in the cartoon, but that doesn't seem to be the case in Classics.
Hordak: If Adora is She-ra, then Adam is He-man, And it was his visit that started this whole mess. Meaning their power must come from Eternia, and the only place powerful enough is Castle Graysull.
Skeletor: Hordak what are you doing on my planet? Adam is He-man you say, now it all makes sense. Now I will stop wasting my time focusing on Grayskull and instead of kidnapping Adam, just kill him and the rest of the family, then Grayskull will be mine.
All very good questions. Teela is the same as Lois Lane in that regard. And the fact that loud mouth Orko could keep a secret, will give him some points. Plus it was an order from the Prince, they could not disobey.
Yes, in the cartoon Frosta was talking with Adora in her home, and they spied on Adam sitting at a tree. Frosta lustfully cast a spell that made the lake grab him, and he came up in her fountain on Etheria, same episode that the Horde made a bubble around the Whispering Woods I believe. Not wait, It was not Frosta, but Castaspella, so never mind.
I love this idea, and would not mind that be given a try in a new show. Not sure how many episodes they could pull off before Hordak tells Adora he wants her to lead the fight against She-ra. Either She-ra never shows up, or Adora is branded a turncoat for not facing She-ra as Hordak commanded.
Last edited by Paul Justice; August 27, 2012 at 03:24am.
Admittedly, in a more serious treatment of the subject matter (ala the tone of MYP at the very least), the premise would wear thin rather quickly. However, it could be treated like the many times Skeletor has kidnapped Adam with the expectation that He-Man would come to the rescue but instead of Man-At-Arms creating a Robotic He-Man, perhaps Madame Razz could magically create an Adora Clone for the purpose of the battle. (Let's face it, inevitably the bad guys lose anyway.At least this way they could make the battle look good by having the Adora Clone come closest to besting She-Ra over all the other Hordesmen, which would help maintain Adora's standing with Hordak.) Something like that might work on those occasions, as has a Robotic He-Man until such time as Adam could get free & make the change.
Now, if we are talking a more lighthearted kid-friendly treatment of the matter (ala Filmation) where Villian Ineptitude reigns supreme, the premise could stretch on into infinity.
That being said, I've never been a huge fan of a complete cast of bumbling badguys. Most of the Villains SHOULD be competent & present a very real threat. In my opinion, MYP did a better job at this than Filmation, though Clawful & Whiplash's IQs as well as Two Bad's self-bickering were skewed a bit more to the humorous side than I would have liked. I guess my favorite treatment of MOTU Villains to date would have to be MVC, where every Villain was treated like a legitimate threat to Eternia the vast majority of the time.
Long Live MOTU!!!!
Now & Forever!!!!
I would not depend on Madamme Razz's magic, and just call Duncan. But I totally agree with you on the bumbling Bad Guys, I too was more in favor of 200x because of that, as well as the MOTU Movie, All the bad guys were great, moreso Frank Langella and Meg Foster did great jobs as Skeletor and Evil-Lyn.Admittedly, in a more serious treatment of the subject matter (ala the tone of MYP at the very least), the premise would wear thin rather quickly. However, it could be treated like the many times Skeletor has kidnapped Adam with the expectation that He-Man would come to the rescue but instead of Man-At-Arms creating a Robotic He-Man, perhaps Madame Razz could magically create an Adora Clone for the purpose of the battle. (Let's face it, inevitably the bad guys lose anyway.
Now, if we are talking a more lighthearted kid-friendly treatment of the matter (ala Filmation) where Villian Ineptitude reigns supreme, the premise could stretch on into infinity.
That being said, I've never been a huge fan of a complete cast of bumbling badguys. Most of the Villains SHOULD be competent & present a very real threat. In my opinion, MYP did a better job at this than Filmation, though Clawful & Whiplash's IQs as well as Two Bad's self-bickering were skewed a bit more to the humorous side than I would have liked. I guess my favorite treatment of MOTU Villains to date would have to be MVC, where every Villain was treated like a legitimate threat to Eternia the vast majority of the time.
Long Live MOTU!!!!
Now & Forever!!!!
I would really like if their secret is out in the open.
Wish List: Eldor, Skeleton Warriors, King Argho, Horde Wraiths, Kobolds, Prahvus, Lord Masque, Rock Monster, Gen. Tartaran, Evil Seed, Carnivorous Plant, Lizard-Man, Hawke, Crimson Fury, Melaktha, Extendar, Spinwit, Ra-Jarr, Kelclar, King Miro, Dare, Missile-Toe, Sh'gora, Vizar, Harpy, ABC Giants, Lodar, Dragoon, Darius, Seahawk, Masks of Power Demons, Slob-Boar, Bubblor, Three-Beast
So I have been wondering lately and I want an answer. Who all knew Adora existed and was kidnapped? I mean Adam had no idea so did the kingdom just pretend she didn't exist? Or has this ever been addressed?
LOL.
In all of geekdom I'd never ever thought I'd see people actually debating the silliness of a Clark/Superman-Adam/He-Man secret identity. It is what if is people- and that is awesome.
And I thought the Secret Identities were already out the door in Ultimate Battleground II
I love the transformations. I loved them as a kid and I love them now. Especially She-Ra's. I can only imagine how many of us became fans due to watching the FILMation transformation.
One thing I love about this sort of story is that we never have to witness that period in time where people find out (if ever). Same with characters dying. But that's just my preference - I am aware that other people feel differently.
In my canon there is no King He-Man. There is King Adam. The sub exclusive coming in 2013 is He-Man (NOT King He-Man, but the transormation of King Adam). King Adam looks different.
Also, the whole concept of Adam passing on the power sword and taking up the 200X power sword is something that I haven't embraced. If anything, I would prefer to have He-man transfer the power of Grayskull into something else, something unique to Dare. IMO, if you are going to change things up so dramatically that the main charatcer (He-Man) is no longer the main charater, then why not go all the way and give the new main character a new weapon?
Well, in Filmation The Sorceress flat out mind wiped the whole planet, so they can't remember that Adora even existed let alone has been kidnapped. Apperently she felt that would spare people the pain of loss.
And if you think that's crazy, in one episode she even mind wiped her own daugter. Teela at long last found out who her mother really was, but apperently wasn't supposed to know yet, so good bye short-term memory.
I sometimes wonder if Adam is He-Man of his own free will, or if The Sorceress just mind controled him into doing it.
Fictional characters are just that. Fictional. They have no personality or free will of their own.
Writers and editors mold them to their own wants and needs.
All we as the audience and fans can do is pick and choose our favorite interpretation and ignore the rest.
I don't know how I'd feel about them losing the secret identity.
If they did become He-Man and She-Ra permanently, does that mean they lose parts of Adam and Adora in the process?
I like the changing into He-Man and She-Ra I see them doing this mostly because they can't sustain their more powerful forms for too long, and that's why they have to change back to Adam and Adora.
"Skeletor to King Randor, Skeletor to King Randor, come in you Royal Boob!"
I'd prefer that from a story point of view, the 'secret identities' get dropped over time. Initially it makes sense for both - especially for Adora who just came out of a stint as an evil Force Captain and needs to come across as saviour of Etheria.
I'd like to think there would be an 'episode' where she is outed and the Rebellion members and general public who are still a bit nervous around her realise they've been duped. Could have some good character fall out.
Isn't it widely known that She-Ra is He-Man's sister? So her coming to Eternia wouldn't really raise that many red flags. Plus she's coming to fight the Horde, which is what she does. Seems pretty simple to me. I too am of the opinion that when Adam has finally grown into the "He-Man" role and is king, he has no need for the bumbling clown that he was pretending to be. I totally dig a stronger and more confident Adam. In my canon he leaves behind his name and becomes King Grayskull II. It's a long story.
I guess the mind wiping is an easy out but it still leaves a lot of holes. I just read Batman 12 and he had a brother who may or may not be dead. Its kinda similar and I think the ambiguity is really interesting. Hopefully, if it is ever covered Mattel adds depth to the history.Well, in Filmation The Sorceress flat out mind wiped the whole planet, so they can't remember that Adora even existed let alone has been kidnapped. Apperently she felt that would spare people the pain of loss
And if you think that's crazy, in one episode she even mind wiped her own daugter. Teela at long last found out who her mother really was, but apperently wasn't supposed to know yet, so good bye short-term memory.
I sometimes wonder if Adam is He-Man of his own free will, or if The Sorceress just mind controled him into doing it.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
