Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 098 Discussion!

[SCB]

Eamon is wrong about something.

Not everybody loves Ram Man. Pretty sure I am somebody and I am not really a Ram Man fan. Visually he never appealed to me and his characterizations in both filmation and myp did not make me warm to the character at all.

He was talking about the majority.

[gbagok]

I sure hope that Scott and all realize that in that Filmation character vote, a lot of people who voted for Shokoti would probably have voted Lord Masque second and bumped him up above characters like Icer if they didn't vote for Shokoti. Also, Plundor on that list and not Lizardman? Nooooooo!

I agree, all characters for the win! Still hoping for Illumina (and a proper one, with Sleetah, dream big!) sooner than later too though.

[Tallstar]

On a side note, I wanted to mention that it seems unlikely the $50 slot is something like Battle Ram. It's possible I'm not remembering correctly, but I thought that at one time Scott explained that vehicles couldn't be in the subscription because they had to have the freedom to adjust the price. Or something to that effect.

[mjw41]

On a side note, I wanted to mention that it seems unlikely the $50 slot is something like Battle Ram. It's possible I'm not remembering correctly, but I thought that at one time Scott explained that vehicles couldn't be in the subscription because they had to have the freedom to adjust the price. Or something to that effect.

the $50.00 slot is a 2 pack army Builder. As Scott put it the last day before the sub sales ended "The Most Fan demanded army builder ever asked for"

It could only be The Horde Troopers now that the figures in the sub are $25.00 each making the 2 pack $50.00

[Krueger]

It could only be The Horde Troopers now that the figures in the sub are $25.00 each making the 2 pack $50.00

That, or Skeletor's robots. Either would be fine with me.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

The way I see it, vintage POP shows a lot of potential. POP fans are still bidding on/purchasing the vintage figures on eBay, just like they have for the past 15 or so years. Spinnerella MOC is still going for thousands of dollars. I mean, it's not like everyone just up and dropped them in favor of what we're getting in MOTUC. And while you could argue that folks are only buying vintage POP for the sake of nostalgia and/or because they're dolls, I have a hard time believing that nostalgia wouldn't spill over into MOTUC if we were to get some of those designs. The problem isn't that the desirability is absent, it's the fact that POP fans have gotten scraps since the line started in 2008 are now so many of them are in "freak out mode" regarding design choices. But once we've burned through the major Filmation POP characters and toy line, then what? I really think folks are underestimating how they would perform in Classics. They haven't even properly tested one.

And with all due respect, I think you are overly optimistic about how well they would do.

The same could be said about the vehicles, though. It doesn't really make sense for Mattel to waste time with preorders and whatnot if the numbers aren't there. (I'm not trying to prevent anyone from getting their faves, btw.)

To be honest, I agree. While I very much want more vehicles, it's not looking very likely that we will get any. And Scott has flat out said recently that if people want more vehicles, the Wind Raider needs to sell better/sell out, and it hasn't. I bought my Wind Raider back when it originally came out. If not enough people are interested to make more vehicles possible, then yeah I find that somewhat disappointing, but it is what it is and I can fully understand why we might not get more vehicles.

[gbagok]

I would hope the $50 item is Horde Troopers. I think any other army builder will be a mistake at this point--even the robot knights.

With RE to skin tones, I hope they look at Garn and Queen Balina from the Filmation "Tale of Two Cities" as characters that present that opportunity to add variety. Although I hope they make the more Native American-based design for Garn from the mini comics too. Choices!

[Stygian360]

I would hope the $50 item is Horde Troopers.

I think the $50 slot is less a question mark than the $25 slot... at least IMHO. Has it already been mentioned as to who/what this slot will be?

[rhea]

I enjoyed alot of the podcast (haven't been able to listen to many until I got my new computer.) First of all (as some one else pointed out), never had a chimichanga? Hello, you're dating a major foodie!!! I live in the middle of nowhere and even I have been eating those for decades. OK, as for the toy vs Filmation look, yes, I'm one of those who does prefer the toy look (Tally, you're not alone), but I realize they will try to appease the greatest number of people possible. Still, I thinkthey need to add detail to the Filmation designs to make them look more in line with the other figures... She-Ra number one sucked--when they added the details to her bracers and boots, I was much relieved. Star Sisters again a wee bit plain, but I have custom ones in my vintage POP and really don't think they could've budgeted to get that detailed look. And there are several others I somewhat dread, Angella and Glimmer (because their Filmation costumes are identical) and Entrapta because her Filmation look was hideous (which is a moot point because I doubt they will get to her.) I prefer Casta in Filmation colors and the rest are acceptable. As for RamMan, no I don't like the character, but the figure is gorgeous--like Danielle I will never use that other head (looks too much like he needs a stool softener.) I appreciate Val & company asking a lot of POP related questions this time around and Scott & Eric for giving clear answers--when possible. Also, rather enjoyed and was surprised by Eamon's insight into Rio Blast--I don't know why it surprised me (seeing how I don't really know Eamon), but it did make me want to get to know him a wee bit more. My fave part was Danielle describing her week with the guy's father & step-mother, I've been in a very similar situation and could identify with it very much! Anyhoo, loved listening and can't wait for more...

[cbomb23]

Another great episode guys! And Val it is awesome you are caught up, hopefully these can be released almost on time would be fantastic! I would like to add my support for the design decision on Bow, when he was revealed at SDCC he and Vikor were easily my favorite reveals then and after the "leaked" list the prior day I was most anticipating King Hssss (Sorry his Snake form really didn't blow me away). And as far as Danielle wanting everything, I'm there with you and I don't think others are necessarily not wanting everything, just that they fear the line ending and the ones they could live without over others were expressed. Ok maybe I don't want everything As I really don't want Chef Allen, Crackers, Plundor, Songster, NA Scientists, or Twiggits.

SO the figure Eric was sculpting is one of Scott's favorites??

Hmmm....

A few characters come to mind: Two Bad... Castaspella... Snake Face... ???

Sounded like it was the SDCC 2013 item he was sculpting? Maybe Two-Bad with Tuvar and Baddra? Probably won't learn who it is until April.

I remember Plundor is also a favorite of Scott.

Please no.

*deep sigh* Listening to the discussions regarding POP toy vs Filmation looks always leaves me feeling dissatisfied, because we get the same type of answers that shirk the core arguments some of us bring up on the boards.

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter. If I am leaving anyone else out, forgive me, I don't mean to do that.

I do think that it's important for Scott to hear all opinions on POP. I think he thinks your opinion is the opinion of all POP fans because you and Darkspecter as so vocal. Your being vocal is great... but his perception wouldn't be correct. So I am not sure what these "core arguments" are and why they matter now when both Scott and Eric have made clear what the approach to POP will be.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

Great post. Pretty much made my point for me Just putting my voice out there in support of the way the POP figures have been handled. And thanks for ditching the comb weapons, let's keep up with NO MORE COMB WEAPONS!

I guess I keep hoping that at some point Scott will take responsibility for the multitude of comments over the years, whereby POP toy versions were made out to be a real possibilty in the Classics, and also offer a logical explanation as to why they have to chose one version over another. I'm not debating Filmation's general popularity with the fan base, btw. I'm merely saying the toy designs should be able to co-exist with the other figures in this line.

Immediately, some folks may feel compelled to point out that MOTUC is in a "State of Emergency" of sorts what with 2014 and beyond potentially being scaled back, and that it's unrealistic to keep pushing for variants right now... but my issue is: Scott has continually stated that he prefers to keep a positive outlook about MOTUC's future prospects, yet offers zero positivity and hope to the toy POP fans who became invested in his original mission statement and other official Mattel commentary on the subject. This positive outlook is seemingly reserved only for the folks who are dying for MOTU vehicles, a variant Ram Man and so on. It's really disappointing to witness this preferiential treatment is such an overt way.

But the line kind of is in a "State of Emergency", and things change in business all the time. You keep bringing up Scott's previous comments when the line was growing, also many have expressed they like the direction that the Horsemen and Mattel have gone. And in no way did I get that MOTU vehicles and a Ram Man variant are on the table anymore than POP toy variants are? Scott has said the vehicles would need to see the Wind Raider sell thru before moving forward with another and that may not even be possible if it does. And the Ram Man variant is a simple repaint they could reuse the exact same sculpt just painted different and could be released in 2020 at SDCC?

I'm not sure why some folks are standing up and applauding for bcrduke, when I've always been open to getting both Filmation and toy versions in this line. *shrugs* And yes, at one time I thought it would be neat to get an additional rooted head with the POP gals as an extra like some other folks, but point to me where I'm "pushing" for this sort of stuff??

And people have heard it over and over, I think many are just letting their voice be heard. Most are very happy with what has happened with POp in MOTUC.

Here's the thing though: This line was never supposed to be about just getting the most popular characters or versions. The sky was supposed to be the limit. While I agree Mattel went overboard with the amount of concepts they put out and that it's the right move for them to focus on A-Listers like Glimmer, Angella etc. for the next 2 years or so after 2013, making the preferred designs, this is actually a completely separate issue from the issues I'm brining up. Filmation is generally more popular. Yes, we already know that. What I'm looking for, is some glimmer of hope that Mattel will eventually get to toy versions and honor past statements if the line survives.

And they may get to Toy Versions? Just isn't going to happen for the forseeable future. They never said never, as long as people keep buying they'll keep making. But again I think the demand for all Toy Variant POP figures is very select group.

I just have to add that 50$ item better be Horde Troopers, why are you guys pushing vehicle to that spot in the podcast!

It won't be a vehicle, vehicles aren't in the sub. I'm surprised Scott didn't address this?

The same could be said about the vehicles, though. It doesn't really make sense for Mattel to waste time with preorders and whatnot if the numbers aren't there. (I'm not trying to prevent anyone from getting their faves, btw.)

That's the point of a pre-order to see if the numbers are there, if they are you move forward if they are not you cancel the pre-order. Seems like a pretty safe way to move forward on a higher cost item to me?

On a side note, I wanted to mention that it seems unlikely the $50 slot is something like Battle Ram. It's possible I'm not remembering correctly, but I thought that at one time Scott explained that vehicles couldn't be in the subscription because they had to have the freedom to adjust the price. Or something to that effect.

Yep it won't be a vehicle, it will be an army builder 2 pack. (Hopefully Horde Troopers )

[Barezz]

I REALLY hope it is Horde Troopers, I think a lot of people (me included) will be really disappointed if it is not, even if it is Skeletor's "evil robots". I feel pretty confident that Horde Troopers are the most demanded ones. Plus if the line shrinks down to just 12 figures in 2014 that might knock army builders out altogether.

I agree that Bow is a great figure. And honestly I don't mind if there were 2nd "rooted hair" heads for PoP figures. I'm a huge fan of 2nd heads because it gives people display options. If I don't like the 2nd head, it goes in the bin, no big deal. Could always be trade fodder. Would be no different than the UK Horde Prime head. Unfortunately it's probably as likely as 200X heads (shhhhh Stinkor has a "modern head )

Also I hope Glimmer and Angella look mostly Filmation. I have always wanted those versions.

[Nekk-ra]

I have to agree with the majority (and BCRDuke) in regards to the POP characters: Mostly Filmation, with toy details to flesh out the designs. Bow and BP She-ra should be the standard bearers for how the figures are handled.

The toy versions of Starburst She-ra and Catra are the only ones I could see getting the variant treatment in the possible future. Heck, give her a 200x Evil-lyn bodice and the furry underpants, and you've got your toy Catra in her simplest and very MOTU-looking form. But the rest? Glimmer, Spinnerella, and Entrapta are the ones that could use more toy elements than the other girls simply to punch up their cartoon looks. Angella? The Filmation look is a Glimmer clone, but I DO NOT want plastic/rubber harem pants on her either. Double Trouble really doesn't have a choice; toy version is really all we have.

The rest of the gals should fall along the same lines as Netossa, except without the loss of accessories. Fortunately, the rest don't come with net capes, so hopefully they'll have the tooling dollars to properly arm them.

As for Ram-man, I love how the figure turned out, but the second head is a waste of tooling. It's just not different enough to justify creating it.

[He-Metayer]

I think the $50 slot is less a question mark than the $25 slot... at least IMHO. Has it already been mentioned as to who/what this slot will be?

I am guessing it will be a variant character. Maybe NA He-Man or NA Skeletor?

[JVS3]

Other than the seemingly endless exegesis about nothing by Penndydreadful at the beginning (that entire segment could have been chopped with no loss)

exegesis?

I liked her story and glad she told it. I'm sure a lot of people found it entertaining. A lot of people like hearing from Danielle.

[mjw41]

exegesis?

I liked her story and glad she told it. I'm sure a lot of people found it entertaining. A lot of people like hearing from Danielle.

I loved the story from Danielle, it gave me a chuckle ' I think I need to flush a second time"

[JonWes]

I enjoyed Danielle's story too. I was cracking up listening to it, actually. Which was bad as I was listening to it in bed. Not sure my partner loved that. LOL.

[gbagok]

If the Four Horsemen are reading, when you guys gonna put out some human male 7th Kingdom characters? I feel like the line is missing a leading man (and yeah, to this He-Man fan that still needs to be a human guy, particularly when you got Queen Alluxandra as kind of the leading lady).

exegesis?
I liked her story and glad she told it. I'm sure a lot of people found it entertaining. A lot of people like hearing from Danielle.

I did! I know people like that, though they're not my relatives. It's funny when you like people who also happen to be just this side of "drive you nuts."

[RockinHard]

Other than the seemingly endless exegesis about nothing by Penndydreadful at the beginning (that entire segment could have been chopped with no loss),

I agree. It sounded more like a convo that should have taken place between you guys off-air. About the ten-minute mark I was thinking, "We are STILL on this? Scott? Eric? He-Man? Masters of the Universe?" Nothing against any of you. Just my opinion. Don't ban me.

[JonWes]

Just a note for future reference so others don't start using the word incorrectly - exegesis is a word very specifically used when someone is giving a critical review or interpretation of a text. Which, Danielle was not doing.

I say this as someone who has been led astray by context clues in the past, myself.

[Matthew K]

Having just spent the week with the in-laws myself, I found Danielle's story to be particularly amusing.

[Sword2Blanket]

I totally agree with what bcrduke said about Bow. I was listening to the podcast in the truck by myself when I heard Eric say that Bow got mixed reviews and I actually said "What?!" outloud. I personally thought he was almost universally praised for incorporating everything very well.

I'm also kinda concerned about them making it sound as if they've chosen to be "consistent" with the Filmation looks. That's kind of odd for me to say because I never had the toys as a kid and the cartoon was what I loved. I know some people immediately think of the PoP line as icky dolls and immediately throw their vote for the Filmation look. Quite frankly though, some of the actual design for the toys and other media were essentially the exact same basic design as Filmation except with more details (Flutterina, Peekablue, Spinnerella to name a few). I don't want my figures purposefully more bland just for some distorted sense of cohesiveness. Now when it comes to a definitive break between the two, that's something different. I'm absolutely going to vote for no skin tone Mermista legs and no Castaspella in yellow duds just like any good Filmation fan. On the other hand, I'm not so blind as to think that Filmation Entrapta was the best design.

[Penny Dreadful]

Fine Stygian360 and RockinHard, when wacky relatives come to visit you someday, you can call me and tell me all about it and then we'll be even. Sorry to any who didn't care for my tale, but I needed to vent! Scott and Eric hadn't come on yet and we were just shooting the breeze. Side conversations and stories have always been part of the show anyhow, but sorry if it went on for too long.

BTW - I agree that Bow is totally awesome. I love that the POP characters are based on their Filmation looks. Using the toy details to accentuate them is a great way to add extra details to these figures. It keeps them mostly Filmation with a subtle nod to the toys as well.

[Swifty]

Fine Stygian360 and RockinHard, when wacky relatives come to visit you someday, you can call me and tell me all about it and then we'll be even. Sorry to any who didn't care for my tale, but I needed to vent! Scott and Eric hadn't even come on yet and we were just shooting the breeze. Side conversations and stories have always been part of the show anyhow, but sorry if it went on for too long.

BTW - I agree that Bow is totally awesome. I love that the POP characters are based on their Filmation looks. Using the toy details to accentuate them is a great way to add extra details to these figures. It keeps them mostly Filmation with a subtle nod to the toys as well.

These are not live podcasts. If someone feels like a story is going on too long they can easily fast forward. I happen to like these personal touches. This particular gooble helped get me through a four hour drive through the Arizona desert so I was happy for any added length!

[Darkspecter]

I haven't listened to this episode yet, but wow @ some of the comments.

Brian, Tallstar and I are very vocal about PoP because it's very dear to us...but if you're insinuating we're the only two that prefer the PoP toy designs to Filmation designs, that couldn't be further from the truth. Now, I'm not saying that there's a million of us or anything, but it's more than two. I'm not sure if it was intended that way, or if I'm misinterpreting what you were saying, but I found it pretty insulting and a tad rude (how some of your post has a "get over it" feeling to it).

There are more fans of the 80's toy PoP designs than just us two, but they have given up hope and no longer post about it (comments fell on deaf ears), keep quiet because they see how poorly Tallstar and I can be treated because of our preferences and some have just plain left the .org because of seeing that treatment and receiving similar treatment. I'm not "making this up" or embellishing. Various people from the years have PM'd me saying these things.

Again, I'm not saying 100% toy-based design fans are the majority, but it's more than 2. If I had to make an estimate, I would say one third of the PoP fans.

What's even MORE insulting is that it seems like everyone forgets my numerous ideas to make the most PoP fans happy. Hybrids, doing something like Queen Marlena...my latest Peekablue idea (Filmation + toy details with her Toy feathers sculpted on one side and on the other, her Filmation feathers). It's no secret I mainly prefer the detailed, toy designs...but I have tried very hard over the years to come up with ways to make MORE people happy and think up compromises. I would like the most parts of the fan-base happy and not just one or the other. What I find slightly ironic, is that the toy design fans (for the most part) try to find a happy medium, but quite a few Filmation design fans tend to have a "screw you" attitude towards the toy-design fans, and only accept what they personally want and don't seem to care much about everyone being at least a LITTLE bit happy...which doesn't mesh with the morals in those Filmation episodes. Just an interesting observation I've noticed. Also, before I get lots of hate messages, I'm not saying ALL Filmation fans.

What's even worse is that for the last month or so, I've just been posting about wanting Netossa's aqua colour painted silver and wanting her mask and sword...like a LOT of people (including you). So...I don't get why you're kind of throwing me under the bus here. The "big debate" in that other thread was because PoP's history in MOTUC was being recounted incorrectly. I mean, this is my first post in this thread, yet my name is thrown out a few times! lol

Anyway, Mermista. I pretty much agree with you on Mermista. I would like her Filmation design with toy colours (her Filmation colouring was too dull/drab). She should have a removable belt made after the toy. I would also prefer the human legs with the cool boots as opposed to her Filmation legs. Again, too bland for me. If they go the toy-route with human legs...they could create a new crotch piece (hard plastic) which would work for an Adora 2.0 if they ever wanted to go that route and other PoP ladies who have...well..."bikini-like" bottoms. I definitely prefer Filmation Mermista's shell bra and tail though.

My Mermista idea I posted:

Catra: cartoon (with toy influences... shield, sword, silver mask)
She-Ra 1.0: cartoon (with toy influences... gold sword, shield, toy mask, comb-axe)
Bubble Power She-Ra: toy (with cartoon influences: bodice)
Bow: total combo (really nice toy detailing in the accessories and patterns used on the armor, as well as the toy head)
Star Sisters: poster
Swift Wind: cartoon
Frosta: cartoon (with toy influences: gauntlets, boots, belt, staff/wand, shield)
Netossa: cartoon (with toy influences: shield, boots, gauntlets, cape color)
Adora: cartoon

Some of these are a bit off, Brian. She-Ra's gold sword is based on the Styleguide, not toy. The Star Sister's wands (Tallstar's being orange), Glory Bird and stand were based on the Toy Prototypes. Netossa's boots and cape are from Filmation. Toy cape = solid blue and silver intertwined, with the overall appearance of blue. It's also a rounded-shape...and large. She only has the shield and gauntlets from the toy. Frosta's boots are 100% Filmation and her toy never had a shield...so...that's just an extra.

I think the very last time rooted hair was ever brought up was when Megator got a rooted hair head and we wondered why Mattel said they didn't have the capability to make a rooted hair head in their factory and no MOTUC figure would ever get it. Then, Megator gets it...and not a PoP figure. Honestly, I'm way past that. Would I still love a rooted head pack near the end of the line (when all the PoP figures are released)? Hell yes! Have you seen some of the rooted-hair MOTUC customs (She-Ra, Teela, Evil-Lyn, etc.)? They look so amazing! I don't think it will ever happen though. Mattel is super cheap...especially lately.

I've always been pro-detail on ALL MOTUC figures, but I fully agree with the Four Horsemen about going "too far" with Bow. To me, Bow looks like he would have looked if he was re-imagined in the 200X line. I do LOVE some things about him (toy detail sculpted on shoulder pads, his accessories), but some things turn me off. NA He-Man's boots = bad. The door-knocker belt (supposed to be a bow...but it looks like a door knocker). His heart on his chest is WAY too little and my figure's BARELY resembles a heart at all. It's pretty much a circle. I also REALLY miss his clip-on knight armour and chain mail. The tiara/crown thing is neat, but again...that's a 200X redesign. The 4H did a PERFECT job melding his Filmation accessories with his toy accessories though. A+ there.

So, yes, they did some great things with Bow and other things that were not so great. Besides the heart on his crotch "molding error", the thing that upsets me the most about him are NA He-Man's boots, to be honest.

You know...it's pretty depressing coming to the .org after a long day of work. Lately, I seem to just come across threads with people saying "I hate what you like", throwing Tallstar and I under the bus or trying very hard to discredit everything I say (which, is really silly because every part of MOTUC history, Mattel Q&A's, polls, etc. are still available).

If someone doesn't like my opinions (ex. Toy Spinnerella is absolutely gorgeous and I hope her MOTUC version is modeled after it), that's perfectly okay. If someone doesn't like when I say "Mattel said all PoP figures in MOTUC were to be modeled after their toy designs" that's also okay, but to deny it and call me a liar or whatever is not okay. Mattel said it. It happened. lol These are just examples, but it's driving me crazy lately. It kind of reminds me of my brother. He says something that's not true at all and he stands by it, so I take the time to show him he's mistaken and then he goes "that's what I said." lol

- - - Updated - - -

I'm also kinda concerned about them making it sound as if they've chosen to be "consistent" with the Filmation looks. That's kind of odd for me to say because I never had the toys as a kid and the cartoon was what I loved. I know some people immediately think of the PoP line as icky dolls and immediately throw their vote for the Filmation look. Quite frankly though, some of the actual design for the toys and other media were essentially the exact same basic design as Filmation except with more details (Flutterina, Peekablue, Spinnerella to name a few). I don't want my figures purposefully more bland just for some distorted sense of cohesiveness.

Thank you!

[Jun-Yor]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger outcry over Ram Man's closed eyes. No other MOTUC figure has closed eyes, and Mattel gave us two heads. There is no excuse for not having at least one head with his eyes open. That "gutsy decision" for the first head becomes a very poor decision for the second.

I am hoping they are risky enough for a Ram Man with open eyes when they do the red/orange repaint!