Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 098 Discussion!

[Angel-T]

First off I loved this episode and the last one. Danielle I loved your story about the inlaws. One of the best things about the show is the personal stories you guys share. Your mum in law sounds like comedy gold. I was crying with laughter listening, while also feeling for you.

Val, thank-you for finally giving the concerns over Netossa's missing accessories a good airing. I agreed with much of what was said in the POP discussion. The only thing I was really dissapointed to hear from Eric and Scott was that they didn't want to look to much at the toy designs as they were made for girls back in the day. When it comes to rooted hair I can see scott's position, Buthe should not have broken his own rule by giving Megator a rooted head. That was like a red flag to a bull to a number of POP fans and I can totally relate to how unfair they found that. However, to throw out all those classic POP toy design elements just because they were included with action figures that had rooted heads is a big over reaction in my oppinion and throwing the baby out with the bath water.

In almost all cases the Filmation designs left the women's boots, arm gauntlets and belts bare. Including these design elements from the original POP toys should be seen in a positive light. These designs do not violate or interfere with the filmation design elements, but rather enrich and complement the Filmation designs, adding authentic vintage detail to these characters. The would prevent the pure Filmation designs from being to plain and cartoon like and help to bring the POP women more in line with the design asthetic established with MOTUC's versions of She-Ra, Teela and Evil Lyn.

If POP fans can't have the vintage versons of these characters, the Four Horsemen should at least continue to use the classic toy design elements to further enrich design areas of these characters that Filmation left bare. This approach worked really well with Bubble Power She-Ra and looks ace on Netossa... They both fit right in with the other MOTUC females. Little nods like this are important for the POP figures, and help classic toy POP fans feel that little bit more invested in the line.

[RockinHard]

Go Filmation!

[WDWFreak53]

exegesis?

I liked her story and glad she told it. I'm sure a lot of people found it entertaining. A lot of people like hearing from Danielle.

I actually really liked it...I was laughing because some of it was hitting home
I'd watch that sitcom.

[Barezz]

There's a fine line between passion and excitement and overexposure. Sometimes people get caught up in their ideas so much that they talk the crap out of them, make polls, cite said polls as gospel and just beat you over the head if you have a different opinion. There are some characters or concepts around here that are "sacred cows" and heaven help you if you don't love the heck out of them. I think it is an evolutionary throwback to our caveman ancestors. "You no listen me hit you with club. Now you listen."

Don't get me wrong, I have my own personal causes and crusades. I REALLY want a Crita figure. I'm also fairly certain that I could go bonkers crazy and start making tons of posts about her and make a fair amount of people hate her due to overexposure

[Jun-Yor]

Go Filmation!

Go Filmation characters, not Filmation designs. Why are people trumpeting bland cartoon design elements? "Hurray, we want what the sculpts to be without inspiration, with no attention to detail! More 70% please!" When She-Ra MOTUC came out, she had nothing on her boots and bracers, dull gold on a gray dress passing itself off as white, and that was OK? Just because the girls would look more ornate using toy elements, it's doesn't mean they'd looked too "girly" or whatever negative connotation some people are throwing at the nicely-done designs of the toys, They'd look more detail-oriented.

If He-Man came out now based on the cartoon, say good bye to a studded belt, unique gauntlets, strapped boots, and harness blocking studs. That would be such a "Brand X" boring barbarian toy.

Now in Filmation, there are bland design elements, but there are also extremely distinctive design elements. The argument can be reversed for Skeletor, and this is where PoP struggles, too. Skeletor's toy "bonnet" look and greenish skull is pretty reviled by many (at least in my circles), and if there is one design element to bring to MOTUC, it's Skeletor's Filmation head with hood that drapes over the neckline on his armor. There is so much attachment to that particular aesthetic, it even bled into the mini-comics. The fact it has yet to be translated into toy form for one of his variants (still praying it works its way into Terror Claws Skeletor) is baffling to me. Some would even add his boots and bare arms, but I love all the toy details on Skeletor because incorporating detail-bare boots and arms would take away from the character to me. If anything would make the cut, it would be the head.

PoP works the same way. What is hard is that some of the girls have two very distinct looks. Angella and Glimmer are very detail-oriented in the toys, with completely different outfits. On the show they are just about identical, barring colors. To me, the Four Horsemen got it right in that the toon colors and the unique faces/hair are what you take away from Filmation designs. What they need to keep is the entire toy design for the outfit, which can be pared down if tooled properly if you wanted to get a more Filmation-esque base. But I would love Angella to have a pink and light-blue palette, with her slicked back short hair. But please she is not coming from aerobics. Give her that awesome toy outfit with unique detailing? Why are some folks scared of her looking good? Frosta was a lady with blue hair and an ice theme on the doll. In the toon, she had a very unique face, bangs, accent, and an aggressive sexiness to her. The toy had much nicer embellishments, uniquely scalloped bracers, and a very intricate cape. Emiliano's design showcased what could be done fantastically using both. What it does boil down to is the design choices of the sculptor. If you want them to hear you, you are on the wrong forums.

The designs like She-Ra's are without detail and bland. How much nicer did BP She-Ra look when her bracers and boots were modeled after the vintage toy? I am glad the Four Horsemen are taking that route, and I see what they did with Netossa. This is not their foray, but I love that they are doing the best they can. And these ladies are absolutely gorgeous (well, before the factories get done with them) for a collector line.

It was very telling to hear that Eric didn't take into account the vintage toy much. That's good to know. He will be at Power Con. Get some loose PoP in his hands, folks.

I am very grateful to the gang on RGD on dedicating the time and giving Eric the platform to discuss their direction with the toys, and spending so much time on Netossa in particular. Even if I don't agree with a stylistic direction (her cape, Ram-Man's cross sell head), it's nice to see there was thought there, and sometimes it's nice to understand why something happened. Netossa visually is a STUNNING piece and one I can't wait to add to my collection.

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There's a fine line between passion and excitement and overexposure. Sometimes people get caught up in their ideas so much that they talk the crap out of them, make polls, cite said polls as gospel and just beat you over the head if you have a different opinion. There are some characters or concepts around here that are "sacred cows" and heaven help you if you don't love the heck out of them. I think it is an evolutionary throwback to our caveman ancestors. "You no listen me hit you with club. Now you listen."

Don't get me wrong, I have my own personal causes and crusades. I REALLY want a Crita figure. I'm also fairly certain that I could go bonkers crazy and start making tons of posts about her and make a fair amount of people hate her due to overexposure

Question: How would you like to see Crita done? Outfit? Mara prototype re-use? Unique? Accessories? Just curious....

[WDWFreak53]

There's a fine line between passion and excitement and overexposure. Sometimes people get caught up in their ideas so much that they talk the crap out of them, make polls, cite said polls as gospel and just beat you over the head if you have a different opinion. There are some characters or concepts around here that are "sacred cows" and heaven help you if you don't love the heck out of them. I think it is an evolutionary throwback to our caveman ancestors. "You no listen me hit you with club. Now you listen."

Don't get me wrong, I have my own personal causes and crusades. I REALLY want a Crita figure. I'm also fairly certain that I could go bonkers crazy and start making tons of posts about her and make a fair amount of people hate her due to overexposure

True...and what irritates me (and I really have no ill-will towards anybody...it's just my pure jealousy ) is when people complain about how a figure they love turned out. Sure, you can have your opinions on figures and, obviously, some figures turn out better than others, but let's face it, there isn't a single "BAD" figure in the line. To not get a certain version of your favorite character (whether it be the 200x Evil-Lyn, Ice Armor He-Man, Toy versions, or Scratch n Sniff Catra), the fact is...you have your character in one way or another. There are other people, like myself, who have not had their "must haves" done and most likely never will.

Be happy with what you have and hope that you get a redo down the line of the version you find to be perfect.

For me, it's Molkrum. I've loved that monster since the first time I laid eyes on it as a young child and always wanted a toy of it. When this line started, it seemed like it MAY be a slight possibility but those dang Filmation rights got in the way. Then Mattel GOT the rights to Filmation...and my hope skyrocketed because now it COULD be a reality. Now that the line seems to be dwindling, I've had to come to the realization that Molkrum just isn't high enough up on the "must have" list of Filmation characters. Now granted, if they did do a Molkrum and it had Cy-Chop arms instead of the long "tentacles," I'd be a little upset...but nothing that extreme has happened with any figures yet.

Again, nothing against anybody, it's just my shear jealousy coming through

[Jun-Yor]

Be happy with what you have and hope that you get a redo down the line of the version you find to be perfect.

For me, it's Molkrum.

Would he use the Swift Wind buck? How would you like to see Molkrum?

[WDWFreak53]

Would he use the Swift Wind buck? How would you like to see Molkrum?

That would be absolutely fine with me. I'd definitely like to see some articulation between the "body" and the Swifty buck though...and filled in wing-holes...
I wouldn't need him to be HUGE. I understand the logistics of this line. It also wouldn't matter to me the material that is used...while I love the ability to bend the King Hssss style "arms", I would understand if they wanted to stay away and do something along the lines of what they did with Slushy.

[Nekk-ra]

I understand the sacred cow thing. My favorite vintage MOTU figure is, strangely enough, Tung Lasher. He was the only one of the Snake-men I owned, and he's really not even a snake. But I love my Froggy, and I know full well that if the Company does the Filmation version before the toy version, I'll be stinkin' mad. I'll be using words and phrases that would make a longshoreman blush.

[Barezz]

I am very grateful to the gang on RGD on dedicating the time and giving Eric the platform to discuss their direction with the toys, and spending so much time on Netossa in particular. Even if I don't agree with a stylistic direction (her cape, Ram-Man's cross sell head), it's nice to see there was thought there, and sometimes it's nice to understand why something happened. Netossa visually is a STUNNING piece and one I can't wait to add to my collection.

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Question: How would you like to see Crita done? Outfit? Mara prototype re-use? Unique? Accessories? Just curious....

My favorite version is the 2nd outfit. I would definitely want her to look like she stepped out of the cartoon. Now in a perfect world I would LOVE is she came like Marlena with extra parts to create both looks. Make her dress like Marlena's so you can have her in either outfit. Give her 2 heads, one with super poofy hair for the 1st costume and one with "still poofy but not quite so bad" hair and tiara for the 2nd outfit. Accessories I would give her a whip and blaster pistol.

Honestly though I would be thrilled with either outfit. I might be miffed if she got a recolored Teela tunic though . Unless she is released as Cosplay Crita.

Also on the subject of Glimmer and Angella...I love how they look in the show, outfits and all. Spandex leotards are so in this year on Etheria . Although I hear they call them "tunics" there . I like that they have very similar outfits, kind of a cute mother/daughter or Queen/Princess thing. When I see those I don't think they are "boring", and I don't think anyone who wants the Filmation outfits wants a "boring" figure! It's just the look that is preferred.

And Nekk-ra, vintage Tung lashor all the way!! Go Froggy!!!!!

[Angel-T]

Go Filmation!

What a fantastic idea, I am ALL for Filmation designs.....with elements of the classic POP toy design details added into the arm gauntlets, boots and belts. This way everyone gets a bit of what they like!

[Slave2Evil_Lyn]

And I was surprised to hear all the support for gay characters. I think that's awesome. But as I and others have pointed out, the mere presence of homosexual characters does not equal being sexually explicit. We have several heterosexual couples (and many of them are actually having sex, as evidenced by the number of babies in MOTUC), and there's no reason they couldn't make two males a couple.

I've been making this point for quite some time, and it's great to read posts from others who agree. Sexuality is different from sex.

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter. If I am leaving anyone else out, forgive me, I don't mean to do that.

I do think that it's important for Scott to hear all opinions on POP. I think he thinks your opinion is the opinion of all POP fans because you and Darkspecter as so vocal. Your being vocal is great... but his perception wouldn't be correct. So I am not sure what these "core arguments" are and why they matter now when both Scott and Eric have made clear what the approach to POP will be.

f both cartoon and toy influence for POP. Obviously they have used the cartoon and style guide as their primary sources. But they haven't ignored the toy designs at all.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

I could not agree more with your post bcrduke.

I don't think Tallstar and Darkspector claim to be the voice of all POP fans but because they are so passionate (which can be a good thing) and are so vocal that they have become the perceived voice of the fans. I mean this with not malice, but you guys can come off a bit heavy handed and unrelenting sometimes and it could, and has effected the perception of POP fans and how the figures have been received. There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, we all have that right, but we have to know when to hold back and pick our battles.

One thing I've never understood is in many of the toy vs Filmation threads it's said that Filmation is so bland compared to all the detail on the vintage toy. The Teela and Evil Lyn have so much more detail than She-ra 1.0. I was just discussing this with Jon-O, if you compare the vintage Teela to a vintage POP figure with out soft goods (we are talking sculpt here) it's clear that even in the vintage line Teela had way more detail. (See photo below)
So I don't except the argument that the vintage POP had so much more detail and would be on pare with Teela and Evil Lyn. Yes they have some detail on the tops of the boots and on their gauntlets but they were not painted with detail like Teela's were so they blend in. I want to go on record as saying I like having these detail on the MOTUC POP figures, my point is the vintage line is not as detailed as MOTU so it stands to reason that the same would be true in MOTUC.



I think the 4H are on the right path with POP, the Filmation look with added details works well for these figures. If the line continues on then by all means so some POP toy variants but at this point I'm just hoping we get all of the POP characters in the line.

I also agree with bcrduke on Mermista, the Filmation legs are so much more appealing. I never understood the boots, were did they come from? The Filmation legs look like her tail split into legs. Add a removable belt to and a few other toy detail and you're good to go.

I liked her story and glad she told it. I'm sure a lot of people found it entertaining. A lot of people like hearing from Danielle.

I loved Danielle's story, and I like the episodes were the host go off of tangents or personal stories, it makes them relatable.

Can't wait to hear the next episode.

[csc0709]

I haven't listened to this episode yet, but wow @ some of the comments.

Brian, Tallstar and I are very vocal about PoP because it's very dear to us...but if you're insinuating we're the only two that prefer the PoP toy designs to Filmation designs, that couldn't be further from the truth. Now, I'm not saying that there's a million of us or anything, but it's more than two. I'm not sure if it was intended that way, or if I'm misinterpreting what you were saying, but I found it pretty insulting and a tad rude (how some of your post has a "get over it" feeling to it).

There are more fans of the 80's toy PoP designs than just us two, but they have given up hope and no longer post about it (comments fell on deaf ears), keep quiet because they see how poorly Tallstar and I can be treated because of our preferences and some have just plain left the .org because of seeing that treatment and receiving similar treatment. I'm not "making this up" or embellishing. Various people from the years have PM'd me saying these things.

Again, I'm not saying 100% toy-based design fans are the majority, but it's more than 2. If I had to make an estimate, I would say one third of the PoP fans.

What's even MORE insulting is that it seems like everyone forgets my numerous ideas to make the most PoP fans happy. Hybrids, doing something like Queen Marlena...my latest Peekablue idea (Filmation + toy details with her Toy feathers sculpted on one side and on the other, her Filmation feathers). It's no secret I mainly prefer the detailed, toy designs...but I have tried very hard over the years to come up with ways to make MORE people happy and think up compromises. I would like the most parts of the fan-base happy and not just one or the other. What I find slightly ironic, is that the toy design fans (for the most part) try to find a happy medium, but quite a few Filmation design fans tend to have a "screw you" attitude towards the toy-design fans, and only accept what they personally want and don't seem to care much about everyone being at least a LITTLE bit happy...which doesn't mesh with the morals in those Filmation episodes. Just an interesting observation I've noticed. Also, before I get lots of hate messages, I'm not saying ALL Filmation fans.

What's even worse is that for the last month or so, I've just been posting about wanting Netossa's aqua colour painted silver and wanting her mask and sword...like a LOT of people (including you). So...I don't get why you're kind of throwing me under the bus here. The "big debate" in that other thread was because PoP's history in MOTUC was being recounted incorrectly. I mean, this is my first post in this thread, yet my name is thrown out a few times! lol

Anyway, Mermista. I pretty much agree with you on Mermista. I would like her Filmation design with toy colours (her Filmation colouring was too dull/drab). She should have a removable belt made after the toy. I would also prefer the human legs with the cool boots as opposed to her Filmation legs. Again, too bland for me. If they go the toy-route with human legs...they could create a new crotch piece (hard plastic) which would work for an Adora 2.0 if they ever wanted to go that route and other PoP ladies who have...well..."bikini-like" bottoms. I definitely prefer Filmation Mermista's shell bra and tail though.

My Mermista idea I posted:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6185/...a0035877_b.jpg



Some of these are a bit off, Brian. She-Ra's gold sword is based on the Styleguide, not toy. The Star Sister's wands (Tallstar's being orange), Glory Bird and stand were based on the Toy Prototypes. Netossa's boots and cape are from Filmation. Toy cape = solid blue and silver intertwined, with the overall appearance of blue. It's also a rounded-shape...and large. She only has the shield and gauntlets from the toy. Frosta's boots are 100% Filmation and her toy never had a shield...so...that's just an extra.

I think the very last time rooted hair was ever brought up was when Megator got a rooted hair head and we wondered why Mattel said they didn't have the capability to make a rooted hair head in their factory and no MOTUC figure would ever get it. Then, Megator gets it...and not a PoP figure. Honestly, I'm way past that. Would I still love a rooted head pack near the end of the line (when all the PoP figures are released)? Hell yes! Have you seen some of the rooted-hair MOTUC customs (She-Ra, Teela, Evil-Lyn, etc.)? They look so amazing! I don't think it will ever happen though. Mattel is super cheap...especially lately.

I've always been pro-detail on ALL MOTUC figures, but I fully agree with the Four Horsemen about going "too far" with Bow. To me, Bow looks like he would have looked if he was re-imagined in the 200X line. I do LOVE some things about him (toy detail sculpted on shoulder pads, his accessories), but some things turn me off. NA He-Man's boots = bad. The door-knocker belt (supposed to be a bow...but it looks like a door knocker). His heart on his chest is WAY too little and my figure's BARELY resembles a heart at all. It's pretty much a circle. I also REALLY miss his clip-on knight armour and chain mail. The tiara/crown thing is neat, but again...that's a 200X redesign. The 4H did a PERFECT job melding his Filmation accessories with his toy accessories though. A+ there.

So, yes, they did some great things with Bow and other things that were not so great. Besides the heart on his crotch "molding error", the thing that upsets me the most about him are NA He-Man's boots, to be honest.

You know...it's pretty depressing coming to the .org after a long day of work. Lately, I seem to just come across threads with people saying "I hate what you like", throwing Tallstar and I under the bus or trying very hard to discredit everything I say (which, is really silly because every part of MOTUC history, Mattel Q&A's, polls, etc. are still available).

If someone doesn't like my opinions (ex. Toy Spinnerella is absolutely gorgeous and I hope her MOTUC version is modeled after it), that's perfectly okay. If someone doesn't like when I say "Mattel said all PoP figures in MOTUC were to be modeled after their toy designs" that's also okay, but to deny it and call me a liar or whatever is not okay. Mattel said it. It happened. lol These are just examples, but it's driving me crazy lately. It kind of reminds me of my brother. He says something that's not true at all and he stands by it, so I take the time to show him he's mistaken and then he goes "that's what I said." lol

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Thank you!

No one is saying (or at least I'm not saying) your opinions are not valid. They are valid and are noted by everyone here. We are just saying that continuing to hold out hope for "toy" accurate versions of these characters in this line is just going to lead to super disappointment for you. I am happy with what we are getting in terms of POP, but I like the filmation looks over the toy looks. The toy looks are just too doll like for my tastes. Ideally, I'm not happen with some of the MOTU figures, namely Mer-Man (head - body sculpt excellent), Hordak, and most likely Tung Lashor (when he gets made) as I want them to look more like their Filmation looks. But I don't go on endlessly about it. You and Tallstar are the most vocal about this subject.

[Tallstar]

Before I respond to Slave2Evil_Lyn's post, I want to "send out" apologies to the folks that don't get a response from me. There's just too much to get through. heh

Darkspector and I are no more "unrelenting" than many of the fans who want figures based mostly on Filmation. What really bothers me about Brian's assertion is: Not only is there no evidence or indication that Scott perceives us to be the voice of all the POP fans via any of his commentary, but he (Brian) *just* recently got done telling me that my Star Sisters campaign basically wasn't on Mattel's radar at all. That was an 'insider tip' to me. (Not exactly news to me.) So it's ludicrous to now sit here and act as if Scott thinks of me in this way.

To be honest, a lot of what he said just came off like negative propaganda that was meant to diminish the strong case for toy-based designs being included in Classics as well. This isn't the first time this has happened, so it's really aggravating. There's a few folks who have made up things that I've done or said, and then when I ask them to point me to where I've done or said such and such, they go quiet until the cycle repeats itself again at a later time.

When you break it down, it's just playing on these vague notions that aren't rooted in reality, and of course some members are more than happy to go along with anything that's said about me because for some reason my interests are being perceived as a threat to them getting Filmation (insert whatever else) and/or they find me to be annoying. I really wish there was more objectivity.

[RockinHard]

Ram Man repaint in cardback colors for 2014!

[Barezz]

Propaganda campaign to diminish the what now? That might just be a bit Mulder there

Ah POP how you bring out the best drama

[Tallstar]

Propaganda campaign to diminish the what now? That might just be a bit Mulder there

Ah POP how you bring out the best drama

I don't appreciate this response at all. You're a newer member who obviously isn't privy to some of the things that were said to me both here and on Facebook.

[MegaGearMax]

Propaganda campaign to diminish the what now? That might just be a bit Mulder there

Ah POP how you bring out the best drama

POP!??!

I'm insulted! 200X defined the Era Wars! That was the Cold War of He-Man.org!

I don't appreciate this response at all. You're a newer member who obviously isn't privy to some of the things that were said to me both here and on Facebook.

How much drama has POP or 200X had since February 2011? Barezz might not have a thousand posts, but new doesn't mean ignorant. You can read REAMS of pages about how unsatisfied either camp is on various subjects. It's to the point where you get stereotyped.

[Lookie]

I don't appreciate this response at all. You're a newer member who obviously isn't privy to some of the things that were said to me both here and on Facebook.

Tallstar, I didn't take Brian's post as trying to be insulting. I think he was just pointing out that you and DS post very often and you two basically say the same thing repeatedly. Here is my assessment without knowing you:

1. You don't like the colors used on the Star Sisters.
2. You feel POP gets shorted on accessories.
3. POP should have rooted hair and be based on the toy designs.

That is all I really see posted by you. Do I think POP gets shorted? Sometimes I do. I think the way you go about trying to get things to change is what isn't really working. Am I saying you are wrong? No. I just think there is probably a better way to "rally the troops".

Hopefully, you don't take this post the wrong way as I am just trying to help and not trying to cause further discourse.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Before I respond to Slave2Evil_Lyn's

Darkspector and I are no more "unrelenting" than many of the fans who want figures based mostly on Filmation. What really bothers me about Brian's assertion is: Not only is there no evidence or indication that Scott perceives us to be the voice of all the POP fans via any of his commentary, but he (Brian) *just* recently got done telling me that my Star Sisters campaign basically wasn't on Mattel's radar at all. That was an 'insider tip' to me. (Not exactly news to me.) So it's ludicrous to now sit here and act as if Scott thinks of me in this way.

Regardless of your intentions, I do think that is has often come across like you and Darkspectre are the "voice" of the die-hard POP fans.

If anything, I think that's part of why some fans have been so "unrelenting" in voicing their preference for Filmation-based POP figures since there is this small but vocal group of die-hard toy POP fans who make it seem like the support for those versions might be bigger than it actually is.

I'm glad that it was bcrduke who made this statement since he tends to be a die-hard POP fan, but is clearly not in favor of completely vintage-toy based POP figures with this statement. I don't think most people have a problem with some degree of hybrids (i.e. Filmation as the primary influence with some details added from the toy), but figures that focus more so on the toy version than the cartoon version when there are two drastically difference overall designs is clearly not what the majority want.... and if anything, it's becoming clear that the minority who do want them are even more of a minority than originally thought.

To be honest, a lot of what he said just came off like negative propaganda that was meant to diminish the strong case for toy-based designs being included in Classics as well. This isn't the first time this has happened, so it's really aggravating. There's a few folks who have made up things that I've done or said, and then when I ask them to point me to where I've done or said such and such, they go quiet until the cycle repeats itself again at a later time.

But with all due respect, the case for getting these particular versions of these figures in this line isn't that strong, and it never was. If anything, as I just said earlier, the case is even weaker than previously thought (though it was never that 'strong' in the first place).

Your entire basis that these should even be made is pretty much based on some statements that Toyguru made in the past and the VERY small handful of people who actually have any interest in these versions. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the figures chosen to be produced should not be made based purely on "principle" if the support from the audience isn't there. Referencing the past obscure items in the line really doesn't hold water because (a) they were at least at one time believed to be more highly desired by the fan base, (b) there was never that much support for toy-based POP figures, and (c) it's obvious that the interest in obscure figures was never that great in the first place given how much obscure product (particularly in the over sized items department) we are getting this year and how poor the sub renewals were.

This is "do or die" time. This is "crisis mode." There is pretty much no worse time than now to push out an unpopular product based on principle than now.



I also think both you and Darkspectre are reading things in people's comments that aren't even there. You respond as if people are accusing you of saying that you don't think the Filmation versions should exist... and no one has ever claimed (that I've ever seen anyway) that you said anything of that nature.

Darkspectre acts like nobody knows of his past suggestions... i.e. making POP figures with alternate outfits like Marlena. And that's not true either. I remember those suggestions and they are fine in-and-of themselves. But let's be realistic here.. Marlena was an exclusive at a higher price point. Granted she came with Cringer and these POP figures likely wouldn't come with a similar companion, but none the less I could see where including an alternate outfit with each applicable POP figure would add a lot to the tooling and production cost, and may come either at the expense of other accessories coming with the figures that they should come with, or might result in bumping them up into a higher priced oversized/specialty slot like Ram-Man. And I don't think that most people would want to give up other accessories or have to pay more for a figure just so it can come with an alternate outfit that most people won't even care about or use anyway.

If it can be realistically and reasonably done at regular figure cost and without sacrificing other accessories, then that's fine. But clearly Toyguru and company don't feel that it is, and there isn't enough of a demand from the rest of the fan community to rally for it. It's just the nature of the beast.

And using Megator's alternate head as a basis for argument in favor of rooted hair for POP figures (even if you realistically know it isn't going to happen) is extremely weak. It's not like he has a full head of hair. I can see where for the particular look they were going for, it might have been hard with sculpted hair. It isn't a full head of rooted hair and was done in a unique fashion for that particular look. The regular Megator and Tytus heads don't even have rooted hair like the vintage versions did. This is an example of where you guys grasp at straws but act like you've made some kind of compelling point.

You both have every right to have your preferences, and you have every right to be disappointed when you aren't getting those. But it's time to be realistic. The odds were already very much stacked against those versions from ever coming out to begin with, and now that we are facing cut backs with the skus and even some possibility of the line ending in the not-too-distant future, these variants just aren't going to happen.

With all due respect, it's time to face the reality that you've been avoiding for the past 4 years or so.

[Jun-Yor]

One thing I've never understood is in many of the toy vs Filmation threads it's said that Filmation is so bland compared to all the detail on the vintage toy. The Teela and Evil Lyn have so much more detail than She-ra 1.0. I was just discussing this with Jon-O, if you compare the vintage Teela to a vintage POP figure with out soft goods (we are talking sculpt here) it's clear that even in the vintage line Teela had way more detail. (See photo below)
So I don't accept the argument that the vintage POP had so much more detail and would be on pare with Teela and Evil Lyn. Yes they have some detail on the tops of the boots and on their gauntlets but they were not painted with detail like Teela's were so they blend in. I want to go on record as saying I like having these detail on the MOTUC POP figures, my point is the vintage line is not as detailed as MOTU so it stands to reason that the same would be true in MOTUC.

To me you lost your argument when you took off the soft goods. You have to look at the outfit as a whole. If Teela was Glimmer in execution, she would have had rooted hair, a tiara, and some dress in place of her tunic (at least the lower half below the coin belt). By the same token, If Glimmer was a Master, I would speculate that the dress, shoulder pads, and headdress would have been molded, yet the detail would have been there. In my opinion, you can't take off the added details to prove your point. Teela and Glimmer both had signature boots, bracelets, and upper torso embellishments. Glimmer looks bare on her midsection and shoulders and head because the picture is devoid of those items. That's an unfair argument.

I can't understand the argument that they don't want the women to look too womanly. I never knew there was "just pretty enough". Feminine women? Yuck! Do any of the Masters come off as TOO manly? I know the audience I am dealing with, but it's the pink shirt argument.

And I would like to state for the record that I did not like how Bow came out in the slightest: Cosplaying NA He-Man with stressed tights, short arrows, armor that drapes and was too cheap to clip on, a too-short quiver that is GLUED to the cape with a cord fit for only strangling him. That toy is a mess LOL.

[rhea]

Ram Man repaint in cardback colors for 2014!

Only if it's outside the sub...too many other characters I want to spend my money on before they start re-hashing characters with different paint apps. After we get Rotar and Twistoid, then you can have a lime-green Rammie decorated with Froot Loops for all I care!

[Krueger]

Only if it's outside the sub...too many other characters I want to spend my money on before they start re-hashing characters with different paint apps. After we get Rotar and Twistoid, then you can have a lime-green Rammie decorated with Froot Loops for all I care!

Yeah, I agree with this. The way things are now, getting the same figure with a different paint job is very low down on the list of priorities.

[RockinHard]

Only if it's outside the sub...too many other characters I want to spend my money on before they start re-hashing characters with different paint apps. After we get Rotar and Twistoid, then you can have a lime-green Rammie decorated with Froot Loops for all I care!

Are you kidding? I don't understand why Mattel isn't listening to me. The cardback Ram Man was asked for by MANY fans. And, it took FOREVER to get to the figure. Ram Man fans are tired of this. They should start listening to us. We are a large segment of those who subscribed. It is obvious Mattel did not want Ram Man in the line (which also looks like they have somthing against obese people). The hatred of Ram Man should stop now.

[Sword2Blanket]

To me you lost your argument when you took off the soft goods. You have to look at the outfit as a whole. If Teela was Glimmer in execution, she would have had rooted hair, a tiara, and some dress in place of her tunic (at least the lower half below the coin belt). By the same token, If Glimmer was a Master, I would speculate that the dress, shoulder pads, and headdress would have been molded, yet the detail would have been there. In my opinion, you can't take off the added details to prove your point. Teela and Glimmer both had signature boots, bracelets, and upper torso embellishments. Glimmer looks bare on her midsection and shoulders and head because the picture is devoid of those items. That's an unfair argument.

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read Slave2Evil_Lyn's post. It was kind of like comparing apples to oranges then extrapolating that conclusion to bananas.