MOTUC Q&A's From Around the Net (10/1/2012)

[Inhibitor]

I'm surprised we haven't been relegated to the tarswamp yet, but respectfully... I can't agree with those that believe sexual orientation is completely interchangeable. He-Man has always had a thing for Teela (ala Superman & Lois) and to change that would completely alter his character and his relationships with those surrounding him. It would certainly change this new faction of "He-Ro, Son of He-Man"!

Probably the wisest move would be to take secondary or tertiary character that don't have much in the way of development. Netossa might be a candidate, but I think it's better to create new ones with that in mind.

[chrisware]

This.

As He-dad pointed out. A lot of parents do not believe that a toy line is the proper place for such subjects. Also, since its impossible to state such a thing without 'offending' some people... I REALLY don't believe this is the correct forum to have the debates about what is and isn't considered 'acceptable' for children.

Bottom line is, if Mattel makes that leap in a thowaway bio like this. They are making a political statement that can and will alienate a large portion of thier customer base. If they do NOT include these elements... they loose NOTHING.

He-man and She-ra ALREADY have a large number of Gay fans. Obvioulsy, there was SOMETHING in the property that they were able to relate to.... WITHOUT the express mentioning of who pairs up with who.
Theres no REASON for them to DO that... and PLENTY of reason NOT to.

If your point is that Mattel, being a corporation that cares only for money, is unlikely to jeopardize their sales in order to create a more inclusive brand--I would agree that you are very probably right.

If you're saying that it is fine that merely mentioning a fictional character is gay would offend a significant portion of MOTU fans--I strongly disagree. It's not. it's ignorant and hurtful.

And I am still confused as to how this discussion keeps veering towards children and what is acceptable for them. Is anyone really arguing that a kid reading in a MOTUC bio that two characters are gay would somehow harm them? Really? Just reading that gay couples exist is damaging?

***?

[He-Boy]

Phantom1592, if this is not the correct forum for this discussion, where is? On ‘gay’ forums everyone is already in agreement. If these types on conversations are constantly pushed ‘somewhere else’ then nothing ever gets addressed; and progress stops. That is why the world is still stuck in the dark ages. We’re only barely ahead of being burnt at the stake.

So many kids could care less about this sort of this thing and wonder why parents get so uptight about it all.

Personally, I think cy-chop is the first example of a gay union - between Roboto and Rokkon:


Everyone needs to stop wasting their time with this conversation. The gay fans see the ridiculous hypocrisy of society and the straight fans see the reality that Mattel is way too conservative to even risk such a venture.

Case dismissed!

[He-Dad]

So many kids could care less about this sort of this thing and wonder why parents get so uptight about it all.

Personally, I think cy-chop is the first example of a gay union - between Roboto and Rokkon:
http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...to01_thumb.jpg http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...ose1_thumb.jpg http://www.itsalltrue.net/resources/motuimages/cyc1.jpg

Everyone needs to stop wasting their time with this conversation. The gay fans see the ridiculous hypocrisy of society and the straight fans see the reality that Mattel is way too conservative to even risk such a venture.

Case dismissed!

This in a nut shell!

[Dr Kain]

Straight romanticism is already present in MOTU and for that matter it's present even in Mickey Mouse cartoons where Minnie Mouse is his girlfriend. What people are protesting against here is gay romanticism.

That summarizes the whole deal. And since this has nothing to do with my question that was about a character's bio, not an idealogical discussion on gay rights (which to my knowledge should go to the Tar Swamp, right?) that's all I am going to say.

I wasn't protesting gay romanticism. I was just saying that it does not matter if a character is gay or not, and that it was a waste of a question. Secondly, gay romanticism seems to be used only to gain media attention, which is another reason why I do not need to know if a character is gay, because then everyone talks about it, and it is only done to increase sales. Do I care that DC turned Alan Scott gay? Nope. However, they used that as a crutch to get the media to advertise their comic just to increase the sales of it (not sure if it worked or not, but I dropped it) rather than just letting it happen. They did the same thing with Batwoman a few years ago, which is why I refuse to read anything Batwoman. And they are now doing it with the new Green Lantern being Muslim, thus, I will not touch the new GL comic.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't believe sex or sexuality should appear in a childrens property at all. Young kids are too young to understand and it only opens up a can of worms. It doesn't matter whether it's heterosexual or homosexual. Let children be children. The problem these days is kids are growing up too fast and not getting the innocent childhood they deserve.

Besides do we really need to place labels on characters anyway? I personally ignore the bios, especially since main characters dying in a childrens property is a no no! I do not need it updated and tailored to an adults perspective of life. Instead I'll go watch a 15+ movie or tv show for that.

So kids aren't allowed to know anything about death? They are just supposed to believe life is completely sugar coated and no one can get hurt or die? This way they can start screaming and crying during an Iron Man movie when they think Tony is going to die just because the heart piece was removed from his chest? No, just no. Gargoyles is a prime example of the finest story telling in a children's cartoon of all time, and people died in that show. A main character was shot and the writers were intelligent enough to use that to teach gun safety to children.

[Inhibitor]

Personally, I think cy-chop is the first example of a gay union - between Roboto and Rokkon:
http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...to01_thumb.jpg http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...ose1_thumb.jpg http://www.itsalltrue.net/resources/motuimages/cyc1.jpg

I don't know... if this were to go on Maury, I'd expect a dog, a toaster and a pair of scissors waiting to hear about the paternity test results.

[Blaster]

I personally think it'd be Amazing to make Netossa and Spinerella lesbians. Why not? This is evidently an adult collectors line, what is Mattel so afraid of? They aren't alienating anyone, the people so against it are going to be selling her off anyway because she's POP, and the one's who are keeping her will love her all the more because we're finally getting confirmation on something we knew all along.

[Berserker79]

Personally I don't need any romantic relationships in MOTU. For me, it's the never ending war & battle between good & evil, nothing more, like I know it since the 80's...

[phantom1592]

Phantom1592, if this is not the correct forum for this discussion, where is? On ‘gay’ forums everyone is already in agreement. If these types on conversations are constantly pushed ‘somewhere else’ then nothing ever gets addressed; and progress stops. That is why the world is still stuck in the dark ages. We’re only barely ahead of being burnt at the stake.

So many kids could care less about this sort of this thing and wonder why parents get so uptight about it all.

The Tar swamp for starters.

What is the The Tar Swamp? Why can't I see it?
The Tar Swamp is for discussion of topics of a political, religious, and/or sexual nature. Beware all those who participate as the Tar Swamp is subject to strict rules and guidelines that must be followed. If you agree to these terms and you would like to be able to view and participate in the Tar Swamp forum, please PM JVS3 a request and you will be added to the Tar Swamp user list.

This topic is honestly ALL three

If you're saying that it is fine that merely mentioning a fictional character is gay would offend a significant portion of MOTU fans--I strongly disagree. It's not. it's ignorant and hurtful.

Which is my point really. Why are you allowed to claim my opinions and religious beliefs as 'ignorant' in the general forum? There are specific rules here about respecting other people's opinions.

Quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to properly respond to such comments WITHOUT offending people. It's a hot button issue on both sides, and people by nature are easily offended.

[MegaGearMax]

I think some fans are far too protective of this franchise, which WILL hold it back.

Transformers has romance and they are robots (Arcee/Hot Rod/Springer, Optimus/Elita-1, Blackarachnia/Silverbolt, Airrazor/Tigatron, Botanica/Rattrap.)! Even G.I. Joe and Star Wars have romance and death in the mythos. TMNT has romance and death as well.

So why should MOTU be exempt, when it has benefited other franchises?

[Orko's Magic Hat]

I think some fans are far too protective of this franchise, which WILL hold it back.

Transformers has romance and they are robots (Arcee/Hot Rod/Springer, Optimus/Elita-1, Blackarachnia/Silverbolt, Airrazor/Tigatron, Botanica/Rattrap.)! Even G.I. Joe and Star Wars have romance and death in the mythos. TMNT has romance and death as well.

So why should MOTU be exempt, when it has benefited other franchises?

I totally agree, I don't get this overprotective-ness this fanbase has. Sure we want to preserve the stories and feelings we felt as kids - and those will always remain, but things have to move on - this story, its characters need to "live" a little - that means, romance and bloodshed. If they die, they die - there is loads of media past and I'm guessing in future relaunches and takes - where the "dead" characters will live again and maybe we will have same sex relationships? who knows?

[chrisware]

The Tar swamp for starters.



This topic is honestly ALL three




Which is my point really. Why are you allowed to claim my opinions and religious beliefs as 'ignorant' in the general forum? There are specific rules here about respecting other people's opinions.

Quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to properly respond to such comments WITHOUT offending people. It's a hot button issue on both sides, and people by nature are easily offended.

I want to respond to your last post, but please understand that I am not trying to offend you or anyone. I will try to be specific and factual--if only to make clearer what I have been trying to say.

I did not realize that any of my comments were being taken as an attack on anyone's religious beliefs. Nearly all my friends are either Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Very few identify themselves as irreligious (though I do). However, none of them have even the slightest problem with someone being gay. In fact, several gay friends consider themselves Christian. I don't think that you, I, or anyone else should assume that religion = anti-gay.

I was disagreeing that a large portion of MOTU fans would be offended--I don't think that's the case. Some, yes. Most, I believe, would not.

I hear what you're saying about the tar swamp--I just don't think this discussion is about politics, religion, or, especially, sex. At least, it shouldn't be. Some members seem to be conflating sex with the mere acknowledgment that gay couples exist. That is just incorrect. It is as ridiculous as suggesting that every time I mention I have a wife I am infusing the general forum with a discussion about sex.

[scott metzger]

Personally I don't need any romantic relationships in MOTU. For me, it's the never ending war & battle between good & evil, nothing more, like I know it since the 80's...

Had MOTU been nothing but that, I would have watched about two episodes of the toon and moved on. Without characters to care about and something you see that is worth fighting for, all you have is a bunch of pointless, meaningless silly fighting. What made me a fan of MOTU for more than two decades was the characters, and the relationships between them are the core of the story. An adoptive father who has to keep the identity of his adoptive daughter's mother a secret, and a mother who sees her child all the time and cannot tell her how much she loves her. A son who is secretly the world's greatest hero, but must play the buffoon and endure the disappointment of his father. A family that lost one of its members to an evil army. A queen who endured long years without her husband thanks to an invasion. A leader of the rebellion who falls for a roguish pirate or a king who falls for a woman from another world. These are the important things in the tale, not just a bunch of battles. It's a big part of the reason the good guys fight, to protect the world for the people they love. That is the heart and soul of MOTU, and what makes it such a compelling tale.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

I think some fans are far too protective of this franchise, which WILL hold it back.

Will or has already?

[krosfyah]

I think some fans are far too protective of this franchise, which WILL hold it back.

Agreed but i believe that it has VERY little to do with sex and relationships it seems more to do with nostalgia, many fans only want to revisit what was and not allow ANY growth (hell you will hear people that don't want a movie or new toon because as they say "IT WON'T BE DONE RIGHT" they know the future and use their powers only to determine the fate of MOTU.

Transformers has romance and they are robots (Arcee/Hot Rod/Springer, Optimus/Elita-1, Blackarachnia/Silverbolt, Airrazor/Tigatron, Botanica/Rattrap.)! Even G.I. Joe and Star Wars have romance and death in the mythos. TMNT has romance and death as well.

So why should MOTU be exempt, when it has benefited other franchises?

As a story I think transformers is pretty idiotic, romance and such make it even more stupid. Don't get me wrong there are elements of TF that I TRULY enjoy, but when they stray too far into 'human' issues I'm taken right out of it. not to say the characters shouldn't be relatable and that the stories shouldn't matter, but outside of wall-e robots in love has always felt stupid to me. (for Wall-e it worked because for some reason Wall-e and eve were different than the other bots. I don't know hard to really determine my point but TF melodrama just rubs me the wrong way. for me TF should be about war sacrifice and such, but tow giant robots getting all gooey eyed, it feels so clunky.

[Tundra_Torque]

I'm sure that someone has brought this up before, but if this is an adult's collector line and you need to be 18 to purchase these products anyway, why can't the bios incorporate more adult material into the storyline - whether that material deals with sexual orientation, violence, death, or other gritty subject mater?

[MegaGearMax]

Agreed but i believe that it has VERY little to do with sex and relationships it seems more to do with nostalgia, many fans only want to revisit what was and not allow ANY growth (hell you will hear people that don't want a movie or new toon because as they say "IT WON'T BE DONE RIGHT" they know the future and use their powers only to determine the fate of MOTU.

Not the "N-word".

As a story I think transformers is pretty idiotic, romance and such make it even more stupid. Don't get me wrong there are elements of TF that I TRULY enjoy, but when they stray too far into 'human' issues I'm taken right out of it. not to say the characters shouldn't be relatable and that the stories shouldn't matter, but outside of wall-e robots in love has always felt stupid to me. (for Wall-e it worked because for some reason Wall-e and eve were different than the other bots. I don't know hard to really determine my point but TF melodrama just rubs me the wrong way. for me TF should be about war sacrifice and such, but tow giant robots getting all gooey eyed, it feels so clunky.

While the idea of robots having relationships is debatable, at least TF has tried those elements. You never commented on the other properties I named...G.I. Joe, TMNT and Star Wars.

I'm sure that someone has brought this up before, but if this is an adult's collector line and you need to be 18 to purchase these products anyway, why can't the bios incorporate more adult material into the storyline - whether that material deals with sexual orientation, violence, death, or other gritty subject mater?

Mattel is a toy company, so that association with children will always keep their franchises from becoming too mature. However, it doesn't stop Hasbro, as they push their limits all the time. Skids and Mudflap called a guy "pubic fro head" and called another guy a *****. Heck, they experimented with G.I. Joe Resolute.

[Tundra_Torque]

Mattel is a toy company, so that association with children will always keep their franchises from becoming too mature. However, it doesn't stop Hasbro, as they push their limits all the time. Skids and Mudflap called a guy "pubic fro head" and called another guy a *****. Heck, they experimented with G.I. Joe Resolute.

This makes sense, but I don't see the harm in pushing the boundaries a little bit. It is marketed to adults, so adults should be able to handle some relatively edgy material, like a character being killed or two characters having a child together.

[Heli88]

One thing to consider is how disappointed you'll be if Netossa and Spinnerella are a couple and they never get around to making Spinnerella.

I mean, sure, it's crazy to suggest that they won't get to her, given the obvious preference for POP in the line so far, but WHAT IF?!?!?

[MegaGearMax]

This makes sense, but I don't see the harm in pushing the boundaries a little bit. It is marketed to adults, so adults should be able to handle some relatively edgy material, like a character being killed or two characters having a child together.

Some fans want MOTU to take them back to an innocent time when they were kids, not grow up along with them with character growth and mature story elements. I think MOTU can do BOTH for each group of fans. The fans who want the mature stuff don't have to pick up the kiddie fare, while the kiddie fans could skip the mature stuff.

[blackiecats]

I think some fans are far too protective of this franchise, which WILL hold it back.

From what? It's a property whose target audience is children. The reason why the 200x MOTU cartoon failed was because it was geared towards the adult fan too much and seemed just too dark and serious in nature. We get a reboot like that again and it will fail once again. I believe in sticking to the origins of what made the property popular. Adding new things is arrogant and disrespectful of the original. WB did just that with the new ThunderCats, to the point of even making a good character evil!

Lets keep the characters how they were originally intended and not let our 'adult' minds go overboard.

[Whiplash7]

Love and war. If we take out the love, and leave the war, is that a wonderful example to set for all the poor little children (most of whom will never even hear of motu anyway)?

[cbomb23]

From what? It's a property whose target audience is children. The reason why the 200x MOTU cartoon failed was because it was geared towards the adult fan too much and seemed just too dark and serious in nature. We get a reboot like that again and it will fail once again. I believe in sticking to the origins of what made the property popular. Adding new things is arrogant and disrespectful of the original. WB did just that with the new ThunderCats, to the point of even making a good character evil!

Lets keep the characters how they were originally intended and not let our 'adult' minds go overboard.

I'd like to disagree what killed the 200X line and series was MTV moving the series all over, hell I never knew when it was on. Also the toyline tanked because the only thing on the shelves were He-Man and Skeletor variants because of horrible case breakdowns for whatever reasons? (retailers wanting main characters on shelves like Batman/Superman, or Mattel deciding just to push those variants) Iv'e seen where people said the ratings were fine for 200X but without the toyline Mattel didn't want to continue it?

Please see Star Wars Clone Wars, Young Justice, and Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes as examples of Cartoons that are successful in getting children and adults interested in the same cartoons. Easily the complexity of the stories and continuous storyline keeps adults interested while the characters, "coolness", battles, etc. keep kids interested. While Avengers is getting cancelled (which is disappointing) but that is only to replace it with a more movie based team toon to match the movie's unreal success.

[Barezz]

I don't think that 200X failed because it had "adult" elements. The Batman cartoon made by WB certainly had adult elements to it, and it sure seemed to do just fine, when compared to "Super Friends" or other Batman cartoons that were around when most of us were kids.

The old cartoon did also not have to contend with Cable TV like Cartoon Network, and even things like VHS were really just getting going around that time. You typically had basic TV programs and not a lot of other options back in those days. Plus the MOTU toyline was a much bigger success than the 200X line for various reasons.

So yea, I don't think it was due to "adult" elements (which i don't think the 200X show went overboard on). If anything it was probably hurt more from half of the first few episodes being two guys twirling their swords around like they were going to toss a baton.

[The All American]

I'm a nostalgia guy, and I like that MOTU for the most part doesn't have any definitive continuity. Probably in the minority here, but I'd rather it stay that way in terms of Classics. Totally new versions of MOTU are fine (I'll probably just ignore them), but leave vintage where it's at. That's why I love the Classics line, it's bringing back a piece of the past - the style and characters we grew up with. There's a reason we all fell in love with the property so many years ago, and Classics reminds us of that. At this point, there should never be just one over encompassing continuity for MOTU.

I have no problem with anyone wanting any character to be what they want. I find it fascinating sometimes hearing stories on here on who the heroes and villains were for some kids. My older sister and I used to create some stories that were far out when we were kids, I think we even had Blade and Double Trouble hooking up. But why is it necessary to have every character have some elaborate tied in back story? For continuity sake? Because we can't come up with something better? Do we need Mattel to tell us what happens? That's why I don't care for the bios, they make the MOTU world much smaller, and in the end, makes more fans angry, I think. Whether Netossa is with Spinnerella, Clamp Champ, or is just an Etherian nun, that should be left up to the imagination of the fan. I love MOTU (and MOTUC) because it's all about imagination. I'm all for new characters, and I realize the bios help justify that (and I thank Mattel for this line), but in the end, best just to ignore the bios - you're probably not going to be wowed or satisfied like you were back when you were young. The only bios that should count are the ones that you come up with in your own imagination. That's the magic of MOTU.