HE-MAN/THUNDERCATS
CURRENT MINI-SERIES
Issue #3 of 6
"Part Third: Swords and Sorrows"
Script: Rob David & Lloyd Goldfine
Art & Cover: Freddie E. Williams II
Colour: Jeremy Colwell
The ThunderCats team up to combat a new foe: Skeletor! And as young King Lion-O battles this evil from another world, he distracts Skeletor from an important fight against Mumm-Ra. With the Power of Grayskull hanging in the balance, who can possibly turn the tide of battle?
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At your local comic shop,
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The Preview of He-Man/Thundercats #3 is here! Exclusive courtesy by Nerdist!
http://nerdist.com/lion-o-takes-on-s...usive-preview/
And the Thundercats enter the game!
Against a Skeletor who has just combined Mumm-Ra's power with the Power Sword's and his own!
The eternal conflict between Good and Evil!
Amazing teamwork (and amazing artwork by the team of Williams and Collwell as the Sword of Power at Skeletor's hands and the Sword of Omens clash) by the Thundercats in these preview pages by the way. Cheetara and Panthro especially are on fire!
So this Wednesday, December 21, prepare for Skeletor vs the Thundercats battle!
The mysterious narrator must be from the Masters's part this time. I have a feeling that must be the Sorceress. But it's only my personal guess
Last edited by granamyr80; January 12, 2017 at 07:51pm.
Art, visuals and battle scenes I continue to love! The dialogue I have lowered my expectations and am learning to deal with. Overall I'm less engaged with this series than MOTU Ongoing and Eternity War (and it could just be where I'm at in life, mood and interests too right now I suppose). Skeletor with the chest cross and Power Sword I'm not really digging design-wise.
Kesmai, the dialogue here hasn't something very different from previous incarnations. Skeletor's cheesy lines are typical of his 80's cartoon counterpart. Or do we forgot how Skeletor was talking to the Filmation cartoon and his "insults". Watch this video for example:Originally Posted by Kesmai
Skeletor sounds no different here. It's useless to say that he never was talking like that. At any case back then, when we were discussing about where the comic should go after the Eternity War, how many fans they were complaining, wanting a less serious more cheesy/fun comic? A lot of fans. There is still the thread somewhere. Others wanted a Filmation based MOTU comic. Personally i would prefer the Epic Fantasy narration of the previous DC MOTU run, and i supported and i' m still supporting it. The problem is that even this was not very acceptable from many fans. Now in this mini series, they changed the tone of the dialogue, for making sounded a bit more cheesy, while keeping the more serious moments storytime wise. Basically combining funny and serious, in an attempt to appeal to everyone. That's how what i get from it. And they brought back the Classics designs. I believe that DC and Mattel are trying to understand desperately, what it's the best solution for the MOTU franchise? What it could work better? Or if you like, what would have the biggest acceptance from the fans to casual readers. And this is not an easy task.The recent news from Sony and the hypothetical Barbie vs He-Man movie shows to me, that perhaps no one knows what exactly to do with MOTU. And the continous script changing is another clue. Is MOTU a comedy, is some kind of silly 80's cartoon, is an Epic/Heroic High Fantasy franchise, it belongs to Sword & Sorcery genre, it should be serious or a kind of parody? Is it a kid's franchise so the stories's mentality should be adapted only for them? Can be more serious and continue as more epic storyline, with much better developed and interesting characters? Is just pure nostalgia without any other development or to discuss futher? These are some of the questions that must face each creator that will have the "luck" to be on board with MOTU. In few words it's not easy to deal with it. Because everyone has a different opinion about it. And for sure it's not easy task for any writer, that will come on board to work like this, because there is no simple answer. It's not pure case or just unfortunate coincidence that Sony has changed 10 writers so far, and yet they don't have an acceptable, much less a definitive script. And from what i saw it's not that Mattel is going to bother for a lot more time. They already gave up the adult collector lines completely, they stopped pubblishing the bios and the mini comics, instead of just trying to improve them. And i have the feeling this is probably going to be the case for the DC comics as well. This Monday's solicitation may will be the last we get. And this mini series are probably the last comics we will get for God knows how long, until the next one, or if ever again, unless miracilously a MOTU movie come out and become suddenly a huge hit, which is extremely doubtful. So let's enjoy these comice for what little time they will be still around.
As for Skeletor's chest cross, well this is not the 1st time that he appear like that. Actually in the cover of He-Man: The Eternity War #10, Skelly was not looking very different:
He may not appeared like that, inside the issue, but the idea was there. Later the Grayskull/Eternity powered up Skeletor came out with the horned design of issue #13 and #14 of the Eternity War. In the pages we saw so far it's not that Skeletor's design changed drammatically to something similar from what we saw twice in the previous DC MOTU run. He is exactly the same Skeletor only with the cross instead of the crossbones, in order to remind at the reader, that he has the Power of Grayskull.
As for the Power Sword, let's not forget a very important detail. Skeletor was the first that actually wield the Power Sword in the very first mini comic:
And he used it against Superman in the first DC crossover issue from 1982:
Something that i noticed from the preview's pages is Lion-O's reference about Skeletor as a demon. I don't know if in this storyline Skeletor is still Keldor, or Lion-O's comment was because of his lack of knowledge that Skeletor is Keldor, but at any case Skeletor in the first stories (first mini comics and Filmation cartoon) was indeed an extradimensional demon. Perhaps this is a nod to this origin, or perhaps is simply how Lion-O believes what Skeletor is. But it was a long time ago, since Skeletor was called like that.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 17, 2016 at 09:21pm.
Skeletor has always been a demon. Even as the dead Keldor merged with one. Keldor was bad, but after his death and possession, he is infinitely worse.
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That's true. Good explanationSkeletor has always been a demon. Even as the dead Keldor merged with one. Keldor was bad, but after his death and possession, he is infinitely worse..
Appreciate, all the info and explanation Granamyr
I do understand the reasonings but all I can say is they are just not speaking to me. No different than if the dialogue in a TV show is not my cup of tea. 2.5 issues in and I'm trying to like but it's not happening. Just not my favorite and yes, I prefer Dan Abnett's high fantasy scripting in the past MOTU comics.
I understand what are you saying my friend. And again i' m with you about Dan Abnett's run. I still believe it's the best MOTU story we ever had and we ever will. The problem is that was just us, and a number of other fans too. But back then, when the Eternity War was about to end, and then when it has been ended, how many we rise our voices to support it? You, me and a dozen of other fans again. The other posts were asking about reboot, or a Filmationesque comic, or how they don't like Abnett's run or the Eternity War because it was "too epic", and that "the MOTU are not LOTR", and "better back to self contained stories", instead of epic proportions battles, without dying and real stakes etc. There was also the deep hate for the various redesigns and so on.Appreciate, all the info and explanation Granamyr
I do understand the reasonings but all I can say is they are just not speaking to me. No different than if the dialogue in a TV show is not my cup of tea. 2.5 issues in and I'm trying to like but it's not happening. Just not my favorite and yes, I prefer Dan Abnett's high fantasy scripting in the past MOTU comics.
Now the creative team, which let's not forget are the same that wrote the story for the Eternity War, decided to end the previous storyline and they tried to change things in order to satisfy the fans of the old designs, and give back some of the 80's corny dialogue, while they keep some of the more serious and epic stuff when it comes to battles. My guess is that they did this, in order to satisfy the nostalgia driven fans. They said in SDCC that they would try to be closer at the 80's. Then it comes the crossover, and those voices that were asking about these changes are silenced, and instead new complains from the fans of the previous run are rising, while old school fans want a He-Man that will not open a nose in a fight and so on. This is a no win situation, and to a certain level i start to understand Mattel and why the MOTU supporters inside the company are so few. Which writer, creator, designer, director or a manager, would want to deal with such kind of messy situation? Probably no one. It's not that DC (and Dark Horse in the first 3 Classics mini comics) didn't try to put big names in the comic, before the current crossover. Tim Seeley, James Robinson, Mike Costa, Keith Giffen and Dan Abnett are not small names in the comic book industry. But at the end didn't change much. For this reason perhaps issue #6 of the crossover, will be the end for the MOTU comics. And i can't say that i would blame them if they will do so.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 18, 2016 at 12:01pm.
I also didn't care for Keith Giffen's scripting dialogue (as did many here) before Dan Annett came on board on #7 of the Ongoing.
Some spots of this crossover miniseries are hitting notes of the cartoons and others are just bad corny and out of character. IMO
Everyone has their own preferences of course
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And don't get me wrong, I love Rob David and Lloyd Goldfine's overall story writing in the MOTU world. And Rob David did a great job scripting the dialogue in issue #19 of the Ongoing series. Whether a veteran comic dialogue scripter could have appealed to me more with this content/story, I don't know.
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Well said! I was a big fan of the new high fantasy take and very fine with the redesigns. Others not so much and that is fine again we all have our own tastes, preferences and what speaks to us.
Unfortunately He-Man combined with ThunderCats, classic nostalgia and heavy promotion on the Internet has not resulted in sales numbers that blow away numbers from the past series. I blame this more on a timing thing and more competition for our time these days compared to the past. This also doesn't mean these current sales numbers are a failure. The first issue sold its first printing so it defied expectations no matter how high they were.
Last edited by Kesmai; December 18, 2016 at 12:08pm.
Again i completely agree with you my friend here. I love the High Fantasy feeling of Dan Abnett's run, and will always be my favorite MOTU run. Not objection here.
The idea of the crossover with the Thundercats was really good. At least much better from Sony's dreadful one to combine He-Man with Barbie. But we have to understand that both He-Man and Thundercats are fading long time now. Perhaps Thundercats have more fans and better chances since they are owned by WB/DC, and they had a cartoon reboot recently, while He-Man has the last revamp almost 13 years ago and is almost forgotten now. But for being honest i didn't see much of internet promotion either. Heck this crossover didn't even have an interview before the day of its release, like every other new comic out there. And many still don't know that this crossover exists. From a sales point of view are compatible to the crossover with DC Universe, which had far more popular and better known characters. So i guess are decent. And even if i believe that Thundercats will continue especially if the rumours are true, MOTU possibly will end with issue #6 of the crossover. The previous DC MOTU storyline has been concluded. If this standalone based on a more nostalgia driven story can't work either, i believe that this is the end.
I agree again with you about this. But even Giffen's run has its fans, absurd as may sound. I was discussing with another fan from Italy a year ago, and he was telling me that loved Giffen's "sense of humor", and hated Abnett's lack of it from his writing to the point that he droppped the series before the Eternity War started. What i can say, It may be the exception, but apparently even Giffen had his followers.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 18, 2016 at 02:21pm.
What are the ThunderCats continuation rumors?
Something that Gail Simone hinted in a twitter post at September if i' m not wrong, when she was asked about the subject of her new ongoing and she said that it was going to be about "thunder" and "cats". But she didn't talk about it since then. So it could be just a rumor or the plans changed. Who knows?
And here is the big question. Because when it comes to MOTU it's difficult to judge what is out of character (leaving out Thundercats since personally i don't have such expose like MOTU).
Taking He-Man for example. Judging the characterization in base of which version? The barbarian mini comic "Goddess may forgive you because i will not" He-Man? The Filmation "what's going on" happy and immature Prince Adam who could argue with Cringer about a transformation? The 200X scrawny teenager Adam? The deadly serious and well developed mature King Adam from the Eternity War? They are completely different, which makes quite impossible any attempt to say what defines exactly the out of character moments. In the crossover's case, Adam as Prince is the typical goofy Filmation Adam from what we saw so far. And as He-Man is the typical barbarian mini comic version.
Same with Skeletor. In the old cartoon he was a comical villain. Then in the 87's movie and forward he turned to a superb Shakesperean character and actual threat. In the crossover he is a combination of both these versions. He is still the villain that insults his allies and enemies, but also a serious threat. He is not different from any other Skeletor version. Still power hungry, still after Grayskull, still manipulating and backstabbing potential competitors and allies.This is typical Skeletor.
As for the other MOTU characters they didn't have enough panel time so far to say that are behaving out of character either.
The problem with the characterization of the MOTU characters are these multiple versions, sometimes so different and conflicted that it's difficult to say if they are the same characters (Teela for example has changed many times looks and behaviours). At the end depends of which version we are familiar with or we prefer to use as a standard, which is pretty much subjective. For example i gave to friend of mine that knew He-Man only by the Filmation cartoon to read, not long time ago, the issue #7 of Eternity War. When he read Skeletor's dialogue he said to me: "When Skeletor became so serious?". So the characterizations on MOTU depends from which version we are exposed to or we loved more.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 18, 2016 at 02:08pm.
Ohhh that... I think it was also a strong possibility of the revival of the female superhero, Thunder.
I suppose so, that it could be that too.
But many fans speculated that it could be a Thundercats ongoing. Perhaps as part of DC's attempt to revive the properties owned by Warner Bros, like they are doing currently with Hanna Barbera franchises.
Reminding that tomorrow will be on sale the 3rd issue of the He-Man/Thundercats crossover
You can buy the physical copy from your local comic book shop, or the digital one from Comixology:
https://www.comixology.com/He-Man-Th...xpc3Qvc2VyaWVz
The battle scenes continue to be SPECTACULAR!!!
This has got to be my favorite dialogue in the entire series so far.
"Why's Dragstor riding on Night Stalker?" "Cause he can."
panthro.jpg
Just saying.....
I believe that this issue had everything. Action, comedy and a fantastic character interaction and moment at the end of the issue.
The fight between Skeletor and the Thundercats has been handled perfectly. It was intense with a continous non stop action, and changing of scenes and victors., from the Thundercats's excellent teamwork, to Skeletor's fighting skills and superb magical abilities, to the great Sword fight between Lion-O and the Lord of Destruction.
The interaction between Mumm-Ra and Skeletor was hilarious. It's one of the most funny interactions between 2 Master Villains, WHO at the end are forced to join forces in order to get out from a "difficult" situation. And when these 2 are teaming up, then this can't be good for the heroes.
But the highlight of the issue in my opinion is the interaction between Lion-O and King Randor at the end of the issue. I don't want to spoil it, but it's one of the most powerful moments in the comics pubblished by DC. It's about the absolute respect of one hero to another, (something that rarely you can see on today's comics where the heroes mostly hate each other). It's about a father's love for his child, and the worry of a son to live at his father's expectations. Fantastic moment for Lion-O. Fantastic moment for Randor. And a Cringer that doesn't say a word but his reaction can tear your heart. Kudos to Freddie Williams and Jeremy Colwell for capturing with their art this moment. Even the smaller detail with Lion-O's conforting hand on Cringer have been handled perfectly. Great job.
I may review it in the next days this issue for not spoiling it further to those who haven't read it yet, but in my humble opinion has been the best so far of the crossover, especially for this moment at the end.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 21, 2016 at 02:05pm.
Further things I noticed
I guffawed so hard at that bit! That said, I totally get and respect what Kesmai was saying earlier regarding the dialogue, but for me personally I'm enjoying the quasi-Filmation/-MYP banter-filled dialogue that granamyr80 referenced. [NB: I also enjoyed Abnett's scripting work, and had no trouble accepting the more serious dialogue there. I think there's room for both. Where I, personally, start to lose it is when too many ordinary and/or crass bits get tossed in (e.g., practically anything Teela uttered through Giffen's best-forgotten, tone-deaf pen--particularly the loathsome bit about mages giving her gas at the Sorceress' funeral!--and even Mumm-Ra's usage of "jackass" in this crossover issue, written by David/Goldfine).This has got to be my favorite dialogue in the entire series so far.
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...3&d=1482315366
Dialogue critiques aside, I thoroughly enjoyed this issue--and I have the previous ones--and look forward to its continuance.
Dark Legacies
MVC Comics - Collected Info About the Comics
To the Powers that Be: Give me a proper King Miro figure, please!!
https://bigcomicpage.com/2016/12/21/...s-3-dc-comics/
This is exactly how I feel about this issue and the series in general.
There are other reviews though, as well:
http://www.weirdsciencedccomics.com/...-3-review.html
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...cats-3-review/
http://lylesmoviefiles.com/2016/12/2...k-of-122116/5/
http://www.planeteternia.de/cgi-bin/...D=3148&sprID=1
Kesmai, when comes to MOTU there are many ways to have a story (yes you have barbarians and wizards, but also elements and characters that in theory don't fit at all, like cowboys and ninjas). Remember the debacle about the possible MOTU movie's tone? To be closer to the Lord of the Rings/Games of Thrones or to the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Marvel's action comedy style movies in general? Mattel experimented the first way with Dan Abnett's run. Now they are experimenting with the 2nd way.And can't say that i blame them. Dan Abnett's run was awesome but the sales may have not been what Mattel expected or wanted to be. The Fantasy genre is just not very popular nowdays. So they are trying using as indication something that has been proved extremely popular, especially when comes to current comics. Nonetheless it's not that this issue didn't have some serious and great moments (especially the one that i referred above).
Again Dan Abnett's run was superb. But DC now has Dan on more popular books than He-Man or Thundercats, and he couldn't work anymore with the franchise. Besides his storyline has been concluded, with the end of the Eternity War. Things must go on.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 21, 2016 at 07:02pm.
The Mumm-Ra and Skeletor banter was polarizing. On one hand I was laughing at the slapstick silliness and at the same time cringing that this not how these characters talk and saying things like "jackass"
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Granamyr80, I am literally cringing at the dialogue in places. It's a love/hate relationshipThat review states exactly what I'm feeling. Logically I understand what you're saying.
Last edited by Kesmai; December 21, 2016 at 08:49pm.
Openhaimer's Skeletor used a lot "modernized" expressions for his time though:The Mumm-Ra and Skeletor banter was polarizing. On one hand I was laughing at the slapstick silliness and at the same time cringing that this not how these characters talk and saying things like "jackass"
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Granamyr80, I am literally cringing at the dialogue in places. It's a love/hate relationship
For example when Evilseed first appeared, Skeletor's comment was "who that cabbage think he is". I mean come on "cabbage" on an alien planet???
Or when Skeletor threaten Whiplash "to turn him in a suitcase". I guess that "leather suitcases" don't fit much as expression or object to a medieval based society.
Or when he called Evil-Lyn "a boob".
My point is that in this comic, are having this version of Skeletor in mind, but using more current expressions. Skeletor was used as that kind of character before. The villain yes, but with more comical elements. Skeletor talking like that, i can definitely seeing him, because the Filmation Skeletor was very similar to that. It's like the difference between the Burton's Joker and Nolan's Joker. Both different takes of the same villain the one more of a comedian, while the other deadly serious. Now who is the fan favorite Skeletor it's another story, but the "i' m not nice" Filmation Skeletor has a lot of fans (because for many he is the only exposure they have, of the character. The other versions with the better developed, 3-dimensional and more serious Skeletor, like the mini comic, Langella's, 200X or the EW are less known unfortunately).
For Mumm-Ra i can't say, though i believe that he was more serious as a villain from Filmation Skeletor, so i think in his case is less suitable this kind of talking. Nonetheless their banter was entertaining, especially considering the situation that they have been forced to be "stuck" with.
Apart from that though Skeletor/Mumm-Ra banter, i believe that the Thundercats, Lion-o, and King Randor have been handled really well. Especially the dialogue between Lion-O and Randor at the end of the issue.
Last edited by granamyr80; December 21, 2016 at 09:29pm.
I just finished the issue, and I enjoyed it very much.
I have to say though, that before I even came on to the Forum to talk about it I KNEW that a lot of the discussion was going to be about the dialouge. Personally, I don't care either way about the dialogue, but it was obvious reading it that there was an attempt to do something a little bit more on that front - and it's walking like a newborn foal.
In any case, I'm still loving this series as a whole. A big part of that love is the accuracy in the depictions of power levels. Now, I'm a MOTU fan first and foremost. Thundercats is cool and all, but it was never in my top levels of fandom. That being said, even I will admit that overall the Thundercats were fighting in a weight class that the Masters typically did not. He-Man alone could get there once in a while, but generally speaking, his conflicts didn't normally require the same amount of effort that the 'cats had to put into things.
The fight in this issue drove that home even more! A jacked up Skeletor with the Sword of Power and Mumm-Ra's energy?! No wonder it was the Thundercats who were needed to get the Sword back! I've not seen a more formidable team. IMHO, just the 4 of them (and Snarf) did what all the Heroic Masters COMBINED wouldn't have been able to do. They move faster, their weaponry is ultra-versatile, they're experts in both their chosen fields and power sets, and their teamwork has always been shown to be their greatest strength - exactly what we saw in this issue. Put together a team of ANY 5 Heroic Masters, and Skeletor mops the floor with them.
I think I said something similar in my post about the first issue. Mumm-Ra is an immensely powerful foe. If it wasn't for Skeletor's meddling, Mumm-Ra technically had He-Man defeated within one issue!
What I hope to see moving forward is just how high the threat levels can go, since regardless of my opinions of the abilities of the Heroic Masters vs. the Thundercats, He-Man is still the Most Powerful Man in the Universe! In fact, this issue's cliffhanger shows me that's exactly where things are headed. The Thundercats may operate in a different weight class, but He-Man, the Power of Grayskull, and the world of Eternia are areas where the themes and the story approach infinite class.
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Mumm-Ra has a way of losing his arrogant and domineering speech patterns when he is struggling or being humbled. I don't have immediate examples off the top of my head, but I do seem to recall him resorting to more colloquialisms at times of stress (or tenderness toward Ma-Mutt). For him to use the term "jackass" as he's struggling against Skeletor doesn't seem too off. It just shows how hard he's fighting.
Also, I agree with you about the exchange between Lion-O and Randor. Beautiful.
Orko: It's like the Sorceress said: sometimes, the ones who seem the worst, need our help the most.
He-Man: You're learning.
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