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Thread: Mattel uses PMS Cool Gray 2C instead of White--"White looks unfinished"

  1. #51
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    And that's the real reason; shading is a second paint application, and that increases cost. Making it gray to begin with saves on the second paint app, and THAT is why the gray tones are used. The white only looks "unfinished" if there is no shading.

    Another cost cutting decision disguising itself as a "design choice."
    And if this is the truth then I count this as another case of blatant dishonesty on Mattel's part.

    Mattel, Mattel, always spinning spinning spinning things.

  2. #52
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    How is it dishonest? They are talking about various lines, here. Not all of Mattel lines have the same budgets at MOTU. They are just stating a fact. For some lines, shading isn't a possibility at all.

    Sorry, I just think it's silly that even if Mattel gives a very specific, straightforward answer it's called "spin."

  3. #53
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Then why is BP She-Ra, Sorceress, Teela & TOD Sorceress so white, even if they are not pure white, which all but BP She-Ra are not, they are soft shades of grayish white....Frosta the one figure that should have at least the white of Sorceress is pure gray....What the hell?

    Response and answer or not, the answer absolutely makes no sense.
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  4. #54
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Sorry, I just think it's silly that even if Mattel gives a very specific, straightforward answer it's called "spin."
    'Tis only straightforward if 'tis true. Would one call the explanation of Stinkor's reversed arms "straightforward" after seeing the same exact thing happen to Frosta (an admitted mistake) a few months later?

    It's hard to accept something from people who have been caught spinning and outright lying to us multiple times; suspicion becomes almost a default setting when the folks telling you something have no credibility whatsoever.
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  5. #55
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    'Tis only straightforward if 'tis true. Would one call the explanation of Stinkor's reversed arms "straightforward" after seeing the same exact thing happen to Frosta (an admitted mistake) a few months later?

    It's hard to accept something from people who have been caught spinning and outright lying to us multiple times; suspicion becomes almost a default setting when the folks telling you something have no credibility whatsoever.
    Yes, and we don't know if it was true or not. Yes, Mattel has made mistakes. And yes, I think it's good that people are on their toes. But let's look at what you have here.

    1. A representative of Mattel who has no tie to MOTUC at the moment (that we know of, at least) delivers some insight into their thought process about an action figure not related to MOTUC at all.

    2. It's re-posted here, with the assumption that it's a Mattel policy, rather than a DCUC policy (and that's not a knock on MGM, as he may be right, but it's an assumption... different lines have different design teams).

    3. People start saying this directly relates to Frosta, even though—as pointed out—there have been other figures where this clearly was not the case.

    4. People start saying this is "Frosta" "spin" when the answer was not directly related to the former (nor MOTUC as a whole) and therefore can hardly be "spin" when it was simply giving insight into the process. It's not like it would be cheaper to mold in this rather than white! So it's clearly a design choice. If you don't like it, fine. But it doesn't make it spin.

    That's all I'm saying. There's a point where if people start banging the same drum over and over, even if said drum should perhaps not be drummed in this particular instance, where it starts to become white noise. If anything, this just highlights why it'd be much simpler if Mattel broke of all communication to the collector community.

    I really don't mean this as an indictment. I totally understand why some collector's feel this way... it's just an observation and, hopefully, something to think about.

  6. #56
    Heroic Warrior Balthus Dire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    That's all I'm saying. There's a point where if people start banging the same drum over and over, even if said drum should perhaps not be drummed in this particular instance, where it starts to become white noise.
    I think you mean "PMS Cool Gray 2C" noise.

  7. #57
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthus Dire View Post
    I think you mean "PMS Cool Gray 2C" noise.
    Bwa ha ha.

  8. #58
    Heroic Warrior RocketPunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    1. A representative of Mattel who has no tie to MOTUC at the moment (that we know of, at least) delivers some insight into their thought process about an action figure not related to MOTUC at all.

    2. It's re-posted here, with the assumption that it's a Mattel policy, rather than a DCUC policy (and that's not a knock on MGM, as he may be right, but it's an assumption... different lines have different design teams).
    Yes, but this issue was occurring when Bill was working on MOTUC, and it's still happening now. He also states that this grey is used "for adult collector product". Now I may be wrong, but I think he means every line sold on Matty, not just DC.

  9. #59
    Heroic Warrior Fug-Lee-Faces's Avatar
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    I didn't read this whole thread and I'm sure it's already been said, but WHAT A DUMB DESIGN CHOICE. I have never seen a white paint app and thought "Wow, that looks unfinished." If anything, that dull gray looks like a primer and looks unfinished. If a figure calls for white, USE WHITE!!!

    GAWD that Matty design team needs to get fired. I appreciate the honest answer, but what a bunch of clowns. Same design team that brought us reversed forearms that "pop" more.


  10. #60
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    What a bunch of BS. They use the grey because it's CHEAPER. Hasbro does the same thing with a Gray or Off-color 'creamy' whites instead of a true white. The more premium Japanese line do the same molds in true white and they look much, MUCH better because standards are higher in their market.

    They use Grey because it's cheaper - That's the only true reason.

    Do they still expect us to trust them with Castle Grayskull with this sort of deceitful mentality?

  11. #61
    Make Prahvus please!! marndt8448's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JafariStew View Post
    My new car is color "bright white", & it looks awesome.
    Apparently your car looks 'unfinished', not awesome

  12. #62
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthus Dire View Post
    I think you mean "PMS Cool Gray 2C" noise.
    I.am.done.


  13. #63
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    Yes, Teela, She-Ra, Uncle Sam, Hawk, Dove, etc all use gray. It has never registered white, especially with white teeth, tampo emblems, and eyes contrasting it. It only made them look more gray.

  14. #64
    Heroic Warrior bamf1980's Avatar
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    I appreciate the upfront and honest answer here, but geeze Louise, i'm okay with my toys looking like toys.

  15. #65
    scaly 2014 Subscriber! Dragonblaster's Avatar
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    If something's supposed to be white, I guess people will expect it to be white...
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  16. #66
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    How is it dishonest? They are talking about various lines, here. Not all of Mattel lines have the same budgets at MOTU. They are just stating a fact. For some lines, shading isn't a possibility at all.

    Sorry, I just think it's silly that even if Mattel gives a very specific, straightforward answer it's called "spin."
    IF and I say IF part of the reason they didn't go with white was because of cost, they didn't give a full answer. In my book, that's dishonest because they know their fan base would not appreciate that. So IF that is true, they spun the reason to try and manipulate our response.

  17. #67
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketPunch View Post
    Yes, but this issue was occurring when Bill was working on MOTUC, and it's still happening now. He also states that this grey is used "for adult collector product". Now I may be wrong, but I think he means every line sold on Matty, not just DC.
    That's why one would naturally assume it applies to MOTUC, especially after seeing the Greying of Frosta, and the overall lack of actual white in the line.
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  18. #68
    HeroicUniter PrinceAdam101's Avatar
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    I am NOT a fan of the gray shade.

    I'm not good at painting figures, and with these MOTUC's costing $22 to $25 I am afraid to paint them myself when I don't know what I am doing. But, even though I bought 4, I feel "stuck" with an imperfect Frosta. The switched forearms don't bother me at all, but the gray shade all over an "ice" figure doesn't look good.

    I don't have a TOD Sorceress yet to compare, but I have also been of the opinion, judging pics of her online, that she seems to need shading on the white. Metallic silver shading would be awesome. Wish I could do that myself....
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  19. #69
    Heroic Warrior Inhibitor's Avatar
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    Another fantastic design decision! They really made it pop!!!

    Now sell to Disney.
    Your support means more research for the Myostatin-challenged.

  20. #70
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamf1980 View Post
    I appreciate the upfront and honest answer here, but geeze Louise, i'm okay with my toys looking like toys.
    Um yeah, toys are toys, even though (depending on personal preference as to which figures) they are great works of art, some better than others...., they are not little people that run around on our shelves despite what Toy Story shows....so....I'm perfectly fine with them so long as they look as good as the money you spend on them....ergo, Frosta should have been white, not grey, I don't care about the hair myself, but her white....should be white, it's not even a dull white, it's not even any shade of white at all....it's friggin grey.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; November 12, 2012 at 04:06pm.
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  21. #71
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    I paint a LOT of miniatures, and what they said makes a lot of sense to me. White is one of the hardest colors to paint and make look 'realistic'. There are lots of websites devoted to JUST that problem. One of the BEST ways..

    1) Base coat white.

    2) Wash in a light gray/cool color

    3) hightlight white again.


    And many times the wash STILL makes things turn out more gray then white. So I can understand the philosophy of 'pure white' looks unfinished. For most of my painting I use White for a primer. I always try to 'dirty it up' a bit, but then it looks TOO dirty and I'm backtracking.. so Yeah, White is a pain to paint.

    We MOTU fans are VERY nitpicky about our washes and highlights and paint aps... We constantly go on about 'adult collectibles' '$30+ cost' and 'whether the paint rivets were painted like the prototype...'

    I see 'going grey' as a legitimate decision to make things look realistic... Especially if they didn't want to go with the three ap method. It's not what "I" would have done... but out of the 3-4 ways of doing it, that was certainly ONE of them. This isn't some massive 'out of left field' goofy thing... Like switching arms to 'make it pop.'

    Again, I never really even noticed how Gray Adora looked till people started talking about it... and I don't remember the forums lighting up back then either. Frosta should have been white... but I ALSO like my figures to look uniform... so I'm a bit torn on it...

  22. #72
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inhibitor View Post
    Another fantastic design decision! They really made it pop!!!

    Now sell to Disney.
    lol I was actually hoping that to happen to Mattel once the rumors started of Disney buying Hasbro.

  23. #73
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    I painted my Filmation Hordak head over black primer, white, and it came out nice, and only a few light coats, nothing gloppy or thick at all....white can be done....especially when it's molded already in that color, like Sorceress & BP She-Ra, no excuses then how it can't look right.
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  24. #74
    Heroic Warrior Inhibitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    lol I was actually hoping that to happen to Mattel once the rumors started of Disney buying Hasbro.
    Yeah, that's exactly why I'm saying it. Considering Hasbro was galaxies ahead of Mattel at being able to push their brands to the next level to start, Disney buying up Mattel would be an incredible boon for Masters.

    Mattel has shown to have very little esteem for this particular property and the customer base is left holding the collection jar. It still blows me away that they couldn't muster the resources to throw together a quick facade sculpt or even an actual sketch from the Horsemen. If they don't have that much faith in MOTU, they don't deserve to keep it. We're holding their hand the entire way on this.
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  25. #75
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    Eh, I'm in the camp that isn't bothered by the greyish white, and at this point I'd rather they NOT change it, as it would make the line inconsistent.

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