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Thread: Issues with the new film

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    Issues with the new film

    I just wanted to post some thoughts about the new film. I am excited but I have a couple of issues.

    First of all, I want to state that I am not expecting anything golden with this film. I have learned from experience that Hollywood is not in the business of satisfying fans, they are more worried about catering to as many people as possible in hopes to make as much money as possible so I am not expecting a super faithful adaption. Given, sometimes in Hollywood there are exceptions but I doubt a MOTU movie will be one of those films that break the mold, even if the the director/writers are passionate about the source material, they still have to go through a a gauntlet of producers and studio execs which tend to drive at ideas that are unfavorable to the fans. Perhaps a popular director that has credibility like Guillermo Del Toro would make an amazing MOTU movie....but then again, even Del Toros "Hellboy" adaption was more or less his version and not extremely faithful to the comic. I just want to state that I am accepting the undeniable reality that while I have nothing against John Chu, we are more or less going to wind up with something like the Transformer films....I am sure the new film won;t be the worse film ever...but nothing spectacular, and fans will likely complain...I guess that last part is always unavoidable though.


    As a personal issue...As I have become older I see no need for Prince Adam these days. I mean, there are 5 or 6 different incarnations of He-Man and some of them don't have Adam....or sort of have Adam or whatever. Aside from the build up we get sometimes as a scene will be intense because Adam needs to hide to transform and of course, the transformation sequence itself, I don't see a real need for him, having him would have to mean they have two actors who have split screen time or some unnecessary CGI, it just lead to complexities. Having He-Man just already be He-Man would be ten times easier for story reasons...you wouldn't have to sit through some origin story without He-man for the first 40 minutes....it could just swing into the story and start introducing the supporting characters with He-Man already doing his thing. If they wanted to, they could even have He-Man have to quest for his harness...which would add to his power and perhaps have to find the power sword, perhaps in the vain of how Legend of Zelda or God of War unfolds...questing for items, whatnot.

    Of course no Adam doesn't mean they can' have characters like Randor or Marlena or Orko or Eternos, these people and places could exist, just without Adam, perhaps He-Man could even be their lost child, that way if the films go beyond a solo movie they could have He-Mans ascension to the throne be a sub plot. I just find it that Adam is the silliest secret identity I have ever seen. It worked fine in the eighties when I was about 3 years old, but seems highly unnecessary now, especially when these cinematic "revamps" of cartoons and comics try to be "grittier" or more practical. I just find how Adam, who already resembles He-Man somewhat, has a sword that looks exactly like He-Mans, (even in the 2002 series, when the hilt was folded....the sword still looked like He-Mans) and if they use the traditional power sword..how does Adam hide it in his shirt and finally the fact they are the only two blonde haired men on the entire planet with giant green tigers...and no one catches on, a bit absurd.


    Finally, and quickly, I want to bring up the fact that I have heard some potential writers for the movies say they want to ditch characters like Orko or Mer-Man because they are campy in the past....that's idiotic, any character can be good if written well. Orko doesn't have to be annoying like he has been..and he already has a great design, just emphasize the long tethered robes with glowing yellow eyes.

    Well, I know I contradicted myself by saying that I am not expecting a faithful adaption and then saying I don't want any Prince Adam somewhat or facilitated my own expectations....but, oh well, inner conflict I guess LOL
    Last edited by WhipTastic; November 24, 2012 at 10:18pm.

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    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    I prefer Adam to He-Man. The less I see He-Man himself, the happier I am. I'm there for the world and the other characters more than I am He-Man (or She-Ra) and too much He-Man means I get to see these other lovely people and the bones of the story less while everything tends to get solved by the magic of He-Man punching stuff. The older I get the less I like He-Man himself and the more I like Adam (who is far more interesting because he isn't enhanced with magic). I'd much rather enjoy the universe I love than watch endless scenes of He-Man punching things or whacking them with his sword until they break or explode. Those are nice in moderation but what we need is a strong story and a lot of that depends on Skeletor.

    The villain motivates and carries most hero stories, even if behind the scenes. It is important to have a decently constructed villain and this is where I believe the movie will fail. Langella was a good Skeletor within the confines of a pretty bad movie. Frank's attention to detail is what elevated his character to the scene-chewing level of awesome he attained. Skeletor has a lot of layers to him that make him interesting, compelling and even sympathetic. Langella knew this and spoke about it in interviews. He took the time to do the research, talked to his kids about who Skeletor was and incorporated things from his own nightmares in his quest to become the character and that's why his portrayal came across as the absolute powerhouse of the movie that elevates it from forgettable to cult classic. If we don't have a decent, believable Skeletor it's not going to end up Masters of the Universe at all-- it's going to end up Skull-Faced Hordak Clone vs Golden Boy Whacker of Stuff in 3D Explosionvision. I can read better fanfic than that.
    Last edited by Machinitess; November 25, 2012 at 12:00am.
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    Loco Motu Vato ehenyo's Avatar
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    I see no reason why Adam could not go on a compelling journey to permanently become He-Man.
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    Heroic Warrior Eternian-King Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehenyo View Post
    I see no reason why Adam could not go on a compelling journey to permanently become He-Man.
    "Excactly." ..(I say in my Schwarzenegger voice.)

    I actualy like the idea that you could just call him He-Man at the right time, but still everyone knows him as the prince Adam.
    I feel that back in Filmation, there was a tiny little development story in every episode, and the transformation was like switching a light bulb.
    My mom was telling me and my brother not to leave lights on, wasting electricity, but I was saying, He-Man does it every time he enters a room.


    ..as far as Hollywood getting it wrong, that will happen.

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    If you lose Adam then you might as well lose "I Have The Power" unless you want him to come off as a rechargeable battery.

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    Heroic Warrior Wolfchild's Avatar
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    Adam going on a quest to permanently become "He-Man" (as a title rather than a name) was the basis of my fan-fic many years ago so I'm all for that version

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    Heroic Warrior Eternian-King Paul's Avatar
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    ..well, now, lets not get to haisty on this 'permenent He-Man' thing.

    I am pretty sure a great magnificant dragon would have the magic to change him back to Adam.

    Especialy if He-Man woke the said dragon from a long 100yr nap or engraciating snooze.
    (Could happen.)

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    Good points. I have some fears of my own on what Hollywood would do to a live action MOTU movie, primarily based on what they have done to other 80s toy films. The G.I.Joe and Transformers movies rely on special effects to compensate for lack of plot. Not to mention those movies are more comedy than anything, as I don't think the writers took the source material seriously.
    But my main concern with MOTU is that they will over emphasize the sci-fi and eliminate the Swords and Sorcery/Fantasy element (like they did in 1987). They'll give Man-At-Arms some super-suit like those ridiculous clown outfits they put on the Joes in G.I.Joe. To put it bluntly, swords and staffs better outnumber guns in MOTU or I will be disappointed.
    But fears aside, I am glad MOTU is getting some big screen treatment. Some things that I think would help make it successful:
    1- Take the time to really develop the different lands of Eternia. Don't make the whole planet a barren wasteland (RE: low budget/cheap sets). I want to see Avion look majestic (think Rivendell at a higher elevation), the Evergreen Forest be lush and green (but haunting at the same time), and Snake Mountain to be really intimidating. And you can't get from one place to another by a 15-minute Wind Raider flight either.
    2- Adam/He-Man and Skeletor should be the primary characters, but not the only characters. Spend some time on the Teela/Sorceress/Man-At-Arms history. Give a sense of sub-plotting within Skeletor's ranks, like the MYP production displayed. Give more personality and backstory to the supporting characters. I may be in the minority, but I liked what MYP did with Fisto.
    3- While no one wants the campiness of Filmation, it was the show that really launched the series. Throw in some Easter Eggs for those of us who are long-time fans, as a nod to the original series. Have a Mount Zagraz or something like that. It won't confuse the teenyboppers that watch it or moviegoers that don't know much about the line's history as it doesn't need to be crucial to the script. Newbies won't care what you call some random mountain. Surely producers and movie execs can't whine over something like that, and little tokens like that earn points with the fanbase.
    4- Don't mention Earth, don't go to Earth, don't acknowledge that Earth even exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhipTastic View Post
    As a personal issue...As I have become older I see no need for Prince Adam these days. I mean, there are 5 or 6 different incarnations of He-Man and some of them don't have Adam....or sort of have Adam or whatever. Aside from the build up we get sometimes as a scene will be intense because Adam needs to hide to transform and of course, the transformation sequence itself, I don't see a real need for him, having him would have to mean they have two actors who have split screen time or some unnecessary CGI, it just lead to complexities. Having He-Man just already be He-Man would be ten times easier for story reasons...
    I'm all for ditching Adam, just like in the '87 movie or the early mini-comics. I don't want He-Man to be reduced to a magical enhancement to overcome obstacles, I want him as a proper character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinitess View Post
    I prefer Adam to He-Man. The less I see He-Man himself, the happier I am. I'm there for the world and the other characters more than I am He-Man (or She-Ra) and too much He-Man means I get to see these other lovely people and the bones of the story less while everything tends to get solved by the magic of He-Man punching stuff. The older I get the less I like He-Man himself and the more I like Adam (who is far more interesting because he isn't enhanced with magic). I'd much rather enjoy the universe I love than watch endless scenes of He-Man punching things or whacking them with his sword until they break or explode. Those are nice in moderation but what we need is a strong story and a lot of that depends on Skeletor.

    The villain motivates and carries most hero stories, even if behind the scenes. It is important to have a decently constructed villain and this is where I believe the movie will fail. Langella was a good Skeletor within the confines of a pretty bad movie. Frank's attention to detail is what elevated his character to the scene-chewing level of awesome he attained. Skeletor has a lot of layers to him that make him interesting, compelling and even sympathetic. Langella knew this and spoke about it in interviews. He took the time to do the research, talked to his kids about who Skeletor was and incorporated things from his own nightmares in his quest to become the character and that's why his portrayal came across as the absolute powerhouse of the movie that elevates it from forgettable to cult classic. If we don't have a decent, believable Skeletor it's not going to end up Masters of the Universe at all-- it's going to end up Skull-Faced Hordak Clone vs Golden Boy Whacker of Stuff in 3D Explosionvision. I can read better fanfic than that.
    Of course Skeletor has to be awesome, however, I feel the movie will have him as just another corny villain. He needs to be portrayed like Dr. Doom.....comic Doom, that is, not movie Doom.

    Having He-Man without Adam doesn't short change the character unless the writers are terrible. Look at characters like Superman and Wonder Woman, they are super all the time and they don't solve every problem they have by punching everything.

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    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhipTastic View Post
    Of course Skeletor has to be awesome, however, I feel the movie will have him as just another corny villain. He needs to be portrayed like Dr. Doom.....comic Doom, that is, not movie Doom.

    Having He-Man without Adam doesn't short change the character unless the writers are terrible. Look at characters like Superman and Wonder Woman, they are super all the time and they don't solve every problem they have by punching everything.
    Sure Clark Kent is super all the time, but he's hiding that he is. I know WW has had secret identities not sure where that stands now. I dislike the Marvel trend of everyone knowing everyone's secret id. what's wrong with high fantasy where we CAN have a magical character. it can still be fun, it can still be written well and it can still appeal to many people.

    I personally like the conflict between he-man and Adam, esp illustrated in "Into the Abyss" where Adam was complaining that he doesn't get to rest. He-Man doesn't get tired but ADAM does. so does being he-man take a toll on Adam? when he turns back is he exhaused based on the energy he expended? it's got so much potential. I like Superman being jealous of Clark Kent and vice versa, I like Bruce Wayne with his facade and being batman unbeknownst to the public. I like Adam wanting to rest, Randor wishing Adam was more like he-man etc there are so many story opportunities given the right writing that adds a TONNE of depth to both characters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Sure Clark Kent is super all the time, but he's hiding that he is. I know WW has had secret identities not sure where that stands now. I dislike the Marvel trend of everyone knowing everyone's secret id. what's wrong with high fantasy where we CAN have a magical character. it can still be fun, it can still be written well and it can still appeal to many people.

    I personally like the conflict between he-man and Adam, esp illustrated in "Into the Abyss" where Adam was complaining that he doesn't get to rest. He-Man doesn't get tired but ADAM does. so does being he-man take a toll on Adam? when he turns back is he exhaused based on the energy he expended? it's got so much potential. I like Superman being jealous of Clark Kent and vice versa, I like Bruce Wayne with his facade and being batman unbeknownst to the public. I like Adam wanting to rest, Randor wishing Adam was more like he-man etc there are so many story opportunities given the right writing that adds a TONNE of depth to both characters.
    I agree that the duality of Prince Adam/He-Man can be interesting. There are episodes from all the animated shows that illustrate this point as well.

    However, the comic book and cartoon based films these days tend to be more "practical" and serious...or at least they try to be. I just think Prince Adam is one of the worst secret identities ever and I just really can't see it being taken seriously.

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    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    To Whip Tastic-- and guess who two of my least favorite superheroes are? Wonder Woman and Superman. They are, in a word, boring. The only time I picked up their books as a kid is because someone I liked was guest-shotting in them. I like power to come with a terrible burden, a price to be paid in some manner or other. Being super all the time with no drawbacks sucks. The greater the power, the greater the suffering should be. Example: I'm fond of the Flash, even though his power never turns off. The Flash can die if someone keeps him away from food for a few hours. His body will start consuming itself because his metabolism is so high (not to mention he had to spend most of his money on food). That is a heavy price to be the fastest man alive. Not to mention all the other inconveniences and penalties his powers bring. He-Man without Adam would require a catastrophic set of flaws to make him palatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Sure Clark Kent is super all the time, but he's hiding that he is. I know WW has had secret identities not sure where that stands now. I dislike the Marvel trend of everyone knowing everyone's secret id. what's wrong with high fantasy where we CAN have a magical character. it can still be fun, it can still be written well and it can still appeal to many people.

    I personally like the conflict between he-man and Adam, esp illustrated in "Into the Abyss" where Adam was complaining that he doesn't get to rest. He-Man doesn't get tired but ADAM does. so does being he-man take a toll on Adam? when he turns back is he exhaused based on the energy he expended? it's got so much potential. I like Superman being jealous of Clark Kent and vice versa, I like Bruce Wayne with his facade and being batman unbeknownst to the public. I like Adam wanting to rest, Randor wishing Adam was more like he-man etc there are so many story opportunities given the right writing that adds a TONNE of depth to both characters.
    Exactly Krosfyah. That's one of my favorite eps, actually.
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    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    I would love it if there was no Adam. Actually, I would love it if the new movie had absolutely nothing in common with the Filmation cartoon at all. Of course, I'm a fan of the original version of MotU as depicted in the first mini-comics. To me, that is the true version. Of course, that's just my opinion.
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    Heroic Warrior Spitfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfchild View Post
    Adam going on a quest to permanently become "He-Man" (as a title rather than a name) was the basis of my fan-fic many years ago so I'm all for that version
    This is the basic hero-quest story archetype. It has been used for many centuries, and its one that will resonate with a broad audience. I think this is a legitimate possibility for the screenplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfchild View Post
    Adam going on a quest to permanently become "He-Man" (as a title rather than a name) was the basis of my fan-fic many years ago so I'm all for that version
    This is the basic hero-quest story archetype. It has been used for many centuries, and its one that will resonate with a broad audience. I think this is a legitimate possibility for the screenplay.

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    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Mark my words, “He-Man” will be a mythological figure that Prince Adam will be “destined” to become. Or something like that. There will be no secret identity. When Adam becomes “He-Man” it will be permanent, but he’ll still be “Adam” at the same time.

    When Variety reported on the new screenwriter in October this is the synopsis they published: A young prince becomes a warrior and sets out to defeat the evil Skeletor and fulfill his destiny as He-Man.

    Sure sounds like they're going down the mythological warrior route to me.

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    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    In those stories the hero is often a deeply flawed character who almost always fails and falls at the end. Even back to the beginning with Gilgamesh-- his loss of his friend Enkidu and the ultimate failure to secure the flower of life from Siduri. Fast-forward to England-- we find very moral Arthur still fails at the end because his standards exceed the capabilities of most mortal men which brings on the destruction of his kingdom. Since the possibility of He-Man failing can't be considered in the mythos (over and over again we see that no one is willing to allow the ultimate failure of He-Man), then he must possess immense flaws (like not overcoming "Adam") or he will be flat and boring. Overcoming "Adam", who has a generous collection of flaws, and becoming He-Man permanently gives me uncomfortable feelings of classic Superman. I think he's less interesting than watching paint peel-- Supes lacks depth. I believe that given history, comics, etc that Adam cannot be overcome without damaging the character and ultimately the story.
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    It's a movie, so it's a whole new canon anyway. Hopefully they just take 7 minutes at the outset to explain Lord of the Rings-style that Eternia is moving on from apocalyptic war that ended when King Grayskull died sending Hordak to Despondos. Put in the story of King Miro's sons - maybe have Keldor mortally wounded abducting Adora from Randor, so he ends up making the offering of Adora to Hordak in exchange for the means to survive.

    I hope this movie doesn't get too bogged down in trying to explain everyone's origin story; that's one thing that I felt added to an already steaming pile of crud that was "GI Joe: Rise of Cobra." It was heartbreaking for me to see that was how Joe Vs. Cobra was introduced to kids in 2009. For MOTU, I think the focus should be on Adam and Keldor. I would just as soon skip past the whole Teela back story, establish from the beginning that she knows she's destined to succeed her mother as the guardian of Castle Grayskull.

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    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    I'm not really sure why origins need to come into this beyond places the story is written from. Any origin lingered over by more than a few lines of dialogue beyond Adam obtaining the sword is too much. You might not even have to show that. IRL we don't know everything about someone we meet at first glance, after all. We also don't need to know someone's whole life history to accept them if the character is written strongly-- look at Frank Langella as Skeletor. We know ZIP about him in that continuity and it doesn't matter because he's written and performed well. I don't think Teela becoming the new sorceress matters in the new film unless there's a plan for the Sorceress to die during the movie. Backstory continuity wise, certainly these things should be figured out, but actual use in the film? No.
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Machinitess View Post
    To Whip Tastic-- and guess who two of my least favorite superheroes are? Wonder Woman and Superman. They are, in a word, boring. The only time I picked up their books as a kid is because someone I liked was guest-shotting in them. I like power to come with a terrible burden, a price to be paid in some manner or other. Being super all the time with no drawbacks sucks. The greater the power, the greater the suffering should be. Example: I'm fond of the Flash, even though his power never turns off. The Flash can die if someone keeps him away from food for a few hours. His body will start consuming itself because his metabolism is so high (not to mention he had to spend most of his money on food). That is a heavy price to be the fastest man alive. Not to mention all the other inconveniences and penalties his powers bring. He-Man without Adam would require a catastrophic set of flaws to make him palatable.

    Haha...yeah, I just mentioned Superman and Wonder Woman as they were naturally the first off the top of my head. You get my meaning though, tons of character have their powers all the time and are able to be written well.

    Its not that I dislike the Adam/ He-Man dichotomy, its just,....as I have previously stated, see that these movies these days try to appeal on a more practical, serious level and I find the Prince Adam identity to be kind of silly. I also can't imagine a bunch of transformation sequences in every (if there is more than one) film. I mean, the first one will certainly be epic...but more than one....nah.

    On an unrelated note, I actually find Supes and Wonder Woman to be incredibly boring as well, but I blame the DC writers for making them ridiculously strong and powerful...this, is another story though.

    You might have misinterpreted what I meant when I said "I want him to be He-Man all the time, no Adam" I don't mean I want him to be pushing planets or anything, and punching people into space. I would just like him to be really strong. Nothing too crazy. He needs to be challenged.

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    Plundor Promoter He-Dad's Avatar
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    I really like this idea suprisingly! It would appease a lot of fans and still be a popcorn movie for the casual movie goer. I hope they go this route although I have a feeling it may be expecting too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylde Weezle View Post
    It's a movie, so it's a whole new canon anyway. Hopefully they just take 7 minutes at the outset to explain Lord of the Rings-style that Eternia is moving on from apocalyptic war that ended when King Grayskull died sending Hordak to Despondos. Put in the story of King Miro's sons - maybe have Keldor mortally wounded abducting Adora from Randor, so he ends up making the offering of Adora to Hordak in exchange for the means to survive.

    I hope this movie doesn't get too bogged down in trying to explain everyone's origin story; that's one thing that I felt added to an already steaming pile of crud that was "GI Joe: Rise of Cobra." It was heartbreaking for me to see that was how Joe Vs. Cobra was introduced to kids in 2009. For MOTU, I think the focus should be on Adam and Keldor. I would just as soon skip past the whole Teela back story, establish from the beginning that she knows she's destined to succeed her mother as the guardian of Castle Grayskull.

  22. #22
    Mightiest Mortal Captain Marvel's Avatar
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    For a first movie I think Teela being the Sorceress's daughter could be skipped altogether; it seems to me the necessary parts of Teela's background are that she is Captain of the Palace Guard, the daughter of Man-At-Arms, and she's Duncan's adopted daughter. You could leave out that Teela is adopted but leaving it in retains an excellent potential story hook for a sequel, and it's something that could be established with a single line early in the movie.

    A sequel might even use the mystery of Teela's background as a major component in the story. For example, such a scenario might be combine elements of the Filmation episode "Teela's Quest" and the MYP episode "Out of the Past" to reveal Adora and ultimately establish Adora as She-Ra. Maybe a bit much to tell smoothly in a single movie, it really depends on the allotted time -- I see about the first third or so of such a movie focused on Teela with the rest going towards Adora/She-Ra (not that we'd suddenly drop Teela, she'd be there throughout the movie with her help integral to He-Man finding Adora).

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    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=WhipTastic;3167097]

    Its not that I dislike the Adam/ He-Man dichotomy, its just,....as I have previously stated, see that these movies these days try to appeal on a more practical, serious level and I find the Prince Adam identity to be kind of silly. I also can't imagine a bunch of transformation sequences in every (if there is more than one) film. I mean, the first one will certainly be epic...but more than one....nah.
    Practical and serious? I basically ignored that the first time around but here-- As just one example-- watch any of the Transformers movies Bay came up with and say that again with a straight face. They're absolutely ridiculous.

    You don't need to show a transformation every time even with Adam. That was a mistake even in the original show-- though they got around it more than once. Do I need to see every time a character loads their gun? No. Nor do I need to see Adam transform every time--- far too Henshin/anime there.
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    [QUOTE=Machinitess;3167625]
    Quote Originally Posted by WhipTastic View Post

    Practical and serious? I basically ignored that the first time around but here-- As just one example-- watch any of the Transformers movies Bay came up with and say that again with a straight face. They're absolutely ridiculous.

    I could. Michael Bay tried to make the films serious and more realistic, hence why the military is involved the Autobots have mouths etc..he was trying to make a more realistic engaging story. Although the fans thought it was garbage, the overall it was still an attempt to be serious in tone as opposed to the old cartoon.

  25. #25
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    The incantation and transformation are two of the most iconic and memorable things about Masters of the Universe to general audiences so it is not likely that they will be jettisoned for a film.

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