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Thread: Who is your version of He-Ro? (Potential Spoilers)

  1. #1
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Who is your version of He-Ro? (Potential Spoilers)

    BEWARE: POTENTIAL SPOILERS


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    So in the issue #17, He-Ro was depicted as King GS and Veena's son, who ultimately won back the land from the Gar.

    According to MOTUC cannon, He-Ro is a cosmic warrior who accidentally comes to Eternia and helps King GS to defeat Hordak. Upon his death, he gives King GS the sword of power.

    So obviously some different plot points here. Which version of Pre-Eternia do you prefer? The one wherein the snakemen, horde and King GS have a triple war wherein the power of He is delivered in sword form to King GS and dies in mortal combat with Hordak?

    Or do you prefer the storyline wherein King GS fashions the weapons, defeats the Horde with the weapon and is betrayed by the Gar? Later He-Ro exacts his revenge and banishes the Gar using the weapon and hides it with Eldor.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    I'm liking the new comic version much more, so far.
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    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Both are somewhat variations on the same, one has just kind of toned down early space travel. Personal canon wise, He-ro and Greyskull are twin brothers who are both given a power sword when they defeat the original Horde. Greyskull stays on Eternia to rule, He-ro becomes the first cosmic enforcer. Because of a prophesy they both dump their powers into their swords, He-ro going to Earth to be the ancestor of Marlena and Greyskull being the ancestor of Randor.
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    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Both are somewhat variations on the same, one has just kind of toned down early space travel. Personal canon wise, He-ro and Greyskull are twin brothers who are both given a power sword when they defeat the original Horde. Greyskull stays on Eternia to rule, He-ro becomes the first cosmic enforcer. Because of a prophesy they both dump their powers into their swords, He-ro going to Earth to be the ancestor of Marlena and Greyskull being the ancestor of Randor.
    That is an interesting notion. I like how you weaved the cosmic warriors in there. One thing I've always struggled with is how the cosmic enforcers came to be. I have a vague understanding of it but again, not very clear even with the MOTUC bios.

    I also agree with the other poster, I'm enjoying the comic canon a lot more than MOTUC's. Maybe it's because the material is readily accessible and linear versus MOTUC which gives you information from different time periods across each figure...and can be hard to connect.

  5. #5
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    I love the comic book origin, it feels right keeping everything within the Grayskull blood line. Having He-Ro be some sort of space dude that crash lands on Eternia is just weird to me. Having Grayskull forge both swords, and then sire He-Ro seems amazing. Makes Grayskull more important, and makes Veena's child more important.
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    N7 Horde Operative hadley's Avatar
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    You know how they've said "He" means power? Well I've kinda played with that and decided that "Ro" means honor, and that's where She-"Ra" comes from. He-Ro had both power and honor. He-Man calls on the power, She-Ra calls on the honor. He's the root of it. But "in my canon" as we are fond of saying, I still kept him as a visitor from Trolla.

    I think it does make way more sense with my version of things that he has to be in the bloodline. I did not really care for him being a cosmic cop, since he doesn't fit in with their aesthetic at all. I generally don't like He-Ro for reasons I don't quite understand myself. The new comic version is the best yet though.

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    This-Guy crashdiary27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    I love the comic book origin, it feels right keeping everything within the Grayskull blood line. Having He-Ro be some sort of space dude that crash lands on Eternia is just weird to me. Having Grayskull forge both swords, and then sire He-Ro seems amazing. Makes Grayskull more important, and makes Veena's child more important.
    My thoughts exactly.

  8. #8
    2002/DC He-Man Video guy Jukka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    Which version of Pre-Eternia do you prefer? The one wherein the snakemen, horde and King GS have a triple war wherein the power of He is delivered in sword form to King GS and dies in mortal combat with Hordak?

    Or do you prefer the storyline wherein King GS fashions the weapons, defeats the Horde with the weapon and is betrayed by the Gar? Later He-Ro exacts his revenge and banishes the Gar using the weapon and hides it with Eldor.
    I'm curious...

    Why not include a third option?

    The original 80s story?

  9. #9
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    I prefer the DC MOTU's He-Ro's story for two reasons:
    - First because is connecting the Original Powers of Grayskull storyline with King Grayskull's legend that was introduced in the 200X cartoon, with the only difference that He-Ro fought against the Gar's tyranny and not the Snake Men. But this is not a problem, at the contrary is giving a satisfying explanation of what triggered the hostility between the Eternians and the Gar, so personally i' m ok with it.

    - Second because restored He-Ro as a heroic ancestor of He-Man and She-Ra, wiithout riducing King Grayskull and Queen Veena's importance, and also without the Cosmic Warrior non-sense of the Classic Canon and the whole Trolla being the center of MOTU Universe concept. Also the DC MOTU explains He-Ro's magical abilities and why he was a wizard (since probably inherited these abilities from Queen Veena, his mother), and also why He-Ro wield at the beginning a staff and not the Sword of Power (which was at Gar's hands at the time).

    What's interesting is the prospective that He-Ro was probably the person that built Eternos and placed the Sword of Power there (as already we have seen Adam to retrieving the Sword from the mural in Origin of He-Man's one shot).

    There are some interesting questions though, that have not been answered yet:

    - Was He-Ro already born during the time of the Gar's coup and he escaped during their attack (perhaps with Eldor's or Laser-Lot's assistance)? Or he was born later? And if this is the case how this happen since we saw Veena to be captured during the coup?

    - Did Veena and Grayskull have other children besides He-Ro? The issue hinted that probably he wasn't the only one.

    - Who took care of young He-Ro? Eldor or Laser Lot? or both of them?

    And of cource the whole war between the Gar and the Eternians is a chapter that would be good to see further explored. I believe that may we need a couple of issues of the DC comic for knowing better DC Preternia.

    Whatever happens though i' m really very happy to see He-Ro and Eldor in the pages of the DC comic and being part of this canon. It was an unexpected and awesome surprise!

    And Mattel we need King Grayskull's wife and He-Ro's mother before the MOTUC line ends! One of the most important characters to the whole MOTU mythos. We need Veena!
    Last edited by granamyr80; September 26, 2014 at 05:47pm.

  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior Poweron's Avatar
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    A quote from Toyguru himself:

    "We wanted to include figures of both He-Ro and King Grayskull while maintaining their equal importance to Eternian history and He-Man's origin. The compromise was to make Grayskull the origin of the bloodline and He-Ro the bringer of the Sword.

    incidently, for those who are fans of the "Gray" real name and the Most Powerful Wizard in the Universe area of He-Ro's adventures, we did deliberetly leave a window for that. there is a hint out there already with more to be revealed in the not to distant future."


    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...cs-mini-comics


    The image in the latest comic could be Gray, the son of Grayskull and Veena, who has adopted the armour, name, legend, etc. of the He-Ro who came to Eternia in his father's time.

    Therefore, the MOTUC bios are true, the comics still work, and the original concept essentially stays in play. MOTUC He-Ro is still a thing, and Gray is the new "He-Ro" as well as the distant ancestor of He-Man.

    That's my version of He-Ro.
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  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior PowerofGygor's Avatar
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    This one:

    "He-Ro is a cosmic warrior who accidentally comes to Eternia and helps King GS to defeat Hordak. Upon his death, he gives King GS the sword of power."
    I HAVE THE POWER!!!!!!!!

  12. #12
    SoH Supporter He-Dad's Avatar
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    DC He-ro is now my version. Though I think it needs a bit of time travel to incorporate classics cannon as well and make it cohesive. So He-ro is son of KG but after defeat in the Gar has an encounter with the resurrected Snakemen then goes back to Preeternia to defeat them. He hides his true identity from his father as to not upset the time space continuum.

  13. #13
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    I'm curious...

    Why not include a third option?

    The original 80s story?
    How much do we know about the original 80s story?
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things arenít absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I donít collect toys to be miserable. So Iíd rather think about the things that do excite me
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  14. #14
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    I like Hero being the son.
    I also like the Gar rule story.

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    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    I like the DC story much better than the clusterfrak origin in the MOTUC bios. Abd at least he did something and has a meaningful story, as opposed to the MOTUC mini comics where he is killed off because King Grayskull is apparently "more interesting".
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    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    That is an interesting notion. I like how you weaved the cosmic warriors in there. One thing I've always struggled with is how the cosmic enforcers came to be. I have a vague understanding of it but again, not very clear even with the MOTUC bios.

    I also agree with the other poster, I'm enjoying the comic canon a lot more than MOTUC's. Maybe it's because the material is readily accessible and linear versus MOTUC which gives you information from different time periods across each figure...and can be hard to connect.
    I don't dislike them being agents of Trolla, but personally Trollans are just more advanced with Magic and Technology and got locked away by Horde Prime years ago. I understand people's complaint about the idea being too similar to Green Lantern in a sense. But let's be honest Cosmic Enforcer is going to have a problem not coming off sounding like a Green Lantern to some extent. but subtract power rings, give them each unique abilities, the reason they are chosen has more to do with maintaining the law. But whole other issue.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't fluff over that in the original canon because it would come off like that.

    Also Trollans aren't little blue men, that's just how they appear when they are breaking through the dimensional barrier not being able to fully materialize and why their magic is so messed up . I need to read the newest issue.

    Personally I don't mind the way the comics going as much as others, it's different. Which is fine I have enjoyed different variations on TMNT and other properties over the years which were all different in their story.
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  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    I really like a lot of these interpretations and I agree with a lot of them. To me, I see He-Ro as being an essential character. Without him (if you go by the Space warrior story) he is essential to Eternia essentially developing technology along with sorcery.

    Anyway, the one point which I can't reconcile is how the power of He gets to the Eternia and how Grayskull uses it to craft the swords. I understand the generally origin story for the universe- the pantheon of gods create the binding element for the universe called He which they hide away from the dark gods on Eternia.

    So my question is, who really initially wields the power of He first? He-Ro when he fell from the stars? Grayskull when he forged the weapons? (And btw- side question, DC comics- how do they explain him finding the power of He on Eternia? He just has a massive forge and thats really as far as they go..) Any more thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    I really like a lot of these interpretations and I agree with a lot of them. To me, I see He-Ro as being an essential character. Without him (if you go by the Space warrior story) he is essential to Eternia essentially developing technology along with sorcery.

    Anyway, the one point which I can't reconcile is how the power of He gets to the Eternia and how Grayskull uses it to craft the swords. I understand the generally origin story for the universe- the pantheon of gods create the binding element for the universe called He which they hide away from the dark gods on Eternia.

    So my question is, who really initially wields the power of He first? He-Ro when he fell from the stars? Grayskull when he forged the weapons? (And btw- side question, DC comics- how do they explain him finding the power of He on Eternia? He just has a massive forge and thats really as far as they go..) Any more thoughts?
    In the DC continuity no one brought the Sword of Power on Eternia, but it was created in the fires of the Starseed by King Grayskull. Rob David, Head Writer and Lead Creative on "Masters of the Universe" for Mattel's Playground Productions, has said in a recent interview about King Grayskull:

    "King Grayskull is a supremely important figure in MOTU, and also specifically in the mythology of these comics. He forged the Sword of Power. He took the power of creation and weaponized it. He did so to save the universe. But it's like when they built the first H-Bomb. Once it was created, it could never be uncreated."

    Also in the DC Comic, Eternia is the first planet of the Creation as Rob David stated:

    "One thing I love about Eternia is that it's located at the center of the universe -- Ground Zero of the Big Bang. It's the first planet of creation. At its core is the magic that created the stars, the planets, all of us. Everything.

    Eternia would therefore be uniquely important -- to everybody. Every race in the universe would have a legitimate claim to Eternia. And just like many cultures here on Earth share similar myths, just told differently with different names, it occurred to me that the races in MOTU would be no different. All their myths would eventually lead back to Eternia. The source. The magic. They may have different names for that magic. But they'd all be talking about the same thing.

    Eternians, Snake Men and the Horde are MOTU's three main factions. In the DC Comics Continuity, these three tribes each believe that the magic of Eternia (the magic that created the universe) has a "consciousness" and see it the same way the ancient Greeks saw Gaia, as a Mother Goddess, the mother of everything. But they each see that Mother Goddess in their own way.

    Three facets of the same deity, like the Hindu's Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Or in their case: Serpos, Zoar and Horokoth. Serpos being related to Creation and the Dawn of Time, Zoar to Preservation and Eternity, and Horokoth to Destruction and Entropy."

    Basically King Grayskull built the Castle, to the very spot that has this unique access to the Power of Eternity (the other way are the 6 Rings of Subternia, but they are extremely dangerous to face, and without the Swords, the gates between one Ring and another can't open), and he forged the Sword of Power at its fires (perhaps under Veena's advice, since as a High Priestess of Zoar, she could have this knowledge), in order to defeat Hordak. Once the War was over and the Horde was banished at Despondos, the Gar betrayed King Grayskull and conquered Eternia.

    Before this happened Veena told Grayskull about a Prophecy, for a war between two of his descendants, with one of them being the next Dark Lord. King Grayskull then, before he died, he forged the Sword of Protection, in case that the Sword of Power finish in the wrong hands. After Gar's betrayal they took the Sword of Power, until the son of King Grayskull and Queen Veena lead a resistance against Gar's tyranny to victory, and he got back the Sword. Eventually he became King and hide the Sword of Power. As for the Sword of Protection, no one but one person, knew about its existance, until the events of the recent issue. So in the DC comic King Grayskull forged the Swords. He-Ro was responsable for retrieving the Sword of Power, after it was taken.


    In the Classic Canon the Sword of Power or "He" was not originated on Eternia, but it was brought by He-Ro who is not related with King Grayskull and consequently to the Twins. Eternia has not the same importance or uniqueness as it has in the DC continuity. And the Sword of Protection is cloned (now how a sword can be cloned is a question) by the Sword of Power, not forged separately for a purpose as in the DC comic.
    Last edited by granamyr80; September 28, 2014 at 08:38am.

  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior kevin's Avatar
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    yep... like most it would seem, I prefer the simple yet brilliant explanation of He-Ro as King Grayskull's son. Lets them BOTH be blood ancestors, unique individuals, and separately important to the history in their own ways.
    also, fwiw, I am loving the DC canon's versions of Eternia's mythology/history/significance (thanks for the synopsis granamyr80!), as well as their take on Adora's story. Good stuff!

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granamyr80 View Post
    In the DC continuity no one brought the Sword of Power on Eternia, but it was created in the fires of the Starseed by King Grayskull. Rob David, Head Writer and Lead Creative on "Masters of the Universe" for Mattel's Playground Productions, has said in a recent interview about King Grayskull:

    "King Grayskull is a supremely important figure in MOTU, and also specifically in the mythology of these comics. He forged the Sword of Power. He took the power of creation and weaponized it. He did so to save the universe. But it's like when they built the first H-Bomb. Once it was created, it could never be uncreated."

    Also in the DC Comic, Eternia is the first planet of the Creation as Rob David stated:

    "One thing I love about Eternia is that it's located at the center of the universe -- Ground Zero of the Big Bang. It's the first planet of creation. At its core is the magic that created the stars, the planets, all of us. Everything.

    Eternia would therefore be uniquely important -- to everybody. Every race in the universe would have a legitimate claim to Eternia. And just like many cultures here on Earth share similar myths, just told differently with different names, it occurred to me that the races in MOTU would be no different. All their myths would eventually lead back to Eternia. The source. The magic. They may have different names for that magic. But they'd all be talking about the same thing.

    Eternians, Snake Men and the Horde are MOTU's three main factions. In the DC Comics Continuity, these three tribes each believe that the magic of Eternia (the magic that created the universe) has a "consciousness" and see it the same way the ancient Greeks saw Gaia, as a Mother Goddess, the mother of everything. But they each see that Mother Goddess in their own way.

    Three facets of the same deity, like the Hindu's Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Or in their case: Serpos, Zoar and Horokoth. Serpos being related to Creation and the Dawn of Time, Zoar to Preservation and Eternity, and Horokoth to Destruction and Entropy."

    Basically King Grayskull built the Castle, to the very spot that has this unique access to the Power of Eternity (the other way are the 6 Rings of Subternia, but they are extremely dangerous to face, and without the Swords, the gates between one Ring and another can't open), and he forged the Sword of Power at its fires (perhaps under Veena's advice, since as a High Priestess of Zoar, she could have this knowledge), in order to defeat Hordak. Once the War was over and the Horde was banished at Despondos, the Gar betrayed King Grayskull and conquered Eternia.

    Before this happened Veena told Grayskull about a Prophecy, for a war between two of his descendants, with one of them being the next Dark Lord. King Grayskull then, before he died, he forged the Sword of Protection, in case that the Sword of Power finish in the wrong hands. After Gar's betrayal they took the Sword of Power, until the son of King Grayskull and Queen Veena lead a resistance against Gar's tyranny to victory, and he got back the Sword. Eventually he became King and hide the Sword of Power. As for the Sword of Protection, no one but one person, knew about its existance, until the events of the recent issue. So in the DC comic King Grayskull forged the Swords. He-Ro was responsable for retrieving the Sword of Power, after it was taken.


    In the Classic Canon the Sword of Power or "He" was not originated on Eternia, but it was brought by He-Ro who is not related with King Grayskull and consequently to the Twins. Eternia has not the same importance or uniqueness as it has in the DC continuity. And the Sword of Protection is cloned (now how a sword can be cloned is a question) by the Sword of Power, not forged separately for a purpose as in the DC comic.
    Thank you for the explanation. I think I have a grasp on DC's mythos, I had to go back and re-read some of the prequel stuff in the different comics to really get a full picture on it.

    Anyway, the one thing though that bothers me is how does DC canon explain how technology gets to Pre-eternia? In MOTUC canon, they say it's because the of the technovirus Horde Prime gives to He-Ro.

    And still one other question lingers about DC canon, how did GS know about where to find the fault line for the power? Veena I assume?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    Thank you for the explanation. I think I have a grasp on DC's mythos, I had to go back and re-read some of the prequel stuff in the different comics to really get a full picture on it.

    Anyway, the one thing though that bothers me is how does DC canon explain how technology gets to Pre-eternia? In MOTUC canon, they say it's because the of the technovirus Horde Prime gives to He-Ro.

    And still one other question lingers about DC canon, how did GS know about where to find the fault line for the power? Veena I assume?
    I believe that technology in the DC Preternia was introduced with the Gar. From what we saw from the comic so far, the Gar were technologically more advanced in comparison with the rest of the Eternian races during this time. Their armors looked more sophisticated, and their leaders, became the most trusted members among King Grayskull's Council of Elders. Also Hordak who is an admirer of technology, he hold the Gar and their civilization in high regard, as Adora revealed in the last issue. Now the Gar's origin in the DC continuity is a mystery. We don't know if they were natives of Eternia or they came from somewhere else (Infinita perhaps?). My speculation is, that since Hordak, who is an intergalactic tyrant, knew them so well, perhaps they have a non Eternian origin. But really i hope that they explain in the comic later, where the Gar came from.

    As for how King Grayskull knew about the particular importance of the place on which built the Castle, i believe that it was because of Veena. She was the High Priestess of Zoar, and Oracle of the Goddess, so most likely knew about this place, and the need to be fortified and protected.

  22. #22
    2002/DC He-Man Video guy Jukka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    How much do we know about the original 80s story?
    http://www.grayskullmuseum.com/conce...ggrayskull.htm

    He-Ro was originally Gray.

    Leader of the good guys against Evil Dino Reptilian Kingdom.

    Ancestor to He-Man and She-Ra.

    Mentored by Eldor, as he entered a mysterious cave and received powers
    that changed his life. He also has the added power of natural magic.

  23. #23
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    Well we have certainly come along way since 1997 huh guys? IIRC that was when Adam or Matt first posted this image and we started to talk about Mini comic Power of Grayskull The legend begins?


    So many years later and we have learned a lot about this abandoned, legendary "Pre-Eternia" saga! Seams like every couple years we learn a new shocking revelation that shifts everything we think we know...In recent years we have seen all the stages of Eldor's prototype and cardback. We learned the Snake-Men and Horde might have started as one and the same thing, perhaps a "dino-reptillian kingdom"? Especially exciting is that "the unnamed One" Whom King hiss served could be HORDAK?!?!?! 3:50 mark. Talk about a paradigm shift! But I'm jumping ahead. Lets go back to the beginning, a tribal boy named Gray who was lured into a cave...Keep in mind that's Gray, as in GRAYSKULL. Presumably that was was shortened for his bio, perhaps to add a sense of mystery or impending destiny? In a sense, this is the original King of Castle Grayskull, at least that was the implication. The physical pperance and role of the mentor (working name) Eldor, one can't help but see an Arthurian like character. A boy who would be the future King. What did he acomplish that day in the cave? Pulling a Sword from a stone? Or perhaps a staff from a Gem? So fun to speculate! Given what little we know about 1987 version of Keldor, one might assume he was to be the Mordred of this story. Consider that when reading recent issues of DC's comic...The potential of the original is amazing to me. It's a shame MVCreations didn't get that change to run with this and do something more in line with what was originally happened...Look at the nuts and bolts of what a writer has to work with:

    Ancient wizards in The prehistoric setting, who built Grayskull before the Great Wars.
    Ancient technology more powerful then modern stuff (Like Point Dread and the Talon Fighter)
    Titanic giants and god like beasts including bionic dinosaurs.
    The reptilian Snakemen invaders from other worlds. Possibly, considering Zillora, might they be returning to a world they left?
    Possible origin of the Horde and it's ruthless leader. (Former Ancient/Wizard/Eldor and secret unnamed one whom Hiss served?)
    The origins of the Sword of Power (Most likely AFTER Hordak was banished to Etheria where he originally came from...)
    Keldor's secret origin...
    Time Travel.
    Gwildor presumably being an ancient/"wizard"
    The coming of the sorceress to Eternia...
    The exodus of Zodac, once leader of and last remaining member of The Council and who summoned The Sorceress.
    The ancient Lords of Destruction entombed in the newly constructed Snake Mountain (thank you Golden Disks of knowledge...)
    All this action centered around the gigantic Three Towers of Eternia!
    Least we forget The Star Seed, the formation of Eternia it self at the center of the universe, The Energy Beast that ruled the world near the dawn of time and how the ancient ancestors freed Eternia, tamed the world, discovered all the secrets of the universe through sorcery and science and that built the Hall of Wisdom to store that knowledge thus creating utopia that the evil inhabitants of Eternia's counterpart planet (Infinita and/or Etheria?) Lusted for and infiltrated Eternian society.

    Best of all, that isn't "My Canon" or anything I made up my self...That is all actual 1980's canon, with only a extremely small dose of assumption and a LOT of detective work. I didn't have to ignore anything to FORCE continuity. It's there if you are paying attention, imperfect and confusing it may be given the alternating terms for essentially the same things. There is a sense of epic adventures that no other version of ancient Eternia has come CLOSE to capturing that is implied in the original material. Though, perhaps that is the secret, that it's implied. The Clone Wars, Boba Fett and Mandalorians fueled the imagination where as the prequel trilogy fell flat just like these comics are doing now. Though even there the disappointment is born from Lucas ignoring his OWN story he had previously established. That's the problem with not knowing where you have been, you can't know where your going, and even if you do, you tend to take a few wrong paths along the way because you weren't paying attention.

    Keep in mind we are talking about what? Handful of bios, six packaging art and five mini comics compared to a half hour of television, a few flashbacks and references in the MYP series and twice as many comic DURING this preternian era and IDK how many modern Bios. And the original is still better? Perhaps that is because PoG was steeped in the lore as established by the foundational mini comics, expanded upon by Filmation's series bible, hinted at in dozens of Filmation's episodes and was to be codified, redefined and explored by something that ALMOST came to be. I really wish I had a Cosmic Key to travel back in time, and a Book of Living Spells I could open up to "change it". :-( The post 2000 material is wholesale reinvention. It isn't a retcon, but a reboot followed by reboot and now here we are, a 3rd reboot. What is this Legion of Superheroes? I know that technically speaking DC and the Bios are running concurrent and independent of one anther's continuity, so that might not be completely accurate, but That's another strength of the original PoG had over modern variations, it was going to unite everything under a single continuity across all media! No more conflicting story content from one media to the next. When you pay attention, you can see those threads coming together in the 1987 materials...

    Most importantly, The original He-Ro aptly named pledged allegiance to the gun show daily , better yet, he actually stood for something! DC's murderous, psychopathic He-Man and friends do not!

    By placing one hand on his heart, flexing the other arm into a muscle and incanting, "Magic and strength…tempered by heart!" Gray causes an amazing transformation to occur, becoming the He-Ro of Grayskull and announcing, "I stand for Peace!"
     

    Vlad Anti-Hero The Impaler from opposite Eternia? What is he decorating for Halloween?

    This panel isn't just a slap in the face to this character, it's skull ****ing him. Which is more disturbing, that mental picture or the actual picture approved by Mattel...

    For ten years now, I like talked on the idea of father and son. It mirrors Randor and Adam. Grayskull and Grayskull Jr. defending The Council against their enemies. Arthur and Uther. I've argued that could fit AROUND and expand from the existing 1987 bio and assorted lore. If King Grayskull was king of Grayskull Tower that would explain why it existed before Castle Grayskull and give Tytus something to build. I'm glad that made it into the MOTUC mini comic at least before He-Ro was murdered by Hordak. I like that in these comics that King grayskull forged the TWIN swords him self. "It's just a sword" line from MYP always bothered me. That he forged them in the firs of creation is reminiscent of the ONE good idea that came from Justin Mark's Grayskull movie script. However, strange as it may sound to say, that the sword was forged to be a weapon bothers me. I always liked that the most powerful man in the universe never used his sword to kill. It showed a strength of CHARACTER that he was reserved in using his powers. Why would these characters NEED to kill anyway? He-Man was always good at capturing his enemies, He-Ro could literally transform the enemies weapons to pudding and banish them to timeless voids. This then makes them BLOOD LUSTING MURDERERS who clearly enjoy killing. That's not a "He-Ro" that is a VILLAIN! Besides. that THIS SWORD isn't a tool to kill, but a symbol of power, and even a KEY to the castle, well it makes it UNIQUE and unlike any other property.

    When is a sword, not a sword? When it's He-Man's.


    I'm really sad that people are enjoying that. Normally, I'd think "To each their own..." but that has never, before now, been what MOTU has is about! I don't think it should be. Before now MOTU, no matter the interpretation or media, was an IP that was always safe for five year olds. Now it isn't. That isn't what grown up looks like BTW. That's what a troubled 13 year old's notebook looks like. This isn't "cool" or "mature" it's disturbing because MOTU isn't Conan and it isn't Game of Thrones, but is a children story...Thous properties exist if you'd like to enjoy them. I certainly do. MOTU doesn't have to be them, it isn't them! It never has been before now...Why change that? (I guess, this is how some people felt about NA in 1989?)

    Take the above image, Put Barny in his place. Now try Mighty Max or Batman or Superman. I really wish people would stop and analyze what little we do know about what PoG was, especially if they seek to reinvent it. Same is true for MOTU in general, or anything for that matter. If I dissembled a toaster, put it back together without knowing how to, and then tried to make toast, I'm pretty sure I'd get burned. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement or alterations. That would be ludicrous. Tytus literally building Castle Grayskull instead of Castle Grayskull being the Hall of Wisdom transformed is a fun idea. Though even that misses the whole point about Gray's transforming powers, and all that stuff about "living spells" and how that ties to to The Elders and The Castle being transformed from one thing to another...Throwing away what LITTLE story there seams lazy and a little egotistical to me. If it ain't broken don't fix it. All MOTU has EVER needed was for someone to continue it, to add to it. Changing it is just driving people away and with such a small fan base, how is that a good thing?

    I never thought Mattel could make MOTU into something I could not support, yet I'm seriously considering not buying the next issue.

    A He-Ro I don't needs. A MOTU comic I don't want?!?!?!

    That's Anti-LFE...
    Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; October 2, 2014 at 05:25am.
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    Well we have certainly come along way since 1997 huh guys? IIRC that was when Adam or Matt first posted this image and we started to talk about Mini comic Power of Grayskull The legend begins?
    http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...proto_full.jpg

    So many years later and we have learned a lot about this abandoned, legendary "Pre-Eternia" saga! Seams like every couple years we learn a new shocking revelation that shifts everything we think we know...In recent years we have seen all the stages of Eldor's prototype and cardback. We learned the Snake-Men and Horde might have started as one and the same thing, perhaps a "dino-reptillian kingdom"? Especially exciting is that "the unnamed One" Whom King hiss served could be HORDAK?!?!?! 3:50 mark. Talk about a paradigm shift! But I'm jumping ahead. Lets go back to the beginning, a tribal boy named Gray who was lured into a cave...Keep in mind that's Gray, as in GRAYSKULL. Presumably that was was shortened for his bio, perhaps to add a sense of mystery or impending destiny? In a sense, this is the original King of Castle Grayskull, at least that was the implication. The physical pperance and role of the mentor (working name) Eldor, one can't help but see an Arthurian like character. A boy who would be the future King. What did he acomplish that day in the cave? Pulling a Sword from a stone? Or perhaps a staff from a Gem? So fun to speculate! Given what little we know about 1987 version of Keldor, one might assume he was to be the Mordred of this story. Consider that when reading recent issues of DC's comic...The potential of the original is amazing to me. It's a shame MVCreations didn't get that change to run with this and do something more in line with what was originally happened...Look at the nuts and bolts of what a writer has to work with:

    Ancient wizards in The prehistoric setting, who built Grayskull before the Great Wars.
    Ancient technology more powerful then modern stuff (Like Point Dread and the Talon Fighter)
    Titanic giants and god like beasts including bionic dinosaurs.
    The reptilian Snakemen invaders from other worlds. Possibly, considering Zillora, might they be returning to a world they left?
    Possible origin of the Horde and it's ruthless leader. (Former Ancient/Wizard/Eldor and secret unnamed one whom Hiss served?)
    The origins of the Sword of Power (Most likely AFTER Hordak was banished to Etheria where he originally came from...)
    Keldor's secret origin...
    Time Travel.
    Gwildor presumably being an ancient/"wizard"
    The coming of the sorceress to Eternia...
    The exodus of Zodac, once leader of and last remaining member of The Council and who summoned The Sorceress.
    The ancient Lords of Destruction entombed in the newly constructed Snake Mountain (thank you Golden Disks of knowledge...)
    All this action centered around the gigantic Three Towers of Eternia!
    Least we forget The Star Seed, the formation of Eternia it self at the center of the universe, The Energy Beast that ruled the world near the dawn of time and how the ancient ancestors freed Eternia, tamed the world, discovered all the secrets of the universe through sorcery and science and that built the Hall of Wisdom to store that knowledge thus creating utopia that the evil inhabitants of Eternia's counterpart planet (Infinita and/or Etheria?) Lusted for and infiltrated Eternian society.

    Best of all, that isn't "My Canon" or anything I made up my self...That is all actual 1980's canon, with only a extremely small dose of assumption and a LOT of detective work. I didn't have to ignore anything to FORCE continuity. It's there if you are paying attention, imperfect and confusing it may be given the alternating terms for essentially the same things. There is a sense of epic adventures that no other version of ancient Eternia has come CLOSE to capturing that is implied in the original material. Though, perhaps that is the secret, that it's implied. The Clone Wars, Boba Fett and Mandalorians fueled the imagination where as the prequel trilogy fell flat just like these comics are doing now. Though even there the disappointment is born from Lucas ignoring his OWN story he had previously established. That's the problem with not knowing where you have been, you can't know where your going, and even if you do, you tend to take a few wrong paths along the way because you weren't paying attention.

    Keep in mind we are talking about what? Handful of bios, six packaging art and five mini comics compared to a half hour of television, a few flashbacks and references in the MYP series and twice as many comic DURING this preternian era and IDK how many modern Bios. And the original is still better? Perhaps that is because PoG was steeped in the lore as established by the foundational mini comics, expanded upon by Filmation's series bible, hinted at in dozens of Filmation's episodes and was to be codified, redefined and explored by something that ALMOST came to be. I really wish I had a Cosmic Key to travel back in time, and a Book of Living Spells I could open up to "change it". :-( The post 2000 material is wholesale reinvention. It isn't a retcon, but a reboot followed by reboot and now here we are, a 3rd reboot. What is this Legion of Superheroes? I know that technically speaking DC and the Bios are running concurrent and independent of one anther's continuity, so that might not be completely accurate, but That's another strength of the original PoG had over modern variations, it was going to unite everything under a single continuity across all media! No more conflicting story content from one media to the next. When you pay attention, you can see those threads coming together in the 1987 materials...

    Most importantly, The original He-Ro aptly named pledged allegiance to the gun show daily , better yet, he actually stood for something! DC's murderous, psychopathic He-Man and friends do not!





    I'm really sad that people are enjoying that. Normally, I'd think "To each their own..." but that has never, before now, been what MOTU has is about! I don't think it should be. Before now MOTU, no matter the interpretation or media, was an IP that was always safe for five year olds. Now it isn't. That isn't what grown up looks like BTW. That's what a troubled 13 year old's notebook looks like. This isn't "cool" or "mature" it's disturbing because MOTU isn't Conan and it isn't Game of Thrones, but is a children story...Thous properties exist if you'd like to enjoy them. I certainly do. MOTU doesn't have to be them, it isn't them! It never has been before now...Why change that? (I guess, this is how some people felt about NA in 1989?)

    Take the above image, Put Barny in his place. Now try Mighty Max or Batman or Superman. I really wish people would stop and analyze what little we do know about what PoG was, especially if they seek to reinvent it. Same is true for MOTU in general, or anything for that matter. If I dissembled a toaster, put it back together without knowing how to, and then tried to make toast, I'm pretty sure I'd get burned. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement or alterations. That would be ludicrous. Tytus literally building Castle Grayskull instead of Castle Grayskull being the Hall of Wisdom transformed is a fun idea. Though even that misses the whole point about Gray's transforming powers, and all that stuff about "living spells" and how that ties to to The Elders and The Castle being transformed from one thing to another...Throwing away what LITTLE story there seams lazy and a little egotistical to me. If it ain't broken don't fix it. All MOTU has EVER needed was for someone to continue it, to add to it. Changing it is just driving people away and with such a small fan base, how is that a good thing?

    I never thought Mattel could make MOTU into something I could not support, yet I'm seriously considering not buying the next issue.

    A He-Ro I don't needs. A MOTU comic I don't want?!?!?!

    That's Anti-LFE...

    Filmation He-Man was a children story. The DC comic since the beginning was stated that it was an alternative adult version of MOTU Universe. It's not supposed to replace previous or contemporaneous stories, or personal favorites. In the DC comic, Eternia is almost destroyed by the Horde and the remaining population have been put to chambers feeding Hordak with their souls. He-Man is trying to save what remains of his people from genocide and free his world from the Horde. Fighting for freedom and against genocide, does it makes someone a "murderous psychopath"? Since the beginning of the ongoing, the only thing that He-Man and the Heroic Warriors had destroyed, are Horde Troopers, while defending themselves and their world. I don't recall He-Man going around and killing people, like Conan. And DC Hordak is not the comedic villain of the Filmation cartoon, but a force of Nature, an immortal demigod and intergalactic tyrant. Is it possible that He-Man and She-Ra will resolve the war against such an enemy with a couple of punches, especially when Hordak already controlls the greatest Power in the Universe and he is ready to use it for concquering everything? Hard to believe.

    As for He-Ro, the DC Preternia is different from the other canons, including the contemporaneous Classic story. There are no Snake Men, since they lived in a previous era from that of King Grayskull's and He-Ro's. King Hsss though is still around and behind most of the events that occured during this period. He-Ro is King Grayskull's son raised by Eldor, who fought not against the SnakeMen, but the Gar's tyranny, King Hsss's manipulations, and at the end he freed Eternia and took back the Sword of Power. The original Powers of Grayskull's stroryline was supposed to be a prequel of Filmation's Masters of the Universe's canon, in which there was not yet introduced King Grayskull or Queen Veena. The whole series was built to follow and explain what happened in the Preternia of this particular MOTU Universe. For example it wasn't suppose to explain the original mini comic storyline, where Eternia was destroyed by the Great Wars, and from advanced technological society it was returned to a Sword and Sorcery world. Or the original tribesman He-Man. It was a prequel adaptation of the Filmation cartoons, which yes this was a children story. The DC comic it's not, and this was made clear since the first issue. But this doesn't make disappear the original POG story or make it less important. It will always be there for everyone who likes it, and perhaps someday will be adapted as a cartoon, or film, or in other media. The DC comic it's a story of its own, an alternative universe apart from the other existing or previous continuities. It's not replacing anything, and it's not a reboot. It's just an adult and more realististic adaptation of Masters of the Universe.

    DC He-Ro was raised, with the knowledge that his parents were betrayed and murdered by the Gar, his people got slain, and his kingdom destroyed. He lived under Gar's tyranny and he saw his world suffering under their rule. Do you believe that all this didn't have an impact at his psyche? And He-Ro punished the Gar leaders, but with the rest of them, he cut the contacts with Anwat Gar. Sure DC He-Ro is a much darker character than He-Man or King Grayskull, but there is a reason behind this characterization. Also this distinguish He-Ro from He-Man and King Grayskull as a character. He is not (from a characterization's point of view) the third He-Man clone. He is his own character (positive or negative this character is). In this story He-Ro retrieved the Sword of Power but he didn't use it. Perhaps because his actions didn't make him worthy for it. And Preternia in the DC continuity is the equivalent of the Dark Ages. A barbaric and primitive world. It's different from the current Eternia.

    As for your question about if Mattel was aware of DC's comic book tone, Dan Abnett has said about that in the interview that gave to Jukka:

    "How did you land on a project like Masters of the Universe? Did you pursue it or were you contacted for it?

    DC came to me and asked me. Mattel, as I understand it, knew of my Warhammer (novel) work and thought I’d be a good fit for the epic sword and sorcery."

    Mattel didn't want a children story. Wanted a Sword and Sorcery comic book. The DC comic is based on stories created by Mattel's writers. They wanted a story in which every act has real consequences for each character. Concluding this comic book's readership's target is the old MOTU fans and comic book readers that now are at their mid thirties, that have played with toys 30 years ago, and Mattel wanted presenting them a more adult and darker version of MOTU mythos. For this reason the DC MOTU is not associated with any of the current's Mattel's MOTU toylines. It's hard to believe that any kid is reading this comic (or even knows who He-Man is for that matter). When and if Mattel will try again to introduce MOTU in a wider children's audiency with a new toy line and media, of course the story will not have the tone of the DC comic and it will be kid friendly.
    Last edited by granamyr80; October 2, 2014 at 01:37pm.

  25. #25
    Court Magician Adekis's Avatar
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    I'll be honest- I've never really cared for He-Ro very much.

    I don't like the idea of a legacy of He-Men leading up to Adam. King Grayskull is one thing, if He-Man's power isn't just from that single external source. He-Ro only muddies the water more, whether he comes before or after King Grayskull on the timeline.

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