Some ebay advice (deals with international shipping)

[Dr Kain]

So whenever I sell something online, I have no problems shipping overseas if the person is willing to pay the shipping costs. However, I've recently run into a trilogy of problems, and now, I am not so sure I want to sell overseas anymore.

In the last two months, I have had three international buyers win items and not receive them. I sold some Robotech items to a guy in Australia that I shipped out on Oct 12th, and he won them for $62. I sold several Zoloworld cases to a guy in Greece, shipped them out on Nov 10th, which he paid $50 for them before shipping. Then I had a guy win some Simpsons figures I shipped out to Brazil on Nov 29th, which he won for $40. All three have not received their items and I am not sure what to do.

Do you think it is okay to only refund them half of what they paid? For example, the Robotech dude paid $62, should I refund him $31 since I am also out on the figures? Or is it "inconsiderate" of me to not refund him the full amount despite I to have taken a loss?

[DarrkKnight]

I have had some similar issues. I've ended up giving a full refund. Depending on where package goes, most now have delivery confirmation unless you shipped economy parcel. Unfortunately I am sure I was burnt by a few scammers, so after it happened twice I said no more international. Not worth the hassle or risk.

[Dr Kain]

I have had some similar issues. I've ended up giving a full refund. Depending on where package goes, most now have delivery confirmation unless you shipped economy parcel. Unfortunately I am sure I was burnt by a few scammers, so after it happened twice I said no more international. Not worth the hassle or risk.

Yeah, I've decided I'm not going to refund them the full amount unless they want to wait until tax season in Feb, as I do not have the money to refund them every cent. Plus, I still take the hit with ebay fees, so I don't care if they get mad, I will be "inconsiderate."

[Rhanen]

I really hate international buyers who are scammers since because of them, it makes impossible for other ebayers like me to purchase great stuff at a rational price and shipping rates.
On my personal experience that if the seller ships fast from US, an item should not take longer that 20 business days to arrive to Argentina on regular USPS First Class International. I practically purchase 3-8 G.I.Joe's per month, and they usually arrive in 10 straight days

I know that Australia is a little bit more difficult to arrive in time, but problem with Ebay is that now it only provides 45 days to submit a claim for an item. I can tell that there are many Brazilians and even Argentineans customers that sadly are scammers as well. Greece, Spain and Italy are quite controversial about their post office. Many sellers have excluded such countries.

If you are willing to honor half of the total amount, I think it is quite ok. In order to prevent such issue, you can state that you may ship on Priority and First Class only at buyer's risk.

I wonder what Robotech's stuff you sold, since I've been looking for some core characters from Matchbox line

[diosoth]

Last package I sent international was to Australia- and got slowed down by the hurricane shutting down ISC centers in the US. It took about 3 weeks to get there. Another seller from Brazil contacted me, oh I have heard almost nothing but bad things about sending to Brazil and Italy.... I suppose if it's an off eBay personal sale, you can insist they pay by gift to avoid any scam refunds. Buyers may not like that though.

I'd prefer to sell within the US and not have to hassle with it though it seems Canada and UK are generally safe to send to.

[MOTU_Maniac]

If they file a claim with paypal/ ebay then they will end up getting a full refund no matter what (unless you can prove the item was delivered). The only way to prove the item was delivered is if you shipped the item with a trackable method. If you shipped using USPS First Class International then you are out of luck since it can't be tracked.

Ebay/ PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer and they will deduct the money (cost of item and shipping) from your account automatically once the buyer files a claim. When you can't provide a tracking # the buyer will get refunded IN FULL for cost of item and shipping.

I don't always agree with that, but that's just how it works on ebay unfortunately

[Zodach]

Listen to MOTU_Maniac. You can offer them a 50% refund, but if they file a claim you are going to have to give it all back. You will be out the items you shipped plus the shipping cost. I am not sure if you used USPS First Class International shipping, but I use that method quite frequently. I try to only ship items that are $40 or less by that method since it's not trackable and I can't prove delivery if the buyer files a claim. Fortunately I have shipped out a lot of packages via FCM International and had only 1 package lost.

[markatisu]

I ship 3-7 International Packages a week and for 99% of them I now use Priority Mail International only on eBay due to the Tracking. The only time I use First Class International on eBay is when its an item I do not take a hit on losing, then I only offer to refund the item price since I can prove I paid for the shipping and the other party is almost always acceptable of that.

Paypal and eBay will not side with you unless you have proof it was delivered, there are tons of scammers on eBay internationally. I had one tell me they never received it only to get the package back 3 months later that showed they were just too lazy to go pick it up because they were not home when it was delivered.

Amazingly this almost NEVER happens at my store, I ship well over 30 First Class International packages a month from my store and every one of them arrives in 2 weeks or less. Its something about eBay that things get stolen, lost, or mysteriously never arrive.

Mexico, Italy and France are my problem countries. I have never ever had a problem sending to Brazil, Argentina, or Australia.

[MOTU_Maniac]

Mexico, Italy and France are my problem countries. I have never ever had a problem sending to Brazil, Argentina, or Australia.

I agree 100% about Italy and France and would add in Greece and Malaysia. Not everyone from these countries is a scammer, but I have had more than my fair share to make me uneasy about shipping to them. I have NEVER had a problem with UK, Spain, Germany, Australia, Argentina, or Brazil.

I wish you could adjust your ebay to not allow people to bid/ purchase if they have less than 20 positive feedback. You can only block people with < 0 feedback. I have NEVER had a problem with anyone that had 50+ positive feedback...or even 20+. It is usually new people with 0-5 feedback that are just trying to scam.

[markatisu]

I agree 100% about Italy and France and would add in Greece and Malaysia. Not everyone from these countries is a scammer, but I have had more than my fair share to make we uneasy about shipping to them.

Yeah I am not sure what it is but Italy and France has the most impatient and unpleasant buyers. Note this does not mean the entire country is that way, but I can tell you at least 15 examples of the past 2 years of just headache after headache involving those 2 countries. The countries that I expect problems in (Philippines, Russia, and South America) in turn are the most nice and patient.

I wish you could adjust your ebay to not allow people to bid/ purchase if they have less than 20 positive feedback.

Yeah but then why would eBay allow us as sellers to be able to do that, I mean they only take 12-16% of our earnings so why should we get anything we want

[Bonehead]

This is why I refuse to ship ANYTHING outsides the continental US.

I used to ship internationally all the time on ebay but I got got screwed too often. I lost over $1,000 in 3 years. It's honestly not worth the hassle.

Yeah, I've decided I'm not going to refund them the full amount unless they want to wait until tax season in Feb, as I do not have the money to refund them every cent. Plus, I still take the hit with ebay fees, so I don't care if they get mad, I will be "inconsiderate."

If they file a claim with Paypal and you can't provide proof that that you sent the package and that it arrived, it won't matter what you want to do. Paypal will just take the money out of your account. If you don't have the money they can suspend your Paypal and Ebay account until you pay. Or if they really want to be mean, they can ban you.

Hope you got tracking.

[He-bro]

Get stamps.com and always insure your out of country stuff. It's cheaper then delivery confirmation.

(You'll most likely get stuck refunding the whole amount)

[markatisu]

Hope you got tracking.

He would need to get Priority Tracking, First Class International Tracking rarely gets scanned to completion and Paypal won't accept that if it has not delivery scan.

[Dr Kain]

If they file a claim with paypal/ ebay then they will end up getting a full refund no matter what (unless you can prove the item was delivered). The only way to prove the item was delivered is if you shipped the item with a trackable method. If you shipped using USPS First Class International then you are out of luck since it can't be tracked.

They cannot do that though. The USPS customs slip clearly shows they left the country. As such, ebay/Paypal have no right to force me to do a full refund.

- - - Updated - - -

I ship 3-7 International Packages a week and for 99% of them I now use Priority Mail International only on eBay due to the Tracking.

The thing is, most buyers do not want Priority International because it ends up costing between $50-$75 most of the time. They want First Class because it comes out to like $18-35.

- - - Updated - - -

Hope you got tracking.

USPS does not offer tracking on First Class. The customs slip stops tracking the moment it leaves the country.

Anyway, yeah, I am done shipping internationally. After the auctions I have up now end, I will no longer offer services outside of the country sans Canada.

[markatisu]

They cannot do that though. The USPS customs slip clearly shows they left the country. As such, ebay/Paypal have no right to force me to do a full refund.

They have every right to do that, they are not federally insured or a government agency. They are a private corporation that handles money under their rules and they can pretty much do whatever they want including taking your money, freezing your account, or closing it and banning you from using eBay or Paypal.

You need to read the fine print, they changed the rules a while back that now requires confirmation the item was delivered, just leaving the country is no longer valid. They are wanting to revise it further and require a signature which will just about screw 99% of people because signature shipping is much more expensive.

The thing is, most buyers do not want Priority International because it ends up costing between $50-$75 most of the time. They want First Class because it comes out to like $18-35.

Well that is tough for them, people always want the cheap shipping but refuse to accept responsibility if the item is lost/stolen/seized. You learn to get over that when you start losing money and people either play by your rules or they don't play.

USPS does not offer tracking on First Class. The customs slip stops tracking the moment it leaves the country.

Not true, its up to the country to continue the scanning. The UK, some South American Countries, Canada, and Australia for example will continue scanning and confirm the shipment of 1st Class Mail.

First Class and Priority Tracking are the same thing, just priority is set up so that the other countries are required to scan via their partnership with the USPS. First Class gets scanned at their leisure because this requirement does not exist.

[diosoth]

Paypal likes to circumvent legal responsibility. It's why they take from you when the mail loses or damages a product. Nothing short of another service replacing them(will never happen, numerous alternatives have popped up and no one will switch), or severe government regulation will change it.

[He-Manis007]

Yeah, I gave up shipping internationally myself. Too many with strange instructions, asking me to lie about the value of what I was shipping and so on. It just got to be too much for a simple transaction.

[Bonehead]

They cannot do that though. The USPS customs slip clearly shows they left the country. As such, ebay/Paypal have no right to force me to do a full refund.

As Mark already said, they do have the right to refund the seller if you can't prove that the box arrived at it's destination. Just because it left the country doesn't mean it was received by the buyer.

This rule applies to every item you sell on Ebay. You must prove it arrived at the buyer's destination. If you can't prove it via a tracking number or signature, any buyer can and will get a refund. It doesn't matter if it's domestic or international.

Rule #1: Always get tracking

Rule #2: Always get insurance

As the saying goes "Cover Your Own But"

[blackiecats]

Thankfully I've never had a problem shipping an eBay item internationally. If I'm selling an item that appeals to a wide fan base eg ThunderCats, MOTU etc... I will always offer International shipping, but only if buyer pays Airsure delivery, which includes delivery confirmation and insurance. Saying that though, I sent my SS Santa recipient his gift by Airsure last year and the US postal service still managed to screw up! That's the ONLY time I've had problems shipping overseas! Luckily it did get to the correct address in the end (thanks to the place it got wrongly delivered too!)

I did however have a UK eBay buyer say they never got the item, which I had sent by recorded delivery, which requires a sig on delivery, but not delivery confirmation. I provided eBay/Paypal with the tracking number and also submitted a claim with the post office. The post office wrote back to say they were writing to the buyer for them to confirm they never got the parcel, before they could further the claim to a pay out. A week later the Paypal dispute was dropped by the buyer and they left positive feedback. I never heard back from the post office about the claim again.... I have no idea whether the buyer was trying to scam me and got cold feet when they got the letter from the post office asking them to confirm non delivery (making a false claim is obviously a criminal offence) or the post office found the parcel and eventually delivered it? However the tracking never confirmed a signature was taken. Maybe the postman gave the person the parcel without getting a signature? Then knowing they *should* have signed for it, thought they would now try getting it free by claiming non delivery?

I do know a month or so later I noticed that the person was 'no longer a registered member'. That made me think maybe they got suspended for pulling the same trick on others?...

The only items I send by standard mail is auctions I start at 99p. If they get lost it's not such a big deal to me.

I will say though I never send ANYTHING to Italy anymore unless it goes by fully tracked and fully insured post. Sometimes I won't send there at all, as customs over there are notoriously shady and a MOC figure you sell can soon become a mint loose figure once they get their hands on it Unfortunately it's now come down to only posting by the expensive shipping due to scammers...

I hope you manage to sort it all out without being too much out of pocket

[MOTU_Maniac]

If you sell very much then it pays to get a Stamps.com subscription service because they allow you to purchase insurance on USPS First Class Mail International shipments.

[markatisu]

If you sell very much then it pays to get a Stamps.com subscription service because they allow you to purchase insurance on USPS First Class Mail International shipments.

Yup I love stamps.com, an interesting thing I found out this year is my stamps.com packages get to their destinations 2-3x faster than USPS online. I have literally sent 1st Class to Argentina and Russia via stamps.com and it gets there in 4 days

[diosoth]

I sell on 4chan's toy board, and the unspoken rule is "don't file bogus claims to get free stuff", with the general understanding that if you scam someone your name and home address will get posted online(where you'll either be outed as a scam buyer, or accused of doing bad things to children). You do have people in foreign countries who get mad and throw massive baby tantrums if a seller won't ship to their country, but I've had more deals over there than much anywhere else lately.

Though about 99% of my sales are to US buyers, so offering to foreign destinations doesn't really bring much extra money to start with.

[MOTU_Maniac]

If you sell very much then it pays to get a Stamps.com subscription service because they allow you to purchase insurance on USPS First Class Mail International shipments.

Yup I love stamps.com, an interesting thing I found out this year is my stamps.com packages get to their destinations 2-3x faster than USPS online. I have literally sent 1st Class to Argentina and Russia via stamps.com and it gets there in 4 days

You got that right my friend!

[Dr Kain]

So yeah, the little ***** from Greece just made a complaint with ebay that he has not received his item and then says it is unfair that I only want to give him half of his money back even though I am out of the Zoloworld cases. He was spouting BS nonsense that Zolo sells them to him for $3 a case and my prices were too high but he wanted them immediately. I told him I have no proof that he isn't scamming me out of both the cases and money and that he is crazy if I am just going to give him the full amount back.

Suddenly I feel like taking a trip to Greece and bringing some crowbars with me...

[beastor]

If they file a claim with paypal/ ebay then they will end up getting a full refund no matter what (unless you can prove the item was delivered). The only way to prove the item was delivered is if you shipped the item with a trackable method. If you shipped using USPS First Class International then you are out of luck since it can't be tracked.

Ebay/ PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer and they will deduct the money (cost of item and shipping) from your account automatically once the buyer files a claim. When you can't provide a tracking # the buyer will get refunded IN FULL for cost of item and shipping.

I don't always agree with that, but that's just how it works on ebay unfortunately

This is absolutely true. I have been burned several times by international people saying they never received their items and paypal took the full amount back. I now no longer ship internationally thru eBay at all which is unfortunate because most people shouldn't have to suffer based on a few dishonest people. I also hate that eBay takes a percentage of the shipping fee (I think it is like 5% or something). So if I ship something in the US I pay around 20 cents but if I ship it internationally with tracking it is more like a $1.50 fee.

EDIT - Did you guys get the email from eBay where they are trying to create a domestic hub that you would send international items to that would handle all of the issues? Here is the ebay page http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-globally.html