Reply With QuoteFace it Matty. you don't want to re-issue the figures people want because you don't like to been told what to do, even if that means you'll get more $$$ for it
Yeah it is sad, and a lot of it, is parents using technology as babysitters....that is the problem, nothing wrong with giving your kids better learning tools than we had, but too much is too much. Give you damn kid a Transformers toy and a He-Man instead of a damn Ipod, it can often keep them just as quiet. Buy your kid a friggin instrument and get them lessons, something....Originally Posted by Ornclown
Oh, don't worry he is definitely fetching HIGH dollars. I wanted a third Fisto to display with his 200X extras, but not at these prices!
Hmmmm, maybe not for much longer though...
http://news.yahoo.com/mattel-hasbro-...210012405.html
Kind of sad with kids nowadays....
Last edited by shadowfall1976; December 26, 2012 at 03:30pm.
Recent....Unnamed One & Hydron
Coming....
Wanted....Entrapa, Double Trouble, Light Hope, Filmation Hordak & Clawful
Considering....
Needed....Dragstor
Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....
Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!
Face it Matty. you don't want to re-issue the figures people want because you don't like to been told what to do, even if that means you'll get more $$$ for it
Ya Tengo El Poder!!!!!!
I think the difference is that pouring a different type of plastic into the mold is different than adjusting the size of a part within it. I believe that is the key difference - if the mold itself (even a tiny change) means it needs a new mold which is apparently by far the most expensive part of the process and hence would likely require a new SKU.I don't think softer plastic on the tunic is worthy of being a new SKU, but if just fixing the depth of the neck peg hole in her head is then that is one big damn shame.
No, it's not that - as I outlined on the last page it's:Face it Matty. you don't want to re-issue the figures people want because you don't like to been told what to do, even if that means you'll get more $$$ for it
1) They enforce artificial scarcity in order to create fear that they believe leads to more subs
2) High prices on certain figures makes them believe the line is more attractive and noteworthy
3) Refusal to acknowledge past mistakes (making way too man of some figures and not nearly enough of others).
Ram Man will be $100 this time next year, because like Sorceress, they know it will sell out quickly and make more people feel they must sub to secure figures.
It's all done in an effort to push the flawed sub model. It would be hilarious if not so sad that those that live in this Matty bubble who do not realize that even if you are a MOTU fan, the ENTIRE CONCEPT and execution of this sub model automatically excludes many fans from participating to begin with. It reminds me of after school specials where they give a kid a sample of drugs, let them get a taste/feel, and they slowly hooks them. It works, LOL. Matty would rather shove a great big expensive bag of drugs at you and say, "all in or nothing!" which scares more people away than it "hooks".
That's not exactly true. There WAS advertising in print media in the beginning…AND there's been FREE advertising online on various toy collecting sites (this one included) all along. So, even if you're collecting another line, at some point you'd see a review posted about a Classics figure. It's cheaper for Mattel to send out free samples to fanboy toy sites for reviews than it is for them to devote any money toward advertising. This actually easily observable fact…
200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!
Not everyone though....I never ever saw MOTUC reviews while I was collecting Transformers, all I saw was the reviews of Transformers....I collected Transformers and Hot Wheels, I never actively made it a point to surf through sites, between work and family I came to see what I wanted and needed to see, and I was out....I still do that.
I get Mattel would have to spend money to advertise, and that was never my point, I know you weren't talking to me, just saying....I get why they don't....my point goes to the fact everyone assumes just because you collect another line that you'll see something or know someone that knows about MOTUC....sorry, it doesn't always happen. MOTUC was out for almost 3 full years before I came in, I knew nothing about it, hell I knew nothing about NA until I got into MOTUC....I didn't care about 200X, the toys turned me off big time, my MOTU allegiance falls to MOTU, POP & Filmation, and now the MOTUC figures I want.
Not everyone sees something. And this fact is proven by people that still come into MOTUC today, and yes, new fans find out everyday....they are out there....
Recent....Unnamed One & Hydron
Coming....
Wanted....Entrapa, Double Trouble, Light Hope, Filmation Hordak & Clawful
Considering....
Needed....Dragstor
Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....
Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!
I love these comments about how "anyone who wants MOTUC already knows about it". What a defeatist attitude.
I'm a collector, I spend several thousand bucks a year on stuff. But MOTUC is the first modern line I collected and I only found it by accident on eBay. For many years the only new figures I ever bought were Leia and Catwoman. Bless him, but I never even heard of Pixel Dan until I started collecting MOTUC.
I found the line by accident when I was looking for vintage PoP. So one could argue that "hey you found it, right?" But when I first saw the website I laughed out loud at the sub model - I found it in Nov 2010 and my instant reaction was "I cannot sign up for seen of eight months to start getting figures over a year from now?"
I am one of the rare ones. I stuck it out on a lot of the (unfufilled) promises of PoP which are just now starting to trickle out as the line is dying down. Imagine how many people DID find the line, and never bothered starting because of the absurd sales sub model. Remember, it wasn't even until this year you could even buy He-man regularly! He was $50+ on eBay.
I'll concede that advertising is not the biggest reason people why away from the line - it's the extremely exclusionary sub model (the way it is implemented). It only makes sense to the most die hard fans, and even many of them are excluded or discouraged because of all the hoops and commitments you have to make just for the privilege of buying this line.
ya this is what irks me. i dont get why they can't have all these reissues that didnt sell listed on the site all the time. that and it seems the characters reissued by and large is not a good sample of characters. so ya dont reissue everything. just ones that seem to obviously warrant it.
You should blame the fans for the sub. It was their idea, not Mattel's:
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...on#post2122954
or
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...on#post2359071
You can check every poll back in the day. People wanted the sub and they got it.
This has been discussed hundreds and thousands of times before, those who wanted Mattel to start the sub always outnumbered the ones who did not want it that way.
Starting a Toy Line that is already running for almost 5 years also means you have to dig deep in your pocket to get all the desired figures from the early years, especially, if you want them MOC.
So what I'm asking myself here is: "Is this really that much of a surprise for you guys?"
My sub will run out this December and I do not share the fear of some Orgers "Ram-Man" could be hard to find or to get. I WILL get Ram-Man, maybe not in January or even in 2013, but I will get him one day for an acceptable price, preferably loose and in good condition. I don't get the hassle in here, just be patient and everything will work like a charm.
Maybe Marzo as an archenemy was the biggest thing to happen to Mekaneck, but as far as Marzo was concerned...it was Tuesday.
So seriously collectors are complaining about the 3 to 4 regular release figures that go for double plus regular price? There are really 3 figures that will get you double plus on the secondary market:
Teela
Fisto
Sorceress
and some are saying Beastman? But the rest of the regular release figures are easily obtainable on the secondary market for only slightly more than the Mattycollector price or some even less. I just don't get all the angst? Please name one other Action Figure toyline that has been around for a few years where you can pick up every figure at the beginning price or the "new" retail price of changing landscape of toy pricing? Marvel Legends? nope. Star Wars? nope. DC Universe Classics? nope. GI Joe? nope. Transformers? nope. DC Collectibles/Direct? nope. And any other line that has had any longevity is the same. So are these other companies failing their consumer base?
I was speaking more of toy collecting sites like tni and the Fwoosh…Mosquitor is currently featured on their front page. It's so in your face you'd have to purposely ignore it.
I'm about to make as HUGE generalization here…I'm admitting that up front. But it seems like it's more of the newer people that have joined since 2010 that are vocally disgruntled. Which makes sense because they missed the beginning…which is of course the issue. However, having been here through the 200X rollout and release and what's happened since then…what we've got with Classics is GOLD. Yes it's not perfect, and yes it CAN be difficult to collect, BUT what we've got now is HEAD-AND-SHOULDERS better than what we had back with the 200X line. There was pretty much ZERO interaction between fans and Mattel. Mattel is listening, and the wheels do move slowly but there IS progress. It's a small collector's line…yes it's been beaten to death but it's a fact. If Mattel doesn't want to do second runs of only 100s of a certain figure it only makes sense. And that's probably (at best) all there is…a few hundred fans that would be willing to buy in. I certainly wouldn't make 1000s of something I knew would only sell a few 100 of. I dunno…maybe it's because I've got a little perspective having been here for a little while…but MAN Mattel didn't even do second runs of the 200X line THAT WAS AT RETAIL. At least that's the way it seemed. Once figures showed up at TRU or Wally World or Target, what they had sold and then the next wave came out. Until all the smash blades sat around and ruined the taste in all the retailer's mouths. And that's WITH a cartoon and ongoing comic AND advertising!
Having said all that…I WILL say that Fisto is a unique issue since not even all sub holders got one.
Last edited by chuc98; December 26, 2012 at 08:25pm.
200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!
True, but nonetheless, their expectations of what Mattel "should do" with earlier figure runs is illusionary. As you have wisely mentioned:
The figures they want are still out there, but they should take it as given that for a handfull of characters their wallet either has to bleed or they keep their patience and wait for a good offer. Like "cbomb23" said, where else can you pick up every figure at the beginning price or the "new" retail price, but on MOTUC??
Maybe Marzo as an archenemy was the biggest thing to happen to Mekaneck, but as far as Marzo was concerned...it was Tuesday.
Oh, here is a perfect case in point while we are on the topic of new collectors.
One of my friends who was over for the first time a few weeks back saw my MOTUC collection. He asked if they were brand new toys because they looked a lot different than he remembers, but it was his favorite show when he was growing up and he would love to get into it. I told him the line is only available online and each figure is going to cost him about $25 to get, and that only includes the one Mattel still sells on their site. I told him 90% of what he sees on my shelf he would have to get through ebay and the like. His response, "Oh **** that! I don't need to collect it that badly."
As such, Mattel just lost out on a potential customer due to their dumb policies. And I highly doubt he is the first to do this.
Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
I'm sure it happens every day. But some are so deep in the bubble it's as if the bubble is made out of steel.
The delusions are really getting out of hand here. I feel like I'm in a political discussion abut health care, and there are actually people arguing against more people having it.
I don't care what a bunch of people at this site sat around talking about years ago. I have known about this site for years (since the BCI releases began) but didn't come here regularly because, frankly, I didn't feel like there was much to talk about. Even now I don't really venture out of the MOTUC forum very often. I just don't have a ton to say about a lot of the stuff discussed here.
To presume that only those people talking about mini comics and such who already came here are the only ones who could potentially buy these figs is just asinine. Millions of people watched the Filmation shows - and I'd be willing to bet that many of the people arguing about Mattel maintaining the status quo are those that are under the extreme delusion that Filmation is not the main MOTU flagship of the franchise is and likely always will be those shows.
It's really hard to discuss because it feels like we don't have differing opinions, but simply live on different planters. Mattel has mismanaged this franchise almost from the beginning (from the arrogance of ignoring the show in much of the vintage line, to the fact that they did not secure the rights to all characters in perpetuity). 20xx could have been massive - but I'll be honest, I didn't even hear about it until years after. And the toys were terrible - deformed hunchbacks - even the females were awful (and I mainly collect female figures, aside from my complete MOTUC collection).
I guess people are so used to that, they simply cannot see objectively how this sub model is completely flawed. I'll totally buy that people in droves wanted a subscription to save time/effort, **BUT** I don't think any of them realized the consequences and if you had that same poll today, knowing how Mattel would twist it, it would be far different.
I'd love to see how many of those people are even here today, and especially if they actually still are here. So many of been dropping like flies over the myriad of issues well documented in this form - and here people are, still towing the line and realizing that all the sub model did was subsidize the Demo-mans of the line, when if they just stuck to the characters that are in demand and actually sold people what they freaking want, it would still be heathy and growing. Instead it was smoke and mirrors and that we even have fans defending this knowingly flawed model is so out if this world to me I'm actually getting a headache trying to wrap my brain around it.
So this is stupid!! Instead of Making money for themselves Mattel (Once again) is putting money in the secondary market's hands...again...
I never thought I'd see a "common" figure like Fisto go for more than a "rare"TOD Sorceress...Once again you dropped the ball Mattel.....
I'm new to MOTUC, but FWIW high prices on the secondary market have severely limited my MOTUC purchases. I'm limiting it to a few key figures that feature in the early mini comics (HM, MAA, Goddess, TRU Mer-Man, Beast Man, Skeletor, Battle Cat) because I simply can't afford the inflated prices for every sold out figure. Especially Teela!
I'd likely buy more if these were still available from Matty. I don't have any interest in most of the figures that came out this year and will come out next year (PoP stuff, New Adventures stuff). They're getting into some very lesser-known figures who have a very limited appeal. Nothing wrong with that, it's cool that they're available. Meanwhile eBay guys are making profits on the core figures.
I think the most essential figures certainly could sell out in additional runs, as their appeal is broad enough to (I think) reel in people who aren't serious collectors (ie me). I mean the real core line that came out in the first couple of years of the original vintage figures, which would be:
He-Man
MAA
Teela
Skeletor
Beast Man
Mer-Man
Battle Cat
Man-E
Ram Man
Evil-Lyn
Trap-Jaw
Tri-Klops
Just my uninformed opinion. Feel free to disregard. But the target market for these figures is Gen X, a generation that now has real jobs, disposable income, and I think is vulnerable to appeals to childhood nostalgia. With some actual advertising (and tightening up QC on these figures) I think they could sell many more than they have. Everyone my age knows about He-Man. When we have people over for dinner they're always delighted when they see my small collection and are curious about it. These are people in their mid-30s.
Last edited by Lich Leech; December 26, 2012 at 09:12pm.
I appreciate all the opinions. I really had to read through them. I would suggest that a pre-order system be created similar to Greyskull for Fisto, Sorceress, Teela or any other figure desired. When enough orders are complied to warranted production, people can be contacted to pay and the process can begin.
On a side note, I was a fan of the sub system because the scalping business was killing the hobby. Unfortunately, I think it made it worse for the more desired figures as the scalpers have to make up the difference for the lessor desired figures.
How has it been smoke and mirrors regarding the content of the Classics line up? Mattel SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING that this line would be all encompassing. That EVERYTHING ever associated with MotU would be fair game…i.e. Vintage MotU, PoP, NA, 200X, concept figures and now FILMation. I and many others LOVE that they took this approach…to say that it's smoke and mirrors and say that people don't want that is…well…to use your word…presumptuous. Because it was one of the selling points for the line. What HAS hurt the line is the various QC issues as well as Digital River.
So let's just calm down and stop the name calling. No one is delusional here.
200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!
I never heard of IAT, TNI, Pixel Dan or The Fwoosh, until I got into MOTUC....only reviews I saw were Transformers video reviews that had links posted on TFW2005, and none of those ever featured MOTUC. And when galleries were posted in TFW of the new toys as they came.
I know about well more sites after getting into MOTUC, but before....nope. Some people only collect one or two lines, and many times they only focus on the prime area to get that info, for me and Transformers....it was Seibertron, or TFW....I got all I needed there, pics, reviews, discussion, a place to post my customs....Transformers were in stores, I used HTS.com & TFsource.com for them as well, I found BBTS through a link directly to the Transformers, then I only went specifically to Transformers, nothing else, therefore I never even looked for anything else, because it wasn't at the time what I collected.
I only found out about MOTUC when a random picture of Transformers I was looking at from SDCC 2011, and someone in the background was holding something that looked like it said "Masters of the Universe, and it was a toy package I knew what I learned of to call 200X was long gone, plus they were only in stores a very short time to begin with....(turned out to be Marlena) so I looked it up, and found MOTUC....that was only a little over a year ago. It came at the right time, Transformers with the DOTM toys dried up for me, as I didn't care for them at all except the 2 I bought. MOTUC was a great transition line for me....as Transformers still has nothing that really catches my eye except the MP, but now all my budget is going to MOTUC, with exception to the 4 TMNT, the 8" Lion-O & a few Ghostbusters....I'll play catch up to Transformers after 2013....or if and when I get more money at work.
But here I am year and a half later, which because of the 2011 BF sale, it was the truly last best time to first get into this line, ever since say March to June....it's been hit and miss for anyone new, and 2013 will be a nightmare to just hear of this line. Stupid way to do business, but the perfect way to isolate a fan base, and kill a line. 2014 - 2015 may very well be the end of MOTUC as we know it....primarily due to this, and how Mattel has handled things for many of it's existing fan base, and proof is....2013 subs.
Last edited by shadowfall1976; December 27, 2012 at 12:01am.
Recent....Unnamed One & Hydron
Coming....
Wanted....Entrapa, Double Trouble, Light Hope, Filmation Hordak & Clawful
Considering....
Needed....Dragstor
Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....
Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!
I want to start collecting marvel legends,I keep emailing toy biz to go in to production on everyone I missed,but they don't reply.
Really though,this line has been around since 2008, if you are not collecting,you never will. Should hasbro release old figures?,should mcfarlane,Neca....come on guys. Really? The only gripe we should have is the qc issues which appear to be worst now. Granamyr could very well doom the line,fist will not.
And not that I want to start anything and there are other places for this talk but healthcare for everyone is fine,but you pay for yours and I'll pay for mine,just like with everything else.
Politics really do come through with toys as well,I see those that believe they deserve more and more at any cost as long as the are happy. Then there are some that do understand economics.
For the life of me I can not understand why other than granamyr issues,why these boards seem to be tearing each other apart all of the sudden.
I will say this diveded we will fall. Divided this line will fail.
Comedian on the matty forums.
EC is talking about the SUB Model...
FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Now who shall I fight for?
Have we ever been told that the Teela stock has run dry? Bearing in mind the last weapons pack had an alternative headdress for her, it would be nice and appropriate to see her on Matty again.
Much of this discussion reveals what many of us have said all along: demand for figures varies according to whichever figure you're talking about. This line definitely has its core characters and its after-thoughts. Sometimes I wonder whether Mattel adopts a blanket approach and treats all characters as being equal.
Vaults of Grayskull - www.vaultsofgrayskull.co.uk
I would love to see 2-packs come out, like Fisto Vs. Jitsu, Teela Vs. Evil-Lyn, and "New Adventures" He-Man Vs. Skeletor. There are some figures that two-packs would work well for.
"Live the journey, for every destination is but a doorway to another." --- Man-At-Arms
www.hemanworld.com
I'm sorry but yes it does seem as if people are seeing different realities here.
The smoke and mirrors covers the whole line. Character selection is a small part of the problem, and it's the it's minor point I was making.
People keep talking abrupt business, and it makes no business sense for the sub model subsidizing the lesser demanded figures. Did they make someone out there happy? Sure. And most of us fell for it back when it seemed we could go forever - "Sure, make Demo-man, since we will get to all the important/demanded characters in time. ". Now we know that's false - we likely will not see a great deal of fan demanded characters.
If you own an ice cream shop, and you can only stock 5 flavors - wouldn't you stock the five flavors that were its demanded? Would it make sense to carry less demanded flavors and force people to buy them just to get to buy the flavor they actually want?
But again, character selection (and, specifically, the person who makes it) is a minor part of all the many reasons why the very way this sub model is absurd in its current incarnation.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes. Scott said a few weeks back she was "long gone".
The figure road-map was specifically designed for longevity of the line. Characters were chosen and arranged in certain ways to allow for part re-use and a more equitable tooling cost across the entire year. This is the production business. Mattel needs the subscriptions to gauge customer interest. They can not blindly make thousands of figures and then only be able to move hundreds. I've always felt that they should have announced the entire year's line-up, but if they did that, they would lose their marketing momentum throughout the year.
I'm sorry that some fans came late to the game, but Mattel is not responsible for making more figures (at a financial loss) to help people catch up. They can't go into a minimum production (say 5000) and only be able to sell 1000. That is not how profitable business works. I can't think of ANY collectible/toy company that has done this. I don't understand why some people have such an issue with COLLECTING. If you miss the initial run, you have to go to the secondary market. That is how collecting works and part of what makes it fun.
Look at the new Jem line. The first four dolls cost around $125 and sold out within days in their preorder. They are on eBay now for up to $500. Integrity Dolls will not "re-release" them. If people want to start collecting them, they will have to go to the secondary market and pay a premium. You can't just argue that there are all these potential Jem fans out there and deserve a chance at the $125 initial offering price.
Also, please realize that the majority of the original MOTU/POP fans are now adults in their 30s/40s that have no interest in collecting toys. People have different hobbies. These same adults aren't going to magically buy $25 figures for their children either. In this economy, there are much more appropriate and cost vs time effective items to buy children.
We LOVE MOTU and in our hearts, we want others and a whole new generation to LOVE MOTU. It doesn't always work that way though. I'm glad that kids seem to be digging the new TMNT and so there is potentially hope for MOTU once they get something new off the ground. Yes, I know that some of today's kids are seeing He-Man & She-Ra on Netflix and Hulu. That isn't going to recreate the 1980s MOTU sucess though. New, and sucessful, entertainment could potentially do that.
Last edited by Kowl; December 27, 2012 at 02:24pm.
Kowl, the know it owl!
Feedback Thread: http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...ad.php?t=71871
MOTUC MOC Want List: SDCC 2008 King Grayskull
Vintage POP MOC Want List: Bubble Power She-Ra, Loo Kee, Spinnerella
True but they are dropping the production numbers it seems instead of increasing them like they said they would to accomidate the demand...Fisto (as well as others) have one run only and sold out People are crazy over getting Fisto,Castle Grayskull Man and probably Mosquitor now because they have a one and done run.And all of these people that give me the song and a dance crap about "cost" look at how many of the core characters and even not so core got a re-release and they sold out as well....
Like I said have someone from Mattel come here and give me a REAL reason why only one release and done and if you don't have a sub you have to go to E-Bay to buy them...Who does business like this?? Hasbro has re-released SW Figures as well as G.I. Joe and (I don't care if they are more popular not (That's a half assed answer...)
MOTUC has proven very good for Mattel but like I said before someone higher up is afraid of over producing these again and won't pull the trigger even though they would put money in their pockets instead of Scal-Por someone has to know that they can still make money on certain characters by the demand and seeing how much money certain characters make on E-Bay that a light bulb should go off but alas it does not.....
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