Is the demand really there? Sub sales were down, multiple purchases of subs and CG were made by customers just to safeguard they would go through. Beside the few sub holders that were screwed out of Fisto I don't think the demand is increasing but decreasing, which is why Matty is pulling the draconian sub tactics. With vintage figs almost done the line will lose a lot a cherry pickers(me being one of them) the base is shrinking. Matty knows this and knows that a Fisto reissue will end with them holding a lot of unsold stock. It happened with past reissue sand DC universe wave 5 with failed to sell out despite "everybody needing them". What we have here is a very small number of people who don't want to pay secondary prices because they are late to the game or didn't sub(sub holders who got screwed are excused).Originally Posted by Megalodon
You miss the point....(I love it how people quote someone but instead of arguing the point) they keep beating us over the head with what is written because they don't want to deviate from the same old same old...When this line started Mattel was going to increase production to meet demand now they are limiting the product even though demand is their and don't give me that BS about the numbers from a sub because ALOT of people buy on day of and if adequate stock was available they would sell more...really
They are just too scared to pull the trigger because of the influx of Vintage figures and 2002 Smash Blade He-Man's & Spin Blade Skeletor's were out there in their time that flooded the market you mean to tell me that someone doesn't have enough brains to figure out how to up production without going overboard???I find that hard to believe these guys get paid good money to figure this out..(People keep forgetting about this part)
Castle Greyskull was a pre-order and it got thru to it being made next year now saying that if Mattel (By those pre-order numbers) gets orders for 500 CG just from that alone that's all they are going to make???
No that doesn't make any sense if they order 500 make a little more for defects (Which we know are going to happen) and some extra stock for the matty site..Funny thing is that you spend all of this money on making the molds, paying the 4H to sculpt it,packaging expense etc. and you only make one run of that??? If your going to do a one and done you should have made this known in 2008 not 2012-13 and on...They want them to sell out in 1-2 hours and if it's up for 6-7 days my god it's a failure!!! (Even though all of those figurers sold out too) it's an excuse and I would be ****** off at Mattel if I had a sub because if this is the case then alot of people are going to get screwed down the line when this happens again....
I sure did. Did you notice that MM and Stratos both got re-issued for the tru sets? Or that Mer-Man's first sale was one of the worst stuff ups in the history of the line? Did you happen to notice that they didn't fix stratos when they re-issued him? That not gluing the wings would be another sku... Even though they did it with the tru version? And really Syklone is a z lister.
It has nothing to do with demand for Fisto...
I actually think you skipped my points, but anyways...
I'll repeat this once again. They have a set number they want to produce, so that they know they will get everything or as close to everything as they can sold. Every item that is left over is a lot of loss for them.
So yes REALLY, they will keep their orders as close to what they think will sell, trying to figure out the popularity of one figure over another is extremely hard, even us hardcore fans miss completely there most of the time.
They are trying to sell the line, not figure by figure, which was my argument all along.
I work in a company that does estimates just like this. And it's not a perfect science by a long shot. Doing something like this for Action figures would be even harder, especially with a brand as old as He-man - if you are going by a figure to figure basis. So yes, they are too scared to lose money on having extra stock piling up on warehouses costing them more money then they are getting in. Warehouse space costs a lot of money these days, especially if you are keeping stock "indefinitely".They are just too scared to pull the trigger because of the influx of Vintage figures and 2002 Smash Blade He-Man's & Spin Blade Skeletor's were out there in their time that flooded the market you mean to tell me that someone doesn't have enough brains to figure out how to up production without going overboard???
Precisely. They had a minimum to be met, or it wouldn't get made at all. This is their sales projection. If they hit it they gain money, if it falls short, they lose money, so they won't make it, that was the whole point of the pre-order.
Just like what they tried to do with Superboy and that Martian Girl from Young Justice (which did not get made because demand was too low, so they didn't hit their sales minimum).
Yes, and this is why subbing is playing the safe game - Even if they managed to mess things up with Fisto. As far as I know that's the only figure they have missed the mark so completely with.
Exactly this is the one time - that I can remember that they messed so completely up. Did it ever happen again? I don't think so, I'm sure people here can correct me if I am wrong however.
This is dreamland. That would be a bigger loss financially for them. They probably did look at their numbers, did an estimate of how many sales for a sub it would cost them and figured out that it would cost them more to correct this specific mistake - Companies do this all the time, it's cutting the losses early.
Yes they are to blame for the Fisto Fiasco, indeed. But did they learn from it is what I am saying at this point?
Again no company is perfect and the bottom line here is money.
And to be honest, a couple of hundred subs where maybe half don't re-sub probably isn't much of a loss to them.
People seem to constantly forget that this side-project is just that. A side-project, which has gained some popularity now. Up to this very day we have no idea of sales numbers, estimated sales numbers, numbers of people subbing or cherry picking, all we can do is pure conjecture and theorize about numbers. The little information that I have come with is from real world experience, and it really is not as cut and dry as many people want it to be.
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Here's a question your quoting multiple people to defend Mattel & DR....Why???
A problem exists and it will get worse alot of people see this as a BAD thing........
And I love how fans talking about toys always brings out the "experts" that have to defend what a company does (Even when they don't work for them)
So now you are attacking me?Here's a question your quoting multiple people to defend Mattel & DR....Why???
A problem exists and it will get worse alot of people see this as a BAD thing........
And I love how fans talking about toys always brings out the "experts" that have to defend what a company does (Even when they don't work for them)
I never claimed to be an expert, I have no idea where you got that from. I said I have real world experience with something similar.
I am not defending matty and DR at all, I am trying to explain what it's actually about. If you have read my comments at all you would see that I agree that bad QC and the Fisto Fiasco was their mistake all along. I am not making any kind of excuse for them, but I'm trying to let you guys in on what it's really about. - And to be perfectly honest. This problem does not exist and will not get worse, it has happened one time to to my knowledge.
Please take your non-objective views on this away from me and look at what I actually wrote again.
Unfortunately, you are saying what most people on these boards don't want to hear, so you will get lots of hate as well. Heck, I might get hate for agreeing with you. People are used to demanding something and getting it. Look, the Fisto thing was a MAJOR ****-up, but the high ups at Mattel saw that reissues weren't selling ACROSS THE BOARD so they stopped doing it. Scott could go to bat on a second run of Fisto, but would most likely be rejected. This is just one of those times where things didn't go well and that is the way it is. I feel bad for those that didn't get the figure they were promised, but without a Delorean, we are SOL.
Jeremy Soronen
My Collection
Guys, lets turn it down a few notches and be more respectful towards each other. thanks.
I bought two subscriptions. At the time, I was still under the impression that my 2 Fistos would be sent to me, but it was never resolved. After 5 phone calls to Digital River, I just gave up. That said, I still love the line, and I'm not going to stop buying the figures. However, in 2014 and beyond, I will only be buying one subscription per year.
Last edited by Captain Atkin; December 31, 2012 at 11:13pm.
"We must always value life. Even the life of one who opposes us." --- He-Man
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I too have had retail experience (both management and worker) and I could throw around facts and figures too but this isn't a fact checker it's a truth checker you can throw numbers out all day it still doesn't come to down to the TRUTH. Unless you work for a company on the inside it's not as cut & dry and you think it's someone higher up that:
A.Doesn't like the brand
B.Doesn't have faith in the brand
C.Only see dollars and cents as the only bottom line
D.Doesn't know or doesn't want to be involved with the brand (Advertising,etc.)
E.Wished it would go away because it's not called Barbie Or Hot Wheels
I've been thru it and seen it many times before the line is making money but they don't want to put too much money or resources into it like they did in the past with the other two lines and that's their own fault and us as the consumer are paying for it....
Oh and if it wasn't making the money it is they would have canned it long time ago
Here's another tidbit you spend money on the Filmation library and other properties so you can make other characters or looks and they only used that process on a totally new figure that was Shadow Weaver.Now with Fang Man coming you mean your going to limited his production as well as others from that library just because you "think" it might be dog seller??? Then why did you spend the money on rights when your not going to make enough figures to cover the cost of that license because all it's being used for right now is to make figures so no cross branded or other merchandise to offset the cost doesn't make sense...
Last edited by Megalodon; December 31, 2012 at 11:33pm.
This brand and company has more at stake than a side project. Bad PR has been rampant on every aspect of this line. If it isn't that important, they should have gone out of their way to make sure everyone received their Fisto who had a subscription, and then cancelled the line. If you think it makes more sense to have every toy collector in the world talk bad about matty than to fix these glaring issues I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Defending matty's ineptness is your right I guess, but it seems odd how much effort you are putting into it. If you are just trying to explain why they are inept to everyone else, I do think you have your work cut out for you.
EXACTLY!!! This is why the Reissue Fisto issue is not just a simple, run of the mill reissue request and Scott needs to see this. There was a clear double-pronged error on Matty's part with first clearly under producing the fig (fast sell out, and the fact that there are not many on the secondary market to be had bears this out), and then screwing up the shipments. When not all SUB HOLDERS got a Fisto then I don't see how that's not some type of breech of contract when the contract was for an ALL IN sub.
Even if they loose some money re-producing the fig (which I doubt they would) it should be justified since they would really just be correcting their own error.
Why is it perfectly fine for them to take a loss by giving out free figs due to a Frosta blemish, which IMO is a MUCH lesser issue than a Sub Holder not getting all the figs they paid up front for?!?
And for those saying we shouldn't be acting like Matty owes us something....BS!! This is an adult collector line, a lot of us have a complete MOC collection...they owe us Sub holders that did not get a Fisto, a Fisto!! I'm still wondering why I subbed in 2013 when I now have an incomplete collection, and clearly buying a Sub does NOT guarantee us every fig!!
Last edited by eCollector; January 4, 2013 at 02:56pm.
Personally, I think that the Fisto thing was unconscionable on Matty's part. I subscribed and received my figure, but I really feel for all those who didn't. Matty really, really dropped the ball on this one, and should understand why a simple refund would not satisfy so many customers. I haven't seen a poll to the effect, but is it possible that Fisto is the reason why sub numbers dropped so precipitously. I mean, I can understand why people refuse to sub under such circumstances. I don't know if I would refuse to sub, but maybe I would if it happened to me. On a more positive note, I think that Fisto and Stinkor issues were some things that pushed Matty over the edge to make up for the Frosta fiasco. I'm just sorry people like you did not get what you really wanted. Just for good publicity, Matty should reconsider a second run for Fisto, at least for subscribers.
Having said that, simple economics explains why it is more cost effective to send out a free figure for Frosta and not to run a second batch of Fistos.
1. They have already produced the surplus figures they are giving away, so no more initial cost is needed.
2. They can add these to the shipments already going out, meaning that they eat very little of the additional shipping needed. We're paying most of it already.
On the other hand, if they run a second batch of Fistos:
1. There is the cost of production, which will not be recouped even if they charge subscribers who need a Fisto.
2. They have already paid processing costs to refund your money.
3. They have to pay additional processing costs to charge you again, on top of the original processing costs they paid to charge you the first time.
So that adds up for a bigger bottom-line loss in the present.
Now, I don't think Matty should make all its decisions based on an immediate loss. They aren't taking into account the harm it does to brand loyalty, which hurts them more in the long run. But in the short run, it is cheaper for them not to produce a Fisto.
"Mattel's policy of things being seen as a failure if they don't sell out in minutes still annoys the hell out of me." .org Member paulioscorchio
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If they do, they will be made with Black Plastic. Mwah-ha-ha!
Jeremy Soronen
My Collection
Ok, so Mattel (ToyGuru) has made their stance today (well recently). So, Let's wait a year and see what the pulse is like for Fisto (and Sorceress, Teela, etc) at that time? I SERIOUSLY doubt that demand will decline. I expect it will double by Jan 2014 and a 2nd run of popular figs (that will have been out of production for an appropriate amount of time) will be a slam dunk by that point. I say Patience. Let's try that and see what we get.
Take it easy,
Drew
Looking for: deals on MOTUC Panthor, Teela, Sorceress, Whiplash and more!
Have to trade: A couple MOTU vintage, GIJOE (vintage 3.75 inch and 25th Anniversary figures and vehicles), Star Wars, Transformers (movie line), and Marvel Universe and a few Marvel Legends, plus MORE!.
darthdrew13's B/S/T
Spoken like a true Jedi ("I suggest patience").
They weren't rereleased as in remade, they just didn't really sell out in the first place.
This is all perfect.
Well, if they don't re-release Fisto as a figure separately, I hope that they would consider releasing him packaged with Stridor when they eventually make him. Something like what they did in the original series.
Would probably be a good way to ensure strong sales for Stridor.
"We must always value life. Even the life of one who opposes us." --- He-Man
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^ I like the way you think. That would be great for those who missed out. I have one, but would buy another so 200x could be displayed all the time.
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This is what I was trying to say who said they couldn't re-do certain figures??
Thye did it in the vintage line they did it in 2002 hell even Hasbro does/did it with their Star Wars/G.I. Joe Lines....
Also, maybe Scott (TG) needs to pitch the idea of a Re-Issue Sub???
If Filmation and 30th Anniv had 6 figure subs, Why not a 6 figure Re-Issue Sub? We could possibly get...
Fisto
Sorceress
Teela
Shadow Weaver
Beast Man
BA Faker
or others... maybe we'd get to vote on who made it in?
I see this as a great way to follow the current model (Subs) and also save Mattel money as these are re-issues that require NOTHING to work up. Thoughts?
Take it easy,
Drew
Looking for: deals on MOTUC Panthor, Teela, Sorceress, Whiplash and more!
Have to trade: A couple MOTU vintage, GIJOE (vintage 3.75 inch and 25th Anniversary figures and vehicles), Star Wars, Transformers (movie line), and Marvel Universe and a few Marvel Legends, plus MORE!.
darthdrew13's B/S/T
I have 2 Fistos already. I don't want him packed in with Stridor. That's a deal breaker for me.
Really?! I have a Fisto already, but if they packed him in with Stridor I wouldn't complain! I don't see that ever happening of course! Maybe a pre-accident Fisto.......
Last edited by He-Dad; February 16, 2013 at 02:16am.
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You know why??? Because the price wouls go down and people couldn't charge $150-200 for him...
There is a Fisto on ebay right now for $205!! That's disgraceful! .... it's probably ToyGuru
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