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Thread: Fisto - Re-released ?

  1. #101
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    I didn't "miss the point", you just keep ignoring that there are additional costs involved with producing a figure. You can't ignore labor, you can't ignore oil (which effects the price of goods and shipping and this is ALWAYS increasing). Just because the molds and design work is done doesn't mean that they can just produce a lower run. The factory most likely has minimum run requirements in order for it to even be profitable for them as well. There are more entities involved than just us and Mattel…and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
    Actually the price of oil fluctuates....it doesn't always increase, if so, we'd be paying $10+ a gallon for regular unleaded now, and Jiffy Lube would be charging $50 for basic oil changes....so blaming the rising price of the figures on plastic / petrol....isn't very realistic....labor may be going up, but not in huge jumps, yes China workers want more money, because they manufacture everything, pretty soon it''l be time to move factories to Ethiopia or something, some place cheaper....or hell for what China is wanting....bring the factories back home, we have plenty of manufacturing still here that disproves the whole American workers won't get paid much or prices will be too high arguments. There's more still made here than most think.

    But the main point is, Oil is not a constantly rising price as I said, if it were, pump prices would have never dropped below $4 again, they would still be cheaper, and hell, here in Monroe Co, MI....gas is like $3.29 as opposed to $4 just a few months ago....

    Yes, it does cost more to make smaller batches, 5000 vs 10,000 (figures would cost more because of this), but worldwide....10,000 units is nothing for a figure that was short produced in the first place such as Fisto. He has 2 heads, 2 looks about him, subscribers were shorted him in the first place, and he's going for like $70 on Ebay, when you can find a listing for him....A figure like Buzz Off or Carnivus....no, overly bad idea....but Teela, Fisto are 2 that I cna think of that would sell....Teela more so as a 2.0 though I think.

    No Snake stuff, Filmation sword and head, and removable tunics would be cool so swap her back and forth from Filmation to Vintage....I think that's all the acc's she'd need....2 tunics and a sword. 1.0 would supply the Vintage head, Snake armor and other Vintage stuff.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; December 28, 2012 at 06:12pm.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Atkin View Post
    Alright... taking this back to the FISTO discussion for a moment. In 2012, I paid for two subscriptions, with the reasonable expectation that I would recieve all of the figures in those paid subscriptions. For reasons that were never been made clear to me by Digital River (and to a number of other unlucky subscription holders expecting Fisto,) I never recieved the figure that I was initally promised. Some people might enjoy the "fun" of collecting by searching for figures online, but I didn't pay for two subscriptions just to have to go search the secondary market for Fisto at jacked up prices. Now, the question for me any many other people remains: what happened with Fisto? Where there not enough of the figure made to honour the subscriptions? Did Digital River screw up the initial orders? In any case, a lot of subcription holders did not receive the figure, and I think for that reason alone, they should be looking at doing a second run of Fisto. Especially if they want those loyal subcribers to continue buying into Club Eternia.
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  3. #103
    USF Bull chuc98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Actually the price of oil fluctuates....it doesn't always increase, if so, we'd be paying $10+ a gallon for regular unleaded now, and Jiffy Lube would be charging $50 for basic oil changes....so blaming the rising price of the figures on plastic / petrol....isn't very realistic....labor may be going up, but not in huge jumps, yes China workers want more money, because they manufacture everything, pretty soon it''l be time to move factories to Ethiopia or something, some place cheaper....or hell for what China is wanting....bring the factories back home, we have plenty of manufacturing still here that disproves the whole American workers won't get paid much or prices will be too high arguments. There's more still made here than most think..
    True, it does fluctuate…but just because it's going down here in the states doesn't mean it's going down elsewhere. Ten years ago when I went to the U.S.V.I. the price for gas was $4.00+ and there's an oil refinery there! It's been $6.00-$7.00 a gallon in Europe for years. We have it easy here compared to other places. I can only imagine what it's like in China where the demand for gas is VERY high.

    And actually, what U.S. companies are rediscovering is that it's actually as cheap if not cheaper to produce their products stateside because American workers are much more productive than their Chinese counterparts.
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  4. #104
    Make Prahvus please!! marndt8448's Avatar
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    I understand Mattel's reluctance to do more reissues, but I don't get why such a main character like Teela couldn't be reissued and sold as an 'Essential' figure that's available all the time like He-man, Skeletor, etc. Surely she'd sell enough units if she was always available like the other essential figures, no?






    ....and like CC asked way back on page 1, where the heck did all those Fistos go that didn't get packaged in a Fisto white mailer (because all those Sorceresses did instead)?
    It's going to be one of life's great mysteries, kind of like what exactly was the move Ric Flair was trying to do off the top rope (but got caught every time instead).

  5. #105
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    I didn't "miss the point", you just keep ignoring that there are additional costs involved with producing a figure. You can't ignore labor, you can't ignore oil (which effects the price of goods and shipping and this is ALWAYS increasing). Just because the molds and design work is done doesn't mean that they can just produce a lower run. The factory most likely has minimum run requirements in order for it to even be profitable for them as well. There are more entities involved than just us and Mattel…and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
    The only constraint on producing second runs should be minimum factory orders, whatever they may be. All fixed costs have already been incurred, I should think. Now it's just a matter of variable costs vs potential orders.
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  6. #106
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    No Snake stuff, Filmation sword and head, and removable tunics would be cool so swap her back and forth from Filmation to Vintage....I think that's all the acc's she'd need....2 tunics and a sword. 1.0 would supply the Vintage head, Snake armor and other Vintage stuff.
    This. would. be. Awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    The only constraint on producing second runs should be minimum factory orders, whatever they may be. All fixed costs have already been incurred, I should think. Now it's just a matter of variable costs vs potential orders.
    You're forgetting the paint applications, packaging, packing, and shipping (distribution). All these duties need people to perform them, people who also want to be paid.
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  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    You're forgetting the paint applications, packaging, packing, and shipping (distribution). All these duties need people to perform them, people who also want to be paid.
    I'm not forgetting them. The first big barrier to producing any number of goods is fixed costs - often a very high initial expenditure that is not made back until after many products have been sold. Paint applications, packaging, packing and shipping are all variable costs (costs that scale with the batch size, as opposed to fixed costs, which are the same regardless of batch size), and can all be tucked neatly into a per-unit operations expense.

    In the case of reissues, the high initial fixed cost should have already been paid for with the first run. In theory, producing even one additional figure after fixed costs are recouped should be profitable. But as has been pointed out, we don't know what their minimum batch size is at the factory, so that could be the major reason they're reluctant to rerun sold-out figures. The minimum batch size may exceed expected demand for reissue sales.

    At the very least, though, they should put out more Fisto figures for the subscribers who didn't get them, even if they have to take a loss to do it.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnster View Post
    You can accuse people of missing your points as long and often as you want.

    The one point you are not getting is:

    Re-Releases are not going to happen.
    Uh-huh.

    And neither is Grayskull, except in a movie year.

    And high fan-demanded characters will never be a sub-exclusive.

    And there will never be perpetual sale-stock of MOTUC on the website ("essentials").

    And the subscription page will be up in "a few weeks" (from a year ago).

    And...


    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    I didn't "miss the point", you just keep ignoring that there are additional costs involved with producing a figure. You can't ignore labor, you can't ignore oil (which effects the price of goods and shipping and this is ALWAYS increasing). Just because the molds and design work is done doesn't mean that they can just produce a lower run. The factory most likely has minimum run requirements in order for it to even be profitable for them as well. There are more entities involved than just us and Mattel…and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
    OK, let me simplify this for you.

    Yes, there are costs involved. As I said, we can break it down as far as the tip money the driver of the truck leaves the girl at the lunch counter he has lunch at. I'm not ignoring that, but it's inane to sit and list them down to the minutae and *completely* besides the point. Let me break it down in the simplest terms possible:

    1) We have been told that, by far, the largest cost is incurred in getting these figures to us is making the steel molds.

    2) They were able to produce those molds, and *everything else you are mentioning*, and deliver them to us at a $20 price point.

    3) If the most expensive part of the process, making those molds (and paying the 4H to design them, Mattel R&D to articulate the designs, etc.) all the back-end work, is done, there is significantly less cost in "turning the machines back on", and then going through the rest of the packaging/delivery process.

    4) If they were able to do all of that (from start to finish) and deliver the figures at a $20 price point, then surely, eliminating the most costly part of the process, they could deliver reissues of demanded figures at the higher price point of $27, or even $30.

    Get it? They did all the stuff you mentioned PLUS all the initial work/molds/etc. for $20, surely there can be some profit made by only replicating the second half of the process when they can sell it now for an even higher price point.

    So you don't need to break down every step since all the steps after the mold creation were included in the first batch, as well - it's really simple. Lower cost to produce now vs. originally, + higher price point, means that even at lower quantities they could still make money - probably more than originally.

    That's why preorders are the solution. If they don't get enough preorders, no harm, no foul. No risk at all on their part.

  9. #109
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    Guys, we're making this too complicated. I don't agree with everything that Mattel has done. Reissues of Carnivus and Gygor were clearly bad ideas, based largely on Mattel's assumption that everyone was a completist. But if Mattel could sell more product, they would. They've reissued absolutely core characters such as Trap Jaw, one of the best figures in the line; Mer-Man, another gem; She-Ra, a core character for many elements of the mythos; Battle Cat, probably the best toy of 2010, and much more. If Mattel could not sell these core characters, they are not going to sell enough Fistos to make it worth their while. I reckon that only Teela and the Sorceress might sell anywhere near the quota they want or need. We may not like it; we may complain about marketing; but collecting high-end expensive toys is not a common hobby. Transformers only succeeds and throws older fans a bone every now and again because of huge interest in the Japanese collector market and enough sales of the main retail line. He-Man cannot currently pull that off, and until there is a major media presence again, it won't happen.

    All that's to say is that it boils down to simple math. As much as I love this line, people in general don't want He-Man toys. And those who are not into toys right now are certainly not going to start becoming toy collectors at $25–$30 a pop for new figures straight from Mattel without any markup. At least not enough to warrant second runs. Heck, the price increase this year even drove some die hard subbers to become cherry pickers. This line is not a huge moneymaker for Mattel, and it won't be until a hit movie or cartoon raises the profile of the property. There are a handful of employees at Mattel who believe in it, but the company as a whole does not. Given the brand history, that is not surprising, even if we can point to missteps on Mattel's part.

    I wish Mattel would push the property more, but they are not going to until a movie year. And I don't mean to sound a note of doom. If we're getting Grayskull, then there are legs to the property. It's just stuck at this weird place of having enough die-hard fans to keep it chugging along but not enough to make it a huge profit generator. We should be glad it is at that point. How many other properties cannot even accomplish that? Consider how things are for Thundercats fans, not to mention other popular 80s properties that have had NO revival such as M.A.S.K.
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  10. #110
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    I think you hit the nail on the head there perfectly, Skystalker. I think He-man fans are great, but if we think a retail line could be supported at this point we're deluding ourselves. There are issues with the line, Mattel and Digital River... no doubt... but it's a miracle this line exists. That doesn't mean we should just accept when issues arrive, but delving into some fantasy land where Mattel can magically make these figures popular at retail for a lower price doesn't accomplish much.

    I also think what happened with Fisto was awful. At the same time, doing an entirely new production run given your basic MOQ's these days... just doesn't seem realistic. Our best bet is a different Fisto somewhere down the line. Although I can't think of a clever variant off the top of my head. Maybe offer him with a patched up face and arm, like in the 200X episode? Maybe as an exclusive for Power-Con?
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  11. #111
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    They could have a Fisto with a Different Armor(Full Armor so he doesn't need the Silver Flat-Abs) WITHOUT his Huge Sword. Maybe a second Mini Comic Head with the Longer hair and a swappable right hand (Since his fist pops off easily) so you can have a Pre-Accident Malcom. Add an extra accessory to make it an incentive for those who Already have a Fisto to double-dip on him
    FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Now I need a Crita!! Crita is to Mara what Evil Lyn is to Teela. If we ARE getting Mara, then we NEED Crita.

  12. #112
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    packaged with Strider. new armor to hold his normal sword and no flat/silver abs

  13. #113
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Yeah....that would work, and the Fisto would be perfect....to me.
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  14. #114
    Heroic Warrior Umbloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimnarious View Post
    packaged with Strider. new armor to hold his normal sword and no flat/silver abs
    Packaging him with stridor would be brilliant. Easy way for Mattel to double dip on profits, and people can get there Fisto. But it would cost around $60 ( $33 beast and $27 figure together). But at least you would have the option off getting him again.

    That was really smart, hopefully Mattel will see the profit potential.
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  15. #115
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Stridor would be a nice incentive to doubledip on Fisto...
    FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Now I need a Crita!! Crita is to Mara what Evil Lyn is to Teela. If we ARE getting Mara, then we NEED Crita.

  16. #116
    Always Hungry.... Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DO4M View Post
    Stridor would be a nice incentive to doubledip on Fisto...
    Well they should do it with Jitsu/Night Stalker as well because we know he's going to be sold out fast as well....

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DO4M View Post
    Stridor would be a nice incentive to doubledip on Fisto...
    While that sounds like a great idea, and would definitely help all of those that missed out on Fisto either by missing out on the DOS or not actually getting him on the sub, most collectors would flip over the price tag, and having to pay for an extra Fisto when they already have him. You know how it is. Most would feel it unfair for Mattel to be forcing them to buy a figure they already have just to get Stridor. It happened with a free figure (the Frosta thing), so you know they would definitely complain about this.

    I, for one, would get Stridor AND Fisto if they came packaged together, and I already have a Fisto.

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior Nekk-ra's Avatar
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    The Fisto/Stridor two-pack is a great idea. And count me among the subscribers who had to go to the secondary market to get a Fisto.
    Classics TGR figures should be Filmation-based, but they NEED MORE COWBELL!

  19. #119
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancho View Post
    While that sounds like a great idea, and would definitely help all of those that missed out on Fisto either by missing out on the DOS or not actually getting him on the sub, most collectors would flip over the price tag, and having to pay for an extra Fisto when they already have him. You know how it is. Most would feel it unfair for Mattel to be forcing them to buy a figure they already have just to get Stridor. It happened with a free figure (the Frosta thing), so you know they would definitely complain about this.

    I, for one, would get Stridor AND Fisto if they came packaged together, and I already have a Fisto.
    and this is why I previously suggested making a Fisto different enough to the Previous Fisto Release.
    Quote Originally Posted by DO4M View Post
    They could have a Fisto with a Different Armor(Full Armor so he doesn't need the Silver Flat-Abs) WITHOUT his Huge Sword. Maybe a second Mini Comic Head with the Longer hair and a swappable right hand (Since his fist pops off easily) so you can have a Pre-Accident Malcom. Add an extra accessory to make it an incentive for those who Already have a Fisto to double-dip on him
    Stridor would be the Perfect accessory to make people double-Dip on Fisto. (Assuming this Fisto is Different enough from the First Fisto)... to reduce SOME of the complaints... and to "fix" some "issues" some people have.

    Same thing could be done for Jitsu and Nightstalker like adding a second head (Filmation or a 200X Inspired Jitsu head.) Perhaps a repainted sword. Orange Hilt and silver blade and maybe a Vac Gold hand.
    FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Now I need a Crita!! Crita is to Mara what Evil Lyn is to Teela. If we ARE getting Mara, then we NEED Crita.

  20. #120
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    If they didn't pack in the 200X head and belt and remolded the back piece without the holster he'd be different and still appealing to people who already got him.
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  21. #121
    Heroic Subscriber He-Dude's Avatar
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    Yes... but then there would be a whole other group to chime in with complaints...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    If they didn't pack in the 200X head and belt and remolded the back piece without the holster he'd be different and still appealing to people who already got him.
    For more money?? Nah... bad idea.

  22. #122
    sculptor - fantastique JimPansen's Avatar
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    YES! A rerelease with an Alcala head and without the ugly swordholder thingy on his back!!!

  23. #123
    Always Hungry.... Megalodon's Avatar
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    Here's a dumb question...Why is it when alot of people can't get him because of crazy circumstances (or any other figure) alot of fans that have the sub act likes snobs because "If you had a sub you would have had him" Really???

    We did toy collecting become a dog eat dog everyman for himself???

    It's like they only care about what they get and screw everyone else...What happened??


  24. #124
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dude View Post
    Yes... but then there would be a whole other group to chime in with complaints...

    - - - Updated - - -

    For more money?? Nah... bad idea.
    Er, no I meant with Stridor. Not as a single-packed figure. Gotta read the context the post is made in.
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  25. #125
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    I wish Mattel would push the property more, but they are not going to until a movie year. And I don't mean to sound a note of doom. If we're getting Grayskull, then there are legs to the property. It's just stuck at this weird place of having enough die-hard fans to keep it chugging along but not enough to make it a huge profit generator. We should be glad it is at that point. How many other properties cannot even accomplish that? Consider how things are for Thundercats fans, not to mention other popular 80s properties that have had NO revival such as M.A.S.K.
    I am in total agreement. I was one of the TC fans who did back-flips when Bandai announced their plans for a new line AND an accompanying Classic line. I was ecstatic when I got Lion-O and Tygra, then............. nothing. No Cheetara, Panthro, Thunderkittens, Mutants,....... zip, ziltch!

    As MOTU fans, we should be pretty happy that the classics line has blossomed into such a wonderful collection. Back in 2008, who would've thought that we would get a Granamyr figure?!? Or a Castle Grayskull?!?!?!? It is the fans who are the life-blood of this line, and every one of us should be proud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimnarious View Post
    packaged with Strider. new armor to hold his normal sword and no flat/silver abs
    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    If they didn't pack in the 200X head and belt and remolded the back piece without the holster he'd be different and still appealing to people who already got him.
    Back on topic:

    This is a BRILLIANT idea. I would be more than happy to get an extra Fisto figure along with Stridor - even at an extra expense. As Jon says, he could easily come without the 200X extras that the original did, and while there may be complaints, I think the overwhelming majority would be extremely happy (especially those who didn't get him the first time around...)
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