If he became a Viking, then yes, a barbarian, no.
Again, not bashing the show, I just feel that the 'too kiddie' complaint can be a valid one to an extent, as it was one I had even back then. .....And that's not me saying it's a bad thing, it obviously increased the range of the target audience by doing so.
If he became a Viking, then yes, a barbarian, no.
Filmation had the coolest animation and most amazing backgrounds, but the stories were boring for me even as a kid...
To an awful lot of non-fans out there who remember He-Man casually from their childhoods, Filmation is MOTU to them. So I believe the answer to the OP’s question is no. Filmation helped turn MOTU into a billion dollar brand. I don't think the brand would have been given that label if He-Man had just stayed a plain barbarian.
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What does Timm's style have to do with Gargoyles?
And you are trying to compare anatomically incorrect toons between Batman and He-Man? Do you not see the size of the muscles on the He-Man characters? How about the way characters "run" in Filmation's world?
BTW, I take story telling over animation style, and Gargoyles and Batman have the greatest story telling ever in the world of cartoons. And until He-Man uses a character getting another hero of the show shot by accident for playing with a gun and utilize it as a story about why you should not play with guns, I will never consider it a great cartoon. In fact, the writers for Filmation were too scared to do anything with weapons period.
I'm also not sure where you came up with the Americanime from, as I was not even referring to anything that uses the Japanese style. I was talking about shows like Samurai Jack, Justice League, JLU, Brave and the Bold, Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Courage the Cowardly Dog, etc.
Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
I might not be so big on Filmation, but I can be fair, Whiplash.
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Maybe MOTU would have only lasted three to four years without Filmation. Who knows? But those first four were the best anyway. It was pretty awful near the end.
Big IMHO disclaimer, of course.
Now with that said, you must look at this while paying attention to the FCC Regulations issue. He-Man was one of the first cartoons to exploit these changes in the regulations that allowed more "action oriented shows" If you check out most 70s cartoons you'll see the huge amount of "Scooby clones" that were made due to these regulations. Not to mention how some comic book based cartoons got "castrated" Flintstones Meet the Thing, and the fantastic Four with HERBIE instead of Human torch come to mind
(though the Torch issue is a bit more muddled) Gargoyles, the entire DCAU WERE POSSIBLE as they were thanks to Filmation's MOTU, Sunbow's Transformers and GI Joe and others that slowly were pushing the boundaries. Filmation's He-Man was crucified by multiple watchdog groups for being "Too Violent".
Had Gargoyles been made in the 80s Xanatos would have been a big buffoon and his name would not have been David Xanatos... (watchdog groups would have complained about it, cause guy's named David Death and his enemy is Goliath) The Famous Broadway Shooting Elisa episode would have never happened. The DCAU from the 90s and beyond would have been more like the Superfriends. Again due to the regulations from the FCC and pressure from watchdog groups.
Filmation's lack of story arcs is due to the show being made straight for Syndication and not every place shows the shows in the correct order in order to avoid confusing the viewers most of Filmation's episodes are self-contained. Other shows kept overarching stories that were screwed up when the episodes were aired out of order.
Now Filmation abused the reuse of animation (stock animation) and many of their animations were made by Rotoscoping (drawing over film footage of live actors in order to get more realistic movements.) So in a way if you find the way the characters move in Filmation you have to blame the limitations of the human bodies used y the animators.
Sirsniffy's mention of armericanime comes from it being one of the multiple styles used today. We rarely see cartoons where the characters have somewhat realistic proportions like in the 80s like MOTU or GI JOE (which is almost vintage americanime since it was made overseas almost mimicking the american style, but some details reveal it's eastern nature) Usually those who try and keep somewhat realistic proportions for their characters are using the Anime inspired style. MYP's MOTU, 2011 thundercats, etc.
The other alternative we have is the weird totally unrealistic (deformed looking) styles like Foster's home for Imaginary Friends, Powerpuff girls, Johnny Test, Dini's DCAU style, etc.
With all that said, to answer your Original question: The whole barbarian He-Man with the 2 halves of the sword and all that would have been TOO similar to Blackstar and wouldn't have worked as well
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Both characters are definitely NOT generic. (But that is an argument for another time...)
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I am a bit younger than you, and I didn't have the same perception.
I found the stories, at the time, quite "real.". Kind of like how I watch Game of Thrones today. The stakes are higher. It's fantasy, but i am drawn in by the characters and the plot.
That age range timing is key to how a fan might remember Filmation, and the rest of the brand.
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It is hard to say what would have may have happened. But at the very least, he-Man never felt totally "Conan" to me. Sure the early mini comics used more "Conan-esque" language than the cartoon did, but it always combined barbarian/fantasy elements with a bit of sci-fi flavor. Even in the comic where He-man slays that creature (Ram-man comic) he is driving along in a vehicle.
I think the combination of these elements is what made MOTU stand out. Conan was cool, and nothing against it, but it was only fantasy. MOTU had a big mysterious skull faced castle with all kinds of powers AND a freaking laser turret!
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Believe me, I'm a big fan of both Conan and Tarzan. The first comics I ever read as a kid were the Tarzan comics from the 50's and I enjoyed them a great deal. However, when compared to He-Man and The Masters of the Universe, I believe both Conan and Tarzan are generic, or rather plain in comparison.
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I think this is a serious matter of opinion.
Gargoyles was awesome. I really loved that show. At least the FIRST season. Once they 'teamed up with Xantos' and they got into the goliath chronicles I thought it dropped fast.
Batman TAS???? I'm in the camp that I HATED the animation in that. I still picked up the first season, but MAN.... that did NOT age well. I REALLY remember it being COOLER when it first came out. Really, 30 minutes and less is NOT enough time to come up with a mystery, follow clues and beat the bad guy... it is VERY simplistic watched now... Even by JL time they started getting into mostly 2-parters.... But BTAS? That was hardly the pinnacle of animated writing.,...
I also am amazed that you mentioned Thundercats... That was another one we bought the first couple boxed sets based on heavy nostalgia... They also did NOT age well... I still love them in my memory, and HATE when I see 'new costumes' and 'reimagining' of them... but the story and voice acting was... HARSh...
Whereas, He-man... I see it as more simplistic then I did back in the day, but I still enjoy it enough to watch wth the nephews whenever I can... and GI JOE?? I still think the stories on those hold up well too. They still seem fairly serious even WITHOUT the logical casualties that should be there. PROBABLY the lack of the 'cute fluffy sidekick' that the 80's were swamped with.
One thing that I love to point out about Filmation... They started the show in syndication with a MASSIVE amount of episodes. For all the 'awesomeness' that BTAS was... they only got 85 episodes over 3 seasons. Gargoyles? 61 episodes over 2 seasons.. Even MYP, 2 seasons... 39 Episodes...
Even Thundarr... 2 seasons... 26 episodes..
He-man? 130 episodes in 2 seasons. And that's NOT counting the She-ra crossovers and movies....
Did filmation cut some corners and kiddify things a bit??? Sure! Did they produce MORE episodes than any 'modern' series.... YEP!!!
This is one of the differences between old days, and new days.... they cut corners and skimped on things back THEN too.... But the customers actually GOT something for it
Fyi... for those who don't know Blackstar...
This is pretty much what a prefilmation cartoon would have looked like... it got about 13 episodes in one seasons.... Everything He-man has.... Except he traded a tiger for a DRAGON!!!
Barbarian or not, Filmation didn´t matter at all in the success of MotU in Germany.
Think about that!
I personally never cared for the dual identity thing as a kid. I had been fine without it with the toys and mini comics. The world they presented was creepy and creepy and felt so grown compared to my young age and then the show really didn't as much.(I do appreciate it much more now) Plus, the show was on a channel we often didn't get good reception on.
That said, the times we got good reception and the show came on? I wasn't leaving that TV until the show was over. The main reason: Transformation sequence. Had to see it. If it started up right now on TV, I'd stop typing until it was done.
I can't speak for everyone, but patterns like that can grab you as easily as storytelling. People can't walk away from CSI because they HAVE to see who that killer is. I had to see the He-Man transformation. Had to see Voltron formed. Wanted to see the Scooby gang pull that mask off. Power Rangers have mastered the art, stacking climactic moments throughout an episode.
I personally think that played a huge part in He-Man's TV success and probably helped establish a lot of kids' play pattern with the toys.
And while I, too, keep saying the Filmation didn't play the huge role in Germany it did here, I'd dare say that it still influenced fans to a certain degree, due to "Secret of the Sword" and the VHS tapes.
On a side note, I never got how a handful fans referring to wave 1 and 2 minicomics as "Minternia" pretend that both waves share the same canon. The most I'd dare say on that regard is that Wave 1 minicomics is Pre-Filmation canon 1.0, Wave 2 is Pre-Filmation canon 1.5 and DC was Proto-Filmation canon.
Last edited by Sir Reilly; January 7, 2013 at 06:45am.
"Why's Dragstor riding on Night Stalker?" "Cause he can."
The DC comics introduced Prince Adam, and the secret identity, but otherwise they at least maintained the looks of the characters, the 'feel' of Eternia, and the basic premise of the story, which was Skeletor's desire for the two halves of the power sword as well as Castle Grayskull. I like the DC comics quite a bit and they still feel very 'motu' to me. The cartoon...not so much.
Last edited by Whiplash7; January 7, 2013 at 05:29am.