Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 109 Discussion!

[RocketPunch]

I really, REALLY do not want a Madame Razz. To me she looks way too goofy. And she definately needs to much unique tooling.

I would be extremely upset, if I get Madame Razz and not a figure with less tooling = every other POP character.

The same is true for Gwildor, Kowl, Broom, the Twiggets, Lookee or any other character of their ilk.

Of course she's silly looking, she's the comic relief! She's basically the Princess of Power version of Orko. And just like Orko, she is an essential character who knows She-Ra's identity. I can understand that the more goofy looking characters may not be every fans cup of tea, but they they do play an important part in the story. Not every hero needs to be a mighty warrior to make a difference and find a place in our hearts.

[Slave2Evil_Lyn]

I LMAO though a good portion of this episode. I love it when you guys go off on tangents.

- I like the fan written bio for Photog so much more than what we got from Mattel. I also want a customizer to make a fedora with press pass for him to wear.

- I would be all over a Christmas exclusive of Santa Adam with Relay and smiling Skeletor head.

- Madame Razz and Broom are a MUST have. She falls at #2 on my most wanted after Scorpia. I also want her to in the style she was created in, Filmation.

Great episode Gooble crew keep it up.

[nope42]

Because nobody has done it yet.

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[Pixel Dan]

And while listening to the photog stuff i began sketching an image, but then Dan wanted Matt to do the cover, so i stopped, but here is what i did so far.
Hope you enjoy anyways.

YES! Fantastic image! You should finish it up!

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Because nobody has done it yet.

Ha!! Awesome pics!!

Seriously, 1940's Press Photog is my new favorite!!!

[JVS3]

Because nobody has done it yet.

LOL!!!!

[MegaGearMax]

I quite look forward to Madame Razz as she's a main player in the She-Ra PoP series. I honestly don't see how she's any more "cartoony" than Orko and most everyone accepts him just fine?

Some people who don't like Filmation don't like Orko either. Like MOTU really needed Orko running away from home because he thinks everyone forgot his birthday or he was scolded too hard by MAA.

[Barbecue17]

Great episode! My wife and I had a RGD Marathon Friday on our way back from visiting family in Ohio.

Lots of really funny stuff in this episode. To touch on a few of the issues covered:

*A Santa Adam would really be a fun figure to have. I like the idea of the smiling Skeletor face but really do not need another basic Skeletor!! Maybe this would be a good way to refresh Orko and get him out there again.

*Val makes a good point about Madame Razz and the difficulty with putting her in the line in order to please the most fans. There's no denying how important she is to the She-Ra cartoon, but her style is very different, similar to how a straight 100% new tooled 200x character design would look in the Classics line. I'm leaning between just letting her be in Classics with no change to her design (i.e. letting her look as Filmationy) and having her translated into Classics with a little bit of a different look. Someone did a really cool redesign of her in the art section one time that made her fit in more with the rest of the characters. I guess ultimately, I would like for characters to stick the closest to the interpretations fans know the best which means leaving Madame Razz as is. Maybe as a SDCC exclusive or something?

[MegaGearMax]

*Val makes a good point about Madame Razz and the difficulty with putting her in the line in order to please the most fans. There's no denying how important she is to the She-Ra cartoon, but her style is very different, similar to how a straight 100% new tooled 200x character design would look in the Classics line. I'm leaning between just letting her be in Classics with no change to her design (i.e. letting her look as Filmationy) and having her translated into Classics with a little bit of a different look. Someone did a really cool redesign of her in the art section one time that made her fit in more with the rest of the characters. I guess ultimately, I would like for characters to stick the closest to the interpretations fans know the best which means leaving Madame Razz as is. Maybe as a SDCC exclusive or something?

People have GOT to know to expect Madame Razz at some point. She was one of the major Filmation She-Ra characters. I'd expect Loo-Kee and Kowl at some point too. However, I'd wonder how hard would it be to sell off a Classics Madame Razz figure?

And as always, not every character will appeal to every fan.

[RocketPunch]

Val makes a good point about Madame Razz and the difficulty with putting her in the line in order to please the most fans. There's no denying how important she is to the She-Ra cartoon, but her style is very different, similar to how a straight 100% new tooled 200x character design would look in the Classics line. I'm leaning between just letting her be in Classics with no change to her design (i.e. letting her look as Filmationy) and having her translated into Classics with a little bit of a different look.

I still don't see how Madame Razz is any more cartoony or out of place than Orko, who is straight out of Filmation. I have faith in the Horsemen's abilities to make any character fit the style of the line and i'm they'll do an amazing job translating the 2D drawings into a 3D sculpt. I don't think she needs a redesign though.

[MegaGearMax]

I still don't see how Madame Razz is any more cartoony or out of place than Orko, who is straight out of Filmation. I have faith in the Horsemen's abilities to make any character fit the style of the line and i'm they'll do an amazing job translating the 2D drawings into a 3D sculpt. I don't think she needs a redesign though.

They are both cartoony characters, but Orko has both nostalgia AND the MOTU banner behind him, so I'd guess he's far more popular and the fans tend to overlook his cartoony tendencies.

[JVS3]

I still don't see how Madame Razz is any more cartoony or out of place than Orko, who is straight out of Filmation.

I personally don't agree. I think if we had seen Orko's face and it had been more fun kiddy cartoonish proportions, I think he'd have been a lot harder for people to want as a toy. His body also isn't as cartoonish in the exaggerated sense of Madame Razz.

Like I said on the show, I love MR but I just don't see her going over too well in the MOTUC line from a visual stance if she was straight-up Filmation. But like I also said on the show, I hope I'm 100% wrong and fans clamor for her!

I have faith in the Horsemen's abilities to make any character fit the style of the line and i'm they'll do an amazing job translating the 2D drawings into a 3D sculpt. I don't think she needs a redesign though.

It's not a redesign, so much as possibly tweaking. A redesign sounds drastic.

[RocketPunch]

I personally don't agree. I think if we had seen Orko's face and it had been more fun kiddy cartoonish proportions, I think he'd have been a lot harder for people to want as a toy. His body also isn't as cartoonish in the exaggerated sense of Madame Razz.

Like I said on the show, I love MR but I just don't see her going over too well in the MOTUC line from a visual stance if she was straight-up Filmation. But like I also said on the show, I hope I'm 100% wrong and fans clamor for her!

I dunno, I don't think her proportions are all that unusual when compared to someone like Gwildor. They'll both require unique tooling, so their chances of being made are about equal. The main thing Orko and Gwildor have over Razz is nostalgia from the male fans, and the fact that they both had figures in the vintage MOTU line probably helps too. I reckon there are enough PoP fans buying the Classic line to support a Madame Razz figure. We'll just have to wait and see!

[JVS3]

Well, I think we should consider that Gwildor isn't the popular character by a long shot, and there aren't a ton of people clamoring for him. I think he might more tolerance as a toy only because he wasn't done as a cartoon and had the benefit of live-action detail. Now, if he had been done only in Filmation, I think he would catch a lot more flack than he does. He'd then probably be annoying on the level of the NA Scientists.

[urbanmyth]

So now Gwildor AND Madame Razz aren't popular enough or interesting enough to merit figures? I'll be very sad if these two don't make it out as Classics figures.

[Sir Reilly]

I totally love how often Dragstor's been mentioned on RGD lately. Now I don't feel like the only one wanting him anymore! :D




A Gwildor body underneath his clothes might actually be re-useable for a ****** Count Marzo figure. Though demand for that is way low. However, I think Gwildor has garned a kind of cult following among fans during the last five years. If I think back to 2002, there seemed to be far more fans who flatout hated Gwildor and the thought of a new figure of him. Nowadays though, I hear many say that he'd make a hilarious fun figure if done right (like a bucket accessoire) and offered as an Exclusive.
As for Madame Razz, going the Exclusive route probably is the best way to release here, too. If she'd be a regular sub figure, I can see a certain portion of fans raising their pitchforks due to her "taking away *insert vintage MotU figure's name here* spot".

[13977]

Good episode guys, glad to get back to some bio's

I think Val make some very good points about Madame Razz, who I'm personally not fussed about getting, but if we did she should be at least Classized as much as any another Filmation character. An exclusive may be the best way to go with her.

I agree Gwildor, who I much prefer over Madame Razz or even Orko, benefits a lot from having a movie level detailed design. I also think he benefits from not being outright comic relief, he's not a goofy, clumsy magician, he has a legitimate skill as a locksmith and inventor (please don't take that the wrong way Razz fan's ). I personally would love to see Gwildor in the line sooner rather then later

I also think Rotar took a lot of flak in this episode. I seriously think that if done well, given detachable legs and a torso in scale with the rest of the line, that Rotar and Twistoid could be two AMAZING figures!

[blackiecats]

So now Gwildor AND Madame Razz aren't popular enough or interesting enough to merit figures? I'll be very sad if these two don't make it out as Classics figures.

Me too. They would probably be replaced with the Fighting Friendly Man (Wind Raider pilot) and Vykrus or some other crap that gets revealed that the louder voiced fans think are great Madame Razz is no more cartoony than Fangman and other one shot Filmation characters. Just because shes comic relief and childish she doesn't fit. I'll take a cartoony character over the concept crap we have been getting any day. The FFM are great aren't they? (despite many folks saying they were the reason they didn't sub in 2013!... )

[Penny Dreadful]

I love the 40s reporter Photog illustration and custom! LOL!

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I personally would love to see Gwildor in the line sooner rather then later

I also think Rotar took a lot of flak in this episode. I seriously think that if done well, given detachable legs and a torso in scale with the rest of the line, that Rotar and Twistoid could be two AMAZING figures!

Totally agree! Count me in for Gwildor, Rotar, Twistoid, and Madame Razz too!

[bcrduke]

Some people who don't like Filmation don't like Orko either. Like MOTU really needed Orko running away from home because he thinks everyone forgot his birthday or he was scolded too hard by MAA.

Isn't that an unfair criticsm though? It was a kids' cartoon show... the characters were put in situations that made them relatable to children. Today we have the opportunity to put these characters in more mature stories.

They are both cartoony characters, but Orko has both nostalgia AND the MOTU banner behind him, so I'd guess he's far more popular and the fans tend to overlook his cartoony tendencies.

Madame Razz has plenty of nostalgia behind her. Just because you and some others here don't believe that doesn't mean you are necessarily correct.

I'm sorry, but if Derpy the cross-eyed My Little Pony can sell out like gangbusters at SDCC, and garner a camp-loving following, so can Madame Razz with her already built-in fan following from the fans of MOTU/POP.

It's really getting to be ridiculous hearing from the same vocal minority that every single POP character needs to be weighed as worthy or not before being included in this line.

You know what? She's worthy... and she should be in the line. There are plenty of people who want her... and there will be converts once the 4H are done with her!

His body also isn't as cartoonish in the exaggerated sense of Madame Razz.

She's just a chubby, older lady. Sure, she's exaggerated compared to all the amazonian women she hangs out with lol. But then, so is Ram Man... he's a HUGE chubby guy in MYP and he's a chubby little person in Filmation... but look what the 4H did with him!!

Madame Razz kind of kicks Ram Man's butt when it comes to cartoon appearances, even if you combine Filmation and MYP to give Ram Man a bit of a handicap.

The thing is, Razz hasn't had the luxury of being included in media like the early mini-comics that Ram Man were in.

Wouldn't we be saying similar things about Ram Man (how silly and cartoony he is) had he not been in the more serious mini-comics and the MYP cartoon?

Had Razz been depicted in other ways, we might not need to have this debate. MOTUC is the great chance for a lot of these characters to be used in new ways.

So now Gwildor AND Madame Razz aren't popular enough or interesting enough to merit figures? I'll be very sad if these two don't make it out as Classics figures.

I would be too.

Gwildor is an important character too. Not as important as Razz, but he's certainly key (no pun intended) to the MOTUC canon... his invention is used all the time.


I think they should just sculpt a generic little buck, and use overlaying armor/clothes (like with Fang Man and King Hssss) to create Gwildor, Razz, and maybe even Old Man Marzo. They'd need unique feet, but the bust for Razz could easily be created by a sculpted shirt that doesn't come off (she never showed any cleavage). Gwildor is in robes and a cloak... not a lot of tight-fitting clothing detail needed.

Sure, Razz had a very, well, feminine rear end and set of hips... so reduce that a tiny bit, and hide it under Gwildor's cloak when it's used for him.

[Sword2Blanket]

I read all this Razz bashing earlier today and was going to jump on and defend her when I had a chance. It looks like bcrduke pretty much addressed everything though (I applaud you sir ). I still can't believe the argument was made that Orko is clearly less cartoony than Madame Razz.

Anyway, I do want to point out one thing he said and expound on it.

It's really getting to be ridiculous hearing from the same vocal minority that every single POP character needs to be weighed as worthy or not before being included in this line.

It's ironic to me that recently, if not in this very episode (I can't remember), there was a big discussion and everyone adamantly agreed about how terrible it was that people were always poopooing characters and saying they shouldn't be included. Then this episode ends with a lengthy discussion about how Madame Razz doesn't really fit in with the line, and including her in the sub was questionable, and other such miscellaneous questions to her ligitimacy as a MOTUC character. I realize it wasn't the intent to bash Madame Razz necessarily, but that's kinda how it came off. Now the discussion is suddenly Madame Razz is only viable if she's an exclusive. I can understand the SDCC argument if it was solely an issue of getting the tooling necessary for her. However, to act as if it's totally unreasonable to expect fans to have to pay for her in a sub? That's lame. If I have to pay $75 for characters that are generic nobodies that you could see 10% of on boxes that 5% of us actually had as a kid, then you have to pay whatever it cost for Madame Razz. I don't care if she's more cartoony than Huckleberry Hound, she's the friggin' Man-at-Arms equivalent for PoP and infinitely more legitimate than all these characters that have been in the subs that have been pulled out of thin air.

[Jukka]

LOL
I love it that *obviously* due to Eamon's missing appearance, the rest of the hosts break into multitude of character-voices to make up for the lost volume Eamon makes.

[JVS3]

I read all this Razz bashing earlier today...

"Razz bashing"? So, I guess the next time you post a constructive criticism about a character, we should say you're bashing it as well?

I'm all for every character eventually making it into MOTUC, even if some aren't my personal favorites. But I'm also not going to pretend like everyone shares my sentiments, nor am I going to be upset if they don't agree with me about personal preference.

Everyone has their favorites and least favorites, and I feel you should accept that there are fans who won't want Madame Razz.

I still can't believe the argument was made that Orko is clearly less cartoony than Madame Razz.

To me, Orko doesn't look as cartoony as Madame Razz. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

She's just a chubby, older lady. Sure, she's exaggerated compared to all the amazonian women she hangs out with lol. But then, so is Ram Man... he's a HUGE chubby guy in MYP and he's a chubby little person in Filmation... but look what the 4H did with him!!

It sounds like you and I have similar feelings about this. MOTUC Ram Man wasn't a Filmation Ram Man, he was the toy Ram Man, and you liked what they did with him. So are you okay with them tweaking Madame Razz visually?

Like I said on the show, I hope I'm wrong and that her visuals aren't a concern for most fans and she can be done as-is. But, my gut feeling is that many people won't be okay with her being a direct translation from the cartoon.

If you all are interested, I could always do a main page poll to see if fans want Madame Razz or not and if they want her, how'd they'd like her translated into MOTUC toy form.

I totally love how often Dragstor's been mentioned on RGD lately. Now I don't feel like the only one wanting him anymore!

He was always one of my top MOTU figures as a child, so I am personally rooting for him to appear sooner than later!

[13977]

I said in my last post I though Gwildor benefits from having a more realistic design and not being outright comic relief, I also think Kowl benefits from both these. I wonder who POP fans would prefer over Kowl and Razz? Personally I really want Kowl so I'd take him over Razz but not Gwildor.

Oh Penny you should definitely check out The Godfather, both the film and novel

[RocketPunch]

To me, Orko doesn't look as cartoony as Madame Razz.

If they put Madame Razz into a live-action movie she could easily be played by an actress, but Orko would have to be CGI. That's why I feel Orko is the more cartoony of the two.

[Sword2Blanket]

"Razz bashing"? So, I guess the next time you post a constructive criticism about a character, we should say you're bashing it as well?

I'm all for every character eventually making it into MOTUC, even if some aren't my personal favorites. But I'm also not going to pretend like everyone shares my sentiments, nor am I going to be upset if they don't agree with me about personal preference.

Everyone has their favorites and least favorites, and I feel you should accept that there are fans who won't want Madame Razz.

In fairness, I probably used the term "bashing" somewhat liberally. However, there seemed to be a clear sentiment among several in this thread that her legitimacy in this line was dubious because she didn't meet some criteria that they deemed important. Isn't that the very same mindset that you guys were condemning in this episode? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm not sure what was supposed to be the constructive criticism part. It seemed that Danielle made the only reasonable comment in that Madame Razz could be given more detail, but the essence of the character shouldn't be lost. She should always be a somewhat zany, somewhat frumpish old lady regardless of how absurd some may find that.

And I certainly wasn't trying to say that everyone would or should like Madame Razz. That wasn't the point at all. My point was simply that she shouldn't be relegated to some sort of lesser character status who doesn't deserve to have a sub spot just because some people don't like her or think she looks funny. This notion harkens back to the quote I posted earlier from bcrduke about PoP characters frequently having to justify their existence for no good reason. I'm not exactly a huge NA fan (despite the fact that I had a lot of the figures growing up) but I never begrudge NA fans the inclusion of their figures in the sub. NA fans are probably even fewer than the PoP fans, but I think they deserve their characters just like we all do and I appreciate the fact that they are getting them. I also don't try to say NA characters should look a certain way, despite whatever opinions the true fans of that character may have, because it makes them more palatable to me (not saying that you were doing this, Val, but there are some that do). I totally defer to them on what Karatti, for instance, should look like and hope that they as NA fans get the character the way they've always wanted him. I realize that's just my opinion and others may disagree on that perspective, but that's just where I'm coming from.