Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 109 Discussion!

[Matthew K]

I really want a madame Razz figure. She's not a top ten, but she's a necessary character. The only thing that worries me about her is that she is so specific and so tooling intensive it might be too late in the line to get the resources to make her. I'm sure there are enough PoP and Filmation fans to buy into her. I would also think that most fans who may not really want a Razz figure would still recognize her importance and her 'right' to be made. I can see why some might see her as more cartoony than orko since she is a highly exaggerated rendering of a (mostly) human female and looks far less realistic than the other females on her show. She stands out in comparison to those other females. Orko is mostly unique on his show and a unique creature.

[Sword2Blanket]

What I took from Val in the podcast was that she may need to be tweaked to cater to fans who are not so keen to receive them. Now I'm admittedly quite biased on their potential stylings, but this doesn't make much sense to me. For those who don't care for the characters I doubt anything other than a massive redesign would make them receptive. I can't foresee any amount of small "tweaking" working to change their minds. What I can see it doing is angering and massively disappointing those who have been excitedly waiting for them ... some of us for decades. It's quite likely this is the one and only chance for Madame Razz and Broom to be immortalized in plastic. I think it would be a shame to tweak them in such a way that would negate such enthusiasm, while failing to enthuse those who are most likely indifferent regardless of what's done to her. Details like wrinkles in clothes and skin folds (ala Fang Man) are one thing. Changing the body shape and overall appearance of characters who have only ever been presented in that one way just doesn't seem smart in my opinion.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say from the beginning. You were just much more concise and elegant than me.

First of, I didn't say I dislike the character an sich, I'm fine with a more mature, witchy sorceress who is scatterbrained and forgets her spells. I am however severely put off by the way this particular character was portrayed in Filmation, both visually and auditorily. The redesign by Buffalo Bill-man is not just more tolerable to me, it makes me want to see this character (or a similar redesign) in the line, future comics, a movie, etc.

I appreciate that Filmation character designs may not be for everyone, but making Filmation characters not based on Filmation is bonkers to me.

Why should the Filmation be the definitive look for every POP figure from here on end? What about the people that wanted the Star Sisters to be more closer to the toy prototypes? They will never get the figures they have been wanting for so long. I'm sure there are people who wanted a different version for Catra or Frosta. I myself would like a more toy-inspired Angella instead of the lame Filmation design.

That's a perfectly valid argument and one that I completely agree with. I would have prefered a more toy based Netossa, for example. However, that argument doesn't really apply to Madame Razz because she's only had one look in all the official media she's been released in.

And why is it OK for all the males have an exaggerated, idealized physique (even Eldor sports bulging pecs and massive abs), but when it's one of the gals it's suddenly offensive and sexist if someone wants her to be more visually pleasing.

This is a straw man argument. No one wants Sprocker to have a He-Man buck either.

[Crusader]

That's a perfectly valid argument and one that I completely agree with. I would have prefered a more toy based Netossa, for example.

Glad we agree on something

However, that argument doesn't really apply to Madame Razz because she's only had one look in all the official media she's been released in.

I don't think the fact that she only had one look should automatically dictate her appearance in MOTUC. There has only been one version of Skeletor's dragon for instance, yet the Horsemen completely changed his snout. I didn't like it one bit, but it's their creative license to do so ... and I reckon they could do miracles to improve Madame Razz's ugly mug.

This is a straw man argument. No one wants Sprocker to have a He-Man buck either.

No one wants Sprocker, period. At least, not like he does in Filmation.



Twiggets like these, on the other hand, I would definitely buy.

[Sword2Blanket]

Glad we agree on something

Indeed.

I don't think the fact that she only had one look should automatically dictate her appearance in MOTUC. There has only been one version of Skeletor's dragon for instance, yet the Horsemen completely changed his snout. I didn't like it one bit, but it's their creative license to do so ... and I reckon they could do miracles to improve Madame Razz's ugly mug.

I'm not saying the 4H couldn't do it, I'm just saying I don't think it's a good idea. In fact, I think the example you gave is a good reason why it's not the best idea.

No one wants Sprocker, period. At least, not like he does in Filmation.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ggetsHiRes.jpg

Twiggets like these, on the other hand, I would definitely buy.

I want a Filmation Sprocker. But that's beside the point...

Even if you go with BBM's Twiggets, the point is people would still want him to have a more plump physique than the standard male buck that you referenced earlier. People want Madame Razz to have her usual physique for the same reason: it's the design that they grew up with and have loved for 25+ years. It has nothing to do with people finding the notion of a reinterpretation sexist or offensive, as you suggested.

[iron_pride]

Playing catch up, so far so good......a lot to go.

[Crusader]

Even if you go with BBM's Twiggets, the point is people would still want him to have a more plump physique than the standard male buck that you referenced earlier. People want Madame Razz to have her usual physique for the same reason: it's the design that they grew up with and have loved for 25+ years.

I'm fine with that as long he's not the comical lump he's in the cartoon. I also don't mind different bodytypes for this line - like in 200X - that's not the issue. My point about the male buck is that it is totally acceptable for the guys to be half-naked and ripped, while Teela in a bikini, visible nipples on Frosta or even the mere idea of an embellished Madame Razz is met with severe criticism. Besides, I can't repeat enough that I don't want to have a thin, slim Madame Razz that uses the standard female buck. She can have a small and chubby physique, like you remember, just with some aesthetical tweaks that can be enjoyed by more fans than the Filmation crowd. Cut back on some of the overly comical elements like the giant yellow eyes and the ridiculously oversized chin, make her a bit more curvy in the right places, add some overall detailing to her outfit and she will turn out great for everyone.

Two other examples of what I mean:

It has nothing to do with people finding the notion of a reinterpretation sexist or offensive, as you suggested.

Maybe not in this particular thread, but it has come up in previous discussions.

[Swifty]

There are plenty of people who want a Filmation Sprocker.

[RocketPunch]

I'm fine with that as long he's not the comical lump he's in the cartoon. She can have a small and chubby physique, like you remember, just with some aesthetical tweaks that can be enjoyed by more fans than the Filmation crowd. Cut back on some of the overly comical elements like the giant yellow eyes and the ridiculously oversized chin, make her a bit more curvy in the right places, add some overall detailing to her outfit and she will turn out great for everyone.

My only concern is that by toning down her comedic elements you risk taking away a key part of her appeal. She has to look funny, as she's a comedic character. If you embelish the design too much, you may lose something that her fans like about her. I feel it's more important to deliver a figure than makes her core fans happy, rather than trying to please everyone (which is impossible).

[Penny Dreadful]

P.S. Penny I love the Rotar gif. I'm definitely onboard the Rotar train!

Groovy!

[jzachery]

Madame Razz as a character is great. Madame Razz by the 4 Horsemen WOULD BE AWESOME! While the Filmation design is always her root, I don't think it's detailed enough for the line, but if the 4H have free reign, they can do her some major justice.

[Swifty]

Ha! I see you had to come down to CT for the best Rotar propaganda!

[Crusader]

My only concern is that by toning down her comedic elements you risk taking away a key part of her appeal. She has to look funny, as she's a comedic character. If you embelish the design too much, you may lose something that her fans like about her. I feel it's more important to deliver a figure than makes her core fans happy, rather than trying to please everyone (which is impossible).

Well, it's an exercise in balance and I hope the Horsemen will find a way to please as much people as possible (which isn't necessarily the group of core fans).

[Sword2Blanket]

Well, it's an exercise in balance and I hope the Horsemen will find a way to please as much people as possible (which isn't necessarily the group of core fans).

Do you think it would work for you if she had a traditional Madame Razz physique and came with a Filmation head and another head more in line with your preferences? I'm guessing that would probably be the best compromise.

[Crusader]

Do you think it would work for you if she had a traditional Madame Razz physique and came with a Filmation head and another head more in line with your preferences? I'm guessing that would probably be the best compromise.

If you accept something like Gbagok's version to be the tradional physique (meaning short and chubby, yet with sufficient curves), then yes I would be completely on board with 2 heads as the best possible compromise

[Sword2Blanket]

If you accept something like Gbagok's version to be the tradional physique (meaning short and chubby, yet with sufficient curves), then yes I would be completely on board with 2 heads as the best possible compromise

Hmmmm... So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

I like all the reinterpretations that you've posted, but I'll always see them as just that: reinterpretations. I would probably like a whole line of gbagok's designs, but that's not what this line is about for me (and I think a lot of other people).

But to each their own.

[Slave2Evil_Lyn]

Madame Razz is a Filmation character and needs to look like she did in the cartoon. Just like Granamyr is a Filmation character and he looks like he did in the cartoon with a little more detail, the same should be done with Madame Razz. That is who the character is, making her taller, skinnier, sexier, or anything else changes who she is as a character. I also would be happy to have the Twiggets as seen in Filmation. I think since they have the rights now Mattel should be focusing on Filmation characters and designs. I love that the POP characters have all been based on Filmtion. The MOTU/POP franchise would have never been what it was without Filmation, it was what made the line huge. Toys of the 80's did not last without a cartoon. FILMtion is He-Man and She-ra.

[Irian]

Granamyr is way too cartoony for my taste

[Crusader]

Hmmmm... So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

I like all the reinterpretations that you've posted, but I'll always see them as just that: reinterpretations. I would probably like a whole line of gbagok's designs, but that's not what this line is about for me (and I think a lot of other people).

But to each their own.

Hey, at least we tried I guess the water is just too deep. For what it's worth, you do have my full support on a 100% Filmation Kowl and Sweet Bee.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Madame Razz will look like in the new DC comics. It might give the non-Filmation fans a bit more cleavage ... I mean leverage

[scott metzger]

There's no reason to majorly change Razz' design; the Horsemen simply need to flesh her out into three dimensions and add a few details. as they did with Fang Man. And it doesn't matter that she was one of the more cartoony characters in the show because of the quality of the Filmation character designs. Even the cartoonish characters still had a solid structure underlying them; basically, they were designs you could turn around without having major transformations occur depending on the angle. Some cartoon characters can't do that. Think Phineas and Ferb, where you can see both of their eyes even when their head is sideways. That translates poorly into three dimensions. Razz has enough of an internal, consistent structure to all of her parts that she can make the jump from two to three dimensions without losing her familiar look.

[sirsniffy]

I think all the Filmation figures should look like their Cartoon counterparts first and foremost. No cheap looking 200X redesigns, no overdone paint apps and jagged edges to make her look 'sexy' or 'menacing'. Filmation is cartoonish by design, and the figures should reflect that. I'm glad Fang Man was kept intact and not turned into a Spawn or DragonBall character like 200X fans seem to want for every figure.

[Sword2Blanket]

For what it's worth, you do have my full support on a 100% Filmation Kowl and Sweet Bee.

Ironically, I'm not a big fan of Filmation Sweet Bee.

the new DC comics... might give the non-Filmation fans a bit more cleavage ... I mean leverage

You're probably right on both accounts.

[Crusader]

Ironically, I'm not a big fan of Filmation Sweet Bee.

Oh deary my ...

[King Miro]

I'd like to see a little less giggling throughout. Yes, it's important to have fun, but too much takes away some of the professionalism of it.

[MegaGearMax]

I think all the Filmation figures should look like their Cartoon counterparts first and foremost. No cheap looking 200X redesigns, no overdone paint apps and jagged edges to make her look 'sexy' or 'menacing'. Filmation is cartoonish by design, and the figures should reflect that. I'm glad Fang Man was kept intact and not turned into a Spawn or DragonBall character like 200X fans seem to want for every figure.

You can't please everyone. For every fan that wants a cartoony character, there are fans who want a character to look more serious. Jitsu's head was too serious for some fans, while Clawful's head was too cartoony for others.

I think fans might be more turned on to more serious designs than more pedestrian or sillier ones as some MYP designs are more popular than their Filmation counterparts, as evidenced by King Miro, Evilseed and Count Marzo.

If more Filmation characters had appeared in MYP, the fans might enjoy those versions better as they might be more toyetic in nature. Fortunately for Filmation fans, MYP never reached most of their characters so there is only one version out there.