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Thread: MOTU DC Ongoing Comic General/Subscription/Upcoming Issues Discussion

  1. #1326
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
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    It's a bit to stylized for my taste but it isn't bad like the scribble we have had for the last few issues.

  2. #1327
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    I just finished reading it. The artwork is nice, but the story starts and ends in the same spot with the same characters. You learn a few things that will possibly help expand the story, but this one is filler.

  3. #1328
    Court Magician Zap Rowsdower's Avatar
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    Thank God that they have this new art!
    I for one am very happy to see this. Personally, I couldn't even get through the issue that was all scribbles.
    That was the worst comic that I own to date; not that I have a gigantic collection, but I "likes what I likes".

  4. #1329
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    I like the new art. I was kind of upset about issues 7 and 8's art. I thought it too scribbly. But Issue 9 here has almost nothing going on in the story. Also, why couldn't we see more of the monsters they were fighting? And isn't that big monster that gets Teela and Moss Man the same "Leech" that Zodac saw in the Origin of Hordak?

  5. #1330
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    Anyone else read between the lines and here the narrator tell Teela to STOP TALKING! or was that just me?



    Quote Originally Posted by Hy-Man View Post
    Give me amateurish enthusiasm over polished blandness any day.
    fair point, however I felt the previous issues lacked any enthusiasm and the current one lacks polish.
    I'll seed the point that the previous coloring and "camera angles" had a certain desperation about them, but that was more metta IMO...
    The current one might be bland...But after so much poop eating, bland is a welcomed taste...

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I dig 'em! I've known Mike since his design days at Hasbro and at Mattel. He does everything you see on those pages: pencils, inks and colors.

    I realize that a lot of folks don't like art team changes. I've worked in comics so long that it doesn't bother me. But I completely understand the fans who dislike it. Speaking from the creative side, even if fans don't like art team changes, I hope they can still appreciate how difficult it is to put out a monthly comic with the same creative team. It's hard to do because of the level of detail and quality people have come to expect and fill-ins are common are are revolving teams on arcs. There aren't many creators these days that can do long, monthly runs on comics.
    True. This is why I HAD to jump ship from DCU (never got into marvel) and into more "indy" titles. It also makes Robert Kirkman's books Walking Dead and Invincible all the MORE impressive. He is getting in to Cerberus numbers isn't he?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    I would need to see a few more pages but so far I agree that this is much better.

    It's a bit too stylised and 'debut' artist for my personal taste but it's a definte style that works and has a chunky vibe that I like for MOTU.

    Lets hope this penciller and this colourist actually stay on board refine their style (as what tends to happen when allowed to stay on a title for a long run) for folks to notice and perhaps reconsider picking this so far lack luster comic up.

    Lets also hope they improve the writing next and give us a comic we can be actually proud to buy and not just hiding under our Conan or Thor out of embarrassment.
    100% agree. But what do you mean by "chunky vibe that I like for MOTU" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Imaging how good these pages would look if we had the characters looking proper?!

    All classics style would look great in this style I think.
    Agreed...They are consistently drawn on model and in a single style.

    Yet at the same time...this is the first time I haven't hated these costumes...

    Quote Originally Posted by toofastone View Post
    I just finished reading it. The artwork is nice, but the story starts and ends in the same spot with the same characters. You learn a few things that will possibly help expand the story, but this one is filler.
    Little happens, but that's just modern DC/Marvel for you. I miss the bygone era of the 'done in one' ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    Hmm. I think with that much snake motif and a toy accurate Snakemen snake staff then King Hiss can't be far behind. It may very well be Hiss' own snake staff, but it could just as well be the Goddess' own as well. The cover certainly gives the impression that she will be more of antagonist to the heroes than she is in the MOTUC bios.
    excellent points however I will interject that covers are not always literal, and often used to misdirect us...and more often then not just an excuse to show everything but the nipple



    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Somethings don't have merchandise or it's pretty costly. There is also the problem of who is more of a fan (not more of a geek or nerd) the one who owns all the Star Wars books or the one who owns all the Action figures or the one who owns props from the sets or the one or.... But we may classify those at the same level, but then we have the problem of those who dabble in everything.
    Tell me about it. MY kingdom for Big Trouble in Little China and Fifth Element...ANYTHING!

    Fan, geek, nerd, Dork, toys, comic, books, props or whatever all comes down to two things...

    How much money spent on it
    How much Time used thinking about it

    Think of the old saying in regards to your hands, expectations and poo...That should give you some measure of just how much you are into something. Using a numerical value on each between 1-10 that is how much you care or do not care. Myself?

    - Reality television/ famous people/ TMZ
    0 care Bears (or lake there of)
    1 Transformers
    2 Star Trek
    3 Doctor Who
    4 Marvel (this is the level at which money/being a fan begins IMO)
    5 TMNT
    6 Street Fighter
    7 Star Wars
    8 DC (pre 52...)
    9 comic books, TV shows and films.
    10 women.
    ∞ MOTU (if you can't be honest on the internet who can you be honest with?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    You have to look at alot of the MEN too. Scorpion King, Conan, Beastmaster, Dolph's He-Man...

    In MOTU, we have men with nearly bare chests, unarmored legs and arms. Heck, we have the most skimpy and barbaric looking characters wearing LESS in the snow (Ice Armor He-Man, Battleground Teela, Vikor).



    It's pretty easy. Hot woman with great curves and all.
    It isn't the same because men don't have a history of being objectified and women do. That is the difference.


    She is a moron who is famous and idolized for being rich. All I see is ugly. (honestly I couldn't identify her in a line up I had to Google her to see what she looks like)...Sure, she has attractive features...But women are more then just that...
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  6. #1331
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    It isn't the same because men don't have a history of being objectified and women do. That is the difference.
    Men get objectified too, the male-dominated society makes a man with a bare chest a power fantasy, as well as a sexual one. A man with a bare midsection can be stabbed and impaled just as easily as a woman with a bare midsection can. The article on that website you were referencing only saw the problem of scantily dressed fantasy women. Men have the same problem too.

    Our characters in MOTU don't really have objectification issues as the men are just as undressed as the women, if not more so. Especially exemplified by the main character who is wearing less than anyone except Rattlor and Tung Lashor.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
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  7. #1332
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    I use to think the same way you do. Do you want to know what changed my mind?


    http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/1362...se-equivalence
    (Ah shortpacked...I am sooo behind on reading you)

    Yeah, it's a bit insulting, but once I stopped being angry I realized I might be wrong. So I asked a bunch of chicks and the general consensus was that it is a false equivalence...

    Additionally I don't think you watched the whole video that I linked to...
    http://www.collegehumor.com/video/65...le-armor-sucks

    LOL "right in the shiny parts" goes to one of the points we are both making. that bikini "armor" is ineffectual...

    Keep in mind the topic we are talking about DC's comics new costumes, How He-man gets more cloths/armor while ALL the women get less...We don't know what Rattlor and Tung Lashor will look like in this canon...Regardless unless you are into kinky stuff snake themed monster men are about as far removed from sexual objects as you can get...


    PLEASE NOTE to everybody who is reading this...That is NOT an invitation to PM me the links to your slash fan-fiction...NOBODY wants to see that...

    Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; January 5, 2014 at 11:15am.
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  8. #1333
    Heroic Warrior ksharpe's Avatar
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    Theres no false equivalence.


    There aren't lotsa men looking like that outside of body builders. I also dont expect women to look like Lady Death in a wet t-shirt. You cannot ask one set of standards for one gender and not the other.

    From the dawn of time in art, man has IDEALIZED the human form and amplified more attractive traits ( for their respective times) . Whether in reverence of the body or just plain sexualization.


    It just depends on on the artist --- there are going to be extremes and moderates. Some are in search of a naturalistic style and some more extreme.

    I do agree some costume designs could make better sense, but no one complains that He-man is almost nude. Actually most are complaining, in reference to his new 52 armor, thats hes NOT almost nude.
    Last edited by ksharpe; January 5, 2014 at 11:29am.

  9. #1334
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    First of all, "chicks"? No. Second, women aren't some weak, fragile creatures that need to be defended by someone like you in a thread about a comic series. Third, it doesn't matter who is doing the objectification, men are every bit as objectified across the MOTU property as women are. Additionally, the female characters in the MOTU-verse are generally portrayed to be perfectly equal in every way to the male characters. There is more insulting sexism dripping from your posts in this thread than anything I can think of in MOTU.

    I know you mean well, but either your perspective is a little off or the way you're expressing yourself is.

  10. #1335
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/84...-costume-looks
    http://www.geekgirlsrule.net/?p=1811

    Quote Originally Posted by ksharpe View Post
    You cannot ask one set of standards for one gender and not the other.
    The issue is that men and women should be proportional equal in value as well as clothing options and not be treated as JUST sexual objects.

    I like big...Brains and I cannot lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Phe View Post
    First of all, "chicks"? No. Second, women aren't some weak, fragile creatures that need to be defended by someone like you in a thread about a comic series.
    fair point. Hey ladies want to address this?



    Ladies?



    Girls?


    anyone.


    Please chime in.




    look at that we must have frightened them away? Back in the 80's they made up 40% of the viewing audience because Filmation treated men and women equally. DC does not. Why do you think grils respond to the Hunger Games...


    you don't like what I'm saying...that doesn't mean I'm wrong. it just means you don't like what I'm saying.
    Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; January 5, 2014 at 12:16pm.
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  11. #1336
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    I use to think the same way you do. Do you want to know what changed my mind?

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv...inreo1_500.png
    http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/1362...se-equivalence
    (Ah shortpacked...I am sooo behind on reading you)

    Yeah, it's a bit insulting, but once I stopped being angry I realized I might be wrong. So I asked a bunch of chicks and the general consensus was that it is a false equivalence...
    If people are uncomfortable with a character, then they shouldn't collect the book -- just don't change the main character to attract some fan who barely cares anyway. That was my point about people not liking He-Man because he didn't wear pants or that he was a barbarian.

    I'm far more open to the idea of scantily clad characters both male and female (I fought for Battleground Teela after all and I want Oo-Larr). However, for all my love of skin, I don't think that EVERYONE should have a lack of clothing though. Just as there are characters of both sexes who are covered from head-to-toe, there are characters who wear bathing suits for their most iconic costumes. There should be a balance, not a majority of one over the other. You like half-naked women, fine--go read Red Sonja. You want a woman who's completely covered, go read Batgirl.

    Additionally I don't think you watched the whole video that I linked to...I'll embed it this time.

    CollegeHumor's Favorite Funny Videos



    LOL "right in the shiny parts" goes to one of the points we are both making. that bikini "armor" is ineffectual...
    A lack of armor would be a problem for any warrior. But that's never been much of an issue in MOTU, Conan, Red Sonja, Edgar Rice Bourroughs or other pulp style heroes. Those heroes are fighting monsters and defeating hordes half-naked.

    Keep in mind the topic we are talking about DC's comics new costumes, How He-man gets more cloths/armor while ALL the women get less...We don't know what Rattlor and Tung Lashor will look like in this canon...Regardless unless you are into kinky stuff snake themed monster men are about as far removed from sexual objects as you can get...
    Teela's old costume only became a real issue once He-Man traded up his yellow cross barbarian look for armor. Ed Benes also drew the same old Teela costume that we've been seeing for a year before. People were more concerned with her hair than her costume.

    Men and women are different sexes. I have no problem with sexy poses so long as it's in character (Emma Frost, Dejah Thoris) or in a certain context (Catwoman being playful or flirtatious).

    But for the record, that pose is terrible for WW.

    look at that we must have frightened them away? Back in the 80's they made up 40% of the viewing audience because Filmation treated men and women equally. DC does not. Why do you think grils respond to the Hunger Games...
    Dude, girls responded to TWILIGHT.

    Filmation made their female characters strong, when so many other lines didn't have any female characters at all. They even introduced more females to the mythos that we are now getting as Classics.

    At least DC females have more staying power on the comic racks. Wonder Woman, Birds of Prey, Supergirl, World's Finest, Batgirl. Poor Marvel is still looking for their Wonder Woman equivalent. DC has a host of awesome female characters, in spite of the current editorial control. That's the key here -- current editors.

    Even Rob Liefeld can't stand DC right now...George Perez and a bunch of others.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; January 5, 2014 at 02:21pm.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
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  12. #1337
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    I always liked Red Sonja's logic:

  13. #1338
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Back to the topic of the MOTU Comic, this is a Teela character study by Michael O'Hare, the current artist...



    Randor is here too!
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; January 5, 2014 at 03:31pm.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

  14. #1339
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    There's an assumption in that comic though also explained away with Team Jacob or Team Edward.

    Likewise not all guys are into the same thing either, not all guys are into breasts and the skimpy outfits. But I am still trying to figure out if those outfits are because of men or women still. It's interesting how skimpier outfits become more prominent during the women's movement and before then when they were repressed they were expected to wear more clothing. The outfits were sold with the idea that women could take back their sexuality making them empowered which the same is true for comics. Of course all of that is too some extent (the whole Wonder Woman bondage thing), and there is a point when many see it's gone a bit too far.

    Now how they are drawn is another issue all together and I do think with the more pin up style drawing the issue becomes more prominent. But I think people over look Nightwing, Spider-man and others giving us plenty of butt and crotch shots, and you would probably see a lot of that with Batman and others if it wasn't for the cape. I would even argue that at least part of the reason they got rid of cod pieces was because in part they drew attention to the crotch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I can understand having say Teela more in armor now for the sake of she's a normal human and they are at war now, so she's going to need to more protection. Little disputes and stopping the villain from stealing an artifact doesn't really mean you need to fully suit up in armor.

    He-man the power harness is supposed to make him stronger to open attack or somesuch, but to make the Horde seem more ominous they power up his armor. That said to me it doesn't feel like armor and the brown seems a bit drab.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

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  15. #1340
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...ic-d6pvppa.jpg

    Back to the topic of the MOTU Comic, this is a Teela character study by Michael O'Hare, the current artist...

    http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...ic-d6p943t.jpg

    Randor is here too!
    That looks sooooo good!

  16. #1341
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...ic-d6pvppa.jpg

    Back to the topic of the MOTU Comic, this is a Teela character study by Michael O'Hare, the current artist...

    http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...ic-d6p943t.jpg

    Randor is here too!
    I love the new style. Teela, especially, looks superb.

  17. #1342
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    I think you are debating on an inexistent problem (at least in those terms). There is no way to really objectify a man to the eye of an audience. Or, better, the point is not "objectify" but "feeling objectified", because if nobody feels objectified there is not objectification. This is because male sexuality works completely different from female sexuality. A man can be treated and feel treated like an object inside a relationship, that is inside a very personal frame, but put the situation in front of the eye of a male audience and you can bet that at the best they would not mind at all or, at avarage, they would feel more aroused than offended.
    Talking about comics (animation), comics like MOTU are addressed to a male audience, that's clear. Stories centered on a female point-of-view are completely different. Teela, dressed or undressed, warrior or dame, powerful or weak, is drawn for the pleasure of men fantasy. Drawing men and women equal/proportional in clothing options would not make any difference since MOTU represents a male-point-of-view world.
    But in MOTU women are not restrained to be only mothers and wives, they can be warriors, heroines, and so they are given EQUAL TREATMENT as men.
    This is fair and the only thing that makes sense that can be done.
    Beside this, it's normal and not denigrating that a boy identifies himself in a strong and muscolar warrior and a girl in a sensual and provocative heroine. This the way men and women are done (=would like to be), if you can get what I mean. I have no statistic, but I doubt that any girl (with a little wisdom) would feel objectified by these MOTUC comics. These comics are just (fair) male fantasies, reality can be different: when a woman uses her "femininity" to get to what she can't or she should get in other ways, there we have objectification. Teela, even in revealing clothing, works hard to establish herself, she does not twerk to get a job.

  18. #1343
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    That argument is really the truth of the situation but it typically isn't taken there with one minor issue. I would say typically, not all women find the characters objectified in these mediums. They are given personalities etc, and Kitty Pryde one of the more common desired is underdeveloped as far as comic book characters are done, not underdressed and breaks the mold on most of that.

    Still I could see some guys feel it objectifying them, and some woman not they might be far from the majority. The reality though is simply this, most of those characters total aren't wearing much more than cloth in the first place. When actual armor comes into the argument there is a case, but then even using say Red Sonya as the example, most of the people she's fighting are in cloth shirts and pants she's actually better protected than they are (not by much).

    Even further problem is the way men and women dress in reality anyways which partially goes back to the point I was making. yes not all women under dress but quite a few do.

    I would actually be curious though how many five year old boys were crushing on Teela or even knew anything about that at the time.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  19. #1344
    Heroic Warrior ksharpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp...6tmo1_1280.jpg
    http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/84...-costume-looks
    http://www.geekgirlsrule.net/?p=1811


    The issue is that men and women should be proportional equal in value as well as clothing options and not be treated as JUST sexual objects.

    I like big...Brains and I cannot lie.



    fair point. Hey ladies want to address this?



    Ladies?



    Girls?


    anyone.


    Please chime in.




    look at that we must have frightened them away? Back in the 80's they made up 40% of the viewing audience because Filmation treated men and women equally. DC does not. Why do you think grils respond to the Hunger Games...


    you don't like what I'm saying...that doesn't mean I'm wrong. it just means you don't like what I'm saying.

    Sorry those are really distorted examples.


    1 ) because Super hero males are already bodybuilder type characters that are IDEALIZED.

    2) Most traditional super heroes are already drawn like NUDE MALES that appear to have skin tight/painted on costumes.

    3) For every one or two you point out like RED SONJA, I can name a Thundra, or Sif or Mohawked Storm.


    and again.. He-man , Skeletor, Vykor, Conan, Blacktstar are almost nude as well.

    If we wanna argue teelas look is just bad.. I'm on board. But Masters is a FANTASY concept by way of sci-fi.... im not exactly sure what people were expecting. I just cant agree that theres some sinister or overly disrespectful intent.

    Man/artists idealize the form male and female to be heroic to extreme degrees to what is pleasing to them. its happened all though out art.
    Last edited by ksharpe; January 6, 2014 at 02:02am.

  20. #1345
    Eternian Music Master mikethedrummer's Avatar
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    Ok gang, let's get back on track here and stick to the topic of discussing the comic. Let's refrain from derailing the thread of potential sexism, equal rights, etc. If you want to continue that discussion, head to the tar swamp. Thanks.
    PS3 contact: InfernoSkeletor
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  21. #1346
    Heroic Warrior CanadaClassics's Avatar
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    I like the new comic, but when the 1 year subscription runs out I am not going to renew, I have had four of the nine issues damaged - rips in covers / deep folds creases / damaged spines due to the brutal way these are sent out. I e-mail DC before the sub started and asked about how they were sent out, and they replied boarded and bagged. There is no board, it is a fine plastic with a piece of paper. I would buy the issues going forward at my locla comic store, but I would have to replace 4 issues, so far, 3 left to go, to have them nice in my collection, and I am NOT re-buying them. I passed on the DC crossover since my collection is ending. Waste of money.
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  22. #1347
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    MOTU DC Ongoing Comic General/Subscription/Upcoming Issues Discussion

    As per the moderator request I started another thread.

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...-women-feel%29

    I ask that you guys watch the clip and respond to it in that thread. I only mention it in this thread because I had intended to originally post it in this here before Mike posted his above warning.I really think Dustin Hoffman says it better then I can. I agree that we should stay on topic since the issue I raised was sparked by The Goddesss' appearance on the comic cover. What I want people to ask is

    Why do the guys get more clothes while simultaneously the women have less.

    Why is The Goddess now the ONLY character who is nearly naked.

    That is the issue at hand. Everything else is just besides the point I am making about these comics. We are not talking about vintage MOTU, Classics, 200X or other fantasy characters...Fantasy characters, analyze that term. Who's fantasy? What type of fantasy? Why? It is hypocritical that all the guys get real good useful armor and Teela can be killed by a small dagger to the mid section. That makes me angry. I would think that should make all sons, brothers and fathers very angry what it tells girls and women...It's sexist. DC & Mattel has given Armor to the men in more better ways then it is to women. That is the topic of discussion after seeing images like that.

    Before this, it was less of a problem in previous versions of MOTU due to the women often having more clothing then the guys did. Now it is reverse. In previous version the woman more capable or having higher ranks then the guys. In DC's MOTU the women have NO POWER. This is literally the case with Adora. No She-Ra for her...Adora can't even get a B plot. The REASON it was IMPORTANT to abduct her? Is now none at all...Shadow Weaver and Sorceress where easily killed in very violent ways by men with more power...Which was previously NOT the case. In the past the Sorceress and Shadow Weaver almost always had MORE power then Skeletor and Hordak. He-Man's mom one of the most capable, strong and heroic women has been almost completely absent and has yet to do anything useful in her couple pages of cameo apperance...Evil-Lyn used sex as a weapon and even made a lesbian joke. Now to add insult to injury The Goddess is the ONLY near naked character...

    C'mon! How are you NOT seeing this? It's as if a bunch of five year old boys are writing this crap. I DEMAND better MOTU comics. I DEMAND equality. I like MOTU and I like comics. I continue to support this comic in the HOPE that we will get BETTER MOTU comics. I had hopes since the dialog and art seamed to have improved...

    Now lets focus on the how DC depicts our Princess of Power. That is a problem for this book...


    Quote Originally Posted by ksharpe View Post
    Sorry those are really distorted examples.





    1 ) because Super hero males are already bodybuilder type characters that are IDEALIZED.



    2) Most traditional super heroes are already drawn like NUDE MALES that appear to have skin tight/painted on costumes.



    3) For every one or two you point out like RED SONJA, I can name a Thundra, or Sif or Mohawked Storm.





    and again.. He-man , Skeletor, Vykor, Conan, Blacktstar are almost nude as well.



    If we wanna argue teelas look is just bad.. I'm on board. But Masters is a FANTASY concept by way of sci-fi.... im not exactly sure what people were expecting. I just cant agree that theres some sinister or overly disrespectful intent.



    Man/artists idealize the form male and female to be heroic to extreme degrees to what is pleasing to them. its happened all though out art.
    The men might dress in a similar way but they are not drawn in sensual way. The women are...That is the hypocrisy I am pointing out. I do not think the examples I gave are distorted, I believe it is our (men) POV that is distorted.

    Lets look at the cover in question. Our eyes are drawn to the Goddess bare breasts...At no point in the totality of Sword and Sorcery has a man's reproductive organs been the focal points. Always the biceps. Always the abs. Always the naked body of a guy his junk is the ONLY thing that is covered because who wants to look at that?!?!?! with Superheroes half the time the junk has to be covered up TWICE!



    ...

    That isn't for the ladies

    ...

    It isn't even for the gay men.

    It is for the straight man. it is for US...and it isn't about being sexy.

    But the women? Oh look at the woman. That amount of sexy will give grandpa a heart attack!


    I don't know how well everybody knows this, but He-Man was co-created by someone with body image issues...He was a "skinny twerp" (his words, you should read Roger Sweets book) Big muscles and showing them off was at the core foundation of He-Man's creation...Some people read into that a homoerotic undertone, but I think that is projection. It is 100& about Roger Sweets inadequacy issues due to being bullied by girls...It is literally about POWER. As the story goes a bunch of guys looked at three clay models. One half naked man and said "that has the power" thus He-Man was born...

    ...

    I just want that to sink in people. Serious. stop reading and just think about that...

    ---

    For that matter Conan's creator Robert E Howard was a "Mama's boy" who couldn't handle a relationship with women...He committed suicide in his 30's...But I don't want to get off topic...Since day one Mattel has ALWAYS been uncomfortable with He-Man's near nudity. Mattel has always giving him more armor because "kids" think he needs pants...The same kids who enjoy wresting. It is not about sexy male bodies on display. If it was, then they would be fighting AND twerking the monsters...like a male stripper... If women fought monsters and dragons IRL or in a comic while posing like they often do (a center fold) then armor or not, they gonna die...Make no mistake, subconsciously or intentionally, THAT is why we see the Goddess chest on display while He-Man's is covered. That is why Teela has LESS armor then He-Man...

    I have not purchased a comic like that since I was a teenager. It's embarrassing. I've never been ashamed to be a He-Fan before this comic series. I don't want someone picking up this comic because "oh look boobies", we do not need those "readers" because that is not what MOTU is about. It might have a lot of skin, but it has never been about sex...and has everything to do with male centered ego...

    Fantasy by its very nature is a distortion of reality, but it hardly removed from it. It doesn't exist in a vacuum. I think we need to look at the motivating factors of what we dream about and why? It is fantasy and art so of course it is going to be idealized. But who is doing the fantasizing? Why? Who's ideals? What is being embellished? For what audience? Why are women treated differently? More to the point, why are the women in these MOTU comics treated differently then they where treated in prior version of MOTU?

    These are important motivating factors in how we teat one another and see our selves... This is especially important as we welcome more girls into our boys clubs across ALL media. MOTU is a rare thing because it is not a boys only club. Almost half the childhood audience was young girls. That is why they made She-Ra! I do not want that to change. I want girls to feel welcome to enjoy MOTU because in the past they have been. I do not want to see the morality that Lou Scheimer interjected into MOTU go away. That was a Man who loved his daughter and wife and it showed...For a half hour commercial I learned a lot from that show. I do not want DC or Mattel to do away with the girls by treating the ones they own badly.

    [sorry, that got rantyand was not directed at you, it just fit next to what I was saying to you. I apologize if you though that any of my anger was directed at you. It isn't. It is directed at DC and Mattel, you just happened to be in between us and pushed a button...Really I swear I'm not trying to be adversarial to any of my fellow community members. I hope everyone knows that.]

    I do not know if the intent is sinister, but a person can be disrespectful without ever realizing it. We all have suffered from Foot in Mouth disease at some point. Men who write/draw women in MOTU (or any form of fiction, and especially IRL) need to understand why and how they make women feel. As men should worry about how their feelings affect how we feel about them! Emotional Inception



    When women are happy we are happy. When a woman is not happy we can be VERY unhappy...We have all lived in "the dog house" at some point in our lives...I'll stop that train of thought and save it for Tar Swamp. I hope you join in that conversion I started, it's an important topic obviously has it's seed from this one.

    To your point in regards to Teela's look, I ask which one? Armor or Bikini? Both? How would you fix it? I like that she is dressing more like a Captain of the Royal Guard or a"Woman At Arms." It is about time. I just wish she puts the restof the armor on. But then I guess we all know that she just loves to strip!



    By the way, big fan of your work! I often check your deviantART page. You have the type of clear clean bold lines that I enjoy. You understand anatomy better then most. You have a very classic non-anime influence that is so underrated in the market these days. It is such a great style, but more importantly you have class! Your women are not drawn in a hyper sexualized way. Even the DC, Marvel and other "bad girls" you draw that have stripper "clothing" look nice and classy. That is hard to pull off, almost impossible even...You show restraint and obvious respect for woman that I'm talking about. I think that is all I am asking from DC and Mattel. It's great to see you on the .Org! Mattel and DC need to see how proper MOTU art looks and you are helping the cause! Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    If people are uncomfortable with a character, then they shouldn't collect the book --

    I can't agree with the. I LOVED Preacher...I never expected that ending...



    I wouldn't recommend that book due to the blasphemy...but God forgive me, it was good story telling. In a story I'm not looking to be comforted (mostof the time) I'm looking to be challenged. Same is true of conversation. I'll take "I agree" as a response, but more often then not I'm looking for a convincing argument of WHY I'm wrong.

    Except in this case, the Goddess nudity & Teela bad armor thing. I'm looking for a "huh never looked at it like that before" because I'm 100% right about this one

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    just don't change the main character to attract some fan who barely cares anyway. That was my point about people not liking He-Man because he didn't wear pants or that he was a barbarian..
    On that we agree. Have I not made that clear? I'm sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I'm far more open to the idea of scantily clad characters both male and female (I fought for Battleground Teela after all and I want Oo-Larr). However, for all my love of skin, I don't think that EVERYONE should have a lack of clothing though. Just as there are characters of both sexes who are covered from head-to-toe, there are characters who wear bathing suits for their most iconic costumes. There should be a balance, not a majority of one over the other. You like half-naked women, fine--go read Red Sonja. You want a woman who's completely covered, go read Batgirl.
    I like BG Teela (though IMC it is Sharella) and I want Alcala He-Man in Classics. Being scantily clad isn't the issue. If it was I'd hate the beach (I don't) I take issue with who is clad in what and why. What is the context? Is it applied equally to both genders? Lets keep this completely on topic. WHY is the Goddess nearly nude while every guy is covered all the way up to the chin in heavy duty armor... Why can Teela be killed by a pair of chop sticks?

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    A lack of armor would be a problem for any warrior. But that's never been much of an issue in MOTU, Conan, Red Sonja, Edgar Rice Bourroughs or other pulp style heroes. Those heroes are fighting monsters and defeating hordes half-naked.
    Who would do that without a full on Knight's armor?!?!?! That's my point, it's fantasy in the most extreme way.

    More so fantasy by and for men...MOTU in the past is for both, it's why we have more female and LGBT members of our community then Transformers or G.I. Joe...Both are fairly more "masculine" then He-Man's brand. Now that IS ironic...It is also WHY I like MOTU, I like the girl characters more. They are pretty and strong. She-ra even has MORE powers then He-Man! That is why i can completely understand Bronies without being one. I could totally be one if i watched that show...

    MY POINT is "where my ladies at?" because it seams to me they got turned away. Are thier ANY female readers still with "us"?

    Hello.

    Girls?

    is any woman reading this? (is anyone reading this...)



    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Teela's old costume only became a real issue once He-Man traded up his yellow cross barbarian look for armor. Ed Benes also drew the same old Teela costume that we've been seeing for a year before. People were more concerned with her hair than her costume.
    I'm confused as to what you are referring to? Teela's original iconic costume, or the bikini one?

    Her hair color was the surface conversion, it's the attitude that I take umbrage against.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Men and women are different sexes. I have no problem with sexy poses so long as it's in character (Emma Frost, Dejah Thoris) or in a certain context (Catwoman being playful or flirtatious).

    But for the record, that pose is terrible for WW.


    Dude, girls responded to TWILIGHT.
    I don't understand Twilight or why a women would wantto dress like Emma Frost...However I do understand why they exist. How men write/draw women is the heart of the topic we are discussing, However I started a Tar Swamp thread to continue that particular tangent of this conversation. I hope you join and everyone looks at that thread.

    the record, that pose is natural, It is the pose the 4HM went to great pains to represent in plastic form of Teela/Evil-Lyn...it's the proportions and anatomy of that WW that are terrible. But that isn't the point of the picture. The point is to compare it to whet the men are dressed like...Again. I don't want to get off topic. Look to Teela. I can't kill Randor with chop sticks...

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Filmation made their female characters strong, when so many other lines didn't have any female characters at all. They even introduced more females to the mythos that we are now getting as Classics.

    At least DC females have more staying power on the comic racks. Wonder Woman, Birds of Prey, Supergirl, World's Finest, Batgirl. Poor Marvel is still looking for their Wonder Woman equivalent. DC has a host of awesome female characters, in spite of the current editorial control. That's the key here -- current editors.

    Even Rob Liefeld can't stand DC right now...George Perez and a bunch of others.
    I think how Mattel treats genders is also at the heart of that...We have Blond Bikini Teela because Scott wanted a Slave Leia of their own for SDCC...
    What does that say about us? What does it say that nobody knew who that was supposed to be? Only people like us would have seen her as Teela...

    Rob Liefeld leaving DC due to his moral standards says it ALL! That is just sad on every level...DC and Mattel just Britta everything they do...

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...ic-d6pvppa.jpg

    Back to the topic of the MOTU Comic, this is a Teela character study by Michael O'Hare, the current artist...

    http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...ic-d6p943t.jpg

    Randor is here too!
    Right. Look at that. Can't stab Randor in the side or cut off his arm with a small sword or large knife...And depending on the artist that armor is smaller and smaller.







    (wow that became an essay I didn't expect to write today...)
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  23. #1348
    Evil Spy Warrior triklops1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...ic-d6pvppa.jpg

    Back to the topic of the MOTU Comic, this is a Teela character study by Michael O'Hare, the current artist...

    http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...ic-d6p943t.jpg

    Randor is here too!
    Ohhh I like these re-designs, I can see them working for the big screen
    "The most powerful man in the universe..."
    "I was summoned on the future..."
    "Where hope seems lost..."
    "A hero shall emerge to protect Eternia..."

  24. #1349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    I would need to see a few more pages but so far I agree that this is much better.

    It's a bit too stylised and 'debut' artist for my personal taste but it's a definte style that works and has a chunky vibe that I like for MOTU.

    Lets hope this penciller and this colourist actually stay on board refine their style (as what tends to happen when allowed to stay on a title for a long run) for folks to notice and perhaps reconsider picking this so far lack luster comic up.

    Lets also hope they improve the writing next and give us a comic we can be actually proud to buy and not just hiding under our Conan or Thor out of embarrassment.
    Eamon - I want to start by saying this post is not meant in an argumentative way, I'm asking because I'm GENUINELY interested.

    Now, my questions is this, since you said that you like Michael O'Hare's art but found it a little "too stylized" how would you have done it? Really, what I'm asking is, would time allow you to re-do one of those pages? Is that even legal? Obviously, your art is exceptional and you have some really STRONG opinions about the way MOTU should be done. I'd LOVE to see your take on some panels or pages, just to see the different ways different artists take on a task.

  25. #1350
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    Teela survived just fine on her own abilities before she got her armor. I'm sure the Goddess, who is set up in this series to be possibly all-powerful, will be okay with some skin showing.

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