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Thread: Hasbro 4th quarter losses, layoff planned

  1. #1
    Shivering Isles resident diosoth's Avatar
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    Hasbro 4th quarter losses, layoff planned

    http://bostonglobe.com/business/2013...DrM/story.html

    I'm not surprised. Brian Goldner is an idiot and the company has been faltering under his "leadership". They killed off GI Joe, sold Transformers to the worst film director out there and despite those movies somehow being successful, Hasbro gets so little from them with Bay, Murphy, etc pocketing most of that money. The films made 3 bil worldwide and Hasbro is still in trouble? MLP is a runaway success of a show but hasbro barely cared to make toys based on that cartoon and only got around to it 2 years after the show began, which really hurt the toy sales. "Pink sells" is all this company can see for lines aimed at girls, but it's not true. Marvel is barely doing well thanks to movie lines piling up in stores, Star wars is really only kept alive thanks to SW fans and face it, the company hasn't had a new IP in almost 20 years. The best they've done lately is dig up a couple of old, forgotten brands. Transformers isn't what it was and they're actually getting their butts handed to them by 3rd party companies. They lost money on the Battleship film, and they keep driving their old customers away with their "the fans don't matter" attitude(see my sig).

    Bad 4th quarter? 2012 was actually a really lousy year for Hasbro seeing as their 1st and 2nd quarters were also poor. The 3rd was their only positive for the year. At the rate they're going the company might end up in bad trouble- I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of their acquired companies get sold off to competitors this year and brands scaled back big time.

    Meanwhile, Mattel is on top thanks to Monster High.

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior eurorko's Avatar
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    I'm not surprised either. It is so disappointing since they have so many great brands. I agree with everything you said. They make way too many variants of characters in both their boy and girl lines. When will companies learn that not all kids want 50 different versions of Iron Man or Pinkie Pie. I'm sure parents don't want to spend their hard earned money on duplicates. I do think that if done right Jem could be some major competition for Monster High, but seeing as how these other properties have been handled I doubt it.

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    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    It's unfortunate that the american toy climate is so hostile right now. Hasbro are the only large company producing boy's toys of any quality, and even with Star Wars they're doing badly. Mattel has surrendered the boy's department due to unprofitability, and everyone else is minor. The age of action figures truly is past...

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    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    It's unfortunate that the american toy climate is so hostile right now. Hasbro are the only large company producing boy's toys of any quality, and even with Star Wars they're doing badly. Mattel has surrendered the boy's department due to unprofitability, and everyone else is minor. The age of action figures truly is past...
    Mattel surrendered the retail market for boys toys but they still make them. They just up on MattyCollector where Mattel has to pay NOTHING to retail partners thus = higher profit margin. So in a sense Mattel realized the pattern of the industry and adapted, Hasbro has not.

    I am not surprised in the least, I have given up 95% of my Hasbro lines. I get the occasional Clone Wars figure but that is it. Transformers by third parties are so amazing in quality and design its almost a farce to buy the "real" thing.

    Add into that the failure of Battleship and the DOA GI Joe movie line due to the movies delay and its a recipe for disaster
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  5. #5
    plastic vice Phil.Pastel's Avatar
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    The problem is these superhero movie lines. My area is loaded with Thor, Iron Man 2, and Captain America. They don't move. And now avengers are starting to sit. the flip and attack's are now starting to hit wholesalers and are an embarrassment. Someone should be fired for that.

    I'm not a big fan of Prime either. I do not like the way they look. Coming out with a Beast Wars type line was a mistake, IMO.
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  6. #6
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Mattel surrendered the retail market for boys toys but they still make them. They just up on MattyCollector where Mattel has to pay NOTHING to retail partners thus = higher profit margin. So in a sense Mattel realized the pattern of the industry and adapted, Hasbro has not.
    MOTU Classics might as well not exist in the mind of the general populace, since they are only marketed online, not advertised anywhere, and are extremely overpriced for their quality. The line has no discernable impact on the toy market of the US, much less the world, and even less impact on Mattel's revenues. Every other line on Mattycollector has been a huge flop. While I will agree that the US retail system is crazy and that online distribution is the way to go, Mattel still isn't making any boy's toys worth mentioning.

  7. #7
    plastic vice Phil.Pastel's Avatar
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    It is a tough business right now. It saddens me to see that Thundercats did so poorly. The cartoon was excellent and the toys are good (if not great). The 4" inch figures are only $4 at Five Below and they aren't moving
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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Not surprised when there is nothing from them I want anymore. They have pretty much ruined Transformers. They pretty much killed GI Joe. They cheapened the plastic, cut back on the accessories, shrunk the figures, but raised their prices and expected people to be okay with that? Add that they just aren't releasing must buy characters as they are just recycling Bumblebee, Prime, and a few others most of the time and you have a company that went from my favorite company since 1996 to a company I could care less about in 2012. They should have just kept the 30th Anniversary GI Joe planned to run with the movie line, so that when the movie had been pushed back, they would have still had a toyline to keep people buying. That isn't to say I will never buy another Joe again, because there are still some characters that if they ever release new versions of, I'll buy them, but I am pretty much done buying huge lots. As for Transformers, if the line died tomorrow I would not care.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  9. #9
    Demonlord of Evil Galmorzu's Avatar
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    My all-time favorite toyline has been Transformers, and for several years I've been really happy with what they've released (for the most part). But lately, the quality has dropped so much that I've pretty much stopped buying completely, and just turned my attention to the 3rd party stuff.

    I know the economy is bad, but the figures themselves have been hurt so much that I've felt incredibly disappointed with the last several figures I've bought. The Classics/Generations line has sunk, what with the much smaller figures with basic transformations and molds, which...just feel and look cheap. Coupled with the nearly $20 price tag for the deluxes, I can't justify buying them anymore. Even the larger scale figures just feel terrible. FoC Soundwave was alright, but Grimlock is terrible. He looks okay in bot mode, but in hand, he feels like really cheap plastic, and the transformation almost feels like knock-off level. The Prime toys are even worse with the voyager class feeling incredible toned down and cheap.

    I think the last transformer I got that I really, really liked was the Generations Lugnut, which looked and felt amazing. The last LARGE scale transformer I was utterly blown away by was Primus. Nowadays, the only time we get large scale figures are when they release yet ANOTHER Prime or Bumblebee, and I have no desire to own more of those two. I miss the days when large scale releases were actually new, LARGE SCALE characters.

    I would still love a FoC Trypticon that size that transforms into the Nemesis, but I think about how it would probably come out, and I lose all hope for it. Hasbro has really gone down across the board, and I hate to see a line that I once collected hardcore since the Beast War days (those were some great figures...) turn into what it is now.
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  10. #10
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    MOTU Classics might as well not exist in the mind of the general populace, since they are only marketed online, not advertised anywhere, and are extremely overpriced for their quality. The line has no discernable impact on the toy market of the US, much less the world, and even less impact on Mattel's revenues. Every other line on Mattycollector has been a huge flop. While I will agree that the US retail system is crazy and that online distribution is the way to go, Mattel still isn't making any boy's toys worth mentioning.
    We will have to agree to disagree, I actually run a retail store so I see a few things the general population does not in terms of profit margins and revenue Going online does a huge impact on your bottom line whether you see it, its there

    Its one of the reasons Hasbro is getting more legal about Transformers (cease and desist, legal challenges, threats), the third party online only companies out of Asia are wiping the floor with them in terms of sales and profit as well as design.

    MattyCollector cuts out the middle man so when a line fails there it hurts far less than in a retail store, if a line dies at Walmart and Target you get hit especially hard in your financials. If it fails online you feel it but its negligible and won't kill the license completely.

    Hasbro has no real online only presence so when GI Joe or Battleship died a horrible retail death it impacted them 100x worse then if it had failed only on hasbrotoyshop.com, it also puts your partnerships with retail at risk if you have too many flops because they won't be as accommodating to secure you shelf space.
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  11. #11
    plastic vice Phil.Pastel's Avatar
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    Mattel will have their own problems when they run out of characters that can no longer use the standard buck (disco skeletor, anyone?)...

    The bottom line is you can't put out an Iron Man line with 20 different versions of Iron Man. Particularly when they are all the same size and none of them stand out from the others. And you can't take characters like Iron Man or Incredble Hulk and make them into Transformers.
    It makes no sense.
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  12. #12
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Its one of the reasons Hasbro is getting more legal about Transformers (cease and desist, legal challenges, threats), the third party online only companies out of Asia are wiping the floor with them in terms of sales and profit as well as design.
    "Getting legal" about your properties is part of what trademarks are, isn't it? If someone started up a company making third-party figures of MOTU characters under thinly veiled other names with slight changes and improved articulation and accessories, I'm pretty sure Mattel would do their best to take them to court.

    That being said, third party Transformers don't make their creators that much money. They order in significantly smaller quantities than Hasbro or Takara or Bandai, or Mattel, so they are forced to charge a lot higher per figure to recompense their expenses. Furthermore, being based in a country like China and hiding under a veil of anonymity (most of these companies never reveal employee names) allow them to fudge around with numbers to avoid taxation. To add to that, most of these companies probably don't have a contractual structure, instead having people work for hire, not paying out insurances and yaddayaddayadda, the way a company in the west HAS to.

    Under those circumstances it's much easier to turn a profit from a small line. Less expenses.


    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Hasbro has no real online only presence so when GI Joe or Battleship died a horrible retail death it impacted them 100x worse then if it had failed only on hasbrotoyshop.com, it also puts your partnerships with retail at risk if you have too many flops because they won't be as accommodating to secure you shelf space.
    The same happened with Mattel and their Green Lantern and Dark Knight Rises toylines, which were huge flops. The real problem isn't with the fact that the toys are out on shelves, the trouble is that due to the financial climate, people buy less toys. US retailers are still convinced movie tie-in toylines are the best thing since sliced bread, and tend to over-order on them horribly. Naturally, toy companies try to accomodate that desire.

    Now, going online is a good idea, but without retail presence it means a significant downsizing in audience, which likely means even more people laid off to accomodate. For a company like Hasbro or Mattel to downsize to a Third Party-size operation would mean immense amounts of sackings and downsizing... which obviously no american toy company is eager to do! Add to that that a western company would still HAVE to pay employee wages, pay for their insurance, holidays and such in accordance with US labor laws, and you're facing an enormous catch-22.

    So until times improve, letting common people purchase more luxury items like toys, things will probably not improve for any western toy manufacturer.

  13. #13
    Always Hungry.... Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    http://bostonglobe.com/business/2013...DrM/story.html

    I'm not surprised. Brian Goldner is an idiot and the company has been faltering under his "leadership". They killed off GI Joe, sold Transformers to the worst film director out there and despite those movies somehow being successful, Hasbro gets so little from them with Bay, Murphy, etc pocketing most of that money. The films made 3 bil worldwide and Hasbro is still in trouble? MLP is a runaway success of a show but hasbro barely cared to make toys based on that cartoon and only got around to it 2 years after the show began, which really hurt the toy sales. "Pink sells" is all this company can see for lines aimed at girls, but it's not true. Marvel is barely doing well thanks to movie lines piling up in stores, Star wars is really only kept alive thanks to SW fans and face it, the company hasn't had a new IP in almost 20 years. The best they've done lately is dig up a couple of old, forgotten brands. Transformers isn't what it was and they're actually getting their butts handed to them by 3rd party companies. They lost money on the Battleship film, and they keep driving their old customers away with their "the fans don't matter" attitude(see my sig).

    Bad 4th quarter? 2012 was actually a really lousy year for Hasbro seeing as their 1st and 2nd quarters were also poor. The 3rd was their only positive for the year. At the rate they're going the company might end up in bad trouble- I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of their acquired companies get sold off to competitors this year and brands scaled back big time.

    Meanwhile, Mattel is on top thanks to Monster High.
    Isn't it funny that just because Hasbro had a bad quarter now all of a sudden Mattel is "perfect".... Rather one sided now yes?

    And I LOVE how people keep bashing other companies and Mattel is great in their eyes you think they were working for Mattel or getting a kickback from them...I get they forgot about all of the problems DR had.....(Is still having)
    Last edited by Megalodon; January 27, 2013 at 02:20pm.

  14. #14
    plastic vice Phil.Pastel's Avatar
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    I don't think a lot of lines are doing well right now. Halo figures are becoming increasingly hard to find around here. All you ever see is little miscellanous junk similar to Kreo's.

    I'm afraid in a few years there won't be any more action figures. There will only be little miniatures and other garbage that looks like it came out of a bubble gum machine. I'm not worried about it though. I plan to make to make more money in the future and give up figures for more exciting hobbies. Plus, there is more than 30 years of figures in the rear view mirror. You can always just collect older toys - of which there is too much for any one person to ever get them all.
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    As a TF collector, I've been put off by the fact Hasbro has been making smaller figures (for their respective size classes) with fewer paint aps, all while asking higher prices. These factors have me being more selective with my purchases. The TF Prime animation has been great, and the toyline as a whole has been decent. Although something I've noticed over the past couple years is that the level of quality control has been creeping ever downwards. In fact, I've had many more issues with Hasbro TFs than I've ever had with MOTUC. I returned 2 TF Prime Rumbles on 2 separate occassions due to QC issues on the head (a bunch of glue on one; a broken 'antennae' on the other). Even when I found a 3rd Rumble for $7 at a discount store, I just decided to leave it be. Not an isolated issue for me.

    All that said, I'll keep buying TFs as long as Hasbro and TakTom keep making cool figures. The only thing that would cause me to consider swearing off them completely is if they become too heavy-handed with the 3rd party companies. Peaceful coexistence is the way to go.
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    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Kids nowadays are more interested in putting on a condom than an Optimus Prime voice-changer helmet. Sorry, had to say it. Its true, though, how early are kids expected to grow out of playing with toys now? Eight, nine? Everyone is in such a rush to be an adult today.

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    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    The only two hasbro lines that hold any appeal for me are Star Wars and GI Joe, and I didn't stick with GI Joe because they didn't retain the classic character designs just as they got to some of my favorites (Serpentor and Dr. Mindbender). And some cool things like Destro as an Iron Granadier didn't come with his classic vehicle. It's kind of a drag being a fan of the old GI Joe cartoon as no media tie-in has ever appealed to me since with that brand, not even the DIC show. By the time they added the movie line, I was off my nostalgia kick and I don't think I needed to be if they'd kept with the classic designs. In that sense I can actually understand the position of vintage purists with MOTUC. While not all of the originals look worthy to me, I understand not wanting to see radical changes if that's the particular angle of your nostalgia. So for me, if they suddenly picked back up with the 25th Anniversary model, I might come back.

    For Star Wars though I was never turned off by the direction of the toys, in fact I like new characters plenty. I just never was a completist with that line. I am not a fan of droids, troopers, or endless variants. I love Sith characters, really love tracking down all the Darths, but I'm not one who'll buy every Maul and Vader I see, and I don't buy vehicles or beasts or anything so if they depended on that then I was never their ideal customer. While they must be licking their lips at the promise of new Star Wars movies now, I wonder why the Clone Wars TV show hasn't helped them out more. Too rooted in the vehicles and iconography of the prequels (and the lamest movie in the franchise even)? Maybe an overhaul of new designs and armies as would--I hope--come with a new trilogy will make the difference? That is my hope anyway. I can't imagine someone other than Hasbro making Star Wars toys--don't want to see how badly another company could bungle it frankly. Because if Star Wars can't make it, toys are sunk.

    Beyond that they don't have any lines I care about. I'm not a Transformers fan, and I'm sorry to hear of the problems.
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  18. #18
    plastic vice Phil.Pastel's Avatar
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    Does anybody know if the Hobbit figures are selling? My Kmart got in a million of them. I don't think they are moving, particularly for a new line.
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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Kids nowadays are more interested in putting on a condom than an Optimus Prime voice-changer helmet. Sorry, had to say it. Its true, though, how early are kids expected to grow out of playing with toys now? Eight, nine? Everyone is in such a rush to be an adult today.
    Oh you should hear the things coming out of the mouths of freaking Kindergartners these days. In one of the classes I was subbing for one of them came up to me and said, "Mr Teacher, she told me to **** off and called me a ****."

    One of those rhymes with luck and the other rhymes with nut.

    I could not believe it when they are only 5. FIVE!!!
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  20. #20
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    For Star Wars though I was never turned off by the direction of the toys, in fact I like new characters plenty.
    I agree with you totally here. I will say though, the Vintage Collection versions of characters make pretty much everything that came before obsolete, which feels nice. I don't even have to think about collecting older lines anymore, because every major character is done a lot better in this line. I'm not sure what's replacing it now, though. Hopefully it will have the same attitude of making the "ultimate" version of each character.

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    Not surprising, the Marvel movie lines cluttering shelves nationwide is an indicator of this. The endless variants and cheap plastic and in some cases, poor sculpts.

    Star Wars / Clone Wars are the only Hasbro products I buy now and they do a good job with them, but we don't need endless variants here either - but this has been going on for years, so its not a new problem, I just wish they streamlined things a bit.

    I've stopped buying TF and GI Joe and have no interest in the Marvel Legends, only bought one figure and it just didn't feel right.

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  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    I never understood why you guys can stand to buy the Star Wars toys. They have very little articulation, especially in the legs.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

    Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

  23. #23
    Plundor Promoter He-Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    I never understood why you guys can stand to buy the Star Wars toys. They have very little articulation, especially in the legs.
    I don't play with them.....hell I don't even open them. It's about the character, not the articulation. Now I have bought some for my 7 year old and he loves playing with them as well. He prefers them and the Power Ranger figures to anything else right now. Kids don't seem to care about articulation either. As long as the guy can sit in his Podracer he is happy .

  24. #24
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Kids nowadays are more interested in putting on a condom than an Optimus Prime voice-changer helmet. Sorry, had to say it. Its true, though, how early are kids expected to grow out of playing with toys now? Eight, nine? Everyone is in such a rush to be an adult today.
    I think it's more like video games, such as Skylanders and Pokemon. Kids don't need physical toys when their figures are in video game systems.

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  25. #25
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    I never understood why you guys can stand to buy the Star Wars toys.
    Because they're awesome!







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