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Thread: Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC News Thread February 2013

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior RyDell's Avatar
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    We have until August to cancel... we will see a final product, or very close to it at SDCC. I will hold off the doom and gloom until then. Yes it's smaller, but I never once thought that He-Man ON BC was gonna fit thru that door. My bigger issue is that there IS NO FLOOR under the throne!!! How the heck does that work?
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  2. #102
    Heroic Warrior TwoBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekk-ra View Post
    Two weeks is not a lot of time to sculpt something as big as CG, paint it, plop it into display, and say "We can't change anything; it's too late now." Yes, they can. They haven't had the time to accurately gauge how the sculpt works out, hence the "the walls will be thinner on the production" type answers.

    I did notice that the suggestion to place the CG jawbridge into the base wasn't shot down as abruptly as the answers about the dungeon grate. Doesn't give me hope, but it is one change they can do to throw a bone to the fans whose pre-orders prompted the funding for this playset.

    Don't get me wrong. I see way, way more about CG that I like than I dislike and I'm glad it's coming, but TG (corporate mode) has a way of leaving a bad taste in one's mouth.
    Agreed...two weeks is a very short time. Looks like CG got very little love. It was made very fast and quick. The only design document probably was the sheet they showed us. Took that and enlarged it.
    To me, it's very obvious that CG wasn't well taken care of. Someone wanted the numbers, baked it in two weeks, threw it at the fans faces and said if you don't like it then go ahead and cancel.

  3. #103
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBad View Post
    Agreed...two weeks is a very short time. Looks like CG got very little love. It was made very fast and quick. The only design document probably was the sheet they showed us. Took that and enlarged it.
    To me, it's very obvious that CG wasn't well taken care of. Someone wanted the numbers, baked it in two weeks, threw it at the fans faces and said if you don't like it then go ahead and cancel.
    Sorry, I am going to have to use an emoticon that I rarely use.

    What does "wanted the numbers" even mean? And how long SHOULD something take to sculpt when 16 people are working on it?

  4. #104
    Heroic Warrior TwoBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Sorry, I am going to have to use an emoticon that I rarely use.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBad View Post
    You don't have to be sorry, you can roll'em anytime and as long as you want.
    Thank you. Now, would you care to explain how long is needed for 16 people to work on a project before a sufficient level of love is invested? And who "wanted the numbers?" And what exactly they wanted numbers for? And how does sculpting a castle play into a desire for said numbers?

  6. #106
    Heroic Warrior wundarwarrior's Avatar
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    Grayskull is extremely Nice IMO but I do feel cheated about the size loss. It's crazy that Mattel didn't learn their lesson with the Hoverboard. I would rather have had less accessories to get the height back. If they had held a poll to see if people wanted the size or the pieces I'd feel less upset regardless of the outcome. Now it seems like they chose what they preferred and then said cancel if you don't like it. However, I am glad Scott admitted that the size was altered. But the sale statement said we would get the blueprints, no less. I'm fairly certain there was a question asked about the phrasing and Scott reiterated that the drawing was the minimum. I am still stoked to get the castle nonetheless.

  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior TwoBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Thank you. Now, would you care to explain....
    Not really, no...respectfully

  8. #108
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBad View Post
    Not really, no...respectfully
    No problem man. That is perfectly understandable. In the end, we all have different opinions about stuff. I may not understand it, but you're perfectly entitled to them.

  9. #109
    Heroic Warrior GFunny's Avatar
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    The one thing that bothers me the most is that every answer is "if you don't like it, cancel". To me, that's the one thing anyone in customer relations should never say. Isn't there some kind of customer retention department, obviously not if they are just willing to let us all walk. Wow, that gets under my skin so bad and I think it's because they just don't care. Have they ever cared? I think so, but I believe they stopped at some point. Not sure when but when you have the designers allocate all of two weeks for the development of "the largest, most elaborate and detailed play set ever created", I strongly believe that the love is gone and the only thing that we can do which will never get done is to respond to there threat and have everyone cancel their pre-orders.

    I don't want to but how else can we get their attention and point out that this is truly a collectors line and not many of us are actually playing with theses toys and all we are looking for is an awesome way to display our loose collections. I don't know what else to say anymore other than "shame on them".
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  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior TwoBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    No problem man. That is perfectly understandable. In the end, we all have different opinions about stuff. I may not understand it, but you're perfectly entitled to them.
    Thank you
    I really didn't like what I saw and the answers I read regarding CG...so, I apologize if you find negativity in my posts.

  11. #111
    OVERLORD OF EVIL mdhollywood247's Avatar
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    It never ceases to amaze me just how spoiled some in this fan base are.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhollywood247 View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me just how spoiled some in this fan base are.
    It never ceases to amaze me just how some can somehow condescend to others who expect basic promises to be kept or a company to keep to their word, or who ignore overwhelming facts.

    As others have posted above (let me guess, didn't bother to, I dunno, read the thread you are replying to, did you?) TG specifically said at the time they were taking orders that we would see what was shown and not less. And Scott (in a very snarky, dismissive sort of way - kind of like your posting) that it was never offered or was to be included. But we have proof in this thread that it was.

    I was happy as a clam after the TF reveal. I think it's lame that they couldn't make it an inch or two bigger, but hey, it looks great and I was impressed with the accessories shown ON THE PRODUCT during its BIG REVEAL.

    And now we are finding out it doesn't come with this, it doesn't come with that. Now, I'm pretty upset. I was fine with what we were shown, and now we hear all the parts JUST REVEALED YESTERDAY are it included, and he knew already. That's inexcusable.

    I saw the pics of the parts laying on a table, and I'm like - that's barely $250 looking as it is. And now finding out we don't even get that? I mean, the dungeon looks cool but it's two tiny pieces of plastic. I refuse to believe that they make this project suddenly so much more expensive. And worse, the thing I thought was best about the castle was how solid it looked, and now he is like, "oh and it will be with thinner plastic".

    Are there spoiled people around here? Yes, personally I find the "oh noes, this one figure had a green buckle on their belt in Filmation and this one is red like 200x" stuff to sound rather spoiled. But it's not spoiled to expect promise after promise to come true and only be broken. It's so consistently a part of the MattyCollector culture and people seem to have such short memories that its put up with somehow for five years now.

    It's absolutely mind boggling here inside the "fan" bubble, sometimes.

  13. #113
    Heroic Warrior ADPriceless's Avatar
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    Here's one for you Scott: As the size and as a result the weight of the Castle has been reduced to fit within the $250 price envelope - any idea what the reduction in shipping costs to the customers will be as a result?

    I assume that all of these savings will be passed on to your loyal customers?

  14. #114
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADPriceless View Post
    Here's one for you Scott: As the size and as a result the weight of the Castle has been reduced to fit within the $250 price envelope - any idea what the reduction in shipping costs to the customers will be as a result?

    I assume that all of these savings will be passed on to your loyal customers?
    Don't hold your breath for it, it's going straight to Scott's end of the year bonus.

    Anyway, I assume that "hollowing out the walls" means that there's not going to be sculpted detail on the walls. Not that I'm too fussed about that, since I only wanted a facade to begin with, but as some interior parts do have sculpted brickwork it looks a bit strange.

    Very glad to see the Spirit of Grayskull was in the cards at some point. I hope we do get that Castle expansion pack at some point in the future.
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  15. #115
    It says ICEMAN oICEMANo's Avatar
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    How can they have a trap door that drops a fig into the doorway instead of the dungeon!! Thats the whole point of the trap door! I also hope they fix the floor by the throne room. WHy would they make a throne that hangs over the edge???
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by EtherianChronicles View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me just how some can somehow condescend to others who expect basic promises to be kept or a company to keep to their word, or who ignore overwhelming facts.

    As others have posted above (let me guess, didn't bother to, I dunno, read the thread you are replying to, did you?) TG specifically said at the time they were taking orders that we would see what was shown and not less. And Scott (in a very snarky, dismissive sort of way - kind of like your posting) that it was never offered or was to be included. But we have proof in this thread that it was.
    ...
    But it's not spoiled to expect promise after promise to come true and only be broken.
    Yeah, they really should have come through with what they wre promising.

    I'm acutally kind of torn on this issue. Despite these issues causing some minor disapointment for me, I'm still overall excited and looking forward to the castle.

    But having said that, I can fully understand why some fans are upset over these issues. We WERE promised these things, including the castle size, and that's not what we are getting.

    As someone said earlier, it's amazing and mind boggling that for legal reasons, during the sub sign up period, they can't tell us about figures planned for later in the year early just incase things change, but it IS okay to make all kinds of promises about a preorder item like this and not come through on them.

    They really need to look into the concept of under promising and over delivering... in other words the opposite of what they tend to do.

    Frankly on some level, I wish that some rich fan would hire a lawyer and take Mattel to task on this. We entered into a contract with Mattel when we preordered this castle based on everything we were being told. Now they aren't fullfilling THEIR end of the contract, and are acting like they are doing us a favor by letting us 'back out' of the contract. Instead, it is the fans who shouldn't let THEM back out on their end of the contract. They promised us a castle that was AT LEAST of the size that we were shown with the foam mock up, and that's what we SHOULD be getting.
    It's going to cost too much to make at that size and the $250 that they charged for the original preorder isn't going to be enough to cover it? Oh well! Then they should have planned their **** out better before promising us more than they can afford to make. Deliver what was promised!
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  17. #117
    Heroic Hero Grayskull's Heir's Avatar
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    I just want to chime in on a couple of things that others have already pointed out in this thread:

    1. The dungeon pit
    a.) In the b-sheet it can very clearly be seen that this was planned as a sculpted 3D piece from the very beginning. I know forum rules and such but this time I really think that the evidence we have seems to suggest that originally plans were different and Scott now just says they weren't. The 4H didn't sculpt it "for fun", no, they sculpted it because it was planned as a 3D piece from the beginning and is shown as such in the b-sheet. That's why the sculpted thing was shown when CG was revealed.
    b.) Scott clearly said that nothing shown in the b-sheet would be cut.

    2. Wind Raider parking spot
    Not only is it useless and nobidy wants it, there's also a new problem with it:
    Now that the Castle is slightly smaller than originally planned, the WR probably won't even fit in the castle anymore without its wings touching the Castle walls, which makes the whole thing even more pointless (if that's even possible)

    3. "Too late for changes"
    If it was sculpted in 14 days and can be changed in one or two days. Nuff said.
    I understand that making the castle bigger makes it too expensive and I can live with that. But I'm absolutely positive they can still change the jawbridge by making the base a bit thinner at the spot where the jawbridge goes and thus make the jawbridge taller.
    Moreover Scott is contradicting himself when he says "this is not the final version, there will be changes on the inside of the Castle" and "it's too late for changes"

    4. "If you don't wat it, cancel it"
    Again that is not the kind of customer relationship that seems fitting for a line that was virtually on life support half a year ago....
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    I just want to chime in on a couple of things that others have already pointed out in this thread:

    1. The dungeon pit
    a.) In the b-sheet it can very clearly be seen that this was planned as a sculpted 3D piece from the very beginning. I know forum rules and such but this time I really think that the evidence we have seems to suggest that originally plans were different and Scott now just says they weren't. The 4H didn't sculpt it "for fun", no, they sculpted it because it was planned as a 3D piece from the beginning and is shown as such in the b-sheet. That's why the sculpted thing was shown when CG was revealed.
    b.) Scott clearly said that nothing shown in the b-sheet would be cut.

    2. Wind Raider parking spot
    Not only is it useless and nobidy wants it, there's also a new problem with it:
    Now that the Castle is slightly smaller than originally planned, the WR probably won't even fit in the castle anymore without its wings touching the Castle walls, which makes the whole thing even more pointless (if that's even possible)

    3. "Too late for changes"
    If it was sculpted in 14 days and can be changed in one or two days. Nuff said.
    I understand that making the castle bigger makes it too expensive and I can live with that. But I'm absolutely positive they can still change the jawbridge by making the base a bit thinner at the spot where the jawbridge goes and thus make the jawbridge taller.
    Moreover Scott is contradicting himself when he says "this is not the final version, there will be changes on the inside of the Castle" and "it's too late for changes"

    4. "If you don't wat it, cancel it"
    Again that is not the kind of customer relationship that seems fitting for a line that was virtually on life support half a year ago....
    I am close to canceling but will wait to see the final at SDCC. Mattel frequently changes their story and they may reverse their stance once again. Especially if the orders don't come flying in at $275. The castle reveal was a little underwhelming. I hate how they are using CG to push the Wind Raider. I will put the training thing in that spot. I wanted that floor creature pit badly and now it is going to be a STICKER? I thought the whole point was to sculpt it all and have NO stickers?
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBad View Post
    Agreed...two weeks is a very short time. Looks like CG got very little love. It was made very fast and quick. The only design document probably was the sheet they showed us. Took that and enlarged it.
    To me, it's very obvious that CG wasn't well taken care of. Someone wanted the numbers, baked it in two weeks, threw it at the fans faces and said if you don't like it then go ahead and cancel.
    I can't wait to see your sculpt? Because to me this thing looks amazing, I don't know where the "little love" was?

    Quote Originally Posted by GFunny View Post
    The one thing that bothers me the most is that every answer is "if you don't like it, cancel". To me, that's the one thing anyone in customer relations should never say. Isn't there some kind of customer retention department, obviously not if they are just willing to let us all walk. Wow, that gets under my skin so bad and I think it's because they just don't care. Have they ever cared? I think so, but I believe they stopped at some point. Not sure when but when you have the designers allocate all of two weeks for the development of "the largest, most elaborate and detailed play set ever created", I strongly believe that the love is gone and the only thing that we can do which will never get done is to respond to there threat and have everyone cancel their pre-orders.

    I don't want to but how else can we get their attention and point out that this is truly a collectors line and not many of us are actually playing with theses toys and all we are looking for is an awesome way to display our loose collections. I don't know what else to say anymore other than "shame on them".
    The problem is the Castle is done, they've spent the resources to get it sculpted and this is it. You can't please people that want changes that are not feasible. Yes I'll get but we were promised this or that, and there are plenty of things I would like or would prefer. But I know that these people work hard to bring us items we want and it's never good enough. And if you're not happy with the Castle you can cancel your pre-order. So either you accept what we are getting or you cancel it? And it is a spectactular there is'nt a better sculpted playset out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdhollywood247 View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me just how spoiled some in this fan base are.
    I'm getting used to it, which is pretty sad

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    Don't hold your breath for it, it's going straight to Scott's end of the year bonus.

    Anyway, I assume that "hollowing out the walls" means that there's not going to be sculpted detail on the walls. Not that I'm too fussed about that, since I only wanted a facade to begin with, but as some interior parts do have sculpted brickwork it looks a bit strange.

    Very glad to see the Spirit of Grayskull was in the cards at some point. I hope we do get that Castle expansion pack at some point in the future.
    Yeah I'm sure it all just goes to Scott
    Last edited by cbomb23; February 12, 2013 at 04:33pm.

  20. #120
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Sorry, I am going to have to use an emoticon that I rarely use.

    What does "wanted the numbers" even mean? And how long SHOULD something take to sculpt when 16 people are working on it?
    16, very talented people? Hmmm.

    Sure it's smaller, sure I lost interest in it, but I never ordered it to begin with, but the 4H are good at what they do. 2 weeks of constant work on something....wow, let's see Overhaulin did entire cars in 7 days, that's an entire friggin car stripped to the bone and rebuilt, they worked round the clock making it roughly 2 weeks of work....And sorry, but Foose put a lot of love into those cars....so 2 weeks is a lot of time for someone who knows what they are doing. It took me like 2 months to do my Dragstor custom, but an hour here, and hour there, while doing other projects, for about a total of like 3 or 4 days, in all it doesn't take long to do something you know how to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by cbomb23 View Post
    I can't wait to see your sculpt? Because to me this thing looks amazing, I don't know where the "little love" was?
    As soon as I figure out the design and materials I'm doing my own facade which may evolve into a full castle (probably not thought), but I am doing it Filmation style. I have a lot of work for clients, but soon I'll be doing it. I've sculpted before, but it's been a while and I used to be decent at it, we'll see how rusty I am at it.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    As soon as I figure out the design and materials I'm doing my own facade which may evolve into a full castle (probably not thought), but I am doing it Filmation style. I have a lot of work for clients, but soon I'll be doing it. I've sculpted before, but it's been a while and I used to be decent at it, we'll see how rusty I am at it.
    Cool! Your Dragstor is awesome so I will definitely want to see this.

  22. #122
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFunny View Post
    The one thing that bothers me the most is that every answer is "if you don't like it, cancel". To me, that's the one thing anyone in customer relations should never say. Isn't there some kind of customer retention department, obviously not if they are just willing to let us all walk. Wow, that gets under my skin so bad and I think it's because they just don't care. Have they ever cared? I think so, but I believe they stopped at some point. Not sure when but when you have the designers allocate all of two weeks for the development of "the largest, most elaborate and detailed play set ever created", I strongly believe that the love is gone and the only thing that we can do which will never get done is to respond to there threat and have everyone cancel their pre-orders.
    In the video, TG said they currently have way over the minimum amount for the castles. That's probably where this attitude is coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by oICEMANo View Post
    How can they have a trap door that drops a fig into the doorway instead of the dungeon!! Thats the whole point of the trap door! I also hope they fix the floor by the throne room. WHy would they make a throne that hangs over the edge???
    I think maybe they changed it in Classics. Instead of the trap door sending you to the dungeon, the trap door sends you to the entrance and now the dungeon is a separate thing entirely now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    I just want to chime in on a couple of things that others have already pointed out in this thread:

    1. The dungeon pit
    a.) In the b-sheet it can very clearly be seen that this was planned as a sculpted 3D piece from the very beginning. I know forum rules and such but this time I really think that the evidence we have seems to suggest that originally plans were different and Scott now just says they weren't. The 4H didn't sculpt it "for fun", no, they sculpted it because it was planned as a 3D piece from the beginning and is shown as such in the b-sheet. That's why the sculpted thing was shown when CG was revealed.
    b.) Scott clearly said that nothing shown in the b-sheet would be cut.
    Yeah. I don't think the 4H wastes time and material sculpting and painting an ICONIC piece for the castle. That's like sculpting Modulok or 200X heads "for fun" and then taking him back. The Castle was probably overbudget and TG made a cut.

    3. "Too late for changes"
    If it was sculpted in 14 days and can be changed in one or two days. Nuff said.
    I understand that making the castle bigger makes it too expensive and I can live with that. But I'm absolutely positive they can still change the jawbridge by making the base a bit thinner at the spot where the jawbridge goes and thus make the jawbridge taller.
    Moreover Scott is contradicting himself when he says "this is not the final version, there will be changes on the inside of the Castle" and "it's too late for changes"
    The 4H have EIGHT MONTHS to make the entrance larger or to add the dungeon monsters OR to get rid of the Wind Raider hole, just like they had with King Hsss.

    4. "If you don't wat it, cancel it"
    Again that is not the kind of customer relationship that seems fitting for a line that was virtually on life support half a year ago....
    Sometimes, I think that Mattel is detached from the fanbase. While the 2013 sub almost not going through is still fresh upon the thoughts of fans, Mattel has already forgotten it.

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  23. #123
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    In the video, TG said they currently have way over the minimum amount for the castles. That's probably where this attitude is coming from.

    ...

    Sometimes, I think that Mattel is detached from the fanbase. While the 2013 sub almost not going through is still fresh upon the thoughts of fans, Mattel has already forgotten it.
    I also wonder how honest Mattel is being with some of this. I get the feeling that things may never have been in as much trouble as they were making it out to be.

    Grayskull suddenly has "way" over the minimum that some people canceling won't cause a problem? This is news! Similar to the 2013 sub, it was presented as "barely" going through at the 'zero hour'. I know that people still had through early January to preorder during that initial period, so a few more likely came in, but honestly how many could that be? I'm guessing most fans likely singed up before the cut off date to guarantee that the thing goes into production. And I seem to recall a few comments from ToyGuru since that time stating how the castle barely had enough sales to get made.

    While there likely actually was a decent drop off in sub sales from between 2012 and 2013, somehow I'm doubting that it was quote as bad as it was made out to be. I'm thinking it might have been something of a scare tactic to get more people to sign up. The fact that it happened in almost exactly the same manner with both the 2013 sub and Castle Grayskull is highly suspect. What are the odds that in BOTH cases, we just barely got over the line on the last day? If it happens again with the Filmation sub, it will be particularly eyebrow raising.
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  24. #124
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    This is news! Similar to the 2013 sub, it was presented as "barely" going through at the 'zero hour'.
    Are you sure? I remember both the sub and Grayskull pulling far past the minimum in the end.

    Also, for everyone - please remember to keep the debate about the product and people's opinions, not about your fellow posters. Thanks!

  25. #125
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Are you sure? I remember both the sub and Grayskull pulling far past the minimum in the end.
    If I recall correctly, both did go past the 100% mark, but no where near the level of past subs, and the general comments that I seem to recall getting from the official source was that everything was just barely enough to go into production. And in both cases, we were under the 100% going into the final day to subscribe/preorder, and then magically the next day, when they went to check the numbers, we made it.
    ____________________________________________

    Leela: "What's the secret of time travel doing on Fry's ass?"
    Fry: "It was bound to be somewhere!"

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