Clearing the air on Castle Grayskull

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

.....All that matters to me in my world is what I think and I'm holding out hope that I feel differently after seeing it at SDCC. But judging on past experience, I will be canceling.

I think a LOT of us are holding out hope that after SDCC Scott will reveal something that makes all our jaws hit the floor and we'll all keep our pre-orders. But like you, I just don't see it happening and will be cancelling all my orders (not even gonna keep 1 any more if nothing changes).

My biggest fear is that at SDCC there will be some other drama to contend with. They will reveal something (like an enlarged jaw bridge or molded interior, or the molded dungeon grate) but will have a disclaimer that "We might not be able to get this, guys, but I'm showing it because we're like 75% sure we will get it." and that will make some of us hold on to our pre-orders only to find out after it ships that what we were hoping to get got cut.

[bObA_fEtt_Ox]

I think a LOT of us are holding out hope that after SDCC Scott will reveal something that makes all our jaws hit the floor and we'll all keep our pre-orders. But like you, I just don't see it happening and will be cancelling all my orders (not even gonna keep 1 any more if nothing changes).

My biggest fear is that at SDCC there will be some other drama to contend with. They will reveal something (like an enlarged jaw bridge or molded interior, or the molded dungeon grate) but will have a disclaimer that "We might not be able to get this, guys, but I'm showing it because we're like 75% sure we will get it." and that will make some of us hold on to our pre-orders only to find out after it ships that what we were hoping to get got cut.

Yea with all happened before something like that wouldn't surprise me.........

[D-Nizzy]

I know it probably won't change anyone's mind, but I added the vintage playset into my comparison image. It helps me keep perspective about what we're talking about anyway.

[stprime]

i wouldn't be surprised if, unexpectedly, they up and change the deadline to cancel.

[Lay Ze-Man]

Put another way, if Mattel had shown the castle revealed at the toy fair when they first announced the pre-orders, I would NOT have ordered.

I'd go even further, and suggest that the pre-order itself wouldn't have been successful in the first place.

Let alone all the respectable rallying by the fans to drive sales above and beyond the quota . . .

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

I know it probably won't change anyone's mind, but I added the vintage playset into my comparison image. It helps me keep perspective about what we're talking about anyway.

Uhg...this comparison makes me want the castle even less. This truly demonstrates that this new castle really is not much larger than the previous two. It is the best looking of the castles, but again, I can't spend $250 per castle just for something that looks good.

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I'd go even further, and suggest that the pre-order itself wouldn't have been successful in the first place.

I agree 100%. If they showed this castle for the preorder, I do not think it would have been successful at all. I believe Mattel knew that too, which is why they did not show what they truly had planned. Again, the world's largest toy company that has done castles and barbie dream houses couldn't cost this thing out properly? Does. Not. Compute. I have to think they knew all along the real scope of what they were selling, and it was not what they showed us for the presale.

[Lay Ze-Man]

I agree 100%. If they showed this castle for the preorder, I do not think it would have been successful at all. I believe Mattel knew that too, which is why they did not show what they truly had planned. Again, the world's largest toy company that has done castles and barbie dream houses couldn't cost this thing out properly? Does. Not. Compute. I have to think they knew all along the real scope of what they were selling, and it was not what they showed us for the presale.

I agree it doesn't make sense that where MOTUC is concerned, they keep botching the numbers-crunching on a regular basis.

(How many times have we cringingly had to endure "We lost our shirt on _____"? And Wind Raiders, anyone?)

But I don't think we can go so far as to say for certain that they knew what the final size was going to be while Scott was showing off the "HUUUUUUGE" size of the foam mockup.

Regardless, IMO there is definitely some incompetency there, and that it continues to be unaddressed only tells me how small potatoes MotU is in Mattel's eyes, which is the biggest shame of them all.

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

I agree it doesn't make sense that where MOTUC is concerned, they keep botching the numbers-crunching on a regular basis.....
But I don't think we can go so far as to say for certain that they knew what the final size was going to be while Scott was showing off the "HUUUUUUGE" size of the foam mockup.

But they more than "botched" numbers on the castle. Scott's own words were that they were only going to charge $200, but made it $250 so they would not have to cut anything. On top of that, Scott's own words were that we blew sales for this thing out of the water. So, not only did we get charged $50 more than they thought they actually needed, but their production numbers were higher than needed to meet the costs they projected. All that combined means there really is no reason (as far as I'm concerned) that we should have size, interior molding or accessories cut. If anything, we should be getting MORE than what they showed but instead we are getting SIGNIFICANTLY less! It simply makes no sense to me!

[eCollector]

Yea, feeling a bit bumbed here too. I don't think I'll cancel, because I just REALLY want a CG for my MOTUC colection, even if it is undersized. It does still look very nice. I would have no problem with cutting basically all the accessories other than the Robot, Flag, turrant gun, throne, and computers... and the floor base to add some overall height for more head room inside. The Wind Raider base is just horrible. Like someone else said, if you do use it, the Wind Raider will make the castle look stupid small...not to mention it eats up all the space that would otherwise be used for displaying the actual FIGURES! Just dumb. One of Scott's worst calls yet.

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

I'm really bummed about it too, which is why I'm so mad about the whole thing. I REALLY wanted that castle he promised us. And I REALLY believed he would deliver. This castle fiasco just leaves me feeling completely duped by Mattel, and it's both angering and saddening to me.

[MegaGearMax]

I agree it doesn't make sense that where MOTUC is concerned, they keep botching the numbers-crunching on a regular basis.

(How many times have we cringingly had to endure "We lost our shirt on _____"? And Wind Raiders, anyone?)

But I don't think we can go so far as to say for certain that they knew what the final size was going to be while Scott was showing off the "HUUUUUUGE" size of the foam mockup.

Regardless, IMO there is definitely some incompetency there, and that it continues to be unaddressed only tells me how small potatoes MotU is in Mattel's eyes, which is the biggest shame of them all.

I agree. The MOTUC team is what, less than 10 people? If it were Monster High, Hot Wheels or Barbie, this wouldn't have been an issue. People would have checked, checked and re-checked all features, sizes and dimensions, so that there wouldn't be any problems at retail.

[Lay Ze-Man]

But they more than "botched" numbers on the castle.

Yeah, apparently everything is "unprecedented" about this CG, including the new low royal screw-up on calculations.

I mean, I get that factory costs, raw material costs, all that stuff fluctuates, but if that's your BUSINESS, if you work in the industry, and have Mattel "world class" resources at your disposal, I think an educated estimate for what a plastic toy should cost is the least, the absolute bare minimum, that should be expected.

I also don't buy the argument about production numbers, because this is Castle Grayskull, and I truly believe they could make DOUBLE the number of pre-orders and bring 'em to conventions a batch at a time and sell 'em out. I'm sure tons of people walking con floors don't know about the MOTUC line, and then others who would balk at shipping costs on the thing, and on and on.

[MegaGearMax]

I also don't buy the argument about production numbers, because this is Castle Grayskull, and I truly believe they could make DOUBLE the number of pre-orders and bring 'em to conventions a batch at a time and sell 'em out. I'm sure tons of people walking con floors don't know about the MOTUC line, and then others who would balk at shipping costs on the thing, and on and on.

Mattel doesn't want a warehouse full of Grayskulls. They've already grossly overestimated how many people wanted Wind Raiders and that was allegedly a vehicle that everyone wanted. Some fans don't have any use or space for playsets. Others might not realize the fact about the production costs (the less is made, the more expensive the item is) and might get scared by the near $300 pricepoint. And lastly, even if casual fans did buy Grayskull as their introduction to the line, you couldn't get any figures since Mattel doesn't want to re-produce old figures for new fans.

[Baena]

I know it probably won't change anyone's mind, but I added the vintage playset into my comparison image. It helps me keep perspective about what we're talking about anyway.

Love this.
FugLeeFaces seems to see it one way, I see it another. I think we see what we want to see.

I dont' know why I'm back in here still talking about size. But looking at this comparison, you start to get a sense of the size... As much as anyone can with a photo. You still have to recognize how it feels in 3D space. We've all been collecting for how long? Why do we still fall for photo trickery?
Not saying D-Nizzy is trying to fool anyone, it's just difficult to really get a true sense of scale from four photos taken from four different sources in four different locations. Looking at it, I kinda think the vintage caslte needs to be a little smaller maybe? I could be wrong, it's tricky basing it on the Classics figures sizes.

You have to recognize that 200X set is thin, square, and the sides only go back 10" Maybe? I don't know off hand, but I have it at home, my kids play with it regularly, and it's big enough for what it is.

Having seen the prototype in person, it's that much taller and wider for sure than the 200X castle, AND the whole other wall is that same front dimension going back.

Can't stress it enough, it's huge. It feels huge. And I hope Scott's plan to have one at SDCC that people can play with, interact with comes to be because IMO, it's a game changer for sure on the size of this thing.
That plus the hope of the jaw bridge being adjusted so figures fit easily through? Win! (Just my opinion mind you.)

Listened to The Geek Shall Inherit podcast recently and heard Daniel and Jason talking about Grayskull. Two guys that 1. Jason doesn't get into MotU and he admits that, 2. Daniel was also older for MotU back in the day but does love and collect the new line, they both bring up the fact again that I think some people like to overlook... We're getting Castle Freakin' Grayskull. This is unheard of! There isn't another 6" Scale line out there that is getting anything like this. One might try to argue the Turtles sewer playset, but the argument tends to fall down due to the heavy use of cardboard and lack of dimension on that playset.

I'm still as excited as day one upon hearing that this Playset is green lit.
Yes there have been disappointments along the way, but for me they've been very minor disappointments, certainly not enough to shadow everything else that is working so well for this Castle to beat all other castles.

And I thought I was done talking about it.

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

Love this.
....But looking at this comparison, you start to get a sense of the size... As much as anyone can with a photo.

Well, I guess me and you get a completely different sense of size. That photo leaves me even LESS impressed with the new castle. It makes it seem even smaller and less desirable to me.

[MegaGearMax]

Well, I guess me and you get a completely different sense of size. That photo leaves me even LESS impressed with the new castle. It makes it seem even smaller and less desirable to me.

Hmmm...

Is there someone who was present at NYTF 2013 and thought that the castle was too small?

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

Hmmm...

Is there someone who was present at NYTF 2013 and thought that the castle was too small?

Ok, let me rephrase....It's too small for $250, and too barren and devoid of features/accessories for $250.
I have no doubt that in person it looks much more impressive (heck, most of the figures I thought I would not like, such as Netossa, are way cooler when you have them in hand). However, it's just not $250 impressive. For $250 I could make a really kick-butt facade of my own to place my figures in front of. Heck, there are a number of people who could custom make me a really cool display piece for $250.

And let me add that at the fair this thing was made in resin, which tends to be thicker than final production plastic. For all we know the final thing will be as thin as the original castle, which will further take away from its feeling of size and heft.

[KUZEH]

Ok, let me rephrase....It's too small for $250, and too barren and devoid of features/accessories for $250.
I have no doubt that in person it looks much more impressive (heck, most of the figures I thought I would not like, such as Netossa, are way cooler when you have them in hand). However, it's just not $250 impressive. For $250 I could make a really kick-butt facade of my own to place my figures in front of. Heck, there are a number of people who could custom make me a really cool display piece for $250.

And let me add that at the fair this thing was made in resin, which tends to be thicker than final production plastic. For all we know the final thing will be as thin as the original castle, which will further take away from its feeling of size and heft.

So you'd rather have a $250.00 facade shell than a $250.00 playset?...

[orbles]

But they more than "botched" numbers on the castle. Scott's own words were that they were only going to charge $200, but made it $250 so they would not have to cut anything. On top of that, Scott's own words were that we blew sales for this thing out of the water. So, not only did we get charged $50 more than they thought they actually needed, but their production numbers were higher than needed to meet the costs they projected. All that combined means there really is no reason (as far as I'm concerned) that we should have size, interior molding or accessories cut. If anything, we should be getting MORE than what they showed but instead we are getting SIGNIFICANTLY less! It simply makes no sense to me!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Totally agree with this!

[BrettX209]

Like Fug said. I understand the lower production run means a higher per unit cost, blah blah blah, but that's for Matty to worry about, not me (as a customer). My only decision is this, I have $250. I look around and see what $250 can buy me. Do I then feel that the Castle Grayskull is worth it. When it had a molded interior, a decent set of accessories, etc., for me, the answer was "mmmmmm...okay". In other words, even with what was promised, I was riding the fence of the $250 justification. Take that stuff away, and make the Castle smaller, and now I'm tipped to the other side of the fence.

One thing with the overall size, and comparing it to older castles, is keep in mind the castle-to-figure ratio. Sure, the new CG is still bigger than the older versions, but the MOTUC figures are also bigger. My vintage He-Man easily clears the drawbridge of the vintage CG. My MOTUC He-Man needs a "warning: low clearance" sign on the new CG.

Given Matty/TG's track run, anything that says "there's a 75% chance we can do this", I will assume won't happen. When things that were allegedly certain are being taken away, why would I think something with a 75% chance would make it?

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I would. I'm not seven anymore, so I'm not going to be playing with the thing on a regular basis. When I get it, I would open it, check out all the features, take some pictures, and then place it on a shelf (if I can find room). In other words, even a "playset" is ultimately a display piece for me. So yea, I would rather spend $250 on a well done facade than $250 on a lackluster playset. Or to put it another way, I'd rather spend $120 on an awesome looking CG statue by Icon Heroes than $250 on a clamshell "playset" that isn't in very good scale anyways.

So you'd rather have a $250.00 facade shell than a $250.00 playset?...

[Baena]

Well, I guess me and you get a completely different sense of size. That photo leaves me even LESS impressed with the new castle. It makes it seem even smaller and less desirable to me.

Well you're sitting so high up there, on that Eternian porcelain throne... It's all about perspective.

Seriously though... I hope you get to see it in person before canceling your order, if you haven't already.
I recognize it doesn't measure up for a lot of people, I get that.
But my view on this is simple, don't underestimate the power of seeing something like this in person. Photos never do these things justice. You have to recognize that everyone that has seen it in person expresses basically the same opinion that it's plenty big.

Oh yeah Mega makes the same point...

Hmmm...
Is there someone who was present at NYTF 2013 and thought that the castle was too small?

I've yet to hear that. It's possible someone has? I'm not aware of it though.

Yes it was a prototype, with SLIGHTLY thicker walls. But I don't believe it will be enough to make it feel smaller.
The outside of the wall sets the size, not the thickness or area of the inside walls. If anything it will feel more OPEN on the inside with the walls thinning slightly.

[D-Nizzy]

I'm pretty happy with the play set, it seems to be pretty darn close to the mock up. I was trying to create an image that was a little closer than some of the ones I've seen (there are a couple out there that make it look like it's half the size ofthe mock up.) Basically I just made all of the He-Man figures the same size in all of the pictures and made Trap-jaw 3/4" smaller. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close. It would be great if they displayed a vintage play set next to the classics at SDCC. I think the vintage one looks like complete ass compared to the new one.

[Fug-Lee-Faces]

I would. I'm not seven anymore, so I'm not going to be playing with the thing on a regular basis. When I get it, I would open it, check out all the features, take some pictures, and then place it on a shelf (if I can find room). In other words, even a "playset" is ultimately a display piece for me. So yea, I would rather spend $250 on a well done facade than $250 on a lackluster playset. Or to put it another way, I'd rather spend $120 on an awesome looking CG statue by Icon Heroes than $250 on a clamshell "playset" that isn't in very good scale anyways.

My sentiments exactly!

Kuzeh, to your point, YES. For $250 I could get the "best freakin' facade evar!" and it would fit my needs exactly. It could be custom set into my wall, for example, or built into a shelf. $250 buys a LOT. This $250 playset is not giving me a lot of anything other than grief.

Oh...and even if I did play with it, what am I going to do? Have He-Man walk around cursing about bumping his head every time he walks through the front door? Oh, I know! I could have figures fall into the first floor of the castle, conveniently missing the dungeon, and unable to see who is being kept behind the bars. Of course, they'll have problems getting around the Wind Raider parked inside.

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Well you're sitting so high up there, on that Eternian porcelain throne... It's all about perspective.

Well, you grew up on a horse, so maybe I just have higher standards?

[Lay Ze-Man]

Mattel doesn't want a warehouse full of Grayskulls. They've already grossly overestimated how many people wanted Wind Raiders and that was allegedly a vehicle that everyone wanted. Some fans don't have any use or space for playsets. Others might not realize the fact about the production costs (the less is made, the more expensive the item is) and might get scared by the near $300 pricepoint. And lastly, even if casual fans did buy Grayskull as their introduction to the line, you couldn't get any figures since Mattel doesn't want to re-produce old figures for new fans.

Those all sound like MATTEL's problems, not ours.

[KUZEH]

I would. I'm not seven anymore, so I'm not going to be playing with the thing on a regular basis. When I get it, I would open it, check out all the features, take some pictures, and then place it on a shelf (if I can find room). In other words, even a "playset" is ultimately a display piece for me. So yea, I would rather spend $250 on a well done facade than $250 on a lackluster playset. Or to put it another way, I'd rather spend $120 on an awesome looking CG statue by Icon Heroes than $250 on a clamshell "playset" that isn't in very good scale anyways.

So, I take it you weren't buying CG even if the size was right?
Then it doesn't really affect you if it's 6' tall or 10" then?...

My sentiments exactly!

Kuzeh, to your point, YES. For $250 I could get the "best freakin' facade evar!" and it would fit my needs exactly. It could be custom set into my wall, for example, or built into a shelf. $250 buys a LOT. This $250 playset is not giving me a lot of anything other than grief.

Oh...and even if I did play with it, what am I going to do? Have He-Man walk around cursing about bumping his head every time he walks through the front door? Oh, I know! I could have figures fall into the first floor of the castle, conveniently missing the dungeon, and unable to see who is being kept behind the bars. Of course, they'll have problems getting around the Wind Raider parked inside.

Why would a toy give you grief? Just cancel the damn thing and move on...
Get one of the shells already available and be done with it...