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Thread: Clearing the air on Castle Grayskull

  1. #451
    Heroic Warrior BrettX209's Avatar
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    I plan to cancel my pre-order unless the CG magically gets it's accessories back, interior sculpting returns, etc. Doubt it will happen. I don't understand your comment about 6' or 10" tall. If you didn't notice in my post, one is $250 (plus tax and shipping, probably around $300) and the other is $115 (plus tax and shipping, probably under $150). If I pay $300 for a CG, I want my figures to be able to fit in it, and I want the stuff that (to me) made CG iconic. The robot, the laser turret, etc. If that's not the case for you, then that's fine. Spend your $300 and be happy with what you get. For me, it's not worth it any more. The $250 I'm now being shown is, in my opinion, a sight short of the $250 I was promised during the sales drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by KUZEH View Post
    So, I take it you weren't buying CG even if the size was right?
    Then it doesn't really affect you if it's 6' tall or 10" then?...

  2. #452
    Heroic Warrior KUZEH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fug-Lee-Faces View Post
    As I've said before, I more than likely will cancel it after the final is revealed at SDCC.
    As for the other shells already available....those are crappy and don't even have the benefit of looking nice, so why would I do that?
    To be honest, I don't really care if I don't get a castle of any type. I really like the figures. I like the figures a lot. I don't need a castle, and my money will be better spent elsewhere if this thing does not live up to Scott's original hype.
    So you think this one is crappy?...




    Quote Originally Posted by BrettX209 View Post
    I plan to cancel my pre-order unless the CG magically gets it's accessories back, interior sculpting returns, etc. Doubt it will happen. I don't understand your comment about 6' or 10" tall. If you didn't notice in my post, one is $250 (plus tax and shipping, probably around $300) and the other is $115 (plus tax and shipping, probably under $150). If I pay $300 for a CG, I want my figures to be able to fit in it, and I want the stuff that (to me) made CG iconic. The robot, the laser turret, etc. If that's not the case for you, then that's fine. Spend your $300 and be happy with what you get. For me, it's not worth it any more. The $250 I'm now being shown is, in my opinion, a sight short of the $250 I was promised during the sales drive.
    What I meant is that apparently it doesn't matter if CG was done at the same size as the foam mock-up, since it's a playset and you're not 7 anymore why pay $300.00 for a display piece...
    Because that's what it sounds like... why order if you don't care for a playset anyways?
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  3. #453
    Heroic Warrior Fug-Lee-Faces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KUZEH View Post
    So you think this one is crappy?...
    http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...074561_n-1.jpg
    I have no idea what that one is. I was assuming you meant either the vintage castle or the 200x castle, both of which are kind of crappy. That pic looks like a custom, and it looks really nice.
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  4. #454
    Heroic Warrior KUZEH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fug-Lee-Faces View Post
    I have no idea what that one is. I was assuming you meant either the vintage castle or the 200x castle, both of which are kind of crappy. That pic looks like a custom, and it looks really nice.
    I think the problem here is communication...
    You were the one that brought up the custom facade in the first place...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fug-Lee-Faces View Post
    Kuzeh, to your point, YES. For $250 I could get the "best freakin' facade evar!" and it would fit my needs exactly. It could be custom set into my wall, for example, or built into a shelf. $250 buys a LOT. This $250 playset is not giving me a lot of anything other than grief.
    BTW,
    the one I posted, is $200.00 painted... and it's only a shell...
    So, no, $250.00 doesn't buy you a lot if you want a super-duper-awesome Castle facade...
    Unless you make it yourself!
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  5. #455
    Heroic Warrior Fug-Lee-Faces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KUZEH View Post
    I think the problem here is communication...
    BTW,
    the one I posted, is $200.00 painted... and it's only a shell...
    So, no, $250.00 doesn't buy you a lot if you want a super-duper-awesome Castle facade...
    Unless you make it yourself!

    Um, yeah...communication is an issue with you. I still have no idea what your point is.

    That shell for $200 looks amazing, and to be honest, I'd rather spend $200 on that then the Matty playset that was revealed.

    But whatever dude. You spend your money on what you like, I'll spend mine on what I like. I'm sure you'll have fun pretending to bump He-Man's head on the jawbridge.
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  6. #456
    a Muppet of a man...
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    Guys, let's stop this back and forth, please. If you must continue, take it to PM, but please discuss respectfully. Thanks!

  7. #457
    Heroic Warrior Balthus Dire's Avatar
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    How big is the Icon Heroes castle, anyway? I was under the impression it was quite small.

  8. #458
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthus Dire View Post
    How big is the Icon Heroes castle, anyway? I was under the impression it was quite small.
    Yes, it is. I think it's about 11'' high and 9'' wide.
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  9. #459
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Yes, it is. I think it's about 11'' high and 9'' wide.
    Yup, not in scale at all with the figures, but that was never the intent with that one.
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  10. #460
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    I think the worst thing here is that, instead of re-invigorating interest in the line with Grayskull, Mattel managed to simply re-inforce all the ill will and negative attitudes about Matty and itself. Instead of taking a conservative, realistic approach, they oversold it and promised things they couldn't deliver. Had they concentrated on the minimum they were fairly sure could be done (and this comapany has made many playsets over the years, so they had some baselines to go on for cost), they might have had to push a bit more to meet the pre-order goal (something else they've had a lot of experience with), but they wouldn't be facing the backlash they have now.

    This was set to be the big thing, the crowning acheivement in the line, and it was an unprecedented undertaking. That they would even try to do this is worthy of praise; you have to grant them that. But they once again blew it through no one's fault but their own, turning what I thought for sure would be a boon for the line into another controversy, and another reason not to trust the word of Mattel.

    I'm likely not going to cancel my pre-order unless there's more cutting and skrimping at SDCC. If I'm looking at a facade, a dungeon door, a throne and nothing else, even I'll bail. If it comes out with what we've seen minus a minor piece or two, I'll probably stick with it. Thing is, I understand the feelings of those who are cancelling or considering it. Heck, even I, who have still bought every MOTUC piece they've made, even having to pay a bit more so I don't have to deal with DR, would be hard pressed to go for another Matty pre-order given what's happened here. Credibility makes a difference when your deciding how to spend your money, something Mattel seems to be completely unaware of these days...
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  11. #461
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    I think the worst thing here is that, instead of re-invigorating interest in the line with Grayskull, Mattel managed to simply re-inforce all the ill will and negative attitudes about Matty and itself. Instead of taking a conservative, realistic approach, they oversold it and promised things they couldn't deliver. Had they concentrated on the minimum they were fairly sure could be done (and this comapany has made many playsets over the years, so they had some baselines to go on for cost), they might have had to push a bit more to meet the pre-order goal (something else they've had a lot of experience with), but they wouldn't be facing the backlash they have now.

    This was set to be the big thing, the crowning acheivement in the line, and it was an unprecedented undertaking. That they would even try to do this is worthy of praise; you have to grant them that. But they once again blew it through no one's fault but their own, turning what I thought for sure would be a boon for the line into another controversy, and another reason not to trust the word of Mattel.
    You're right. Castle Grayskull, as well as the Hoverboard are big reminders of why people are weary of Mattel and hate Toyguru. Hopefully Mattel could still turn this around by moving the jawbridge and entrance into the base.

    If there is one thing this year that is a platform for a 2014 sub, it's that no figure has had any huge QC issues...YET. Fans are complaining about Castle Grayskull and unpopular already released characters rather than any particular figure's QC.

    I'm not too fused with the lost pieces, although the dungeon monster piece and the inside walls was the best aspect of the castle for me. However, Mattel could make improved floors (hopefully with a trap door that actually sends you to the dungeon) and additional parts for years to come.

    I'm not one of those fans who needs the entrance to be large enough for He-Man on Battle Cat to move through, but c'mon...He-Man is barely able to move through the doorway. Other characters might not make the clearance. How do you goof on the doorway being too small? Hell, how do you have the trap door miss the dungeon? Sometimes I wish that we could hear how the meetings on these things go. "You thought THAT was a good idea?"

    It's as if Mattel has forgotten how to make playsets. Maybe all of those older guys have moved on to the big retail brands or retired, leaving the newer guys who never made playsets before.

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  12. #462
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Yup, not in scale at all with the figures, but that was never the intent with that one.
    Which of the Castles are you talking about?

  13. #463
    Heroic Warrior No-Ah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    I think the worst thing here is that, instead of re-invigorating interest in the line with Grayskull, Mattel managed to simply re-inforce all the ill will and negative attitudes about Matty and itself. Instead of taking a conservative, realistic approach, they oversold it and promised things they couldn't deliver. Had they concentrated on the minimum they were fairly sure could be done (and this comapany has made many playsets over the years, so they had some baselines to go on for cost), they might have had to push a bit more to meet the pre-order goal (something else they've had a lot of experience with), but they wouldn't be facing the backlash they have now.

    This was set to be the big thing, the crowning acheivement in the line, and it was an unprecedented undertaking. That they would even try to do this is worthy of praise; you have to grant them that. But they once again blew it through no one's fault but their own, turning what I thought for sure would be a boon for the line into another controversy, and another reason not to trust the word of Mattel.

    I'm likely not going to cancel my pre-order unless there's more cutting and skrimping at SDCC. If I'm looking at a facade, a dungeon door, a throne and nothing else, even I'll bail. If it comes out with what we've seen minus a minor piece or two, I'll probably stick with it. Thing is, I understand the feelings of those who are cancelling or considering it. Heck, even I, who have still bought every MOTUC piece they've made, even having to pay a bit more so I don't have to deal with DR, would be hard pressed to go for another Matty pre-order given what's happened here. Credibility makes a difference when your deciding how to spend your money, something Mattel seems to be completely unaware of these days...
    I agree with what you're saying.

    I have two castles on pre-order. I ordered them separately, on different days, so I can easily cancel one without worrying about the other. As things stand, I will probably frown but keep both orders. No, this is not the castle which was promised. It's significantly smaller, and has some features which don't make sense.

    If they cut anything more than a minor accessory further, I'll probably drop one of my pre-orders. It would be awesome to have a double-Grayskull though....

  14. #464
    Heroic Master of Stuff Cammor's Avatar
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    Well, I decided to cancel today. That giant custom on Action figures . com made me really hate the Mattel attempt at this.

  15. #465
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammor View Post
    Well, I decided to cancel today. That giant custom on Action figures . com made me really hate the Mattel attempt at this.
    On which site?
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  16. #466
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    I think he means this one:

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...-you-could-buy

    And cue all of the irrelevant "I won't even have room for the one we're getting!" comments . . .

  17. #467
    Heroic Warrior wundarwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    I think he means this one:

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...-you-could-buy

    And cue all of the irrelevant "I won't even have room for the one we're getting!" comments . . .
    Good gravy that thing us HUGE!!!!

  18. #468
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammor View Post
    Well, I decided to cancel today. That giant custom on Action figures . com made me really hate the Mattel attempt at this.
    But let's be fair; a custom is, in many cases, going to be superior to anything that can be mass produced. That's like comparing one of Mattel's Mego-type DC figures to a hand made Charlee Flatt custom of the character. THe custom in question here is amazing, but it's also nothing that could ever be done for the price point we're talking about. THere was NO way anything even close to that was ever going to be possible unless we were open to a $1000 price tag.

    There are legitimate complaints here, but this comparison is apples and oranges, a hand made piece of art vs. a mass produced item. If that's the standard, Mattel and the Fab Four never had a fair chance.
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  19. #469
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    I think the worst thing here is that, instead of re-invigorating interest in the line with Grayskull, Mattel managed to simply re-inforce all the ill will and negative attitudes about Matty and itself.
    ... for a certain segment of customers.

    I think that's an important point. I know everyone likes to think they are in the majority when they think this is a huge problem. But I'm not really convinced of that from what I've seen (and I've seen too much.) I've seen people totally happy. I've seen some mild disappointment. Sometimes it's lingering, sometimes it's mixed with acceptance. And then I've seen people who think this is a huge issue that will stain Mattel's reputation to the far end of the other side of the spectrum. But the latter has been MUCH more limited from what I've seen. If someone were to go back to the Grayskull threads and tally UNIQUE users who are totally unhappy and think this is a terrible blunder by Mattel, it'd still be a little chunk of the online community. Then look at that in the broader sense of all the customers who are buying Grayskull, which should be in the thousands if not tens of thousands from what little sense we have of the numbers of MOTU figures. That becomes an even tinier voice. Various polls reflect this too.

    Sometimes a small group posting over and over and can color an issue and make a mountain out of something much smaller. Which isn't to diminish their view, of course.

    Now, I do think the point that this should have been a slam dunk is not a bad one. It would have been great if they'd knocked it out of the park for everyone. But so far, not just anecdotally by through online polls and the like, the people having SERIOUS issues with CG is not that great at this point. I mean, we won't know for sure unless someone wants to fund a scientific survey. But from what we do have in front of us, I honestly think this is true. Will that change after SDCC? We'll just have to see.

    I know instantly some people aren't going to like this post because it's not enough for them to have their opinion, they need to believe their opinion is in the majority. They shouldn't. It doesn't mean people who feel like CG was a big blunder are WRONG. It's their opinion, after all, and I can understand the points people raise. They just don't necessarily speak for the majority.
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  20. #470
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Agreed (with Scott Metzger) --- that giant custom would be impossible for less than $800 from Mattel if we go by their retail items, let alone their online collectors' club items!

    I just wish we were getting the scale we were sold. I can't even look at the toy fair pics without feeling like the whole opportunity to create incredible buzz, and to essentially clean the slate of past mishaps, has been lost / botched

    I can't agree that this wasn't as big a disappointment as it seems... I have seen FAR worse reaction on the Matty Facebook page, Actionfigureinsider.com, toynewsi.com, etc. than here. Believe it or not, the ORG has been the kindest place when it comes to the negative reaction.

    It is definitely realistic to say that the majority of responses have been those of disappointment rather than joy or satisfaction.

    I'm sorry, Jon, but that's just what the online responses have been... and they haven't been helped by Scott's suggestion that more may be cut.

    I will never understand the seeming lack of willingness to, perhaps, forego a little profit for the sake of the Mattycollector.com reputation and for customer satisfaction.

    I know that people are happy with the playset, and some are still overjoyed... but let's not pretend that the majority of responses hasn't been flavored by disappointment. Personally, I could not care less whether my opinion is the majority or not (sometimes my opinions are, sometimes they are not)... I am looking at this objectively... I know that because the positive responses stuck out to me, because they were far less common than the negative ones. But I do believe that the majority are happy that a castle is being made and that the sculpt is beautiful... but also that the majority is disappointed that the size was reduced by quite a bit, while the cost remained the same, even after we were told that the cost was settled to avoid reducing what we were shown on the B-Sheet. That is what makes this so disappointing.

    Again, I love the sculpt (aside from the obvious compromises that were likely made due to budget constraints)... and I will be keeping my pre-order because I am a completist. However, they did lose a second purchase... I was going to buy a second castle to keep MIB (and, as with all my MOTUC purchases, to keep as insurance in case the first breaks).
    I wonder how many purchases were lost because of the way the changes were handled by PR...

    And what we are really seeing is an accumulation of examples of customer dissatisfaction. Had this been the first time that Mattel said one thing and did another at the expense of the customer, I don't think people would care as much... but the past isn't forgotten (especially on the internet, where everything that is said can be found almost instantly)... and that's something Mattel seems unwilling to acknowledge from time to time.

    But it is what it is... we don't really have much say in this at all, do we?





    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    I think he means this one:

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...-you-could-buy

    And cue all of the irrelevant "I won't even have room for the one we're getting!" comments . . .
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  21. #471
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    I am still happy to be getting a CG, but I would be lying if I said the cut back in the size didnt bum me out a bit.

    Will I still enjoy it, yes.

    Do I want it the size on the pre-order, hells yeah.

    Now I do think that a lot of people will be more happy with it, once they see it in person.

    But it is a missed chance to really blow peoples socks off.

    And if I was really unhappy with it, I at least have the option to cancel my order. And I still think everyone should wait till after SDCC to make up their mind.
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  22. #472
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    I can't agree that this wasn't as big a disappointment as it seems... I have seen FAR worse reaction on the Matty Facebook page, Actionfigureinsider.com, toynewsi.com, etc. than here. Believe it or not, the ORG has been the kindest place when it comes to the negative reaction.
    Oh, I've seen the same sites, believe me. But you have to remember, even if you take all of the people with extreme negative reactions (and I'm talking extreme as in it's a huge blunder versus mild disappointment) they are still relatively small in comparison to the general buying public. You have to remember that internet forums are niche groups. Now, I think they have more impact on a line like MOTUC that is smaller and collector-focused, no doubt. But, working in Marketing myself I can tell you that you have to be VERY careful about putting too much emphasis on these anecdotal postings when gauging what the actual reaction is to something. Especially the more negative opinions, because people are more likely to post repeatedly with a negative opinion versus a positive one. And when you have a project like this that has a lot to critique or discuss, then the negative opinions are going to pile up.

    Of course, this is almost just splitting hairs in a sense. The fact is there's a good contingent of people dissatisfied with Grayskull. That, alone, is a problem. Perception is reality. If people perceive that a lot of people have issues with Grayskull, then that's not good for MOTUC overall. So Scott M's point is a good one in that sense. This, perception-wise, has turned into a minus when it should have been a plus. A HUGE plus. But it isn't. And that's sad and it's a problem.

    At the same time, I really do think the level of dissatisfaction can get blown out of proportion. I wouldn't even say the .Org is "softer" on Grayskull than other forums. As someone who has to read every thread in this sub forum every day, I can tell you that really isn't true. LOL. I think some of the most outspoken and critical people on this issue are right here, which makes sense because they are also the most passionate. As we expand the circle to other non-He-man-fan sites, there are a few things to remember: People post on multiple sites. Even if their ID doesn't make it obvious. Also, even though you theoretically get a wider variety of people chiming in on other sites about Grayskull and it may SEEM like this might represent the general MOTU buying public... this is mitigated by the fact that you have a lot of people commenting who weren't going to buy Castle Grayskull to begin with and are just armchair commentators. Not to say their opinion doesn't matter (that perception thing) but Mattel would certainly care about them a great deal less in the grand scheme of things. You get a lot of "I wouldn't pay that much for that thing!" from people who don't even understand how much we are paying for a single figure because their only frame of reference is the TMNT sewer playset at TRU, which has no bearing whatsoever on Grayskull in our little collector line.

    I think the real test is going to be at SDCC. I think it's going to be whether people start canceling en masse. There's all this talk for the next few months... but that's going to be when we can really start to judge the success of this experiment. And then, beyond that, when people actually start bringing them into their homes... and then after some time for the buzz of first getting it fades... then we'll have an even better sense of it all.

    Until then, we get to just speculate and suppose and assume!
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  23. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    You're right. Castle Grayskull, as well as the Hoverboard are big reminders of why people are weary of Mattel and hate Toyguru.
    Really? Maybe I'm just too much the noob, but even so it's hard to believe. I've been a long time collector of Star Wars figures and Hasbro has really turned a cold shoulder to collectors in recent years. There's next to little communication with fans, and when there is communication it's for them to essentially say 'sorry, but we're not listening." (We've been screaming to deaf ears for playsets and the Sail Barge to name a few). From what I've seen Toyguru appears to stay pretty well connected with the community and is reasonably up front (as well as a front man can be, I suppose) about the decision making process for the line.

    I'm not taking issue with your opinion here in any way though to be clear; I guess I'm just shocked to hear something like this because I'd love it if Hasbro had an equivalent liaison with Star Wars Collectors, if only to get some answers.

  24. #474
    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    I think the majority of people at the moment are satisfied with the Castle. It is good enough. I do not see anywhere near a majority saying that they are blown away by the Castle, or think it is super perfect. Now granted that it will be very hard to do that until it is in hand.

    Even taking that into consideration I have not seen one post that says: "They made is smaller!!! That's GREAT!" Or: "They might cut accessories!!! Fantastic!!!!!". I do see a lot of "It doesn't bother me that much, or I can live with it, or well that sucks but I'm keeping my pre order".

    I am certainly in the "I can live with it" category. I expect to like my castle. Not LOVE it, but like it. Grade wise it will probably be a solid "B". Which isn't terrible, but I had hoped for a "A". The size and scale of the foam mock up was an "A" for me, and while I do keep in mind that I may be blown away when I have it in hand (subject to change!) my expectations are to be satisfied. Not blown away.

    And that's not the end of the world. I do wish that this would be the crown jewel of my MOTUC collection and join my personal hall of fame of such prestiogios items such as the Neca Balrog, the BMF Millennium Falcon, and the MP Optimus Prime form several years ago. IMO those toys are flawless, and I can't think of s single aspect that I don't love about them
    It is spelled "Crita", not "Critta". Misspell her name and Crita will knock the "T" out of you!

    Also...get her into the line!

    Awesome "Yes Movement" avatar by The All American!

  25. #475
    Heroic Warrior orbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    I think the worst thing here is that, instead of re-invigorating interest in the line with Grayskull, Mattel managed to simply re-inforce all the ill will and negative attitudes about Matty and itself. Instead of taking a conservative, realistic approach, they oversold it and promised things they couldn't deliver. Had they concentrated on the minimum they were fairly sure could be done (and this comapany has made many playsets over the years, so they had some baselines to go on for cost), they might have had to push a bit more to meet the pre-order goal (something else they've had a lot of experience with), but they wouldn't be facing the backlash they have now.

    This was set to be the big thing, the crowning acheivement in the line, and it was an unprecedented undertaking. That they would even try to do this is worthy of praise; you have to grant them that. But they once again blew it through no one's fault but their own, turning what I thought for sure would be a boon for the line into another controversy, and another reason not to trust the word of Mattel.

    I'm likely not going to cancel my pre-order unless there's more cutting and skrimping at SDCC. If I'm looking at a facade, a dungeon door, a throne and nothing else, even I'll bail. If it comes out with what we've seen minus a minor piece or two, I'll probably stick with it. Thing is, I understand the feelings of those who are cancelling or considering it. Heck, even I, who have still bought every MOTUC piece they've made, even having to pay a bit more so I don't have to deal with DR, would be hard pressed to go for another Matty pre-order given what's happened here. Credibility makes a difference when your deciding how to spend your money, something Mattel seems to be completely unaware of these days...
    ^^^^^ Exactly this. They took a celebration of MOTUC and turned it against themselves. Sad, really.

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