Clearing the air on Castle Grayskull

[Lay Ze-Man]

..."Estimates" and "All items subject to change" hardly constitute "promises", Good Sir!

I don't remember any "fine print" at the end of each of Toyguru's many personal sales pitches.

And you can believe that if he had said "No promises on the size! It's always possible He-Man will barely fit through the door, you know, given inevitabilities in the toy industry..." we wouldn't have met the pre-order quota.

[MintCondition]

No, it's not. Other companies are doing presales all the time, and what they promise, they deliver. If Hot Toys overpromised the moon and stars on a $250 item and then underdelivered a subpar product and justified it with Mattel's kind of lame excuses, the customer backlash would surely be unprecedented.

Then please cite literally just one example of a company pre-selling a large item like this, based on literally nothing but some blueprints.

"Slightly smaller" is a very curious way to say about 25% smaller.

More like 11%.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't remember any "fine print" at the end of each of Toyguru's many personal sales pitches.

And you can believe that if he had said "No promises on the size! It's always possible He-Man will barely fit through the door, you know, given inevitabilities in the toy industry..." we wouldn't have met the pre-order quota.

Maybe not with what he said vocally, but I think that was more of his enthusiasm for MOTU getting the better of him. All the contracts, and everything on Mattycollector and everything posted and said by Mattel made it very clear that nothing was final.

[NorthCoast]

Thanks for the update, Scott! I always appreciate how much you do for the fanbase, MOTUC is the greatest and keeps getting better every year! Don't let some of these guys around here get to you, I think you should be proud of what you and your team has accomplished.

Now bring on Castle Grayskull!

[Count Marzo]

Thank you, Toyguru!

Don't know why everyone's *****ing about it. The vintage Castle Grayskull didn't have much headroom for the vintage figures either:


Also, who is going to actually "play" with their toys and make He-Man keep answering the door? Is Skeletor going to knock, leave a flaming bag of Panthor **** and run away? Is that his next evil plan? Go buy a Barbie Dreamhouse if you want to play house and answer the door for Ken.

I'm leaving the door closed most of the time anyways.

[Grayskull's Heir]

Hi everyone,

althugh I do appreciate the tone of Scott's post and the fact that there seems to be a bit more humility than usual, I also have to say thatt, as far as the content is concerned, I do not see anything new at all in his post.

So, could anyone please clarify to me what exactly is new in his post and why it is so overwhelmingly positively received?

He said exactly the same stuff as before:
- "This is your Castle Grayskull folks." Buy it or cancel, it's your decision.
- "I wish it was bigger but it isn't." Not a word about his prior promises and videos and not a reason given how they could so totally screw up their cost estimate. No explanation how a spec sheet datedDecember 2012 can be so fundamentally different from what was revealed in February 2013.
- "We'll cut more stuff." Again not a word about his promise that we'll get all the stuff from the b-sheet , possibly more but not less.
- "We'll look into the jawbridge and throne issues". While I do appreciate it, this is no news. He already said so in the Feb 26th Q&A. The slots for the sword and key where mentioned weeks ago.
- "I'm very passionate"
- "You're very passionate"
- "The 4H are very passionate"
- "Ruben is very passionate"
- "MOTUC is a 6 inch line"

So please, anyone, tell me what the news is?

Again, I appreciate what Scott is trying to do here but, seriously, what exactly is the "update" or "new info" that everyone seems to be thanking him for?

[Lay Ze-Man]

Maybe not with what he said vocally, but I think that was more of his enthusiasm for MOTU getting the better of him. All the contracts, and everything on Mattycollector and everything posted and said by Mattel made it very clear that nothing was final.

"Contracts" and "fine print" did not secure the pre-orders.

What secured the pre-orders were the visuals and the verbal descriptions given by Toyguru in multiple venues.

The biggest problem with this entire thread is that Scott seems to want to treat this as "business like usual" . . . give the needy fans some lip service, a phoned-in apology and a pat on the back, and all is well.

Thing is, this isn't "business as usual" this time. This isn't one of the usual screw-ups with shipping, or defective figures, that at most cause someone a minor annoyance on a $20 product that many people can replace without much harm to Mattel or the customer.

Grayskull is $250. TWO-HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS. This is a LOT of money (for ANYBODY) to spend on a toy item. This is not a "collectible" item, because this is Mattel we're talking about. This is a toy. It won't be premium plastic with premium paint ops or premium packaging. It'll be what we've seen thus far. Which is fine, and serviceable, as long as the final product works as originally advertised.

So what was once some insignificant grumbling over Webstor's zipline NOT, in fact working "just like you remember" becomes disappointed fans who are at the end of their rope with all things Mattel taking their $250 and walking.

So what, right? A few fans, vocal minority, who cares? Well, Mattel should care in this instance, because even if it's four fans. JUST four. That's $1,000 . . . gone. Twenty canceled orders becomes FIVE GRAND, and . . . well, we all can do the math if SDCC still shows us He-Man bumping his head. This may be a "niche, über-boutique" line, but money is still money to Mattel, which is apparently what they exist to solely care about, and thousands of dollars is a pretty steep price to pay for (thus far inexplicably) reducing the size of the Castle.

[chuc98]

Is Skeletor going to knock, leave a flaming bag of Panthor **** and run away? Is that his next evil plan?

That literally made me LOL…thank you! hahahaha

[JonWes]

So, could anyone please clarify to me what exactly is new in his post and why it is so overwhelmingly positively received?

It's just that it's very plainly stated and all in one place. Some of us just appreciate him explaining his viewpoint and, unlike (presumably, based on their posts) a small minority of people who are posting over and over about it (which is fine that they express their viewpoint, but let's not confuse volume of posts with weight or representation of the minority!), we can appreciate it and perhaps even empathize a little bit. Even if it's not always what we'd prefer to hear.

Sorry, but although there are plenty of us who don't love this or that or wish this or that would change... the vast majority of people still like or love Castle Grayskull. Right now a whopping total of FOUR people have cancelled Grayskull out of thousands and thousands of orders.

I can say this VERY safely as someone who has to read (literally) every post in ever thread on this sub forum, but the number of people with substantial issues with the Castle (to the point of cancellation, certainly) are very, very tiny in the context of even the posters on the .Org, let alone the wider fan base for He-man.

[seth-man]

Scott, im one of your toughest critics but even this post has made me question canceling my CG order this morning. Im a guy who grew up on motu like all the rest of us. I would love to have everything from this line if i could afford it...well prolly not Spector. ..But with a 2300 dollar mortgage and a 700 dollar preschool and a 300 dollar car payment. I just cant make these commitments...Thats why i can never join Club Eternia. Im what these boards call a cherry picker..And im happy to have picked at least about 30 tasty cherries so far. When CG presale came i ordered 1st day. Because i felt now thats a commitment i can make to show support for this line. However something happened when i saw the reveal...i just didn't feel wowed...i thought hmm what do i tell the wife when i spend 300 bucks on that im not enamored with. I didn't even bother voting on the box art. So assuming nothing would change i had to cancel to relieve the weight. Hopefully i wont regret that to much.

I wish you could offer us financial burdened fans something in 2014. I think the presale for cg was a step in the right direction. There are many figures i missed because of dos stock or just plain broke. Now early access buys snub us cherry pickers. I know you have to spice things up for loyal subscribers but its driving us cherry pickers to quit the line.

Despite all, i still wish there were some affordable way i could help support the line. I wish there were a Club Eternia Lite, similar to the mini lines like Filmation and 30th. I think it would be great to do line just dedicated to Reissues, to help Fans catch up on figures that were sold out in 2 minutes and most demanded reissues. No quarterlys, No 70 dollar 3 packs. Fans could vote on who would be in the line. You don't even need to do an exclusive. The molds are already made so you have full knowledge of cost and no surprises to subscribers.

[Count Marzo]

That literally made me LOL…thank you! hahahaha

lol, I try.

[Barnlord]

Thanks for the update, TG! I am so very happy to have a Castle Grayskull in the Classics line! I can't wait to see the final playset at SDCC!

[Lay Ze-Man]

I do not see anything new at all in his post.

So, could anyone please clarify to me what exactly is new in his post and why it is so overwhelmingly positively received?

THANK YOU! Color me equally confused . . .

[rdenny82]

So how much say did we have in the vintage line? Pretty sure it was close to none. Some "fans" sense of entitlement with this line is ridiculous. This castle looks great. The entire line is only around because of scott. It seems like MOTUC is not something mattel needs to be doing...it turns just enough profit to let it continue...so if people start cancelling left and right toy guru will get axed along with the rest of the line...then we get nothing. why do people try to ruin everything when its not up to their personal standards.

[The All American]

Also, who is going to actually "play" with their toys and make He-Man keep answering the door? Is Skeletor going to knock, leave a flaming bag of Panthor **** and run away? Is that his next evil plan? Go buy a Barbie Dreamhouse if you want to play house and answer the door for Ken.

I'm leaving the door closed most of the time anyways.

Looks like Panthor had a hand in this!

[Lay Ze-Man]

The entire line is only around because of scott.

[Soulgem]

Yes, thank you, you've cleared up my mind. I'm now 99.999% sure I'll cancel most or all of my 3 preorders.


First off, MotUC is a 7" line (measure your MotUC figures, will you?), which is about 50% larger in terms of mass and volume than true 6" lines such as DCUC and 200X MotU. The prototype castle fits the 200X 6" figures very well, but MotUC figures are notably larger than that and look crammed and oversized when placed in a 6"-scale playset.

OTOH, you ask "who does that?", and I ask: who does what? What you've done is to bait a product based on a B sheet specification and, after pre-selling it, you've then switched it for something about 25% volumetrically smaller with cheapened features and cut accessories. Not many companies do that, of course, because bait-and-switch is an unethical business practice.


The castle was initially going to be $200, but then you said you needed to increase the price 25% so as to be able to offer what was on the B sheets and maybe more but no less. Now it turns out with a $250 price you can only "afford" a castle that is 25% smaller than the one presented in the B sheet, with cheaped-out features (such as negative inner walls and 50¢ stickers in place of sculpted details) and accessories cut (and probably more will be cut). If I made such a gross cost-estimation miscalculation at work, I'd be fired.


No, it's not. Other companies are doing presales all the time, and what they promise, they deliver. If Hot Toys overpromised the moon and stars on a $250 item and then underdelivered a subpar product and justified it with Mattel's kind of lame excuses, the customer backlash would surely be unprecedented.


Of course not, Mattel is simply trying to squeeze the most dollars out of customers without delivering their money's worth.


You have already flatly stated no major changes will be made at all. So what we've already seen is an almost final version, and thus we already know what we may see in San Diego; although, probably, the final version will be even worse.


"Slightly smaller" is a very curious way to say about 25% smaller.


What was shown at NYTF we're being told is basically almost nearly the final version, and that's quite far from an amazing piece that is pleasing the majority of fans.


That's just the tip of the iceberg of what the castle needs fixing. There are head clearance issues all around the castle, not just at the jawbridge. The top left floor and the dungeon door and window are two other flagrant examples.

Nobody outside Mattel wants that silly and utterly useless WR plug. Scrap it already and lower the whole ground floor to be flush with the base, which will increase the inner clearance by some 2 inches and solve most of the headroom issues all at once.


So, you had about 3 months to make the prototype, but waited till the last moment to rush a half-baked version in the last 15 days. And then, what was presented at NYTF is now basically already set in stone—not really a prototype, but an almost final version—before any customer feedback. Way to go, Mattel.


I'd rather you stopped inflating vain expectations and, for once, concentrated on actually delivering.

Harsh, but true. Sorry, but you oversold this one, TG, and failed to deliver. Just like with the Hoverboard.

[kolobosrexx]

...Bless Your Good Sense, Sir!!!

[RocketPunch]

Also, who is going to actually "play" with their toys and make He-Man keep answering the door?

Well I am, for one. It is a playset after all.

Go buy a Barbie Dreamhouse if you want to play house and answer the door for Ken.

I'm leaving the door closed most of the time anyway.

Call me a big kid if you like, but i'm going to have as much fun with this thing as possible. Life's too short man. Try playing with your toys again once in a while. You never know, you might actually enjoy it.

[King Kahn]

On a side note: Whether you agree with what Scott has to say, it's beyond amazing that a large toy company would get directly involved with its fans. I have never seen anything like it. So to me, that's part of what makes this line so great.

good post

Thank you, Toyguru!

Don't know why everyone's *****ing about it. The vintage Castle Grayskull didn't have much headroom for the vintage figures either:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ynIMo-c_AT...kull_Front.jpg

Also, who is going to actually "play" with their toys and make He-Man keep answering the door? Is Skeletor going to knock, leave a flaming bag of Panthor **** and run away? Is that his next evil plan? Go buy a Barbie Dreamhouse if you want to play house and answer the door for Ken.

I'm leaving the door closed most of the time anyways.

lol well said and stated.

[horseman1981]

THANK YOU! Color me equally confused . . .

Well a lot was new to me,the fact that he is trying to increase the door height is a big new one to me.

The positives,the fact he is talking about 2014 and 2015 happening and a hint perhaps at more than one exclusive for sdcc.

So I love the castle,but I am a matty brain washed idiot.....correct? Could the castle be better,yes. So could you. Nothing is perfect,if you hate it so much cancel your orders,someone else will buy them day of.

Oh,and yeah if not for Scott,no way would this line be here now. It would have crashed years ago.

This is a fan site for motu,right?

So a smaller castle or no castle at all.......um.....yeah....I go with the smaller castle.

[Crusader]

So how much say did we have in the vintage line? Pretty sure it was close to none.

The vintage line wasn't financed by a (relatively) small adult customer base. The entire project only exists because of the fans willingness to pledge 250$ to a B-sheet and a mock-up made of foam. I'd say that's a pretty good reason to listen to the fans' feedback.

[Robzy]

The entire line is only around because of scott.

Hi everyone,

althugh I do appreciate the tone of Scott's post and the fact that there seems to be a bit more humility than usual, I also have to say thatt, as far as the content is concerned, I do not see anything new at all in his post.

So, could anyone please clarify to me what exactly is new in his post and why it is so overwhelmingly positively received?

He said exactly the same stuff as before:
- "This is your Castle Grayskull folks." Buy it or cancel, it's your decision.
- "I wish it was bigger but it isn't." Not a word about his prior promises and videos and not a reason given how they could so totally screw up their cost estimate. No explanation how a spec sheet datedDecember 2012 can be so fundamentally different from what was revealed in February 2013.
- "We'll cut more stuff." Again not a word about his promise that we'll get all the stuff from the b-sheet , possibly more but not less.
- "We'll look into the jawbridge and throne issues". While I do appreciate it, this is no news. He already said so in the Feb 26th Q&A. The slots for the sword and key where mentioned weeks ago.
- "I'm very passionate"
- "You're very passionate"
- "The 4H are very passionate"
- "Ruben is very passionate"
- "MOTUC is a 6 inch line"

So please, anyone, tell me what the news is?

Again, I appreciate what Scott is trying to do here but, seriously, what exactly is the "update" or "new info" that everyone seems to be thanking him for?

Spot on! Scott has written and said all this stuff already several times. There's nothing new here to me either... just old information/opinions being rehashed.

Well I am, for one. It is a playset after all.

Call me a big kid if you like, but i'm going to have as much fun with this thing as possible. Life's too short man. Try playing with your toys again once in a while. You never know, you might actually enjoy it.

Correct!!... Hardly surprising that someone might actually want to "play" with their "playset". Nice post!

[uaxuctum]

More like 11%.

No, it's a decrease of around 25% in size. A decrease of around 10% would be if the castle were one-dimensional.

The 2-3 inch decrease in an originally 25" tall castle (a decrease of around 10% in height) translates into a decrease of around 25% in overall size (volume and enclosed space), because the castle is a three-dimensional object and the decrease has to affect all three dimensions at the same shrinking rate to keep the castle's proportions (otherwise the castle would appear to have been punched from above with a giant hammer while keeping the same width and depth as the original B sheet).

So the decrease percentage gets cubed, and cubic growth is significantly more drastic than linear growth, which means relatively small differences measured along one dimension get hugely amplified when the difference affects the whole object proportionally along its 3 dimensions.

I've posted the detailed math in the relevant thread, but since it seems some people still don't get it, I'll repeat a short summary:

(~10% less height)³ = (0.9)³ = 0.73 = ~25% less overall size

[tenno]

I doubt Scott will read this exact post, but I sure do appreciate what he does for MOTU and how he responds to fans.
We meet a lot of people in life that we respect and like that let us down some times, though.
I for one and still willing to trust and wait at least for SDCC before I post or worry about this again. That's four months of Castle Grayskull worries. I bet He-Man wishes he had that much time to forget about Grayskull.

[Jor-El]

Of all the things being scrapped, why is the Wind Raider "floor" not top of the list?? It is an absolute POINTLESS accessory given the Wind Raider already comes with a stand.