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Thread: Clearing the air on Castle Grayskull

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior Jor-El's Avatar
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    Of all the things being scrapped, why is the Wind Raider "floor" not top of the list?? It is an absolute POINTLESS accessory given the Wind Raider already comes with a stand.

  2. #102
    Heroic Warrior Evilestwarrior's Avatar
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    Appreciate these types of posts from Toyguru. For all the bad that is said about him I do get the sense that he really cares about Classics and tried to look at the whole line from a collectors point of view.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jor-El View Post
    Of all the things being scrapped, why is the Wind Raider "floor" not top of the list?? It is an absolute POINTLESS accessory given the Wind Raider already comes with a stand.
    I may be mistaken but isn't the wind raider thing just a hole in the floor for the WR stand to plug into? If so I wouldn't even count it as an accessory, again I'm not sure. If it hasn't been clarified by TG maybe he can address it because it has a lot of fans upset

  3. #103
    Ray of Sunshine Lookie's Avatar
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    I do appreciate him trying to stop the flow of orders out of the preorder, but I am still likely to cancel. Just not enough oomph for the dollars. I would rather use my 200X castle with my figures or even no castle at all. Cannot wait for the Icon Heroes Castle!
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  4. #104
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jor-El View Post
    Of all the things being scrapped, why is the Wind Raider "floor" not top of the list?? It is an absolute POINTLESS accessory given the Wind Raider already comes with a stand.
    Just a wild guess, but I'd bet it's because it was TG's (or maybe Ruben's) own idea "to increase the sales of the WR". So they'll stubbornly stick to it until the finish line come hell or high water, and won't budge an inch about it no matter how silly, unrequested, majorly disliked and counterproductive it turned out to be.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by uaxuctum View Post
    Just a wild guess, but I'd bet it's because it was TG's (or maybe Ruben's) own idea "to increase the sales of the WR". So they'll stubbornly stick to it until the finish line come hell or high water, and won't budge an inch about it no matter how silly, unrequested, majorly disliked and counterproductive it turned out to be.
    Exactly right. Things like this discredit most of what he just posted. If PR really went through his posts, I'm sure they'd tell him he's doing more harm than good, no matter what he says.

  6. #106
    Heroic Warrior orbles's Avatar
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    I am keeping my 2 Castles, at over $600 shipped, but the plain fact is that all the hype that TG said before the sale and all the promises he made, are not present in the "final" product. And people are upset about this duplicity. Read some of the posts on here. A smaller Castle is better than no Castle? Can you quantify that? So a 15" Castle is better than none? I dont think so.

  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior Uncle Jake's Avatar
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    Thanks, Scott for addressing us in such a manner.

    As far as I am concerned, the Throne Change and the Drawbridge change are must haves. These are major design flaws that should have been accounted for early on. And if we lose any accessories, I will not be happy about that. But if these fixes do not occur or we lose items, I will still happily purchase the Castle.

    Clearly there is a very angry minority on this forum. Any doubt as to why there is not peace in the Middle East can be easily erased with a visit to this forum to see people so upset over a toy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    And exactly how is Mattel involving the fans, besides taking their money and doing a meaningless Q&A every month?
    I have never seen a toy company more involved ever with the fan base than Mattel has been. We have actively influenced decisions and directions of the line through this forum and through dialogue at conventions.

    To see some people flip out over this "contractual breakage" reminds me of fan based project disasters from other forums. People are acting like Grayskull is a garage kit project and some online friend has just ripped them off for $250! Are you kidding me? This is Mattel. We are lucky to have even been given this opportunity. One which happened because of Toyguru's actions in the first place. You complainers should be thanking him for even giving you a toy to complain about in the first place.

    If you don't want Grayskull, then cancel your order. As far as I am concerned, the only reason someone should get as angry as some of you are behaving is if Mattel refused to refund your money. That would be wrong and worthy of some of this anger. But you guys can get your money back, which has not been charged yet anyway. So why the venom??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    Why is that the bottom line? Why wasn't a better cost estimate calculated from the beginning of the project? Whose job is it to do cost-estimates? Is someone being held accountable for such a serious error?

    Until you go into more detail on this, you will continue to have upset customers who will demand a better explanation, who feel like they were sold on one thing, and then presented with another.
    Really, man? It's business. Overseas manufacturing. Costs increase. Design and Safety issues appear. Simple human error. Things change. Which is why they mentioned this on the order form! Mattel has never done this before, so some mistakes will be made. It amazes me that some people can not accept this and move on.

    At the end of the day. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

    But lay off the guy.

    I for one am not 100% happy with Grayskull, but have I ever been with anything in life? Very rarely.

  8. #108
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbles View Post
    I am keeping my 2 Castles, at over $600 shipped, but the plain fact is that all the hype that TG said before the sale and all the promises he made, are not present in the "final" product. And people are upset about this duplicity. Read some of the posts on here. A smaller Castle is better than no Castle? Can you quantify that? So a 15" Castle is better than none? I dont think so.
    But we aren't getting a 15'' Castle. I'm sure people mean THIS smaller Castle we are getting is better than no Castle.

  9. #109
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketPunch View Post
    Call me a big kid if you like, but i'm going to have as much fun with this thing as possible. Life's too short man. Try playing with your toys again once in a while. You never know, you might actually enjoy it.
    We don't play with them anymore. We 'pose' them
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  10. #110
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    "SDCC exclusives".

    Plural not singular? It would be great if there was more than one MOTUC SDCC exclusive.

    "I have worked with the team to create a new roadmap that if we get a 2014 and 2015 line should wrap up the vintage lines and most of the major fan requested animated figs."

    I had the impression from previous comments that the A-Listers were ALL going to be included in 2014, depending upon the number of "slots" available. I guess that still correlates with the above comment since not all of the "vintage" figures are necessarily A-Listers. It would be great to believe that ALL PoP vintage figures could be released by the end of 2015, although that is a LOT of PoP: Glimmer, Angella, Mermista, Kowl, Loo-Kee, Perfuma, Spinnerella, Double Trouble, Flutterina, Sweet-Bee and Entrapta. Not to mention the Filmation characters like Madame Razz, Broom, Sea Hawk, Scorpia, etc.

  11. #111
    Marketing Manager at Mattel Toyguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uaxuctum View Post
    Just a wild guess, but I'd bet it's because it was TG's (or maybe Ruben's) own idea "to increase the sales of the WR". So they'll stubbornly stick to it until the finish line come hell or high water, and won't budge an inch about it no matter how silly, unrequested, majorly disliked and counterproductive it turned out to be.
    Actually this was something the Horsemen added to the Castle. Credit where it is due!

  12. #112
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    I guess they added it for fun.

  13. #113
    OVERLORD OF EVIL mdhollywood247's Avatar
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    Some posters around here would have still found a problem with Grayskull even if it wasn't a tad smaller. It seems that it's the same people over and over that complain. It's like u feel guilty for collecting this line and u find reasons to talk yourself s out of it.
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  14. #114
    Stridor in MOTUC! RockinHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhollywood247 View Post
    Some posters around here would have still found a problem with Grayskull even if it wasn't a tad smaller. It seems that it's the same people over and over that complain. It's like u feel guilty for collecting this line and u find reasons to talk yourself s out of it.
    Yet they hang around anyway . . .
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  15. #115
    Heroic Warrior Cottonwood's Avatar
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    Toyguru,
    If you are still checking/replying to this thread, will the weapons rack be
    Reissued for those of us who did not get it
    the first time?
    Fantastical!

  16. #116
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update, Scooter; you're the best.

    I'm excited as ever for the line and look forward to Grayskull.

    I do hope those changes you mentioned get made and that we get all the goodies we saw at NYTF. If not, I hope we see it all (and that swell dungeon piece!) in expansion Paks further on.
    Not to sound like a creepy cheerleader for Uki, but it's nice to know there is at least one person on this forum who is extremely positive & friendly all the time. I don't think I could be that nice even if you paid me. If we ever give out awards for "forum member of the month", Uki gets my vote. -Mr. Shokoti

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  17. #117
    Heroic Warrior Keldor5579's Avatar
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    I'd love to know if any of these "fans" that are canceling their pre-orders are ordering the Icon Heroes Grayskull? I'm fairly certain that he-man would bump his head on that door too, but i bet you don't care and still buy it. Its less then half the size, doesn't have playability, and cost well over $100.00....

    Also, would like to thank Scott for this post that he didn't have to make. Like others have said, we are spoiled and a small amount of us don't appreciate the attention we actually get as fans and that we have a say in the products that get made.

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior maa5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    In response to this, I want to start off by saying that I don't envy the position that you are in, Scott. It can often be a thankless job, and the heat is always pointed at you whenever people get upset over something (sometimes rightfully so, and sometimes not).

    I personally am looking forward to the castle. I have no intention to cancel my preorder, and it would take something REALLY extreme with the final product reveal at SDCC to make me change my mind on that. Overall it looks great IMO, and I am looking forward to it. I'm sure you have an uphill battle with the higher ups at Mattel to keep this line going and to get something like the castle preorder approved in the first place.

    I ask that you please keep what I've said here in mind when I say the following (and the following is intended as me expressing this point in a calm, collected polite, but also 'to the point' manner)...



    I am somewhat disappointed in the size reduction of the Castle. Not to the extent that some other people are, but for me it comes down as "that kinda stinks."

    But I also can understand why others are much more upset over this than I am. And from a combined standpoint of empathy for those who are more angry AND of just sheer principle, I feel the need to say the following...

    While there may be some fine print on the preorder page for the Castle about things being "subject to change," many people were sold on this castle based on things that were said and were promised in videos that you made, Q&As, etc. Things like you stating that the Castle will be no smaller than the foam model, that at least all of the items from the B-sheet being included with the possibility of more, and the like. Even if the end product is only an inch or two shorter and only a couple of items are removed, technically the exact opposite of that is now happening.

    Keep in mind that I don't mean this as a personal attack against you, Scott, but as I said in another thread, I do kind of feel like to some extent the fans should have the right to take Mattel to task on this legally, regardless of any 'rear-end covering' fine print. Meaning that while it's nice that Mattel is extending fans the option to cancel if they are disappointed, at the end of the day that's still kind of lame solution in that it doesn't give fan what they wanted/were promised.

    Fans entered into a contract with Mattel when they preordered. But that contract is a two way street. Yes, there is fine print stating that things are subject to change, but none the less BIG promises were made in these videos, etc, and many people signed up based on those promises. In other words, they signed up under what can reasonably be considered false pretenses, the fine print be damned. And while it's nice that they are being offered the option to cancel, they should also have the leverage to (from a legal standpoint) demand that they don't cancel and instead be delivered what they were promised. In other words, fans should have as much of a say as to weather or not Mattel gets to not fullfill their end of the deal as Mattel has in saying whether or not the fans have to fullfill their end (in this case giving us the option to cancel).

    Like I said, I am stating this from a standpoint of principle and empathy for those who are really upset. Overall I anticipate that I will likely be happy with the end product. But still, while I am not too upset over the loss of a little bit of height and a couple of (hopefully minor) accessories being cut, at the same time, based on what has been said, we shouldn't be losing any of that at all. And I'm sure some people are more torn over this than I am. On the one hand, they might be FAR more disappointed over all of this than I am, but at the same time are hesitant to cancel since this will be the one and only Castle Grayskull we get in this line (this is kind of how I actually ended up feeling about the BTTF Hoverboard, but only after I got it in hand and saw it in person).

    The whole thing is a catch-22. We either get no castle or a reduced castle. And even if the fans collectively had the power and ability to take Mattel to court over this and force the Castle to be made as promised at a loss to Mattel, while we might end up getting a more ideal castle out of it, surely the higher ups would instantly kill the line and not let it go forward beyond making and releasing any items that are in any current, in-progress subs.


    While I anticipate being happy with the Castle, as I said earlier, I did end up being disappointed in many respects with the Back to the Future Hoverboard (I am a HUGE fan of those movies), and I wasn't one of those people who were nitpicking over things like the angle of the lines, etc. The electronic sounds just aren't very good, and the thing just kind of looks 'cheap' overall, mainly due to most of the looks of it being a big sticker. I was mainly hoping for a nice display piece (and I personally wish less money had gone into the electronics and instead into making it looks nice). I'm keeping it and it does have it's positive aspects, but I do feel rather disappointed.


    I just think that going forward, if any more preorders of this nature are attempted for any Matty Collector lines, there should be more of an effort made to under promise and over deliver, rather than the opposite as has been the case thus far. I know you get excited, Scott, and I think that enthusiasm is part of what motivates you to get on camera and essentially say (and I'm paraphrasing here) "This is how big this will be! This is all that will be included! Isn't that cool?!", only to have the reality of what can actually be done for the cost come crashing down on that. I'm sure to some degree, when you first find out this kind of info, it probably takes you by disappointing surprise just as it does many fans when they find out. I don't think that you are intentionally trying to mislead fans, but I also hope that you can understand why some people react the way that they do when they get angry over this stuff. If these over-promises weren't made in the first place, then people wouldn't even have these expectations.

    Again, I mean all of this in a polite, friendly manner. This is meant to hopefully be constructive, and I'm not trying to tear you down here.


    And regarding the following...



    I hope that this happens and if it does, that the door, itself will be redone/re-sculpted/etc. so that the door still closes with no gaps.
    I agree with this post.

    I most likely will cancel my CG preorder as well. I have no problem with the affordability of the Castle or even the entire rest of the MOTUC line--I do very well for a nostalgia minded collector. What I do appreciate though is a company that respects it's customer. All I've ever got from this experience is horrendous customer service from it's outsourced partner, QC issues from their manufacturers, and a relatively condescending attitude from it's PR officer. I understand that he's having to answer to upper management as well as us fans. However, it comes across as belittling appeasement trying to calm us down for whatever Mattel overpromised or messed up. Frosta's apology gift being unsold overstock/returned items comes to mind. I do understand that this is Masters, something we all love, but this collector is getting tired of it. I don't need the Castle that badly, when I know it could be made better and probably will be in the future. But the absolute insult for me is to bait and switch us like they have, then threaten us to keep it or miss out, because c'mon guys...it's MASTERS and such a small blip on the radar. Just like the threats to sub, manipulating the amount of product sold, making Fang Man a sub only, etc, etc, etc.

    The Hoverboard was a piece-o-.... that was also overpromised (it won't actually hover, but it will glide???) I understand that sometimes things don't turn out the way they are planned. But I appreciate honesty, and if there is one thing I've seen, is that I'm always feeling like something dishonest has happened and I'm hearing an empty excuse to make things better.

  19. #119
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    What a great update. While I am sure some are disappointed I'm happy with the castle so far. I would prefer they just make another sorceress that can sit.
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  20. #120
    Evil Horde Poison Master! Mr_Yuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maa5 View Post
    I agree with this post.

    I most likely will cancel my CG preorder as well. I have no problem with the affordability of the Castle or even the entire rest of the MOTUC line--I do very well for a nostalgia minded collector. What I do appreciate though is a company that respects it's customer. All I've ever got from this experience is horrendous customer service from it's outsourced partner, QC issues from their manufacturers, and a relatively condescending attitude from it's PR officer. I understand that he's having to answer to upper management as well as us fans. However, it comes across as belittling appeasement trying to calm us down for whatever Mattel overpromised or messed up. Frosta's apology gift being unsold overstock/returned items comes to mind. I do understand that this is Masters, something we all love, but this collector is getting tired of it. I don't need the Castle that badly, when I know it could be made better and probably will be in the future. But the absolute insult for me is to bait and switch us like they have, then threaten us to keep it or miss out, because c'mon guys...it's MASTERS and such a small blip on the radar. Just like the threats to sub, manipulating the amount of product sold, making Fang Man a sub only, etc, etc, etc.

    The Hoverboard was a piece-o-.... that was also overpromised (it won't actually hover, but it will glide???) I understand that sometimes things don't turn out the way they are planned. But I appreciate honesty, and if there is one thing I've seen, is that I'm always feeling like something dishonest has happened and I'm hearing an empty excuse to make things better.
    This post managed to articulate exactly how I feel at this point.
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  21. #121
    Heroic Warrior rankinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Marzo View Post
    Thank you, Toyguru!

    Don't know why everyone's *****ing about it. The vintage Castle Grayskull didn't have much headroom for the vintage figures either:
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ynIMo-c_AT...kull_Front.jpg

    Also, who is going to actually "play" with their toys and make He-Man keep answering the door? Is Skeletor going to knock, leave a flaming bag of Panthor **** and run away? Is that his next evil plan? Go buy a Barbie Dreamhouse if you want to play house and answer the door for Ken.

    I'm leaving the door closed most of the time anyways.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by uaxuctum View Post
    Yes, thank you, you've cleared up my mind. I'm now 99.999% sure I'll cancel most or all of my 3 preorders.


    First off, MotUC is a 7" line (measure your MotUC figures, will you?), which is about 50% larger in terms of mass and volume than true 6" lines such as DCUC and 200X MotU. The prototype castle fits the 200X 6" figures very well, but MotUC figures are notably larger than that and look crammed and oversized when placed in a 6"-scale playset.

    OTOH, you ask "who does that?", and I ask: who does what? What you've done is to bait a product based on a B sheet specification and, after pre-selling it, you've then switched it for something about 25% volumetrically smaller with cheapened features and cut accessories. Not many companies do that, of course, because bait-and-switch is an unethical business practice.


    The castle was initially going to be $200, but then you said you needed to increase the price 25% so as to be able to offer what was on the B sheets and maybe more but no less. Now it turns out with a $250 price you can only "afford" a castle that is 25% smaller than the one presented in the B sheet, with cheaped-out features (such as negative inner walls and 50¢ stickers in place of sculpted details) and accessories cut (and probably more will be cut). If I made such a gross cost-estimation miscalculation at work, I'd be fired.


    No, it's not. Other companies are doing presales all the time, and what they promise, they deliver. If Hot Toys overpromised the moon and stars on a $250 item and then underdelivered a subpar product and justified it with Mattel's kind of lame excuses, the customer backlash would surely be unprecedented.


    Of course not, Mattel is simply trying to squeeze the most dollars out of customers without delivering their money's worth.


    You have already flatly stated no major changes will be made at all. So what we've already seen is an almost final version, and thus we already know what we may see in San Diego; although, probably, the final version will be even worse.


    "Slightly smaller" is a very curious way to say about 25% smaller.


    What was shown at NYTF we're being told is basically almost nearly the final version, and that's quite far from an amazing piece that is pleasing the majority of fans.


    That's just the tip of the iceberg of what the castle needs fixing. There are head clearance issues all around the castle, not just at the jawbridge. The top left floor and the dungeon door and window are two other flagrant examples.

    Nobody outside Mattel wants that silly and utterly useless WR plug. Scrap it already and lower the whole ground floor to be flush with the base, which will increase the inner clearance by some 2 inches and solve most of the headroom issues all at once.


    So, you had about 3 months to make the prototype, but waited till the last moment to rush a half-baked version in the last 15 days. And then, what was presented at NYTF is now basically already set in stone—not really a prototype, but an almost final version—before any customer feedback. Way to go, Mattel.


    I'd rather you stopped inflating vain expectations and, for once, concentrated on actually delivering.
    Best post on this thread.

    I can appreciate Scott taking the time to do this, but he certainly hasn't resolved the issue, he's just made more excuses.

  23. #123
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maa5 View Post
    I agree with this post.

    I most likely will cancel my CG preorder as well.
    I think you misunderstood my post, whicg you were replying to.

    I said that I have no intention of canceling. Meaning that I am keeping my order in place and plan to get the castle. And it would take something extreme ar SDCC (like REALLY SEVERE accessory cuts or a further size reduction) to make me change my mind.
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; March 2, 2013 at 12:02am.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    Hi everyone,

    althugh I do appreciate the tone of Scott's post and the fact that there seems to be a bit more humility than usual, I also have to say thatt, as far as the content is concerned, I do not see anything new at all in his post.

    So, could anyone please clarify to me what exactly is new in his post and why it is so overwhelmingly positively received?

    He said exactly the same stuff as before:
    - "This is your Castle Grayskull folks." Buy it or cancel, it's your decision.
    - "I wish it was bigger but it isn't." Not a word about his prior promises and videos and not a reason given how they could so totally screw up their cost estimate. No explanation how a spec sheet datedDecember 2012 can be so fundamentally different from what was revealed in February 2013.
    - "We'll cut more stuff." Again not a word about his promise that we'll get all the stuff from the b-sheet , possibly more but not less.
    - "We'll look into the jawbridge and throne issues". While I do appreciate it, this is no news. He already said so in the Feb 26th Q&A. The slots for the sword and key where mentioned weeks ago.
    - "I'm very passionate"
    - "You're very passionate"
    - "The 4H are very passionate"
    - "Ruben is very passionate"
    - "MOTUC is a 6 inch line"

    So please, anyone, tell me what the news is?

    Again, I appreciate what Scott is trying to do here but, seriously, what exactly is the "update" or "new info" that everyone seems to be thanking him for?
    And another great post.

  25. #125
    Heroic Warrior Jor-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Actually this was something the Horsemen added to the Castle. Credit where it is due!
    I don't get the point of it. It adds nothing but an extra bit of plastic to the cost. If we want to park a Wind Raider inside the Castle, it has a stand already. Why bother with it at all?

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