Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 202

Thread: The Iron Cross VS The 'H': Which Is Preferred?

  1. #1
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chicago (The Actual City)
    Posts
    963

    The Iron Cross VS The 'H': Which Is Preferred?

    I personally liked, among other things, the fact that 200X changed the image of emblem of He-Man, from the Iron Cross, to the 'H'.

    But I noticed that alot of people are glad that the Cross is back, so my question is, why?

    Is it just for the nostalgia, kinda like the vintage power sword?

    Not to sound controversial, but the Iron Cross doesn't necessarily have the best history, and having a muscle bound, blonde haired hero with that as his emblem might leave much to be desired... Sure we got by with it back in the 80's, but I'm wondering if the image would jibe with people's new millenial sensibilities.

    I personally thought it was a wonderful idea that they updated the emblem with the 'H' or the asterisk.

    Plus, I never got why the Cross was such a big deal, when the original Battle Armor He-man (which made me think about it in the first place) has an 'H' on it, and not the cross, and nobody seems to care about that.

    I'm also glad that they put the 'H'/asterisk on King Grayskull, rather than the Cross.

    Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? Discussion is welcomed!!

  2. #2
    Heroric Drummer Brian Ozone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    QUEENS
    Posts
    9,388
    The Iron Cross! Thats He-man.

  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    238
    I've always liked the iron cross more than the 'H'. It is the design I grew up with and thankfully it is the one they chose for the MOTUC He-Man. I wouldn't worry too much about people associating the iron cross with anything bad unless Mattel made a "Hit-lor" figure to accompany He-Man on our shelves!

  4. #4
    Heroic Warrior Pink Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    350
    The Iron Cross is better IMO for the following reasons:

    1. The H is too literal and takes it somewhat into childlike territory for that reason. Superman gets to wear an S on his chest, but that's it, nobody else.

    2. The H makes the strange assumption that Eternia somehow uses the Roman alphabet. Also see Superman above.

    3. The H is distracting from a simple design perspective, because it subconsciously diverts the viewers attention to "reading mode," when they should be paying attention to the big naked guy throwing boulders. The cross, however, knows its place as a design element.
    "Listen, strange women dressed like birds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!"

  5. #5
    Heroric Drummer Brian Ozone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    QUEENS
    Posts
    9,388
    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Ranger View Post
    they should be paying attention to the big naked guy throwing boulders. .
    too funny!

  6. #6
    Heroic Designer SUPERHEMANMIKE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,697
    I definitely prefer the cross. That's classic He-Man all the way. I also really like the Battle Armor "H" and wouldn't mind if that became He-Man's standard symbol. I don't really care for the 200x "H" asterisk.
    SUPERHEMANMIKE

    "It tasted good..." - Gwildor

  7. #7
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Ninth Level of Hell plotting my slow and painful revenge on the brightly sunlit world...
    Posts
    9,278
    I prefer the iron cross because I like imagery and symbolism as it is translates easier across cultures and languages. It makes it more universal. People don't have to know English to get the symbol on Spidrman's chest or on Batman's. It could be more difficult to ascertain their respective animal motifs if they went around with a giant S (not Superman) or a big B. To me, symbols are a more powerful message carrier than letters. That's why I prefer the iron cross and am angry that the Evil Warriors don't have a symbol that represents them. Hordak has the bat logo but Skeletor has nothing. One of the reasons I believe that contributed to the Evil Warriors losing all the time. Nothing unites a group so much as a powerful image.
    "Wheresoever on earth he dwells, man is prey to two weaknesses: the need to pray and the need to love."-Marquis de Sade

    "It is not by reasoning or by our understanding that we have received our religion; it is by external authority and command."-Michel De Montaigne

    Heretical Vintage Purist and Non-Fan Extraordinaire!

  8. #8
    Savage LOLcat of Eternia
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    48
    I think nostalgia has a lot to do with it. It was on the original toy, and very visible in the Filmation version.

    That said, the "cross pattee" has been around long before the German army started using it. It was a stylized cross for heraldic designs back in the Crusades. The traditional Iron Cross is usually black with a white border, and He-man's is just plain red, so there's less of a connection there for me personally.

    I think having a blond haired guy is just coincidental, but it's fair to note that he fights for all that is good in Eternia, not as their overlord. I think it falls into the same category of Captain America being an Aryan ideal and using their own notion of perfection to fight against them.

    I do like the battle-armor "H", though. That was a really nice design! I suppose it would have looked sloppy if it was the cross with a couple of diagonal slashes through it. Come to think of it, Skeletor's bone cross would have looked funny that way, too.

    Just my opinions, but discussing these little thing is what makes a board fun.

  9. #9
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    4,132
    But isn't He-Man's cross the same type of Cross as one of the many crosses used by the Knights Templar?
    One of the reasons I believe that contributed to the Evil Warriors losing all the time. Nothing unites a group so much as a powerful image.
    Skeletor's a walking Jolly Roger... Just look at him... He has the skull and the crossbones...
    Last edited by DO4M; January 29, 2010 at 12:02pm.
    FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Now I need a Crita!! Crita is to Mara what Evil Lyn is to Teela. If we ARE getting Mara, then we NEED Crita.

  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chicago (The Actual City)
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Ranger View Post
    The Iron Cross is better IMO for the following reasons:

    1. The H is too literal and takes it somewhat into childlike territory for that reason. Superman gets to wear an S on his chest, but that's it, nobody else.
    Yeah, but the "S" for Superman has been explained recently as a symbol with a specific meaning. "S" has a different meaning in Kryptonian, than it does in Earth English, the same way that I'm sure that Eternian is a different language than Earth English as well. So the "H" as a symbol could have a different meaning than for what we know it to mean.

    Why should Superman be the only icon that this would work for?

    2. The H makes the strange assumption that Eternia somehow uses the Roman alphabet. Also see Superman above.
    See my response above.

    3. The H is distracting from a simple design perspective, because it subconsciously diverts the viewers attention to "reading mode," when they should be paying attention to the big naked guy throwing boulders. The cross, however, knows its place as a design element.
    *IF* that's the case (Superman is obviously the exception; we don't think of "reading" anything when we see the guy in the blue suit with the red cape, when he's punching DarkSeid out), that's only for people who use the Roman script. What about fans of both He-Man & Superman, who's language is Arabic, or Chinese?

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior RocketPunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    6,206
    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERHEMANMIKE View Post
    I definitely prefer the cross. That's classic He-Man all the way. I also really like the Battle Armor "H" and wouldn't mind if that became He-Man's standard symbol. I don't really care for the 200x "H" asterisk.
    I agree with you. I don't see why Mattel felt the need to create a new symbol when they could have replaced the iron cross with the very cool Battle Armour one.

    The only version of the asterisk I thought looked good was the MVCreations comics one. They turned the "X with a line through it" into a neat looking circular symbol.
    Last edited by RocketPunch; January 29, 2010 at 12:09pm.

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chicago (The Actual City)
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by DO4M View Post
    But isn't He-Man's cross the same type of Cross as one of the many crosses used by the Knights Templar?
    Yeah, but that's not necessarily the best example either.

  13. #13
    Heroic Warrior kk2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scheveningen, The Netherlans
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by SAMURAI36 View Post
    Not to sound controversial, but the Iron Cross doesn't necessarily have the best history, and having a muscle bound, blonde haired hero with that as his emblem might leave much to be desired... Sure we got by with it back in the 80's, but I'm wondering if the image would jibe with people's new millenial sensibilities.
    Never thought of it that way. I think that's a horrible thought. So you think people could see He-Man as an oversized German '40-'45 slaughterer
    I definitely hope not.
    I like the cross better too, that has nothing to do with certain abuse of this symbol by some weirdo. The crusader's cross is similar to He-Man's cross as well. Again nothing to be proud of. So crosses have often been missused.
    Crosses are still symbol of good these days. So I don't see why He-Man shouldn't have his.

  14. #14
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    10,495
    I like the cross because it just works. It's simple, yet iconic. It works well with He-Man's overall look. There's little to complain about it.


    That being said, I do like the H on the Battle Armor. I have no problem with that. I don't necessarily want it to replace the cross on his standard harness, but I do like that particular H.


    The 200X "stylized H" didn't even look like an H most of the time. That's why many people refer to it as an asterick. On occasion it did kind of look like an H the way it was drawn on the show, but even that was a bit of a stretch. I really don't know what they were thinking with that whole thing. They were trying to come up with something as iconic as the Superman 'S' logo, but they came up with something very bland, uninteresting, and something that looked almost nothing like the letter that it was supposed to be.

    If they had done something more along the lines of the Battle Armor H incorportated into the standard harness when 200X started up, that may have worked better. But as it is, the 200X "stylized H", in my opinion, was a pretty big failure in accomplishing it's intended purpose.
    ____________________________________________

    Leela: "What's the secret of time travel doing on Fry's ass?"
    Fry: "It was bound to be somewhere!"

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior kagamigod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,388
    The Iron Cross fits more with the whole sword & socerery theme of MOTU. The "H" asterisk was never my cup o' tea. I like that as KG's emblem because it makes him different from He-Man.

  16. #16
    Heroic Warrior Mern-Ra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    6,431
    Iron Cross all the way!
    Check out my short film! www.AwardWinningTheMovie.com

    My feedback: http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...=125066&page=2

    Awesome Traders List: http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=135253

    The Cradle Will Rock As I'm Drivin' Down Highway 40 In My Big Ol' Pick Up Truck.

  17. #17
    Evil Lord of Felines catlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Cuxhaven, Germany
    Posts
    844
    I definately prefer the Iron Cross.
    That stylized H from 200X just looked stupid and none of my friends who looked at it even realized it was supposed to be one until I told them.

    As far as the history behind the Iron Cross, that's reading far too much into it in my opinion.
    The symbol is ancient and has been used by warriors ever since the Dark Ages if not even before that. And He-Man is definately just that, a warrior. Maybe it's even a leftover from the Vikor design.
    I know our military used the Iron Cross during WWII, but they did so before that and still do today. As far as I know it's still in use in other armed forces as well.
    Now I'm not a soldier but those of my friends who are have told me that the Iron Cross is generally seen as a symbol of Valor and thus it makes perfect sense to me to use it for He-Man.
    AVATAR BY BILBOYNNC

    "Never will forgive you, never leave you
    You know that if you live like, you will die like
    How can I erase your pain and aid you
    When Death wants to kiss you
    and you want to kiss him back..."

    Sonata Arctica - "Sing in Silence"

  18. #18
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Neuthonian Suburbs
    Posts
    2,568
    Yeah, but the "S" for Superman has been explained recently as a symbol with a specific meaning. "S" has a different meaning in Kryptonian, than it does in Earth English, the same way that I'm sure that Eternian is a different language than Earth English as well. So the "H" as a symbol could have a different meaning than for what we know it to mean.

    Why should Superman be the only icon that this would work for?


    but you are making an arguement that defeats your OWN argument:

    why can't the cross mean something else in Eternian Culture??


    see what i mean?


    I LOVE the battle armor logo, i would much rather get a shirt (or maybe tattoo) of that thing. but the original, is the original period.

    if you take it OUT of context it really sounds lame:

    "we are changing a logo of our hero because some people think its religious."

    do those people like the line?

    "no, they just think its sort of "religious" "

    I hope that eveyone in here, and REAL big fans are all in agreement that WE know it has NOTHING to do with religion. (as far as the mythos goes)



    if people prefer the look of the H because it is just that, an H so be it, but to NOT like the cross cause you think it is religious, i think thats weak. but thats why the world has opinions, and these threads are fun.


    i would love the movie armor to be battle armor/logo the whole time though, just in a realistic sense. thats again, just me....

  19. #19
    Counter Produtive Mr.Treeface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Witness protection
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    Nothing unites a group so much as a powerful image.
    Nope. Read my signature.
    Oh and cross BTW, it's much cooler than the H.
    Love, friendship, or respect, do not unite people as much as a common hatred for something.
    I never think of the future. It comes soon enough.

  20. #20
    Master of the Arashikage J_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,206
    Well where as with Superman the "S" has been written into story now as a symbol, it was originally just simply what you'd think at first glance. Originally it was just an S because he was Superman. As th years went by they did change that. They evenmade a big deal about it in the Death of Superman story. Most of all with Steel out and out saying "it's an honor to wear the symbol".

    With that, they could write it into the story for He-Man to have a symbol. They're now saying that there's been several to carry the "He-Man" title, so really there probably would be a symbol. It could technically have the "H" included and work. I'm fine with the cross, but they could even go as far as saying that the "He-Man" of that time picks his own symbol if they want to cover themselves with story.
    ----------------------------------
    Joe

    My G.I.Joe page
    Facebook
    EBAY
    D&J Toys - Display Bases and more!

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,741
    I prefer the corss, looks less cheesy than having a 'H'. It would be like me walking around with an 'R' on my shirt all the time or on a gold chain like a chav lol.
    Some of my like for the cross is nostalgia too.

  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chicago (The Actual City)
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by kk2 View Post
    Never thought of it that way. I think that's a horrible thought. So you think people could see He-Man as an oversized German '40-'45 slaughterer
    I definitely hope not.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna imply that MOTU fans have a secret fetish for Nazism, or something like that.... Far from it.

    I think that symbology has always been subversive, in how, and IF, it impacts people on a subconscious level.

    I remember when a fellow fan that I used to work with (who is also a fellow .Orger as well, whassup Big Country!! ), were talking when 200X first hit the scene, and we were talking about the "H" vs the Cross, and he was the one that mentioned how they changed the symbol, to move away from Iron Cross.... Ironically, he's a blonde white guy, and I'm black, and I didn't even see it, go figure.

    I like the cross better too, that has nothing to do with certain abuse of this symbol by some weirdo. The crusader's cross is similar to He-Man's cross as well. Again nothing to be proud of. So crosses have often been missused.
    Crosses are still symbol of good these days. So I don't see why He-Man shouldn't have his.
    Actually, crosses may have significant value for people on a personal level, but historically speaking, crosses have had more negative connotations than positive, on a cultural level. Constantine was one of the first people say
    IN HOC SIGNO VINCES.

    The Knights Templar adopted the symbol for the same usage several centuries after that, and so did Hitler several centuries still. The irony is, they each had a very similar vision in mind, with the use of the Iron Cross.

    However, it should be noted that we aren't necessarily talking about Crosses in general, but rather the Iron Cross in particular. In fact, as I just did a precursory check into history, I can't really find a truly positive use for the Iron Cross...... Except, of course, for He-Man.

  23. #23
    Heroic Designer SUPERHEMANMIKE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,697
    Quote Originally Posted by TechTrek View Post
    I LOVE the battle armor logo, i would much rather get a shirt (or maybe tattoo) of that thing.
    Battle Armor:

    http://www.printfection.com/he-man_f...irt/_p_2672313

    Help support He-Man.org!

    The He-Man.org Fundraiser Store:
    http://www.printfection.com/he-man_fundraiser
    SUPERHEMANMIKE

    "It tasted good..." - Gwildor

  24. #24
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Neuthonian Suburbs
    Posts
    2,568
    if anyone could take the iron cross back, it would be he-man.

  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chicago (The Actual City)
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by TechTrek View Post
    Yeah, but the "S" for Superman has been explained recently as a symbol with a specific meaning. "S" has a different meaning in Kryptonian, than it does in Earth English, the same way that I'm sure that Eternian is a different language than Earth English as well. So the "H" as a symbol could have a different meaning than for what we know it to mean.

    Why should Superman be the only icon that this would work for?


    but you are making an arguement that defeats your OWN argument:

    why can't the cross mean something else in Eternian Culture??


    see what i mean?
    So then, both our arguments could work for us and against us. Except that, to the reader/viewer/fan watching He-Man, the H couldn't possibly have a subversively negative meaning. (not that I'm saying I'm overly offended or anything, just pointing out a theory).


    I LOVE the battle armor logo, i would much rather get a shirt (or maybe tattoo) of that thing. but the original, is the original period.
    There are some things that I agree with this line of reasoning with, but not always. It jus sounds like it's all about nostalgia for you and most others, and that's cool too.

    if you take it OUT of context it really sounds lame:

    "we are changing a logo of our hero because some people think its religious."

    do those people like the line?

    "no, they just think its sort of "religious" "

    I hope that eveyone in here, and REAL big fans are all in agreement that WE know it has NOTHING to do with religion. (as far as the mythos goes)
    I don't quite understand that. Every new incarnation of the 80's toons/toys got altered a little bit thru the decades. GI JOE doesn't look quite the same, as when it first hit the scene in 82, neither does Transformers. Some of those changes were for the better, others..... Not so much (TF's is a good example for me).

    But changing the Cross to an H (or more like an asterisk, the more I look at it), doesn't do all that much to alter the character. Most casual fans probably didn't even notice the difference, to be honest.

    if people prefer the look of the H because it is just that, an H so be it, but to NOT like the cross cause you think it is religious, i think thats weak. but thats why the world has opinions, and these threads are fun.
    Agreed, but it's not necessarily a religious thing for me, because the Iron Cross was far from religious.

    i would love the movie armor to be battle armor/logo the whole time though, just in a realistic sense. thats again, just me....
    I wouldn't mind seeing that as well!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •