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Thread: Iron Man 3 Talkback - SPOILERS

  1. #76
    Heroic Warrior Master Joezilla's Avatar
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    I felt like Bruce Banner at the end crits, as soon as the movie started he fell asleep through the whole thing since it was boring, lets hope Thor & Captain America 2 reenergize the marvel studios movies.
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  2. #77
    Master of My Soul MOTU_Maniac's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess I didn't watch the same movie as some of you because I personally LOVED Iron Man 3. I also LOVED that we got to see a more in-depth look at Tony Stark as a man and that he struggled with certain aspects of life and had fears just like all of us at times.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Not really, at the end of the Avengers it appeared as if SHIELD was on the outs with the Government especially with the end scenes of Congress calling for the Heroes to be held accountable for the destruction of NY and the fact Fury had to shoot down his own planes.

    I get the sloppy part but that is how all the Marvel movies have been, its expected that since they ALL take place at the same time you are supposed to understand Captain America is off doing whatever he is doing in Winter Soldier and at the same time Thor is off doing whatever he is doing in the Dark movie.



    But see that is just it Rhodes is the ONLY person who ever has been in the suit, nobody had a reason to question it because the suit had never been compromised. This is your fault as a viewer overthinking it. Why should he have to prove who he is when he was the only one ever able to enter the suit. Remember these suits were coded for specific people and the ONLY reason someone else can get in the IP suit is because AIM hacked it. But to the Governments knowledge only Rhodes can work the suit so it was not a concern.

    In short the PROTOCOL was the fact only Rhodes could control the suit. Is that valid enough?
    No. Because it's likely that tony could still control the suit (he has shown he can hack his tech) not to mention it would have been so easy for a terrorist who's bombs can't be detected at this point could have made a iron patriot robot bomb. I mean NO ONE thought it was odd the Rhodes didn't acknowledge the president vocally?? See it's not something I overthought it ws an instant thought during the movie. they live in a universe where people were easily compromised, so at such a high security alert i'd think EVERYONE would have to be checked and rechecked. but this isn't a sticking point to me, it's just one of the complaints I had re: the 'smartness' of the movie. most of these things I can let go and again as I said enjoy the movie, but for me it was a semi-mindless popcorn flick. nothing wrong with that but that's my take.

    Honestly I am surprised so many are taking the mandarin fake out so well, I'm not a big iron man fan but I felt (when I heard the news) VERY ripped off by that. My friend and his wife did too. Even though I knew it was coming, (I didn't tell them) it still let the air out of the tires for me being prepared for it I still felt like booing the screen at that. but again I enjoyed the movie more than the sum of it's parts, if I break down what I felt was wrong with the movie like REALLY analyze those things, it will sound like I LOATHED it to Superman Returns levels. but I didn't, I rate it with Transformers 1. fun but flawed.

    I can take it or leave it to watch again, but the main reason i'd watch it again (won't pay to go though) is to see if i missed jokes and if i missed some stuff that negates my criticisms, I like being proven wrong and getting to enjoy something because I made a mistake. I have a pet peeve of people making criticisms based on them getting the wrong info(EG people who moan about batman quitting because rachel died when in fact he told Alfred his future with Rachel was his escape plan, her death was NEVER cited as his reason for retiring, the only reason cited was that they won the war. I have no problem with people disliking something, but dislike it for the ACCURATE reasons, not for a misunderstanding)
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  4. #79
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    No. See it's not something I overthought it ws an instant thought during the movie. they live in a universe where people were easily compromised, so at such a high security alert i'd think EVERYONE would have to be checked and rechecked
    Well then how did the AIM Henchmen get on the plane? at that point there was NO reason AIM employees should have been on the Presidents Plane. Your commentary that security was lacking is valid overall, however in the context of the movie the security was lacking all around and you are just choosing to attack the Iron Patriot part of it because you disliked it.

    As for the "twist" I did not have a problem with the Mandarin because I knew going in that it would be too difficult to pull off so I found their compromise amusing.
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  5. #80
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTU_Maniac View Post
    I also LOVED that we got to see a more in-depth look at Tony Stark as a man and that he struggled with certain aspects of life and had fears just like all of us at times.
    I enjoyed that, in fact his PTSD was one of the few 'smart' things in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Well then how did the AIM Henchmen get on the plane? at that point there was NO reason AIM employees should have been on the Presidents Plane. Your commentary that security was lacking is valid overall, however in the context of the movie the security was lacking all around and you are just choosing to attack the Iron Patriot part of it because you disliked it.

    As for the "twist" I did not have a problem with the Mandarin because I knew going in that it would be too difficult to pull off so I found their compromise amusing.
    Well to be fair I disliked the entire lack of security, but I didn't even remember the AIM guys being on AF1 because I was focused on Iron Patriot (because he is more visible) So this is what I mean with seeing it again to make sure my complaint is for the right reason. again to clarify, my problem with that is more because someone was raving about how smart the script was where these oversights were dumb. none of those ruined the movie for me, in fact the biggest ruin came from Mandarin but NONE of it made me hate the movie. for a comic book movie I didn't think it was great, but as a movie I thought it was pretty fun. I was able to let the mandarin thing slide even though I hated the decision to go that route, I can let it all slide, but those to me are still valid criticisms.

    Like i LOVE motuc, I get the philospohy of it etc, but I prefer what they were doing with the stactions more than anything. My criticisms for MOTUC don't make me hate the line, but I still wish I didn't have those sticking points (scale shared parts budget limitations etc)

    So I don't HATE IM3 I just hated the mandarin fake out, the other stuff are quibbles that make it not a great flick for me but i liked it for what (i thought) it was.
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  6. #81
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Joezilla View Post
    I felt like Bruce Banner at the end crits, as soon as the movie started he fell asleep through the whole thing since it was boring, lets hope Thor & Captain America 2 reenergize the marvel studios movies.
    Given the wild success of the film, I don't think anyone involved at Marvel is worried that they need to 'reenergize' anything.

    I think what's key to focus on here is that this movie really does get into the "man in the iron suit" vs. "Take that away, what are you?", from the Avengers, by letting us see exactly what Tony is, now that he's had a few movies to develop as a character. It's certainly a different approach than a ham-fisted "let's just punch a bunch of metal things in the face", such as IM2. IM3 is a more nuanced look at what drives the protagonist, rather than simply shoehorning Tony Stark into the trite formula that's been done to death.

    The Marvel Movies have made Iron Man a household name, but what I really enjoyed about IM3 was the fact that we now clearly see that Tony does have a moral center (as he makes clear in his contrast between Maya and Pepper). He's grown and developed as a character and as a hero, and if we just had more of the rock'em-sock'em action, that would not have happened.

    Also - it is interesting to me how many people are actually rolling with the Mandarin approach.
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  7. #82
    Heroic Warrior Master Joezilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatman:3253479
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Joezilla View Post
    I felt like Bruce Banner at the end crits, as soon as the movie started he fell asleep through the whole thing since it was boring, lets hope Thor & Captain America 2 reenergize the marvel studios movies.
    Given the wild success of the film, I don't think anyone involved at Marvel is worried that they need to 'reenergize' anything.

    I think what's key to focus on here is that this movie really does get into the "man in the iron suit" vs. "Take that away, what are you?", from the Avengers, by letting us see exactly what Tony is, now that he's had a few movies to develop as a character. It's certainly a different approach than a ham-fisted "let's just punch a bunch of metal things in the face", such as IM2. IM3 is a more nuanced look at what drives the protagonist, rather than simply shoehorning Tony Stark into the trite formula that's been done to death.

    The Marvel Movies have made Iron Man a household name, but what I really enjoyed about IM3 was the fact that we now clearly see that Tony does have a moral center (as he makes clear in his contrast between Maya and Pepper). He's grown and developed as a character and as a hero, and if we just had more of the rock'em-sock'em action, that would not have happened.

    Also - it is interesting to me how many people are actually rolling with the Mandarin approach.
    Just look at michael bays transformers movies, people say they hated his movies yet they turned out to be summer blockbuster hits & coutinue to make sequels since money comes in & a good story is out the window, I worry for the new TMNT or MOTU movie.
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  8. #83
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    Sorry, this is a dumb statement. That's like saying you want nothing but 2 hours of action without a plot. Without character development. Well I got three movies just for you. They are called Revenge of the Fallen, Dark of the Moon, and GI Joe Retaliation.
    I don't think he's saying that he wanted a no-brainer action flick, just more Iron Man screentime with Tony in the armor flying around and blasting things. You know, doing Iron Man type stuff. I wanted more Iron Man time too, not different suits of armor falling off him every few seconds. That's my second, middling problem with this flick.

    The first is the Mandarin. While his reveal is better received on these forums, it's the talk of the comic movie boards on comic book sites. I'd rather that the Mandarin was an actual terrorist who favored Chinese iconography like the trailers suggest. No, he doesn't have to be outright comic book Mandarin with the alien rings of power, but making him a terrorist could have linked him with the group who first captured Stark. He could have been their shadowy leader.

    And we're getting Hot Toys and Marvel Legends figures of this guy.

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  9. #84
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    SPOILER WARNING

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The first is the Mandarin. While his reveal is better received on these forums, it's the talk of the comic movie boards on comic book sites. I'd rather that the Mandarin was an actual terrorist who favored Chinese iconography like the trailers suggest. No, he doesn't have to be outright comic book Mandarin with the alien rings of power, but making him a terrorist could have linked him with the group who first captured Stark. He could have been their shadowy leader.
    Oh, I agree. I wanted my Mandarin to be a terrorist like the movie started him out as. They did such a good job building him up, that revealing him to just be an actor completely made the movie fizzle out for me and I got bored. From that point on, everything else was utterly predictable. HOWEVER, that does not mean the twist was not clever and made you think about what the heck just happened.

    It was both a positive and a negative all in one. And as such, it really makes it hard for me to explain my disdain for the movie properly. Overall, I give it a 7/10, but that score could also be generous because it is the first movie to come out this year that hasn't down right sucked. I pray to the gods that Great Gasby and Star Trek are amazing, because if they aren't, there is nothing coming out this year that is going to be good until The Hobbit 2.
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  10. #85
    Awesome Warrior Alexx's Avatar
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    Saw it tonight - had a great time! Lots of comedy right up my alley, and I loved seeing Stark figure things out while his armor was messed up. His interaction with the kid was GOLDEN, as well. Not only was the kid actually a good actor (avoiding the "annoying child actor" thing) but the whole dynamic was hilarious and worked so well.

    As for the Mandarin thing: totally took me by surprise, and I liked it. Kinda sucks there won't be a regular Mandarin in the universe, but...eh. He's not the most amazing villain to me. You've got the comics for that stuff - I like the movie universe they've created. Plus...heck, the main villain here STILL could have survived if they wana pull some plot strings.

    Finally: I hope we see more of AIM! I assume someone else in the company can take over. Maybe make a little MODOK, who knows?
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  11. #86
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    As for the Mandarin thing: totally took me by surprise, and I liked it. Kinda sucks there won't be a regular Mandarin in the universe, but...eh. He's not the most amazing villain to me. You've got the comics for that stuff - I like the movie universe they've created. Plus...heck, the main villain here STILL could have survived if they wana pull some plot strings.

    Finally: I hope we see more of AIM! I assume someone else in the company can take over. Maybe make a little MODOK, who knows?
    Exactly, I mean we still have Fin Fang Foom which could easily do something story wise to turn the "Mandarin" actor into the actual Mandarin
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  12. #87
    Heroic Warrior Master Joezilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu:3253742
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    As for the Mandarin thing: totally took me by surprise, and I liked it. Kinda sucks there won't be a regular Mandarin in the universe, but...eh. He's not the most amazing villain to me. You've got the comics for that stuff - I like the movie universe they've created. Plus...heck, the main villain here STILL could have survived if they wana pull some plot strings.

    Finally: I hope we see more of AIM! I assume someone else in the company can take over. Maybe make a little MODOK, who knows?
    Exactly, I mean we still have Fin Fang Foom which could easily do something story wise to turn the "Mandarin" actor into the actual Mandarin
    Im sure fin fang foom with turn out to be a lizard in a pet store that the actor Trevor talks to *plot twist*
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  13. #88
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    Saw it tonight - had a great time! Lots of comedy right up my alley, and I loved seeing Stark figure things out while his armor was messed up. His interaction with the kid was GOLDEN, as well. Not only was the kid actually a good actor (avoiding the "annoying child actor" thing) but the whole dynamic was hilarious and worked so well.

    As for the Mandarin thing: totally took me by surprise, and I liked it. Kinda sucks there won't be a regular Mandarin in the universe, but...eh. He's not the most amazing villain to me. You've got the comics for that stuff - I like the movie universe they've created. Plus...heck, the main villain here STILL could have survived if they wana pull some plot strings.

    Finally: I hope we see more of AIM! I assume someone else in the company can take over. Maybe make a little MODOK, who knows?
    what bugs me most about the mandarin thing is Iron Man generally hasn't a good rogues gallery, Mandarin in this movie could have launched that,(remember Iron man himself was a c-lister until the first flick came out) but instead we get yet another one off villain in the iron man cinematic universe. This movie could have introduced, or at least set up fin fang foom and the Magic vs Technology aspects and all that good stuff, but we get a craptacular (in my opinion) fake out.

    Honestly I have a feeling that Killian was ALSO fin fang foom (look at his tattoos) as he breathed fire as one of his attacks. Come on they set up the MCU to have fantastical things, gods, magic, demons, aliens, they all exist here but for some reason they skirt the issue with Iron Man and it always ends as a tech vs tech thing. Thankfully this one wasn't another iron man clone vs tony, but they can't avoid having a tonne of armours in the finale now can they?

    I should stop going on about this though honestly I did NOT hate the movie, but I'm disappointed because I thought it could have been way better. it had potential to really kick off the phase 2 aspect but it didn't - at least it didn't kick off anything BIG - maybe as things progress we will see thus far unknown planted seeds sprout, but I was hoping for a major shift.
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  14. #89
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post

    Finally: I hope we see more of AIM! I assume someone else in the company can take over. Maybe make a little MODOK, who knows?
    I'd love to see MODOK - when Tony was going through AIM's computer records, I was trying to see if "George Tarleton" appeared on the screen somewhere as an Easter Egg, but no such luck.
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  15. #90
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    I do have a general question regarding Iron Man, not REALLY specific to the movies but kind of. The arc reactor in IMs chest, it's a clean energy source right? Why does IM always run out of power when his arc reactor powers his suits? this is a question I don't know the answer to, not a snarky pointing out plot holes thing. I forget does the arc reactor have to recharge too??
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    what bugs me most about the mandarin thing is Iron Man generally hasn't a good rogues gallery, Mandarin in this movie could have launched that,(remember Iron man himself was a c-lister until the first flick came out) but instead we get yet another one off villain in the iron man cinematic universe. This movie could have introduced, or at least set up fin fang foom and the Magic vs Technology aspects and all that good stuff, but we get a craptacular (in my opinion) fake out.

    Honestly I have a feeling that Killian was ALSO fin fang foom (look at his tattoos) as he breathed fire as one of his attacks. Come on they set up the MCU to have fantastical things, gods, magic, demons, aliens, they all exist here but for some reason they skirt the issue with Iron Man and it always ends as a tech vs tech thing. Thankfully this one wasn't another iron man clone vs tony, but they can't avoid having a tonne of armours in the finale now can they?

    I should stop going on about this though honestly I did NOT hate the movie, but I'm disappointed because I thought it could have been way better. it had potential to really kick off the phase 2 aspect but it didn't - at least it didn't kick off anything BIG - maybe as things progress we will see thus far unknown planted seeds sprout, but I was hoping for a major shift.
    Eh, I don't think Iron Man is alone in the inability to build a Rogues Gallery for a movie universe. No one really tries. They want the villain to pull out thier BEST and move aside so the next villain can pull out THIER best. Often times they kill the villain anyway, and if they don't - we never see 'em again. Granted, things may be changing nowadays. Remains to be seen with how they handle Red Skull, Loki, and what threads come away from Iron Man 3 (AIM and whether or not Killian was blown up enough). Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if Red Skull or Loki get killed at the ends of thier respective arcs. If they're still alive there's no reason for them not to come back again and again and again - which is GREAT for comics, but in movies they seem to want the next biggest thing and not the same enemy you saw last time (unless it's a reboot).

    As for the magic vs tech angle: I agree it went back down to tech vs tech at the end...but the seeds of magic vs tech have already been planted. I know you wanted them to sprout here, but I think they're still growing and may sprout in the next Avengers. Tony was pretty upset by it and mentioned it, and even Killian mentioned how everything changed since Thor's Hammer fell out of the sky. They're still building the universe, and honestly I think it's a lot better than anything we've gotten in the past. I mean...continuity! Between different movies! Without constant reboots! Now THAT is magic! Or a new technology. I think they're often indistinguishable.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    I do have a general question regarding Iron Man, not REALLY specific to the movies but kind of. The arc reactor in IMs chest, it's a clean energy source right? Why does IM always run out of power when his arc reactor powers his suits? this is a question I don't know the answer to, not a snarky pointing out plot holes thing. I forget does the arc reactor have to recharge too??
    I don't know that this has been sufficiently explained. When Iron Man first began, he had to keep powering up the chest unit that was keeping him alive. Then, in the comics, he got rid of the shrapnel and no longer needed such a device for a very, very long time. It was only recently that they reintroduced it. I'm a little behind on the comics now, so I don't know where it stands now.

    But in the movies, it is an odd thing when he runs out of power. The only thing I can think of is that although the RT is renewable it takes a while for the suit to charge up again? Kind of a stretch, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    Eh, I don't think Iron Man is alone in the inability to build a Rogues Gallery for a movie universe. No one really tries. They want the villain to pull out thier BEST and move aside so the next villain can pull out THIER best. Often times they kill the villain anyway, and if they don't - we never see 'em again.
    Yep, which is one of the reasons I didn't understand why people were so mad about the Mandarin. Granted, Loki has bucked this trend so far. Not sure what they are going to do with the Red Skull. Iron Man does have a fairly weak rogue's gallery, but there are still some good ones to utilize that could be pretty awesome in the right hands.

    My hope for the future:

    Ghost. He could be very cool for a corporate espionage storyline, though he'd make a better henchman, maybe to someone like The Controller.

    Madame Masque and Count Nefaria. This one is trickier with Pepper around, but I guess Whitney Frost could be a pre-Pepper girlfriend. The trick is, Tony needs to really care about her.

    MODOK - I'd like AIM to continue on... with a new leader!

    Titanium Man - still a huge villain that hasn't really been tapped. Another armored guy, but if they build up his story enough it could work.

  18. #93
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    Eh, I don't think Iron Man is alone in the inability to build a Rogues Gallery for a movie universe. No one really tries. They want the villain to pull out thier BEST and move aside so the next villain can pull out THIER best. Often times they kill the villain anyway, and if they don't - we never see 'em again. Granted, things may be changing nowadays. Remains to be seen with how they handle Red Skull, Loki, and what threads come away from Iron Man 3 (AIM and whether or not Killian was blown up enough). Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if Red Skull or Loki get killed at the ends of thier respective arcs. If they're still alive there's no reason for them not to come back again and again and again - which is GREAT for comics, but in movies they seem to want the next biggest thing and not the same enemy you saw last time (unless it's a reboot).

    As for the magic vs tech angle: I agree it went back down to tech vs tech at the end...but the seeds of magic vs tech have already been planted. I know you wanted them to sprout here, but I think they're still growing and may sprout in the next Avengers. Tony was pretty upset by it and mentioned it, and even Killian mentioned how everything changed since Thor's Hammer fell out of the sky. They're still building the universe, and honestly I think it's a lot better than anything we've gotten in the past. I mean...continuity! Between different movies! Without constant reboots! Now THAT is magic! Or a new technology. I think they're often indistinguishable.
    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    I don't know that this has been sufficiently explained. When Iron Man first began, he had to keep powering up the chest unit that was keeping him alive. Then, in the comics, he got rid of the shrapnel and no longer needed such a device for a very, very long time. It was only recently that they reintroduced it. I'm a little behind on the comics now, so I don't know where it stands now.

    But in the movies, it is an odd thing when he runs out of power. The only thing I can think of is that although the RT is renewable it takes a while for the suit to charge up again? Kind of a stretch, though.
    Thanks! I wasn't sure if they really spelled out the rules, I won't be fussed by it I was just curious.





    Yep, which is one of the reasons I didn't understand why people were so mad about the Mandarin. Granted, Loki has bucked this trend so far. Not sure what they are going to do with the Red Skull. Iron Man does have a fairly weak rogue's gallery, but there are still some good ones to utilize that could be pretty awesome in the right hands.

    My hope for the future:

    Ghost. He could be very cool for a corporate espionage storyline, though he'd make a better henchman, maybe to someone like The Controller.

    Madame Masque and Count Nefaria. This one is trickier with Pepper around, but I guess Whitney Frost could be a pre-Pepper girlfriend. The trick is, Tony needs to really care about her.

    MODOK - I'd like AIM to continue on... with a new leader!

    Titanium Man - still a huge villain that hasn't really been tapped. Another armored guy, but if they build up his story enough it could work.
    Outside of the fakeout my biggest issue was ANOTHER Industrialist with a personal vendetta against Tony. THREE movies with the SAME villain!!! (same motive) I was hoping for something fresh and the way they sold Mandarin, that freshness was there, a villain out of NOWHERE with no ties to Tony, like Joker with Batman in Dark Knight, someone who doesn't make sense to Tony. Ahhhh the possibilities that that opens up that's what I was really hoping happened, even to have tony quit because he just can't make sense of this world even after winning. so much great potential that - to me- got thrown out for a gag then replaced with hey remember Obidiah Stane and Justin Hammer, I'm just like them!!
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  19. #94
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Yep, which is one of the reasons I didn't understand why people were so mad about the Mandarin. Granted, Loki has bucked this trend so far. Not sure what they are going to do with the Red Skull. Iron Man does have a fairly weak rogue's gallery, but there are still some good ones to utilize that could be pretty awesome in the right hands.
    The Mandarin is up there as one of Iron Man's top villains, which isn't a very big list to begin with. It's probably like screwing up one of Wonder Woman's rogues on the big screen when the only big choices are Cheetah, Circe, Giganta and Ares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Outside of the fakeout my biggest issue was ANOTHER Industrialist with a personal vendetta against Tony. THREE movies with the SAME villain!!! (same motive) I was hoping for something fresh and the way they sold Mandarin, that freshness was there, a villain out of NOWHERE with no ties to Tony, like Joker with Batman in Dark Knight, someone who doesn't make sense to Tony. Ahhhh the possibilities that that opens up that's what I was really hoping happened, even to have tony quit because he just can't make sense of this world even after winning. so much great potential that - to me- got thrown out for a gag then replaced with hey remember Obidiah Stane and Justin Hammer, I'm just like them!!
    Iron Man villains aren't really that diverse...

    Tony's archenemies usually are either rival industrialists, corporate saboteurs or international villains. The Mandarin, Fin Fang Foom, MODOK, AIM and Ultimo buck that trend.

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    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The Mandarin is up there as one of Iron Man's top villains, which isn't a very big list to begin with. It's probably like screwing up one of Wonder Woman's rogues on the big screen when the only big choices are Cheetah, Circe, Giganta and Ares.

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    Iron Man villains aren't really that diverse...

    Tony's archenemies usually are either rival industrialists, corporate saboteurs or international villains. The Mandarin, Fin Fang Foom, MODOK, AIM and Ultimo buck that trend.
    Right, that's why the Mandarin fake out sucked. we had the chance at a different villain but they just trod the well worn path of evil industrialist out for revenge. Blah/
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I don't think he's saying that he wanted a no-brainer action flick, just more Iron Man screentime with Tony in the armor flying around and blasting things. You know, doing Iron Man type stuff. I wanted more Iron Man time too, not different suits of armor falling off him every few seconds. That's my second, middling problem with this flick. .
    Totally agree with you here. The whole shtick of , "whoops--my armor should have stayed on me" got REALLY old like 3/4 of the way into the movie. It made the Iron -Man tech seem kinda crappy. Even the scene
     
    at the end where he was taking on the Extremis guy and the Mark 43? armore flew in and got you all excited and then it fell all over the place too
    I'm sorry--I really tried to like this movie--but the more time I have had to think about it--this was not a good movie at all (I think people are just giving it a pass due to it being an Iron Man movie)

  22. #97
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The Mandarin is up there as one of Iron Man's top villains, which isn't a very big list to begin with. It's probably like screwing up one of Wonder Woman's rogues on the big screen when the only big choices are Cheetah, Circe, Giganta and Ares.
    Oh, believe me, I'm quite well-versed in Iron Man lore. He's been one of my favorite superheroes since I was a little kid. Second only to the Fantastic Four, really.

    But, here's the thing. Even though he's a big Iron Man villain... it's almost by default. The truth is, the Mandarin has been involved in some pretty good stories... but nothing classic. And he's been constantly reinvented since his introduction in an effort to move away from his racist, Fu Manchu/Yellow Peril roots. I actually think sometimes the people who complain the most about what they did to him are kind of in the middle of knowledge about Iron Man. They know enough to know he's a big villain, but they haven't read enough actual Iron Man books to know that his treatment in the comics has been less than reverent, and in some cases, he's been purposefully pushed into the background. There's a reason the Iron Man animated series tried to turn him into a half-dragon man! So that's why I actually felt more prepared for it. I honestly never thought I'd see Mandarin in the movie. When they announced him, I was excited. When they said Ben Kingsley was playing him... less so. That's the thing I don't get. If people are so reverent of the idea of the Mandarin, how in the hee-haw was Ben Kingsley playing him as some terrorist ring leader of non-Asian descent respectful of the source material? It's already off the rails. So taking it one step further didn't bother me. In fact, it was something of a relief.

  23. #98
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    But, here's the thing. Even though he's a big Iron Man villain... it's almost by default. The truth is, the Mandarin has been involved in some pretty good stories... but nothing classic. And he's been constantly reinvented since his introduction in an effort to move away from his racist, Fu Manchu/Yellow Peril roots. I actually think sometimes the people who complain the most about what they did to him are kind of in the middle of knowledge about Iron Man. They know enough to know he's a big villain, but they haven't read enough actual Iron Man books to know that his treatment in the comics has been less than reverent, and in some cases, he's been purposefully pushed into the background. There's a reason the Iron Man animated series tried to turn him into a half-dragon man! So that's why I actually felt more prepared for it. I honestly never thought I'd see Mandarin in the movie. When they announced him, I was excited. When they said Ben Kingsley was playing him... less so. That's the thing I don't get. If people are so reverent of the idea of the Mandarin, how in the hee-haw was Ben Kingsley playing him as some terrorist ring leader of non-Asian descent respectful of the source material? It's already off the rails. So taking it one step further didn't bother me. In fact, it was something of a relief.
    I think casual fans associate the Mandarin as Iron Man's "Doctor Doom or Darth Vader", thanks to Iron Man's 90's comics and cartoon. Hands of the Mandarin or The Dragon Seed Saga aren't Demon in a Bottle or the Armor Wars.

    I wasn't expecting a full-on comic book Mandarin. I was hoping that we'd get the leader of the Ten Rings, a group that had been in the trilogy in all three pictures. I expected that they would change him up for the movies like they do for other characters. He probably wouldn't have had his alien rings either. But not make him a joke character.

    I think that's the gist of why they were upset. Not who was playing him, but because he wasn't an actual terrorist.

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    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think casual fans associate the Mandarin as Iron Man's "Doctor Doom or Darth Vader", thanks to Iron Man's 90's comics and cartoon. Hands of the Mandarin or The Dragon Seed Saga aren't Demon in a Bottle or the Armor Wars.
    Oh, yeah, I agree. I definitely think that's the issue.

    I wasn't expecting a full-on comic book Mandarin. I was hoping that we'd get the leader of the Ten Rings, a group that had been in the trilogy in all three pictures. I expected that they would change him up for the movies like they do for other characters. He probably wouldn't have had his alien rings either. But not make him a joke character.

    I think that's the gist of why they were upset. Not who was playing him, but because he wasn't an actual terrorist.
    Yeah, and I guess because the whole terrorist thing was covered well with the first movie, I'd find that as boring as having another rival businessman. So, I at least enjoyed the twist... even if it lead to another rival businessman eventually.

    Funny you mention Hands of the Mandarin, because while the actual story is a bit of a let down, there are the seeds of an interesting story there. I'd love to see a story where Tony squares off against magic in the movies. It's at the heart of the Hand of the Mandarin storyline and could be executed better. I know tonally that would have been weird, but I feel like post-Thor maybe it'd be more acceptable? I think it could make for a different feel for the movies but still be successful. I kind of doubt we'll see that, though, in the movie universe should IM4 happen.

  25. #100
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    Saw it over the weekend and liked it pretty well.

     
    I think Tony blowing up his suits at the end was kind of short-sighted since they'd just saved the day and meanwhile the bad guy, who was able to breathe fire, is presumed dead by...fire...after it didn't work several times. Yeah, I wouldn't trash the private army just yet, symbolic BS closure or not.

    In fact everything about the ending felt rushed. Pepper is an immortal Fire Woman now only…Tony fixed or something so she's better now? What?

    Also, they remove the shrapnel like it was no big deal, like Tony just hadn't gotten around to that or something. What a cheat! That didn't feel earned at all, it was like someone told Shane Black at the 11th hour that they have this great idea for Tony's story in Avengers 2 but that he needs to end his movie with the set up or it won't work. Actually, I'll bet that is what happened.


    I actually did like how the Mandarin twist was done, but I also agree that a proper magic-alien Mandarin would be a welcome new direction for the Iron Man movies now that we're accepting the more fantastical Marvel universe elements. I love that Trevor is alive at the end. Maybe….some alien demon will possess him in a later movie? My biggest gripe about that is mainly that the reference to the 10 Rings in the first movie now looks like it was just fan service and not a set up for anything. I mean if Killian was somehow behind that, and he could have been, they wasted an opportunity to bring it up here. That group basically changed Tony's life! It's not nothing if the people behind the Mandarin also did that to Tony and basically created Iron Man. I think it will have a lot less meaning if it comes out after the events of this movie, so I call bad choice on not tying that stuff together here. I think it would have worked. I guess Jebediah Stain's ring was just an ordinary ring after all and no hint of a deeper conspiracy than we knew. Damn, that was part of my excitement about the first movie too. I'm so sorry to see it come to nothing.

    I'm gonna have to say that although I've liked Guy Pierce in many movies, I found him very boring as Killian in this movie. I think Sam Rockwell's Hammer and heck even mumbling Mickey Rourke were more engaging. That the comics have lame villains isn't a very good excuse. Make them interesting! It's not like they're staying very faithful to the comics in that regard anyway. I liked Killian's henchman a lot though, especially the lady with the scar and bald Lord of the Flies guy.

    I liked seeing all our returning characters again too. I'd have liked more Tony/Pepper interaction though. I feel bad for Rhodes however, this makes twice now that War Machine has been compromised by the bad guys. Vanko hacked him by remote control in the last one, now the Extremis guys put someone new in the suit. I agree that it was dumb for the US government and Secret Service to not have any kind of security verification process to make sure Iron Patriot was safe since he'd been compromised before and, well, he was last heard from on a mission in the Middle East. The trouble is in movies, the military and SS are almost always idiots. The movie Air Force One's plot hinged entirely on them screwing up in the most essential way. It's just one of those movie BS things you have to accept like ventilation shafts always being big enough for people to crawl through and satellites always being in position whenever anyone needs anything and no one ever caring about good phone etiquette.

    Anyway, I think IM2 was not quite as bad as it tends to be portrayed, and now I think IM3 is not quite as good, but they're both movies I enjoy even if they don't quite match the fun of that first Iron Man outing.

    I sure hope this was not the be and end all of AIM and that we'll still see MODOK.

    RE SHIELD, I didn't miss them while watching the movie, but I did feel a lot less anticipation for the next Marvel movie after seeing IM3. I realize most of the connective tissue that helped build up to Avengers was rooted in SHIELD's presence, so I have to say I'm sorry they weren't involved. Also the post-credit bit was a huge let down. Plus, the new Banner is already going gray! I guess that makes sense given his condition, but damn that we're years away from another solo Hulk movie.
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