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Thread: MOTU / DC Crossover Comic Mini-Series #1 Discussion

  1. #651
    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    For me its not the violence....I'm enjoying the story. As I said before...I don't care about it being a work of art or great literature. ...for me its just fun to read. When it stops being fun FOR ME....then I'll stop buying it. I'm not one to buy something just to support a brand. I LOVE Star Wars but there are a lot of things I pass on. Same for MOTU. This comic series just happens to be something I'm really enjoying. No matter what anyone says about it, they don't diminish my enjoyment. I'm not a sheep or a lemming. I just know what I like.
    And in the end, this is what is important. I may not like the new comic series, but I don't have a problem with anyone that does. I don't feel the need to question someone's taste if they do like it, or "provide enlightenment" on why it is bad in an attempt to "turn people from the dark side". I also do enjoy reading why people do like it because it makes me question my own ideas.
    It is spelled "Crita", not "Critta". Misspell her name and Crita will knock the "T" out of you!

    Also...get her into the line!

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  2. #652
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    For me its not the violence....I'm enjoying the story. As I said before...I don't care about it being a work of art or great literature. ...for me its just fun to read. When it stops being fun FOR ME....then I'll stop buying it. I'm not one to buy something just to support a brand. I LOVE Star Wars but there are a lot of things I pass on. Same for MOTU. This comic series just happens to be something I'm really enjoying. No matter what anyone says about it, they don't diminish my enjoyment. I'm not a sheep or a lemming. I just know what I like.

    Seems reasonable enough.

    No matter how many one star reviews I will read of Spawn or Barbarian Queens or whatever, they will never stop me from enjoying these trashy things.

    It's this overly defensive stance of trashy stuff we see that I think is objectionable. I wouldn't be that insecure as to argue that folks ripping on Spawn are being rude or whatever by telling me why it's trashy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Barezz View Post
    And in the end, this is what is important. I may not like the new comic series, but I don't have a problem with anyone that does. I don't feel the need to question someone's taste if they do like it, or "provide enlightenment" on why it is bad in an attempt to "turn people from the dark side". I also do enjoy reading why people do like it because it makes me question my own ideas.

    Well again you are one of those who chooses to read the stuff I said in the very worst way possible.

    Sorry you are so easily offended.
    Last edited by Eamon; September 28, 2013 at 02:50pm.
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  3. #653
    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post

    Well again you are one of those who chooses to read the stuff I said in the very worst way possible.

    Sorry you are so easily offended.
    And I'm sorry that you so easily assume that my words were directed at you. If they were, I would have quoted you, or mentioned you in my post.

    So unless your mutant ability is to read my mind or intent over the internet, you may want to rethink that bit.


    I was speaking purely for myself.
    It is spelled "Crita", not "Critta". Misspell her name and Crita will knock the "T" out of you!

    Also...get her into the line!

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  4. #654
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barezz View Post
    And I'm sorry that you so easily assume that my words were directed at you. If they were, I would have quoted you, or mentioned you in my post.

    So unless your mutant ability is to read my mind or intent over the internet, you may want to rethink that bit.


    I was speaking purely for myself.
    Well you quoted 'provide enlightenment' and I didn't see anybody esle use those words but me.

    But if you say that wasn't aimed at me I will have to take your word for it.
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Classic Darkspecter and Mega Gear Max not dropping something? Heaven forbid!
    We are JUST as opinionated as you are and will debate with you when you say something that we really don't agree with.

    However, we were told to get back to discussing the crossover by mikethedrummer at the end of the last page, so you don't have anything more to worry about from me for this conversation.

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  6. #656
    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Well you quoted 'provide enlightenment' and I didn't see anybody esle use those words but me.

    But if you say that wasn't aimed at me I will have to take your word for it.
    I don't recall you using those exact words, so I can assure you that it wasn't. At this point between this thread, other threads, and various projects I don't really remember who says what where at this point, lol.

    You might be giving my brain too much credit!
    It is spelled "Crita", not "Critta". Misspell her name and Crita will knock the "T" out of you!

    Also...get her into the line!

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  7. #657
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    We are JUST as opinionated as you are and will debate with you when you say something that we really don't agree with.

    However, we were told to get back to discussing the crossover by mikethedrummer at the end of the last page, so you don't have anything more to worry about from me for this conversation.
    Dude, sorry but no one is as opinionated as you. You argue for arguments sake and you give opinion for opinion sake.

    Pretty sure I never wanted the NA conversation in the first place!
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Dude, sorry but no one is as opinionated as you. You argue for arguments sake and you give opinion for opinion sake.

    Pretty sure I never wanted the NA conversation in the first place!
    You're a fine one to talk, Eamon. I'm easier to talk to by far and my opinion can change.

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  9. #659
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethedrummer View Post
    As Robin Hood stated above, we have gone off topic here. This thread is about the discussion of the new MOTU/DC crossover comic. The religious statements have been removed. If you want to take it to the Tar Swamp to discuss it further in that aspect, feel free. Let's get back on track, gang.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Classic Darkspecter and Mega Gear Max not dropping something? Heaven forbid!


    Teela not being a bully when she actually is and the art in being subjective are redicilous claims. We have discovered that violence is the mark of quality..which is most certainly is not.
    Teela is a bully in the new comic. She's terrible! I can't stand her! I agree that saying she isn't is a ridiculous claim. The art part is tricky, but I get what you mean. I think everyone on the .org should read this article. It's a very good piece about personal taste (liking or not liking something) vs objectivity.

    http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...ly-subjective/

    Objectively, yes, a lot of the art in the comic isn't great...which I think is disappointing, because the MOTU pieces Pop Mahn posts on his deviantart look beautiful. I'm not sure why this hasn't translated to the actual book. I know this new comic is terrible. I HOPE it improves. I think the Despera character and storyline are done well and having Queen Marlena
     
    show up on Earth
    was a nice surprise, but the rest of the story and characterization needs serious work.

    About the Emmy/Grammy thing, of course they mean something, but just because someone hasn't won an award, it doesn't mean their work is terrible. There are amazing actors, musicians, singers, artists, writers, etc. that have never won any awards. Also, there are times "politics" are involved where a person/artist/group who should be nominated for an award, is left off the ballot for one reason or another (this happened with the Academy Awards in 2010 or 2011 for best song because of something SONY did which appeared to be bribery, which it wasn't). There also have been films, for example, that majorly bombed at the box office because they were ahead of their time.

    Also, sometimes (not all the time), but sometimes there are terrible things that are popular and generate a LOT of sales and/or ratings, which leads to awards. These things which are terrible, but have awards, do not make them good, but they sure are popular.

    A few examples:

    Transformers, Transformers 2, Transformers 3, Vampire Diaries, TruBlood.

    Everything isn't black and white. While you are correct that awards for writing and physically drawn art are not usually handed out to people who don't deserve them, it does happen, just not as frequently as it does with movies, music and TV.

    Back to the comics. They are of a low quality.
    For those who think this comic is good, ya'll really need to present better arguments than "violence makes it gritty and therefore good".
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Dude, sorry but no one is as opinionated as you. You argue for arguments sake and you give opinion for opinion sake.
    You can't resist being condecending can you?! Don't worry I am not insulted but i just think it's funny I get flack for so much and condecension goes utterly unchecked.
    Last edited by Darkspecter; September 28, 2013 at 04:32pm.
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  10. #660
    Heroic Warrior enoch's Avatar
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    This is why I dont listen to roast gooble anymore. Sigh.

  11. #661
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    Okay all, back to the topic at hand—the comic books—AND OFF each other. If you guys want to continue debating each other's personalities, do so over PM.

    Again, this thread is about the COMIC.

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Okay all, back to the topic at hand—the comic books—AND OFF each other. If you guys want to continue debating each other's personalities, do so over PM.

    Again, this thread is about the COMIC.

    Again, this thread is about the COMIC.

    Thanks!
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  13. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super He-Man View Post
    There's a comic?

  14. #664
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Pixel-Dan, Danielle, and myself have just recorded an epsiode of Dan's podcast, Geek Easy. A Roast Gooble Invasion so to speak! We go into so serious talk about the comic so I hope folks will tune in. Details to be posted soon I am sure!
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  15. #665
    SoH Supporter He-Dad's Avatar
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    Looking forward to it although are ANY of you fans of the comic or is ir just a bash fest?

  16. #666
    Ray of Sunshine Lookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    Looking forward to it although are ANY of you fans of the comic or is ir just a bash fest?
    Just because people don't like something does not constitute a bash fest. Would your podcast be a love fest? He-Dad, if you like the comic, good for you, but if it looks like crap IMO and smells like crap IMO, then for me, it is crap. YOU will not change my mind on that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    ''

    It's He-man in Space (cue the Pigs in Space Music!) Jet lag took away everything that was He-man. It was no longer swords and sorcery. It was Duck Dodger in the 23rd century. And the toys sucked....well to me as a child. As I child I hated the cartoon as well. NA actually turned me completely off of He-man and I didn't come back until last year when Netflix and a home video from 1984 sparked interest from my own son. This comic is a million times better than ANYTHING NA IMO.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Eamon.....we are in complete and utter agreement here. I will never debate you on this point. See...not all my taste is terrible.....

    BTW I respect Jack immensely. He's written some awesome stuff and he is not only a gifted and talented writer but also a gracious and just a genuine good guy. But even Shakespeare had clunkers. I even tried to watch it. More than once.....I can't. It's nails on a chalkboard to me. I think I actually hate it more now than I did back then. If I want space I go to Star Wars.
    I really don't see how DC is NOT doing the same thing. The comic is the 2010s version of NA.
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    Just because people don't like something does not constitute a bash fest. Would your podcast be a love fest? He-Dad, if you like the comic, good for you, but if it looks like crap IMO and smells like crap IMO, then for me, it is crap. YOU will not change my mind on that.
    He-Dad is probably hoping for a balanced review. I think you will get that with the podcast.

    I really don't see how DC is NOT doing the same thing. The comic is the 2010s version of NA.
    I think the new DC comic is another re-invention of the Filmation storyline like 200X/MYP was. NA took He-Man and Skeletor and changed EVERYTHING about them -- looks, allies, vehicles, settings.

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  18. #668
    Stridor in MOTUC! RockinHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I also stand firmly by my statement that you cannot measure a person's worth in awards or accolades. If you do, Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are two of the best artists and people in the world, which I think most people know is very far from the truth.
    I'm glad to read this coming from you. Lady Gaga is an absolute joke when it comes to talent. She is proof that people will like just about anything.
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  19. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think the new DC comic is another re-invention of the Filmation storyline like 200X/MYP was. NA took He-Man and Skeletor and changed EVERYTHING about them -- looks, allies, vehicles, settings.
    I agree the new DC comic is a re-invention, mixing in some MYP, some Filmation, and their own canon as well. NA was much more of a departure with brand new characters and setting.

  20. #670
    SoH Supporter He-Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    He-Dad is probably hoping for a balanced review. I think you will get that with the podcast.



    I think the new DC comic is another re-invention of the Filmation storyline like 200X/MYP was. NA took He-Man and Skeletor and changed EVERYTHING about them -- looks, allies, vehicles, settings.
    Thanks Max...you are right on all accounts. I don't have a podcast but no, it wouldn't be a hippie love fest as I never said it was perfect nor am I trying to change anyone's opinion of the comic. I used to have a weekly entertainment radio show and always tried to find balance in my critiques. Helped that mo co host and I often disagreed on everything. Its actually why I hired him. Anyway in regards to my post here, I was just telling people why I enjoy it and I think that people here are sometimes overly critical without really giving it a chance. It was issue 1 of the crossover. Constructive criticism and friendly debate is always welcomed. I guess I don't really understand the comparison to NA at all.

  21. #671
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    So are we to measure quality by then? Why even have a the word quality if as folks say everything is subjective or up for opinion?

    To suggest that accolades across every thing is not a measure of talent is just a redicilous thing to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    So are we to measure quality by then? Why even have a the word quality if as folks say everything is subjective or up for opinion?

    To suggest that accolades across every thing is not a measure of talent is just a redicilous thing to say.
    When it comes to art, quality is subjective. It's art. It will always be subjective.

    And when it comes to talent, no matter how anyone feels about the current comic, the people working on it are talented people. Keith Giffen is a fan-favorite creator with a long background in comics and a big roster of great stories under his belt. Dexter Soy is an extremely talented guy. His art style may not be to everyone's liking, but that doesn't mean he's not talented.

    And accolades are not necessarily a measure of talent. A person can surf Deviantart and find a great number of people who don't work professionally who get tons of praise. Those artists may be producing great stuff or have a talent they are honing. But, again, it's all subjective. We all have art we like and dislike. And fans both liking and disliking the new MOTU comic is further evidence of this.

    IMO, this is more about measuring our words on the internet. This thread is a great example of how folks have gone in circles around what could have been said.

    Text is harsh and unfeeling and it's up to us to assign meaning to the best of our ability. If more folks framed their posts as their own opinion based on their own unique interests while also doing thier best to respect the creators, each other and a difference of opinion, then I feel we wouldn't have many arguments, we could all simply agree to disagree and then we could all enjoy a pint.

  23. #673
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    When it comes to art, quality is subjective. It's art. It will always be subjective.

    And when it comes to talent, no matter how anyone feels about the current comic, the people working on it are talented people. Keith Giffen is a fan-favorite creator with a long background in comics and a big roster of great stories under his belt. Dexter Soy is an extremely talented guy. His art style may not be to everyone's liking, but that doesn't mean he's not talented.

    And accolades are not necessarily a measure of talent. A person can surf Deviantart and find a great number of people who don't work professionally who get tons of praise. Those artists may be producing great stuff or have a talent they are honing. But, again, it's all subjective. We all have art we like and dislike. And fans both liking and disliking the new MOTU comic is further evidence of this.

    IMO, this is more about measuring our words on the internet. This thread is a great example of how folks have gone in circles around what could have been said.

    Text is harsh and unfeeling and it's up to us to assign meaning to the best of our ability. If more folks framed their posts as their own opinion based on their own unique interests while also doing thier best to respect the creators, each other and a difference of opinion, then I feel we wouldn't have many arguments, we could all simply agree to disagree and then we could all enjoy a pint.

    Things like anatomy and perspective are not subjective. What you are saying is just not true.

    If that were the case then things like degrees or any qualfication would be worthless.

    Yes sure there are exceptions but to suggest that it applies across the board is just not accurate and paints a false picture of the industry as essentially saying 'any old crap will do as it's all subjective anyways'. Not true.

    I don’t think anybody has said that the guys on the comic have no talent.
    Though the fact that they have done better work elsewhere kinda makes it worse for those of us who dislike the comic and wonder why they are doing lesser quality work on MOTU.

    The very nature of forums is to debate and discuss a lot of which usually questions skill. Questioning talent is not the same as saying a person has none. That's kind of an unfair spin on what folks are saying.
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  24. #674
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    Things like anatomy and perspective are not subjective.
    They most definitely are subjective. This isn't a diagram for a doctor or blueprint for a building. This is art. Things like abstract approach, extreme proportioning, stylistic choice and the very nature of storytelling itself all allow for untold diversity.

    The very nature of forums is to debate and discuss a lot of which usually questions skill. Questioning talent is not the same as saying a person has none.
    While it's true that it's not the same as saying they have none, questioning talent is questioning the natural ability of the person. You can't learn talent.

    DC thought enough of these creators' talent to hire them. DC's upper management has signed off on them working for the company. The editors and talent manager put them on titles. And Mattel thinks enough of their art to approve them on this title.

    So if a person questions the talent of the creators working on any comic, not only is that very disrespectful to the creators, but it also implies that person knows better than the people responsible for hiring creators. I know it happens all the time, primarily with people who will never work in comics or in commercial art, but that's still not a good excuse for comments born out of naiveté.

    As far as I'm concerned, any debate about talent should be taken off the table. Instead, focus on what is being produced for this series. I think we should stay away from the creators themselves, and zone in on final product.

    Fans could say "I don't feel the penciller did their best on this issue" or "the writer's approach on this issue wasn't to my liking." Both of those are individual opinions based on one's own tastes, phrased as such, that do not judge the creators for their natural ability. And as far as I'm concerned, that's the type of criticism that we as fans should strive to practice.

  25. #675
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    They most definitely are subjective. This isn't a diagram for a doctor or blueprint for a building. This is art. Things like abstract approach, extreme proportioning, stylistic choice and the very nature of storytelling itself all allow for untold diversity.
    All of which comes after you understand what you are stylising or making abstract in the first place.
    Piscasso understood anatomy and persepctive so well he decided to break it down.

    There’s intertional distortion and then there’s just lack of understanding. You seem to be confusing the two.
    If art was subjective as you say then any old thing will do and that’s just how the world works.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    TWhile it's true that it's not the same as saying they have none, questioning talent is questioning the natural ability of the person. You can't learn talent.

    DC thought enough of these creators' talent to hire them. DC's upper management has signed off on them working for the company. The editors and talent manager put them on titles. And Mattel thinks enough of their art to approve them on this title.

    So if a person questions the talent of the creators working on any comic, not only is that very disrespectful to the creators, but it also implies that person knows better than the people responsible for hiring creators. I know it happens all the time, primarily with people who will never work in comics or in commercial art, but that's still not a good excuse for comments born out of naiveté.
    I think you are selling the creators short in how thick their skin is. This the is comic book industry and this is a forum about a comic.
    It think it’s very unrealistic to say that critism shouldn’t happen. I would imagine that comic books artists are well aware of this. I don’t see how that’s being nieve. I would argue it’s nieve to suggest otherwise.

    I would point out that folks have brought my art into this conversation which has nothing to do with anything.
    I don’t see them being held account like it appears I am being here.


    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, any debate about talent should be taken off the table. Instead, focus on what is being produced for this series. I think we should stay away from the creators themselves, and zone in on final product.

    Fans could say "I don't feel the penciller did their best on this issue" or "the writer's approach on this issue wasn't to my liking." Both of those are individual opinions based on one's own tastes, phrased as such, that do not judge the creators for their natural ability. And as far as I'm concerned, that's the type of criticism that we as fans should strive to practice.
    If we cannot debate this or that talent what can we talk about then?

    People will always be passionate. Generally the more you care about something the more you will discuss and debate it. When we talk about the talent, we're already focusing on what is being produced. We're talking about the quality of the art in these products. Of course there are names attached to it, the product is made by people after all so it’s unavoidable. But none of our criticism is a judgment about the person.
    (well except me apparantly with folks suggesting I am a homphobe in this thread that is which is neither relevant or true).

    People will have opinion and none of us have no control over that.
    Last edited by Eamon; September 30, 2013 at 02:03pm.
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