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Thread: Star Trek Into Darkness

  1. #1
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Star Trek Into Darkness

    No thread about this? I searched and searched. A bit surprised.

    First of all, let me say I really enjoyed the movie. But it does have issues.

    First of all, it's great to see the crew back together. Unfortunately, this is an all-to-brief occurrence because the plot demands for some of them to break off again. It does make me sad we can't follow this crew week to week in a show, because all around they are fantastic and really do such a great job of inhabiting their roles.

    I enjoyed Cumberbatch a ton, playing
     
    the not-a-surprise-really-at-all Khan. He's perfect for the role, and an excellent villain. But, stripped of his history with Kirk, the battle between he and Kirk doesn't resonate as much in the shadow of Wrath. The death of Pike is sad, though almost inevitable in a way, I suppose. And that's good motivation for Kirk. But once that gets sidetracked and Khan and Kirk must team up (which I found very fun, btw) then they switch things around so that it's TWOK but Kirk and Spock reversed.

    This is the least successful element of the movie, to me. Even some of the lines are the same. And it pulled me out of the movie. Some people were laughing a bit. It was just an un-needed thing, to me. I like this Kirk and Spock, but they aren't the original Kirk and Spock. This scene cannot hope to have the gravitas of the original, so why did they put themselves in this position? Especially when we could all figure the way out of it so easily?

    The Vengeance is a cool nemesis for the crew. And the battle is pretty good, if short. It was great to see Nimoy again, though I found that scene to be a bit silly, too. "Hey, Old Spock - how do we get out of this jam? And can you explain why Khan is bad?" It felt like such a narrative short cut. And again, sort of pulled me out of the movie a bit.


    All that being said. I loved Uhura in this. Loved the action set pieces. Loved the main villain. Loved Scotty. Loved Sulu's moment. If anyone is sort of poorly served, it's probably Chekov. So even though there were about two moments that broke the spell, and made the whole a bit weaker than the 2009 movie... there was a lot to like here.

    If anything, I really want the movies to forge their own path now. That's not to say, given the ending, that I wouldn't mind
     
    a rematch with Khan someday...

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  3. #3
    Heroic Reviewer of MOTUC Pixel Dan's Avatar
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    I really, really enjoyed this movie. Like, a lot. I don't think I could've been happier with it.

     
    I really enjoyed the role reversal during the Wrath of Khan moments. I though that was a nice touch, and even got excited realizing how much of that scene was shot similar and had nearly identical dialogue. In the theater I was in, there was a lot of chatter during this scene. A lot of *gasps* and excitement. So it seems like everyone around me also thought this was a cool scene and a neat way to do this. I even really enjoyed the "Khaaaaaan!" yell coming from Spock. It was all just so much fun!
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  4. #4
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Dan View Post
     
    I even really enjoyed the "Khaaaaaan!" yell coming from Spock. It was all just so much fun!
    I did enjoy that a lot. It's funny, I think those scenes will "bother" me less on a second viewing. I guess my thing was that it took me out of the story because I was being hammered home that
     
    it was a recreation of a past event. Still, I do think it was kind of fun. And I did think they mined some good emotion out of it... it's just that the way they set it up if you're a fan of the original films you're going to compare them in your mind. I would rather have had the same stuff happen in a slightly less on-the-nose way. That way I could have just enjoyed the moment without the comparisons flying in the back of my head.


    That being said, it was... what, 7 minutes maybe of the movie? It didn't keep me from enjoying it a ton.

  5. #5
    Heroic Reviewer of MOTUC Pixel Dan's Avatar
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    This is like Ultimate Star Trek. Same people, different universe. That's the way I look at it.

    By the way, I really loved the opening sequence a ton! All of the mentions of the Prime Directive and everything were teriffic!
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  6. #6
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Dan View Post
    I really, really enjoyed this movie. Like, a lot. I don't think I could've been happier with it.

    Okay, I may regret asking this, but based on what you said
     
    about recreating Wrath of Khan moments in reverse....do they kill off Kirk instead of Spock???
    "That's very interesting...but silly."

  7. #7
    Heroic Reviewer of MOTUC Pixel Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatman View Post
    Okay, I may regret asking this, but based on what you said
    Do you really want me to tell you? Don't click the spoiler tab unless you REALLY want to know.

     
    Yes. But there's a bit more to it that that.
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  8. #8
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Dan View Post
    Do you really want me to tell you? Don't click the spoiler tab unless you REALLY want to know.
    Hunh. Interesting. I'm very intrigued to see this now, more than I was, actually!
    "That's very interesting...but silly."

  9. #9
    Heroic Warrior Ridureyu's Avatar
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    I'm still really miffed that
     
    they made Khan WHITE. Sure, they cast a latino last time instead of an ethnically-Indian guy, but that's better than a white honky cracker. See, Khan is not a white guy. His DNA is a conglomeration of a bunch of conquerors, most of whom weren't caucasian, and etchnically he's actually Indian for some reason. Subcontinental Indian, not Native American. Making him a white British dude seems to say that, because he's genetically perfect, he has to be white. You can't let your physically perfect specimen have dark skin, oh, no! It's just racism. Complete and utter racism. No disrespect to Benedict Cumberbatch, he's an awesome actor, but.... GAAAAAAAAAAH. This is Hollywood whitewashing at its worst!

  10. #10
    Leader of the Autobots Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    I have to concur with Ridureyu on the above.
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  11. #11
    Heroic Reviewer of MOTUC Pixel Dan's Avatar
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    Hmmm, yeah...

     
    I'm really not sure why they opted to change his race. It's not something I really gave any thought to while watching. But you make a valid point. Still, I thought the actor did a really great job as the character.
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  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior Ridureyu's Avatar
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    Just ahead of time, please don't call me
     
    hyper-sensitive or hypocritical or anything. It was stupid when they made the Honeymooners black for their movie, too - especially because they did it to make Ralph Kramden seem more low-class/working-class, and apparently they thought audiences wouldn't buy the idea of a poor white dude. I thought The Last Airbender's race-changing was bad (only villains can be non-white!), Heimdall had a great actor but I'm still not convinced about black norsemen (seriously. It's like that one actual viking movie they made in the '70s that had a racially-inclusive cast. It just doesn't work), but I thought Samuel L. Jackson really brought Nick Fury home (and matched the Ultimate Universe), so he gets a pass. Maybe they thought making Khan non-white would have unfortunate implications, but they apparently weren't thinking about the WORSE implications of making a genetically-perfect man whitewashed.

  13. #13
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridureyu View Post
    Just ahead of time, please don't call me
     
    Well to be fair the asgardians aren't technically norsemen, they are essentially aliens in the MCU. spoiler tags added because people might guess about the Khan thing
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  14. #14
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    I think being bothered about the
     
    race switch is valid, but man-o-man Cumberbatch is so perfect in the role.

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior Ridureyu's Avatar
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    They're norse aliens. People would complain if somebody drew Asgardians as three-eyed purple dudes, even if they said "But they're aliens!" Idris Elba did a great job and redeemed it, but it was obviously stunt casting, which very, very, very rarely works well. And besides, if I'm mad for ethnicity changes in one movie, I have to be consistent.

  16. #16
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Looking for a reason to see this movie? I can give you 72 and they're all in this film. Shall we begin?

    Kirk and Spock are still struggling their approach to making decisions. Kirk goes with his gut feeling and Spock still deals with cold hard logic. But a terrorist attack on Star Fleet forces them to get their act together when chasing down the man responsible.

    It's a very good sci-fi adventure movie, but I think I liked the first one more, which I thought was great. There's a lot more fun and entertainment in the original with the group dynamic. This one has more individual great moments with Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty, but very little Sulu, Chekov, and Uhuru.

    The villain might have been the strongest and weakest part of the movie. The actor is fantastic and a scene stealer. His character is also extremely important in Star Trek lore, but without the history between he and Kirk, it really diminishes his stature in this movie. I would love it if this was just set up for a third movie where they meet again, but do people want to see the same villain again when there's so much more they can use from actual Star Trek?

    Anyways, very good, not great. Anyone can watch this movie, like the first one. You don't need to pick up on all the references to old Star Trek, but it's a bonus if you do.

  17. #17
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    most times it doesn't bother me if

     
    race is not part of the character's history. ie making Black Panther a white guy destroys who black panther is. Making Khan white IMO destroys who he is as well for the reasons you stated. no offense to white people but there is NO WAY they would be genetically perfect obvious scientific reasons explain why. Avatar the last airbender it matter because the story was not only immersed with east asian culture but why can't we have a major motion picture blockbuster without a white protagonist cast? When they made Baxter Stockman white in the original TMNT cartoon it stung a bit because we have so little representation of other races in cartoons esp at that time, but it didn't matter much for the character
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  18. #18
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused as to why

     
    Khan as played by an Englishman is a problem, as the character is written to be a Sikh from Asia, but having him played by Ricardo Montalban, a Mexican, is not a problem???
    .

    My wife and are going to see this tonight. Really looking forward to it - just for build-up (and because my wife hadn't seen them in ages), last night we re-watched
     
    Space Seed and Wrath of Khan
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  19. #19
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    One thing this movie did really well is that it over simplified the trailer. The movie has lots of surprises.

  20. #20
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatman View Post
    I'm a little confused as to why

    .
    I am by NO MEANS a trekkie/trekker/well versed in the universe. most of what I know is based on me hearing or reading about the characters.
     
    In this day and age if the character's race is part of the character as Khan's is, they shouldn't cast someone who doesn't have SOME kind of qualities to express that. Many mexicans are decended from darker skinned indigenous peoples mistake by white explorers FOR indians, so Montalban at least had a tan and some indian-esque features. I'm not in arms about this casting but Star Trek and many other big franchises are MAINLY white casts, but the world we live in now is way more open to more ethnicities on screen than the past, esp when the role kind of CALLS for another ethnicity. I guess the only issue is casting a non-white actor in the role of Khan gives away him being Khan more than a white guy. but everyone pretty much assumed he was Khan long ago.
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  21. #21
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    What did you guys think of Spock's moment where he calls out the villain by his name? Did he pull it off? Pretty risky.

  22. #22
    Heroic Reviewer of MOTUC Pixel Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    What did you guys think of Spock's moment where he calls out the villain by his name? Did he pull it off? Pretty risky.
    That was indeed risky, but I liked it!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    One thing this movie did really well is that it over simplified the trailer. The movie has lots of surprises.
    I noticed that as well! Most of the scenes in the trailer are all taken from the first 15 minutes of the movie, and not the actual plot!
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  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Ridureyu's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm not gonna say that
     
    Mexican Khan was a good thing, but it was CLOSER to good than Benedict Cumberbatch. I also don't think it was an intentionally racist move, but it just shows an unfortunate mindset - he's a suave, powerful, ultra-capable bad guy who is genetically perfect and ruled most of the world? He's got to be white and British!

  24. #24
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    I loved Spock yelling that line!

    And the trailer did do an awesome job of showing a lot but not a ton. And it also had some clever misdirection that made you think the story was going to go one way when it went another. Man, I want to see it again NOW!

  25. #25
    Leader of the Autobots Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Sheer garbage, even my wife hated it, and she didn't mind the first Abrams Trek. Here's Movie Bob's opinion and yes he states there are spoilers LOL




    Abrams' fascination with size really makes me wonder about him. Considering his version of the Enterprise is now as big as a Galaxy-class starship from TNG, and the ship the Enterprise tackles towards the end of the film is 2-3 times the size of nu-Enterprise?
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