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Thread: Who's a more interesting super-hero, Superman or ANY Marvel super-hero?

  1. #1
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    Who's a more interesting super-hero, Superman or ANY Marvel super-hero?

    Okay, so I know sparks are going to fly on this one, but then that's part of what the board is about, isn't it?

    For me, on the interest level, Superman can't hold a candle to any of the Marvel heroes.

    All right. I'll give Superman props for his backstory. The whole thing with Jor-el sending "his only son" to Earth resonates with me, but then a lot of you know I'm easily drawn in by theological symbolism.

    Part of the problem with Superman for me has always been Supe's virtually invulnerable nature. Yeah, yeah. I get the whole Kryptonite deal. But because it's the only thing that can get to him it becomes predictable -- "Here comes Lex with a shard of Kryptonite inside a briefcase again."

    The other thing is the guy is just too powerful. When you can fly, can exist in outer space and underwater with no life support system, have x-ray vision, can freeze stuff, are able to whip around the world so fast that you can go back in time and can lift a mountain, where's the tension compared to a super-hero who can only sling webs or go "Flame on!"? I admire super-heroes that have great strength. But even Wolverine and, my personal fave, Captain America can get roughed up in a fight.

    Added to this, Superman's had more costume changes that Cher or Reba did at one of their concerts. Irritatingly, from film to film he keeps changing costume styles in hopes of somehow generating interest in himself. It really ticks me off. Ya don't see Spidey in his traditional get-up in one film and then wearing a lime green warm-up suit with gold epaulets in the next.

    And don't even get me started on the quality villains. Dr. Freeze, Doc Ock, Dr. Doom -- I always thought someone at Marvel had a grudge against the American Medical Association with all those doc villains -- not to mention the Green Goblin and a host of other truly great villains. And what's Superman got? Some guy that belongs in a Hair Club for Men commercial whose only 'super power' is that he's smart and has a seemingly endless supply of Kryptonite? Supe hasn't had a villain worthy of him since General Zod in my book and even then it took three Kryptonians to have a chance against Superman. And just as an aside, why did it take three of them to stand a chance against Superman since they all came from Krypton and, thus, would supposedly have the same powers, which they didn't? Can you say "Plot hole"?

    Anyway, that's where I stand. As far as I'm concerned, Superman's not even in the same universe as Marvel super-heroes. Get it? 'Marvel'? 'Universe'?

    I'll start ducking now to avoid getting hit by heads of rotten cabbage hurled by Superman fans.

    So where do you guy stand?
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; August 12, 2015 at 01:32pm.

  2. #2
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    I never really liked Superman or collected any DC comics so mine would be a biased opinion.

    But I can say that I've never been a fan of the over-powerful, invincible protagonist. It doesn't really make any threats very credible to me.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    I never really liked Superman or collected any DC comics so mine would be a biased opinion.

    But I can say that I've never been a fan of the over-powerful, invincible protagonist. It doesn't really make any threats very credible to me.
    Over-powerful, invincible antagonists, on the other hand, are an entirely different story and, of course, is the reason you're my all-time favorite villain, Benny.

    Seriously, in fairness Superman was -- and in many ways still is -- a wildly popular super-hero. I believe part of that stemmed from the fact that he was created at a time when Americans wanted to feel we were the top superpower and his staying power was a result of the fact that, for a long time, we were the only true force in the world and no one stood a chance against us. Hence he was symbolic of all we were.

    Times have changed and while America is still the world's only true superpower -- despite Putin riding horseback while bare-chested and China trying to convince us they are a super-power when the average life expectancy of a traffic cop in Beijing is forty-two because of the air pollution -- there are plenty of powers that can and have taken a shot at us. Bottom line: we're no longer 'invulnerable'. So maybe that's a reason why the Marvel characters strike a chord with me -- i.e., like America, their super-heroes have flaws and weaknesses and their antagonists are powerful. Also like America, however, they have a dogged determination to overcome truly substantive obstacles in their path and do so despite their flaws and weaknesses.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; August 10, 2015 at 03:18pm.

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    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    I don't think any of them are inherently more interesting. But I think a character like Superman is MUCH more difficult to write well. The less powerful a hero, the easier it is to craft stories that place them in peril, or force them into figuring things out.

    IMO, the best heroes have flaws. To briefly move to Crime Fiction, I absolutely hate the wildly popular Jack Reacher character. Lee Child is a fantastic plotter, but he's created a protagonist that is so much better that everyone else at everything, that its hard to feel anything for him. I never feel he's really in danger, and its hard to empathize with him. And that's a problem most writers have with Superman. To really write a good Superman, you have to focus more on his internal flaws, and less about his physical ones.

    For me Grant Morrison's 12 issue All-Star Superman is not only the best Superman story I've ever read, but one of the best Superhero stories overall. And he actually makes Superman MORE powerful during its run, instead of relying on the age old crutch of weakening him. That said, I think that well is much more limited and its why we've seen Morrison write years worth of Batman stories, but very little Superman.

  5. #5
    Dyspeptic Theologian Dave-Man's Avatar
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    Of course, one can be a fan of any comic character for a variety of reasons. Marvel has had some very good stories over the years, really they have, but I have always been a big fan of the Blue Boy Scout.

    I think the thing that always resonated with me about Superman, strangely enough, was the loneliness of the character. I mean, think about it. Sure, he's invulnerable, can fly, has freeze breath, heat vision, yada yada, but who can he really, and I mean really, talk to? Who else can resonate with his experience. Half the time, he lives the lie that he is a normal man in order to stay sane. Who else has his experience? Well, there's Supergirl - a teenage girl, an experience which Supes would have his own problems relating to. Most of the other surviving Kryptonians hate his guts. Even other characters like J'Onn J'Onzz or Captain Marvel don't quite share his experience. Lex Luthor might approach his mind in stature, but Lex wants to kill him and is unlikely to stay around and chat. Most people (these days at least) seem to find him to be an insufferable jerk. And all he really wants is to live up to the dream Ma and Pa Kent had for him.

    So you see, the character can be a bit more interesting than the Boring Invincible Hero - but I can see it'd be very tough to write. In his own way, he's as messed up as any Marvel character.
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    Heroic Warrior JakeofEternia's Avatar
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    I'm not specifically a DC guy or a Marvel guy, but given the forced choice of picking one or the other, then I'm going with Superman.

    Most of his over-the-top powers are the result of poor writing. Yes he is very powerful, but kryptonite isn't the only way to put him in peril. If your hero is nearly invulnerable then it's not a case of having him in danger, it's having the people he's close to in danger. It's having him make hard choices. It goes beyond a simple bad guy vs good guy into more compelling territory where you need to tell a story where a hero with amazing superpowers has to do something that powers can't answer. Sure he can do amazing things, but he's still just one guy.

    To me Superman continues to persist as one of the greatest and most popular heroes in history because he has that ability to inspire us as people to be better. We want to fly, we want to see through solid objects. In that way he's inspired us as human beings to push beyond our limits and explore what's possible. Also with Superman are the theme's of truth, justice, and standing up for people who can't stand up for themselves. It's a theme present with other heroes like Captain America, but Superman is more than just an American icon, he's a global icon. It extends beyond just symbolizing the red, white, and blue patriotism that Americans like to project. Superman goes beyond that. Superman isn't an American, he's an immigrant. He's the ultimate fish out of water story, and what Superman stands for goes beyond race, religion, nationality or orientation. It's about a greater achievement for the entire human race.

    But if you're judging solely on picking up a comic book every month, who would I rather pick a Superman comic or ANY Marvel hero, then I'd have to go Marvel. I don't read Superman each and every month, but I do pick up a few Marvel books.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-Man View Post
    Of course, one can be a fan of any comic character for a variety of reasons. Marvel has had some very good stories over the years, really they have, but I have always been a big fan of the Blue Boy Scout.

    I think the thing that always resonated with me about Superman, strangely enough, was the loneliness of the character. I mean, think about it. Sure, he's invulnerable, can fly, has freeze breath, heat vision, yada yada, but who can he really, and I mean really, talk to? Who else can resonate with his experience. Half the time, he lives the lie that he is a normal man in order to stay sane. Who else has his experience? Well, there's Supergirl - a teenage girl, an experience which Supes would have his own problems relating to. Most of the other surviving Kryptonians hate his guts. Even other characters like J'Onn J'Onzz or Captain Marvel don't quite share his experience. Lex Luthor might approach his mind in stature, but Lex wants to kill him and is unlikely to stay around and chat. Most people (these days at least) seem to find him to be an insufferable jerk. And all he really wants is to live up to the dream Ma and Pa Kent had for him.

    So you see, the character can be a bit more interesting than the Boring Invincible Hero - but I can see it'd be very tough to write. In his own way, he's as messed up as any Marvel character.
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    The only Marvel character I've ever had any real interest in is the Punisher, I've read the odd bit of X-Men that I thought was ok, X-Statix and Exiles were alright though, so I'd much rather read Superman, especially any silver age stuff than pretty much any of the stuff that Marvel puts out.

  9. #9
    Hunter ST > Milo Y diosoth's Avatar
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    Personally I think Marvel relies way too much on characters having tragic backstories. Not everyone needs to have a bad childhood or mental problems. I mean, we have Batman for that. On the other hand, some complexity is good- forget the whiners, Venom was better as a tortured and conflicted anti-hero than a generic "I want to kill some guy" villain. Mind you, most of my Marvel experience was the 90s era cartoons and comics, and I generally dislike everything Quesada did and I think the whole idiotic mess they're pulling because of film rights needs to stop. I also see New 52 as totally unnecessary- not because of some love for the older stuff, but because, well, it wasn't necessary. Screwing up Lobo especially is unforgivable.

    I will admit, one major flaw of a character that is very hard to kill is that videogames suffer. Superman and Wolverine games especially have been a mess since their true powers would be like playing most games with cheat codes on(and you get oddity powers like Wolverine's sense of smell which can be tricky to translate). However, while I like Batman TAS, watching Superman get beaten around so much in DCAU also turns me away. This is a character known to shrug off bullets, he shouldn't be getting knocked around with punches unless kryptonite is involved. He seems to get smacked around a lot in the DCAU.
    Last edited by diosoth; August 10, 2015 at 10:07pm.

  10. #10
    Dyspeptic Theologian Dave-Man's Avatar
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    An interesting thought I had while reading this thread again was, let's say you have a character like Superman that you're not much interested in, that previous stories have pretty much made nigh invincible. If you were somehow given the rights to this character and instructed to make them interesting again, what would you do? Because a lot of stuff, like de-powering or killing off their secret identity or whatever has been done to Superman over the years and it never seems to "take". Others, like Spider-Man have had changes made and then the editors instituted something drastic like a deal with the Devil (no kiddin') to take them back to their "status quo" and undo changes that were both popular and had been around for years. Most of the usual tricks are old hat to comics fans. What would be a fresh take?
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  11. #11
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    I wish Superman were nerfed down and made more Marvel scaled. Something like Thor-level in strength and power. He would be higher end of the spectrum, but nowhere near as impossible to write for.

    I was such a big fan of John Byrne's Superman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    And don't even get me started on the quality villains. Dr. Freeze, Doc Ock, Dr. Doom -- I always thought someone at Marvel had a grudge against the American Medical Association with all those doc villains -- not to mention the Green Goblin and a host of other truly great villains. And what's Superman got? Some guy that belongs in a Hair Club for Men commercial whose only 'super power' is that he's smart and has a seemingly endless supply of Kryptonite? Supe hasn't had a villain worthy of him since General Zog in my book and even then it took three Kryptonians to have a chance against Superman.
    Superman actually has a Rogue's Gallery, but they haven't been explored enough in non-comic based media except for Smallville and Superman TAS. Off the top of my head, there's...

    Brainiac
    Darkseid
    Kalibak
    Cyborg Superman
    Doomsday
    Parasite

    Silver Banshee
    Livewire

    The italicized can physically give Superman a run for his money. Too bad the movies won't use these characters and make Luthor more of an "behind the scenes" villian.


    And just as an aside, why did it take three of them to stand a chance against Superman since they all came from Krypton and, thus, would supposedly have the same powers, which they didn't? Can you say "Plot hole"?
    I would assume, experience and power. The three were just getting used to their powers, as evidenced by Non's lack of skill using heat vision (Non wasn't very bright either). Superman's been using his powers and soaking in yellow sun radiation for years, so he had an edge. It was also like this in Man of Steel. Zod was military trained (whereas Superman was not), but Superman had an edge because he was used to his powers. But the military trained Zod was getting more powerful by the second.

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  12. #12
    No more OT Dice's Avatar
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    Superman is and always has been one of my least favorite comic characters of all time.

    The main reason being exactly what a lot of you have already said. He's ridiculously overpowered. Heck, they've even taken powers away from him over the years because it got to a point where he had every power. They've written comics with him juggling planets: he's faster than the speed of light. He's able to have 10,000 thoughts a second. He can't be harmed by anything and emitts a "force field" that gives his clothing the same power.

    The biggest issue I have with Superman is that a writer need only to publish a story in the mainstream comic arc and it becomes cannon. This "superman" went from being really strong to every one of his atoms has the power of 10,001,010,100,010,010,100,101 brazzilian suns. Oh, but if there's a piece of his home planet around they immediately lose all that power and he's a normal guy. At least that was the case. I think they've made him invunerable to even that now. There's so much media out there with him doing ridiculously powerful things, yet he has problems handling guys that technically shouldn't be able to even have a thought pass before he'd defeat them.

    At this point Superman is a fake skin bag with an immensely packed in load of energy inside him.

    And the Clark Kent thing....holy crap is there not ENOUGH to do throughout the entire universe that you need to spend a portion of your day pretending to be a regular guy? I mean, his circle of friends and people and races and solar systems and galaxies that depend on him must be immense. He's got time to waste on a 9 to 5?


    Superman, in my not so humble opinion, represents DC's desire to have the most powerful comic character in writing. Marvel or any other fiction medium can make up a super powerful character and DC will put a comic out showing Superman being even stronger every time.


    Excuse my rant...he just gets under my skin the way he's written. I liked the movie version of him struggling to hold the oil rig. I like seeing him with some of his powers, still quite powerful. Just not ridiculous Superman.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    Personally I think Marvel relies way too much on characters having tragic backstories. Not everyone needs to have a bad childhood or mental problems. I mean, we have Batman for that. On the other hand, some complexity is good- forget the whiners, Venom was better as a tortured and conflicted anti-hero than a generic "I want to kill some guy" villain. Mind you, most of my Marvel experience was the 90s era cartoons and comics, and I generally dislike everything Quesada did and I think the whole idiotic mess they're pulling because of film rights needs to stop. I also see New 52 as totally unnecessary- not because of some love for the older stuff, but because, well, it wasn't necessary. Screwing up Lobo especially is unforgivable.

    I will admit, one major flaw of a character that is very hard to kill is that videogames suffer. Superman and Wolverine games especially have been a mess since their true powers would be like playing most games with cheat codes on(and you get oddity powers like Wolverine's sense of smell which can be tricky to translate). However, while I like Batman TAS, watching Superman get beaten around so much in DCAU also turns me away. This is a character known to shrug off bullets, he shouldn't be getting knocked around with punches unless kryptonite is involved. He seems to get smacked around a lot in the DCAU.
    Marvel has "Tragic backstories"? How about your father sends you light years away because your entire planet is going to be destroyed? So you lose you Mom and Dad and your whole planet and you get to a new planet and you're adopted but you can't use any of your super-powers so you end up growing up to be a nerd in high school, then your adoptive father dies of a massive heart attack when you're still a teen?

    Or should we take a look take a look at Bruce Wayne who actually witnessed the murder of his parents?

    I'll respectfully suggest that Marvel doesn't have the market cornered on tragic backstories.

  14. #14
    άber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeofEternia View Post
    . . . Yes he is very powerful, but kryptonite isn't the only way to put him in peril. If your hero is nearly invulnerable then it's not a case of having him in danger, it's having the people he's close to in danger. It's having him make hard choices. It goes beyond a simple bad guy vs good guy into more compelling territory where you need to tell a story where a hero with amazing superpowers has to do something that powers can't answer. Sure he can do amazing things, but he's still just one guy.

    To me Superman continues to persist as one of the greatest and most popular heroes in history because he has that ability to inspire us as people to be better. We want to fly, we want to see through solid objects. In that way he's inspired us as human beings to push beyond our limits and explore what's possible. . . . what Superman stands for goes beyond race, religion, nationality or orientation. It's about a greater achievement for the entire human race.
    ^ This.

    This is why I prefer the nigh-invulnerable version of He-Man with near-infinite strength from the FILMation series to other versions of the character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeofEternia View Post
    I'm not specifically a DC guy or a Marvel guy, but given the forced choice of picking one or the other, then I'm going with Superman.

    Most of his over-the-top powers are the result of poor writing. Yes he is very powerful, but kryptonite isn't the only way to put him in peril. If your hero is nearly invulnerable then it's not a case of having him in danger, it's having the people he's close to in danger. It's having him make hard choices. It goes beyond a simple bad guy vs good guy into more compelling territory where you need to tell a story where a hero with amazing superpowers has to do something that powers can't answer. Sure he can do amazing things, but he's still just one guy.

    To me Superman continues to persist as one of the greatest and most popular heroes in history because he has that ability to inspire us as people to be better. We want to fly, we want to see through solid objects. In that way he's inspired us as human beings to push beyond our limits and explore what's possible. Also with Superman are the theme's of truth, justice, and standing up for people who can't stand up for themselves. It's a theme present with other heroes like Captain America, but Superman is more than just an American icon, he's a global icon. It extends beyond just symbolizing the red, white, and blue patriotism that Americans like to project. Superman goes beyond that. Superman isn't an American, he's an immigrant. He's the ultimate fish out of water story, and what Superman stands for goes beyond race, religion, nationality or orientation. It's about a greater achievement for the entire human race.

    But if you're judging solely on picking up a comic book every month, who would I rather pick a Superman comic or ANY Marvel hero, then I'd have to go Marvel. I don't read Superman each and every month, but I do pick up a few Marvel books.
    Well I certainly agree that many of us "want to see through solid objects", but I think that's a matter more appropriately addressed in The Tar Swamp.

  16. #16
    No more OT Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    ^ This.

    This is why I prefer the nigh-invulnerable version of He-Man with near-infinite strength from the FILMation series to other versions of the character.
    I love this version of He-man as well (I also include vast knowledge of the universe with his powers). I love World War version Hulk with ridiculous strength. I love Juggernaut and Ghost Rider, each of whom you can not destroy. All very powerful but they have at least some limitations. It makes them using the power they do have much more inspiring to me as a reader or fan.

    Comic superman loses that for me because he's got no limitations to what he can do. And for all the power they've given him, they tend to underuse his powers in most stories. Because if they didn't there wouldn't really be a story.

    In most of the Superman stories, between his ability to move and think at ridiculous speeds, along with his strength and various other powers (long range vision, super hearing, laser vision that cuts through ANYTHING, freeze breath, mastery of countless martial arts from the universe), there shouldn't really be any fights. He should arrive and finish up everything before the antagonist even realizes he's there.

  17. #17
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post

    In most of the Superman stories, between his ability to move and think at ridiculous speeds, along with his strength and various other powers (long range vision, super hearing, laser vision that cuts through ANYTHING, freeze breath, mastery of countless martial arts from the universe), there shouldn't really be any fights. He should arrive and finish up everything before the antagonist even realizes he's there.
    And that's why he's so difficult to write. But when someone really gets it, its the very definition of what superheroes can be.

    All-Star Superman: Again, a perfect 12 issues to me. So much heart and pathos. Action, Excitement, danger and fun. IMO, one of the best comic stories ever told.

    Man of Steel: John Byrne at (or just slightly past) his peak as a creator. While Morrison powered him up, Byrne scaled him back. Byrne also was masterful in making Clark Kent vital.

    Superman Adventures: By Mark Millar (yes, that Mark Millar...). All-ages book, but so much more than that. Millar completely transformed the book from an animated series adaptation to something really fantastic.

    Alan Moore's Superman: Not just two of the greatest Superman Stories ever told (For The Man Who Has Everything and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?), but also his run on Rob Liefeld's (!?!) Supreme. Moore threw away everything that had come before, and using Supreme as a Superman Pastiche, wrote his 3rd great Superman story.

    There are others as well, but I'll put those 4 examples up against the best of any other character.

  18. #18
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    There is a difference between liking the character, and liking his stories. I'll admit that a LOT of writers have had problems writing Superman and keeping him interesting. It's also a question of the audience. Adults expect more complicated an nuanced drama then kids do.

    And that's what superman was created for. That's who superman appeals to. Kids.

    Kids are small, they are weak, they get picked last in class... And suddenly here is a hero that is dressed in bright primary colors and is the best at everything. He's the fastest, the strongest, nothing hurts him, he can fly!!! He's everything they are not... but he dresses like they do. Weak, insecure and picked on by bullies.

    He shows that even the nerd can save the day. Add in the fact that he is the ultimate outsider. Always among people but never really 'human'... it's not surprising he's been consistently popular for decades.


    Kids tended to buy a few comics and see their heroes then grow up. Or their parents would only buy them occassionally... After 80 years of adventures... there really is nothing new. We adults read it and roll our eyes because we've already seen everything he has to show us... unless they up the ante and make a MORE powerful villain.... which we've ALSO seen a dozen times. Kids see it a few times and are amazed at unbelievable feats of heroics!

    Personally I'm a fan of Superman, and my 8 year old nephew LOVES superman. I like other characters MORE... I prefer Daredevil, Captain America, Spider-man and Green Lantern BETTER... Throw a few more weakness and personal achievement in there... but Compared to a LOT of Marvel characters Superman blows them all away.

    I keep seeing people talk about Silver Surfer... Superman is SOOOOO much more interesting then Surfer... or Spider-man clone #7... or...heck any of the blatant copycats running around marvel copying the top tier marvels... 3 iron men, 4 hulks, 3 captain Americas... Sooo yeah. to generalize one powerful character against a whole universe is never going to be true.

    He's less interesting then a lot of marvel... and more interesting then a whole lot more it....

  19. #19
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    I'm a dc guy so my view will be a bit biased.

    Because I am a dc guy my marvel knowledge will suck.

    Hm. who in marvel is interesting? who has an interesting back story? Magneto? If his movie backstory is anything like his comic backstory then there is some serious trauma and drama there. with a dash of bad dad. Tony stark? the billionaire who dabbles in tech and had a drinking problem? Dr Doom? ruler. wants to rule the world. There has to be trauma and drama there. Dr Banner? brains who tries to control the beast within.

    what about the DC side?

    Aquaman? rejected by atlantis but doesn't feel he fits in with the land lovers. in on continuity lost his son. Harold "hal" Jordan? watched his dad (and jet) go "boom" in front of him at a young age. turned space cop. and who knows what kind of trauma and drama a space cop goes through. Cyborg? half man. half man. always feeling like you don't fit in cause the way you look.
    Captain COld? rough childhood. That will turn you mean and bitter and angry. Booster Gold? Futuristic jock turned criminal who runs away via time travel. always on the run.
    Heat Wave? The pyromaniac?
    The JSA for fighting Nazis in a world war?
    Batman? parents gun down right before his young eyes.

    If anything I'm trying to say if you take a moment there are other equally more interesting heroes/personalities within each universe.

    If anything I'd pick some other than Superman for the comparison to marvel.

    I could easily go on as to why I think "x" character ISN'T interesting. but I won't. I'm not interested in making this a mile long response.

    Each character is interesting in their own right.

  20. #20
    No Red Beast, We Riot! Whiplash7's Avatar
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    Um...Superman. Apart from Spider-Man, I find little to no redeeming value in the entire marvel universe.

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior MOLKROM's Avatar
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    The only DC Heroes I half care about are Super Man , Wonder Woman and Flash . If i had to choose either DC or Marvel i guess i like Marvel . I dont feel Superman is any stronger then Hulk or Thor . As far as Super heroes go he is a far better role model and has much more in common with HeMan then any other "Hero"

    I recall DC characters being associated with responsible parental authority figures while Marvel heroes acted more like bratty teenagers . Marvel is an interesting read but why do so many of their characters need to be broken physically and mentally or a social outcast ? I feel Stan was going overboard to squeeze empathy from us .

    Most of Stan,s heroes have dabbled with the dark side something Superman would never consider for the most part . On the other hand we have enjoyed quite a few more weddings in the marvel universe . In some ways Marvel is a bit more grounded and realistic and it moves on with life .
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  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior felgekarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    And that's why he's so difficult to write. But when someone really gets it, its the very definition of what superheroes can be.

    All-Star Superman: Again, a perfect 12 issues to me. So much heart and pathos. Action, Excitement, danger and fun. IMO, one of the best comic stories ever told.

    Man of Steel: John Byrne at (or just slightly past) his peak as a creator. While Morrison powered him up, Byrne scaled him back. Byrne also was masterful in making Clark Kent vital.

    Superman Adventures: By Mark Millar (yes, that Mark Millar...). All-ages book, but so much more than that. Millar completely transformed the book from an animated series adaptation to something really fantastic.

    Alan Moore's Superman: Not just two of the greatest Superman Stories ever told (For The Man Who Has Everything and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?), but also his run on Rob Liefeld's (!?!) Supreme. Moore threw away everything that had come before, and using Supreme as a Superman Pastiche, wrote his 3rd great Superman story.

    There are others as well, but I'll put those 4 examples up against the best of any other character.
    Nice call on Alan Moore's Supreme stuff, there's some great stuff in there.

  23. #23
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Superman is and always has been one of my least favorite comic characters of all time.

    The main reason being exactly what a lot of you have already said. He's ridiculously overpowered. Heck, they've even taken powers away from him over the years because it got to a point where he had every power. They've written comics with him juggling planets: he's faster than the speed of light. He's able to have 10,000 thoughts a second. He can't be harmed by anything and emitts a "force field" that gives his clothing the same power.

    The biggest issue I have with Superman is that a writer need only to publish a story in the mainstream comic arc and it becomes cannon. This "superman" went from being really strong to every one of his atoms has the power of 10,001,010,100,010,010,100,101 brazzilian suns. Oh, but if there's a piece of his home planet around they immediately lose all that power and he's a normal guy. At least that was the case. I think they've made him invunerable to even that now. There's so much media out there with him doing ridiculously powerful things, yet he has problems handling guys that technically shouldn't be able to even have a thought pass before he'd defeat them.

    At this point Superman is a fake skin bag with an immensely packed in load of energy inside him.

    And the Clark Kent thing....holy crap is there not ENOUGH to do throughout the entire universe that you need to spend a portion of your day pretending to be a regular guy? I mean, his circle of friends and people and races and solar systems and galaxies that depend on him must be immense. He's got time to waste on a 9 to 5?


    Superman, in my not so humble opinion, represents DC's desire to have the most powerful comic character in writing. Marvel or any other fiction medium can make up a super powerful character and DC will put a comic out showing Superman being even stronger every time.


    Excuse my rant...he just gets under my skin the way he's written. I liked the movie version of him struggling to hold the oil rig. I like seeing him with some of his powers, still quite powerful. Just not ridiculous Superman.


    Agreed. If alot of Superman stories have to either lower his power level or not utilize his power set to the fullest in order to make him interesting, then DC might as well just simply make him weaker.

    I think Superman only really needs super strength (think Thor, Wonder Woman or Hulk levels, but not impossibly strong), flight, x-ray vision, heat vision, freeze breath and a high resistance to injury (again, think Thor, Wonder Woman or Hulk).

    I'd get rid of his super speed entirely, because it's Flash territory. I'd also get rid of telescopic and microscopic vision and his super hearing and super smell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    ^ This.

    This is why I prefer the nigh-invulnerable version of He-Man with near-infinite strength from the FILMation series to other versions of the character.
    Ugh. I HATED the ultra high power levels on He-Man and She-Ra. Their various enemies were jokes (see Colossor, an enemy so hyped up all episode to get reduced to rubble by a single punch). By the second season, Skeletor was phoning his plots in. He-Man and She-Ra really didn't take their enemies seriously either and wisecracked their way through battles as they flipped and twirled their enemies and wrapped them up in the floor or whatever was nearby.

    This is one of the reason why I preferred the MYP version. He-Man had to fight for that "Most Powerful Man in the Universe". Imagine the Rocky movies if everyone Balboa fought was a joke? That's Filmation He-Man and She-Ra. Not so with MYP. He-Man was defeated at times. The Snake Men were a threat and the Horde were a MEGA threat. Hell, Skeletor's "home court advantage" at Snake Mountain helped to beat the Masters, something we never saw in Filmation.

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  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post

    Agreed. If alot of Superman stories have to either lower his power level or not utilize his power set to the fullest in order to make him interesting, then DC might as well just simply make him weaker.

    I think Superman only really needs super strength (think Thor, Wonder Woman or Hulk levels, but not impossibly strong), flight, x-ray vision, heat vision, freeze breath and a high resistance to injury (again, think Thor, Wonder Woman or Hulk).

    I'd get rid of his super speed entirely, because it's Flash territory. I'd also get rid of telescopic and microscopic vision and his super hearing and super smell.
    Gotta keep the 'faster then a speeding bullet' thing. Otherwise he'd never get to the crime in time... What you describe is pretty much iconic superman since the 80's... Death of Superman was basically him being punched to Death by a Hulk clone.

    Some people are bored with Superman... but I think a lot more are bored with what they THINK Superman is like. Using long expired stereotypes from the 60's and 70's... Most of the 'over the top' craziness just isn't there anymore. They have toned him down considerably. People who like Thor really shouldn't 'dislike' Superman.

  25. #25
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Gotta keep the 'faster then a speeding bullet' thing. Otherwise he'd never get to the crime in time... What you describe is pretty much iconic superman since the 80's... Death of Superman was basically him being punched to Death by a Hulk clone.

    Some people are bored with Superman... but I think a lot more are bored with what they THINK Superman is like. Using long expired stereotypes from the 60's and 70's... Most of the 'over the top' craziness just isn't there anymore. They have toned him down considerably. People who like Thor really shouldn't 'dislike' Superman.
    He's still absurdly powerful, even in the New 52 (at least when Scott Lobdell was writing him).

    I don't think people are bored with him, I think that they don't know how to tell stories with Superman that can challenge him without resorting to the usual crutches of depowering him, magic, kryptonite or using someone just as powerful. Even Bruce Timm struggled with his ultra high power level in Justice League.

    I'd say the answer is to lower those levels to Thor-like scale.

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