Results 1 to 25 of 65

Thread: 4 horseman continuity with sculpting?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Heroic Warrior vid.tracey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    503

    4 horseman continuity with sculpting?

    Whilst checking out the reviews for NA he-man, overall I thought it was an excellent figure, I couldn't help but think there was something a bit off regarding the sculpt of the face and hands. Having looked at my other figures, I can see that it must be the same horseman that sculpted jitsu, Marlena and probably a few others.

    My problem is its clear another horseman did the face sculpts earlier in the line as the newer ones seem more thin and small compared to the more natural, round faces earlier.

    Going forward, I think it would be better for consistency that only one horseman does the face sculpts so they have a shared look, rather than having different looks. Does anyone else agree?
    Making sure the vintage line is fully reproduced in the classics line

    Positive trades; Nightcraw

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    258
    I like the variety. We're already buying what are essentially the same few action figures over and over, month after month, with different armor and heads. The ladies' face sculpts are always great, but they are all very similiar-- classically beautiful. Marlena's has some character to it. Same goes for Jitsu. He looks grizzled. I even like the more cartoony interpretations (clawful). One of my most anticipated characters is Plundor, though I know I'm in the minority on that one.

    Just my two cents. I can understand a desire for consistence as well. It drives me nuts that many of the most beloved characters suffer from design flaws because they came out earlier in the line. The
    weak ankles, bobble heads, reversed fore-arms and stiffer clothes and loin clothes that hindered articulation---while newer, more obscure characters have zero QC issues (FFM!). It also still bugs me that
    girls don't get an ab crunch. Females can bend at the waste-- that's not just a guy thing!

  3. #3
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A Damn Mitten....
    Posts
    6,511
    This is stupid to me as well, I think He-Man should be consistently sculpted as He-Man with the same exact face sculpt, I mean fat, skinny, in between your face unless your an alcoholic or on drugs will predominately stay the same your whole adult life....

    All the previous He-Man heads (even Adams) are the same, even the PD He-Man, and he's wearing a mask....and here we have 2 newer He-Man figures that don't share the same feel, and are supposed to be the same guy.

    And in my opinion whoever the "5th" Horseman is that they let sculpt....they should stop it.... Fisto's head (and maybe Bow) is the best thing he's done, and even that has issues I can't unsee (his sunken in eye sockets with what looks like bug eyes on top of them), and I actually like Fisto's head. Jitsu's head is too small, jawline too big, NA He-Man's head is not right, Icarius looks too much like Val Kilmer.

    And don't get me started on the hands....Bow's and NA He-Man's....I hate those huge ass HULK SMASH hands on He-Man, they're disproportionate and are too big for the figure, and sadly Whichever He-Man figures come after I know will likely get those stupid things....which will make me dislike the figures. I don't know who sculpted the hands, but I doubt it was the same regular Horsemen that did the original hands, because they are all proportionate and look well done.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarliehog View Post
    I like the variety. We're already buying what are essentially the same few action figures over and over, month after month, with different armor and heads. The ladies' face sculpts are always great, but they are all very similiar-- classically beautiful. Marlena's has some character to it. Same goes for Jitsu. He looks grizzled. I even like the more cartoony interpretations (clawful). One of my most anticipated characters is Plundor, though I know I'm in the minority on that one.

    Just my two cents. I can understand a desire for consistence as well. It drives me nuts that many of the most beloved characters suffer from design flaws because they came out earlier in the line. The
    weak ankles, bobble heads, reversed fore-arms and stiffer clothes and loin clothes that hindered articulation---while newer, more obscure characters have zero QC issues (FFM!). It also still bugs me that
    girls don't get an ab crunch. Females can bend at the waste-- that's not just a guy thing!
    I don't think the Females look that much alike at all, Maybe Marlena & Catra more so than anyone else. My biggest gripe is that other than her white Frosta is perfect, she even has brand new thighs that have a butt sculpted on them, yet.....we still have the same old ass thighs for everyone else....TOD Sorceress, Netossa....etc, and they are still using the stupid lame ass non articulated ones on newer figures, even though they "corrected" it for TOD Sorceress, they went right back ahead and used them on Sherrilyn....very stupid, and very inconsistent. They need new thighs, and to make the Women correctly....Ab crunches would be nice for once, the Females always appear very stiff and often seem unposable. Plus the new Females are still very plagued by weak joint issues and Bobble heads, even though they are using new neck pegs....Sherrilyn has a very bad bobble head, and her arm joints are somewhat loose....yet 9/10 of the new Males are coming out nice and tight....ummm, I see issues here and a trend that's never been fixed.

    I know many of these issues are not the Horsemen, but a crap ass design team within Mattel....Who's biggest mistakes so far has been intentionally swapping Stinkor's forearms & doing what they did to Sorceress when there were other things they could have done (such as treat Sorceress' wings like a cape, and fix it like they did Shadow Weaver's cape....hmmm, hers worked....her wings are not wings as her Human form, it's more a cape that's attached at her shoulders all the way down to her wrists, and doing so i the figure with a softer material would have resulted in a perfect Sorceress, well that an actually being sculpted with an ass and the proper thighs.

    They sculpted Frosta with a proper butt through the thighs and her outfit....yet no one since her has been sculpted the same....I think the biggest Horsemen inconsistency is their lack of doing the female correctly, and varying from lady to lady how they do it....Despite Frosta's design flaws (Mattel did to her) she has the best and most correct figure of the Females.....while BG Teela has the worst IMO....and yet instead of continuing what they did with Frosta, they continue to sculpt the women like the line just started, and sculpt with the same old ass parts....Guys....sculpt the damn Women some new thighs....
    Recent....Flogg
    Coming....
    Wanted....Entrapa, Light Hope, (A real) Filmation Hordak & Clawful
    Considering....
    Needed....Dragstor

    Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....

    Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!

  4. #4
    Heroic Hero Grayskull's Heir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Castle Grayskull
    Posts
    2,577
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post

    And in my opinion whoever the "5th" Horseman is that they let sculpt....they should stop it.... Fisto's head (and maybe Bow) is the best thing he's done, and even that has issues I can't unsee (his sunken in eye sockets with what looks like bug eyes on top of them), and I actually like Fisto's head. Jitsu's head is too small, jawline too big, NA He-Man's head is not right, Icarius looks too much like Val Kilmer.

    And don't get me started on the hands....Bow's and NA He-Man's....I hate those huge ass HULK SMASH hands on He-Man, they're disproportionate and are too big for the figure, and sadly Whichever He-Man figures come after I know will likely get those stupid things....which will make me dislike the figures. I don't know who sculpted the hands, but I doubt it was the same regular Horsemen that did the original hands, because they are all proportionate and look well done.
    Just wondering, do we know for sure which heads etc were sculpted by the 5th Horseman? Or are people just assuming that these figures must have been done by him because of the issues?
    Awesome sticker included!

  5. #5
    Heroic Warrior Cottonwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    106
    I love most of the MOTUC sculpts to the point of masterpieces, but the squeezed head Jitsu and the bug eyed Frosta heads really bother me as an artist. Some of the women's face just seem cruel looking (Marlena)...
    NA He-man's swollen jaw is a bummer, but the face has a better grimace than the MOTUC He-man.Less rubbery looking.
    Fantastical!

  6. #6
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A Damn Mitten....
    Posts
    6,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    Just wondering, do we know for sure which heads etc were sculpted by the 5th Horseman? Or are people just assuming that these figures must have been done by him because of the issues?
    That I know of, officially (no hearing of, or speculation) he did, Fisto, Icarius & Jitsu, not sure who else he officially did, but I know for fact those 3. I'm sure he did a few more, but I also can only look at and inspect the ones I personally own, and know what I saw as official news. And out of the 63 I now own, I see his work in two of those 3....(Fisto & Jitsu)
    Recent....Flogg
    Coming....
    Wanted....Entrapa, Light Hope, (A real) Filmation Hordak & Clawful
    Considering....
    Needed....Dragstor

    Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....

    Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!

  7. #7
    NA mini-sub Supporter ! Arkangel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    3,911
    I'm not sure this is an artist fault, when you check the prototypes, everything looks nifty and fine.

  8. #8
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    7,634
    Yeah I think the head shrunk during production.

  9. #9
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A Damn Mitten....
    Posts
    6,511
    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    Yeah I think the head shrunk during production.
    That's somewhat the excuse they used for the original Ken doll....
    Recent....Flogg
    Coming....
    Wanted....Entrapa, Light Hope, (A real) Filmation Hordak & Clawful
    Considering....
    Needed....Dragstor

    Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....

    Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!

  10. #10
    Gimme Granita! Scorpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    7,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
    I'm not sure this is an artist fault, when you check the prototypes, everything looks nifty and fine.
    Agreed. The problems come when Mattel design/assembly get their hands on them. The Four Horsemen are the best contributors to the line IMO - just imagine what we'd get if *their* sculpts were off!
    Most-wanted MOTUC: Granita - Hunga the Harpy - Spinnerella - Melaktha - Vultak - Dylamug - Crita - Mermista Sprag, Sprocker and Spritina

  11. #11
    eyecandy from outerspace JoeyCruel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Hobb's End
    Posts
    2,285
    Another "problem" for me it's the fact that the sculpts for the faces are too different... they have to decide between extra reality or extra toysh look...
    Just compare the head of Duncan and the head of Jitsu. They got the same age but they look so different... If you look at the Jitsu head from Kosse, you can see how the style is similar the Duncan.
    I don't care if a head is similar to the toy, I care about the coherence with the 2008/2009/2010 releases!
    I know 2 angels: their names are Jedi_Kunle and Mikethedrummer!

    Worship the Snake Goddess!
    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...-at-some-point

    Round 2, vote for
    Tuvar, Baddrah, Crita, Granita, Gray, Colonel Blast and the Snake Goddess

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,340
    I agree, that a few heads, like Jitsu and NA He-Man look off due different reasons. Mostly the human characters are more difficult to sculpt, Inwonder how Ninjor will look like in comparison to Jitsu?

  13. #13
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,560
    I agree, consistency is a key factor in any great figure line.

    I'd like to have Marzo in my collection but I don't because the head/hair is too exaggerated/stylized despite the consistent proportions.

    Jitsu's head is too exaggerated AND too small but he's such a core character, I can't not have him in the collection. (Working on a custom solution to this.)

    King He-Man's head is so small and doesn't resemble He-Man so much so that I replaced it. (And most if his body...check the blog soon to see what I did.)

    Now, there is so much that I love about this NA He-Man but his head being slightly too small keeps him at "great" and prevents him from being "fantastic." And yes, I wish the facial features more closely resembled the original sculpt, but in this case I don't mind it as much because unlike King He-Man, it has expression.

    The size/stylization is due to the sculptor, and if he/she is truly a pro, there's no reason he/she can't more closely match the original size and likenesses. (They take original cast parts and sculpt on top of them to make new parts all the time to save time and money.) In this case they need to check their artistic license at the door (as all of us artists must) when they are doing work for hire in a line that has an established style.

    (FYI, in a previous Ask Matty, I asked if Jitsu's head suffered from production shrink and Scott said "no.")
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Posted from iOS app

  14. #14
    Heroic Warrior cobrakahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    EAST COAST.
    Posts
    173
    It could be way worse. I know this is supposed to be a high end collector line but lets face it. Mattel treats the property like it would any other brand. Also all the MYP figures are a little off too. When you start comparing Chief Carnivorous to Claw full Gygor to Slush Head we are talking different styles.

    But on a case to case situation I am glad they made the decisions they did. I would hate a ultra realistic Clawful and I would have no clue if they tried to put Chief Carnivorous or Count Marzo in the time machine.

  15. #15
    I'm Anime Hyper-Detailed Battle_Brak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,280
    I pretty much wish all of the heads were sculpted by the "5th Horsemen." They definitely have more realism and character than the more toy-like heads that came earlier in the line. Crooked jaw aside I think the NA He-Man head sculpt is superior to the other three. It feels more natural, is more appropriately proportioned (if these are indeed larger than life warriors in the six inch scale as Matty claim), and just looks more like the classic toy face. Also, one of the Horsemen (and not to bash because they are all extremely talented sculptors) has a tendency to sculpt very flat and unnatural faces. It's most noticeable on the females, and it's always bothered me. I know a lot of people hate the Frosta face, and I can see where they are coming from, but it at least has some curvature, dimension, and character to it.
    Check out my various dinosaur sculptures: http://he-man.org/forums/boards/show...re-in-progress

  16. #16
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A Damn Mitten....
    Posts
    6,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    I pretty much wish all of the heads were sculpted by the "5th Horsemen." They definitely have more realism and character than the more toy-like heads that came earlier in the line. Crooked jaw aside I think the NA He-Man head sculpt is superior to the other three. It feels more natural, is more appropriately proportioned (if these are indeed larger than life warriors in the six inch scale as Matty claim), and just looks more like the classic toy face. Also, one of the Horsemen (and not to bash because they are all extremely talented sculptors) has a tendency to sculpt very flat and unnatural faces. It's most noticeable on the females, and it's always bothered me. I know a lot of people hate the Frosta face, and I can see where they are coming from, but it at least has some curvature, dimension, and character to it.
    If all the heads were sculpted by that 5th guy, I wouldn't be in this line, I don't like but one of them, and I still feel it's very off looking....I like the heads that 9/10 of the line has, a good mix between toyish and real....these other couple heads looks too off, I don't like the hyper detail that these heads have compared to the rest, the sculpting needs to be left to the regular Horsemen....

    I'm also sure this guy is responsible for the huge ass new hands that Bow and NA He-Man have.....I really don't like them one bit.
    Recent....Flogg
    Coming....
    Wanted....Entrapa, Light Hope, (A real) Filmation Hordak & Clawful
    Considering....
    Needed....Dragstor

    Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....

    Check here for my My collection page, MOTU and more!

  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior nicholighkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    At the feet of Christ
    Posts
    2,270
    I agree to a lesser extent with the head sculpts, but I do agree. The hands are what really get to me. Each finger is exactly the same size. Uuuum, that's anatomy 101, each finger is a differing length than the others. The freaking pinky is as big as the middle finger for craps sake. If they re-use this hand in the future I'll be pretty upset.

  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior Pegasuslb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    111
    Amen brother.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    If all the heads were sculpted by that 5th guy, I wouldn't be in this line, I don't like but one of them, and I still feel it's very off looking....I like the heads that 9/10 of the line has, a good mix between toyish and real....these other couple heads looks too off, I don't like the hyper detail that these heads have compared to the rest, the sculpting needs to be left to the regular Horsemen....

    I'm also sure this guy is responsible for the huge ass new hands that Bow and NA He-Man have.....I really don't like them one bit.
    "I've lost something. I don't know what it is, but I know I haven't always felt this... sedated" - Lester Burnham

  19. #19
    I'm Anime Hyper-Detailed Battle_Brak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,280
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    If all the heads were sculpted by that 5th guy, I wouldn't be in this line, I don't like but one of them, and I still feel it's very off looking....I like the heads that 9/10 of the line has, a good mix between toyish and real....these other couple heads looks too off, I don't like the hyper detail that these heads have compared to the rest, the sculpting needs to be left to the regular Horsemen....

    I'm also sure this guy is responsible for the huge ass new hands that Bow and NA He-Man have.....I really don't like them one bit.
    Well different people have different tastes. Having seen a number of your posts, you and I are probably at opposite extremes on the spectrum of MOTU fandom. Plus I'm kind of a detail oriented artist. I like detail, I like realism, but I can tolerate interesting stylization as well, though I know that's all subjective. You said the heads have a good mix of real and toyish, and I see what you mean, but to me a good mix is as real and or detailed as possible to as little toy-like as possible (given that it IS a toy ). So the doll faces certain characters have really don't work for me, and the flat faced large chinned females just look wrong. Then again it's just one thing on a long list of things I would change about the aesthetic of this line. I love having all the characters in one line and one coherent look, but the look they chose is just not my ideal I guess.

    Oh and I agree the hands are awkward on Bow and NA He-Man. they are a bit too big and far too blocky. There are also a few characters that have really short thumbs although I can't remember which ones at the moment.
    Check out my various dinosaur sculptures: http://he-man.org/forums/boards/show...re-in-progress

  20. #20
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    The Woodlands,Tx
    Posts
    9,705
    I'm a big proponent of consistency (the reason I don't care about Filmation versions of characters we have and why I would prefer any potential film-based variants look like the toy and not the actor in likeness). That said, I don't have much of a problem with these issues so far.
    Not to sound like a creepy cheerleader for Uki, but it's nice to know there is at least one person on this forum who is extremely positive & friendly all the time. I don't think I could be that nice even if you paid me. If we ever give out awards for "forum member of the month", Uki gets my vote. -Mr. Shokoti

    Subscribe for MOTUC 2015!!!

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodach View Post
    What I don't like about the NA He-man head is the ****-eyed jawline. This is not a sculpting issue but a molding issue. I wish they could have fixed it.
    I'm pretty certain it was the sculpt and not production as the jawline issue is visible, albeit slightly hidden, on the helmeted head as well.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Posted from iOS app

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •