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Thread: 4 horseman continuity with sculpting?

  1. #26
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    I understand. I've warmed up to the line quite a bit since it came out. If you see some of my posts when it was first revealed I was absolutely disgusted with the aesthetic of this line. I probably swore I'd never pay a cent for this garbage or some other hyperbole . If King Grayskull hadn't been the first figure (and was the only figure I bought up until He-Ro was revealed) they probably wouldn't have hooked me.
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    I remember those early times where 200X fans repeatedly clashed with Vintage fans. While I thought it was good to get the original versions, I didn't understand why we couldn't have gotten their 200X incarnations until later. It felt like quite a step back to return to vintage designs from 200X. I remember when Skeletor was revealed. I hated him.

    Like Battle Brak, I've also warmed up to the Classic designs, although I would rather see improvements and innovations rather than sculpting the exact same figure all over and adding in modern articulation. Thanks to that head, Jits is now one of my favorites. I do agree about how the He-Man heads aren't consistent, but that's something that Mattel could EASILY rectify since the heads are removable.

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  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior Nekk-ra's Avatar
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    Actually, Frosta's sculpt isn't bad at all; it's the paint apps that are poorly done.

    And the only thing that bothers me about the Jitsu and NA He-man heads are those strange 'bumps' along the jawline. I don't know if that is in the sculpt itself or it's a bad translation from prototype to production figure. I do know that it makes what would be a decent head sculpt look really strange and ill-proportioned.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I'm a big proponent of consistency (the reason I don't care about Filmation versions of characters we have and why I would prefer any potential film-based variants look like the toy and not the actor in likeness). That said, I don't have much of a problem with these issues so far.
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  4. #29
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    The 4HM are anle to nail a human character, like MAA or Tri Klops... I still think Jitsu suffers from the sculpt, he doesn't fell like the Jitsu I saw in the mini comic...

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zodach View Post
    What I don't like about the NA He-man head is the ****-eyed jawline. This is not a sculpting issue but a molding issue. I wish they could have fixed it.
    I'm pretty certain it was the sculpt and not production as the jawline issue is visible, albeit slightly hidden, on the helmeted head as well.
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  6. #31
    Heroic Fan ART Mod! JafariStew's Avatar
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    Take a look at Count Marzo's Jaw Line or compare Adora's hands to each other and tell me there are not occasional sculpting issues...
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  7. #32
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    Marzo's armor design is assymetrical, too. It happens. In a diorama though, all the pickiness gets lost, so that's good for me. :-)

    I love how the "Fifth Horsemen" can sculpt a butt on a female. Thank goodness!! Teela is jealous. And at least these guys are open to feedback. Let them know what you think. I am reading complaints about NA He-Man's hands (and honestly, people have different-sized hands, so no biggie for me), but now I am seeing Bow thrown in the mix. Was this mentioned when Bow came out? I remember the fuss over the obvious NA He-Man tooling on Bow, but little else.

  8. #33
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    It was stated somewhere that he sculpted Frosta and I'm fairly certain he did Clamp Champ as well.
    I don't see the flaws in Frosta that I see in his other heads, but I do know Frosta had like 2 or 3 head / face designs including the final one we got, it's possible he sculpted one of those. But I don't believe he did the final one, she looks much like the previous Females in the line.

    And If he did Clamp Champ, so far it's only a prototype, so it's hard to tell, And it looks as if it may actually be one of the only 2 heads of his I like, the rest, to me I don't.
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  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior sirsniffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    I don't see the flaws in Frosta that I see in his other heads
    I do. She has too many lines and harsh angles to her face. Laugh lines around her nose and mouth, she has huge bulging eyes and asymetrical eyebrows. Filmation Frosta was really beautiful and had fine features, this sculpt makes her look deranged.

    Compare Frosta to Adora, Starla, Netossa, even She-Ra..you will see that Frosta is not as pretty. Whoever sculpted her was trying hard to capture her Filmation look, but you can tell they usually sculpt those harsh faces like you find on Spawn figures...jagged lines, pointed cheekbones, cleft chins, wrinkles, etc...they didn't know how to do smooth, and soft female faces.

    Also, whoever did her hair did her a great disservice by making it asymetrical, it looks pretty rough. Add to this the bad paint apps, translucent dark hair, well...this is probably one the second worst female figure. Shield Maiden Sherilyn being the absolute worst female figure IMO.

  10. #35
    I'm Anime Hyper-Detailed Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsniffy View Post
    I do. She has too many lines and harsh angles to her face. Laugh lines around her nose and mouth, she has huge bulging eyes and asymetrical eyebrows. Filmation Frosta was really beautiful and had fine features, this sculpt makes her look deranged.
    Yup, she looks like an actual human being rather than a creepy featureless robot. She's probably my favorite female face sculpt in the line, although Netossa is also up there.

  11. #36
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsniffy View Post
    I do. She has too many lines and harsh angles to her face. Laugh lines around her nose and mouth, she has huge bulging eyes and asymetrical eyebrows. Filmation Frosta was really beautiful and had fine features, this sculpt makes her look deranged.

    Compare Frosta to Adora, Starla, Netossa, even She-Ra..you will see that Frosta is not as pretty. Whoever sculpted her was trying hard to capture her Filmation look, but you can tell they usually sculpt those harsh faces like you find on Spawn figures...jagged lines, pointed cheekbones, cleft chins, wrinkles, etc...they didn't know how to do smooth, and soft female faces.

    Also, whoever did her hair did her a great disservice by making it asymetrical, it looks pretty rough. Add to this the bad paint apps, translucent dark hair, well...this is probably one the second worst female figure. Shield Maiden Sherilyn being the absolute worst female figure IMO.
    I have compared Frosta to the others, and in my opinion, she looks just fine along side of them, in fact Frosta is only second to Teela in my opinion....then Sorceress, I don't see all the lines you say are there, no more or less than any of the other Females....

    I can find all kinds of issues with any given figure I don't like, it's easy when you dislike something so much....and I do however agree with Sherrilyn being one of the worst if not the worst, I also don't like The Star Sisters or BG Teela.

    I also don't have issues with her paint apps or her hair. I would have loved her to be the correct white she should have been, but she looks just fine on my shelf with all of the others in my collection. I think Frosta gets too much hate due to poor choices on Mattel's part.

    The only thing I see about Frosta is the fact she has eyes, and not flat spots that are simply painted in.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; May 22, 2013 at 09:10pm.
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  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior Slave2Evil_Lyn's Avatar
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    Jitsu is one of my lest favorite figures, due to his head, it's overly detailed compared to the rest of the line. The 5th Horsemen does great work not doubt about it. It just doesn't work with what we've already gotten in the line.

    As for NA He-Man, there is no reason his face should look so different from the standard He-Man. I also don't understand what's going on with his protruding jaw on the one side. I was not looking forward to this figure anyway but the head sculpt doesn't help change my mind.
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  13. #38
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    Jitsu is one of my lest favorite figures, due to his head, it's overly detailed compared to the rest of the line. The 5th Horsemen does great work not doubt about it. It just doesn't work with what we've already gotten in the line.

    As for NA He-Man, there is no reason his face should look so different from the standard He-Man. I also don't understand what's going on with his protruding jaw on the one side. I was not looking forward to this figure anyway but the head sculpt doesn't help change my mind.
    I like Jitsu, he's grown on me, but I can still see his head issues....I've even posted pics in comparison to MAA & He-Man, the size difference and style difference is very noticeable, yet some still don't see it.

    As far as Na He-Man goes....I feel the same way about him....and the head is one thing, then I can't stand the disproportionate hands....that makes him even worse to me. Also the "Aloft" position makes it look as if he's once broken his wrist and it set way wrong. Doesn't look like a very natural pose to me at all. I like most of the Vintage He-Man variants, and even like King He-Man (despite his face not looking like He-Man) But NA is one, I can't get into at all.

    I could live with him, and his band style armor (and just swap out his Power Sword with an extra TP He-Man sword I have), and just swap the head with my Prince Adam He-Man head, but the hands put him way over the top for me in the dislike category, and are something I don't have spares of to swap out.

    So as was my original intention, I'll be selling him off.
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  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior King Tamusk's Avatar
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    The heads I dislike the most all seem to have similar characteristics and style, so I am assuming they were all sculpted by the same artist; Jitsu, Frosta (doesn't look like her to me), Faceless one, New Adventures He-Man, King He-Man, Vykron, Castle Grayskullman. They all have weird things going on with their jaws, the eyes are typically closer together, the heads are smaller in proportion to the body, and the lips and mouth structure are the same.

    Now, some of the prototypes do look a lot better than the final results, so if can be an engineering thing. BUT, I do find it more than a coincidence that it usually happens with this particular artists work, again and again.

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior hopewell's Avatar
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    I notice some lack of consistency. I avoided Jitsu because of the little head with lots more detail. I'm also not a fan of Fisto's head either. But my biggest gripe is Marlena's solid black eyes...I mean does this not bug anyone else?

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Jitsu bothers me every time I see him. I could live with the detailed sculpt but the head is so small it looks like he has some kind of disorder.

    Fisto's head is a bit too small (narrow, especially) as well, but not as bad as Jitsu. Also, neither of them really resemble the vintage toy at all from the neck up. 200x Fisto's head actually looks closer to vintage than Classics does. At least they got the hair color right.

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  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior vid.tracey's Avatar
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    Thank goodness I'm not the only one. Hate having to be critical of this line but I agree with the other poster that I don't understand why the original head and hands weren't just modified or sculpted on top of.

    I also think the poster who posted the comparison pictures illustrated my point better than I did with those photos.
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  18. #43
    eyecandy from outerspace JoeyCruel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    As for NA He-Man, there is no reason his face should look so different from the standard He-Man. I also don't understand what's going on with his protruding jaw on the one side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    the "Aloft" position makes it look as if he's once broken his wrist and it set way wrong. Doesn't look like a very natural pose to me at all.
    I totally agree!
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  19. #44
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopewell View Post
    I notice some lack of consistency. I avoided Jitsu because of the little head with lots more detail. I'm also not a fan of Fisto's head either. But my biggest gripe is Marlena's solid black eyes...I mean does this not bug anyone else?
    No, you're not only one, everyone else seems to have regular looking colored eyes, Marlena has only her pupils....must have been the long trip from Earth to Eternia....not to mention, she seems to be looking to see if her tiara is on straight.

    How hard is it to paint dots in the center of the eyes? I mean I'm sure a machine does the eyes, so how damn hard is it?

    Marlena, He-Ro, TMNT Classics Donatello.... (I'm sure there are other Classics I am not thinking of right now) etc.... I mean come on, center the damn eyes already.
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  20. #45
    Heroic Warrior Swanmarsh's Avatar
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    I like the fact Mattel have not been consistent with NA 'He-Man' head sculpt. It is proof enough for me that even in Classics NA He-Man is not the real He-Man. The 4H couldn't bring themselves to produce him with the real He-Man head. This figure stays in his white mailer box.
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  21. #46
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    got to the love the first world problem topics
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  22. #47
    In disguise! Barbecue17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    got to the love the first world problem topics
    So discussing differences in sculpting on MOTUC figures on a MOTU related board is somehow worthy of being dismissed as "first world problems?" Do tell then what exactly folks should be discussing on the boards.

    On topic, I can't say there have been many headsculpts in the line I haven't liked, although I'm probably in the minority as King He-Man, Count Marzo, Jitsu, and Fisto have been some of my favorite headsculpts in the line (although there's plenty of others I like as well, such as Ram-Man. About the only head sculpt I actively dislike is Clawful's.

    Personally, I felt with Marlena that they were trying to give her a very Filmation like vibe with the augmented eyes. Space Marlena is one of my favorite figures, but the eyes are really different. I loved Lizard Man, but I'm always concerned of figures that might be crossing the line into "too cartoonish". So far, I can't think of any that have gotten there yet. I do dislike the way that the EP Randor used bright yellow for gold to match the Filmation look, as I felt it was out of place in a line that regularly uses metallic hues, but the reused head was fine.
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  23. #48
    Punish-Or jerec350's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of NA He-Man to begin with but that jaw line on him is horrendous looking. I'm a complete-ist so I'll keep him but when it comes to figures that have multiple display options I like to get two so now my dilemma is 1 or 2.
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  24. #49
    Lightning League Leader kylun flac's Avatar
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    you guys make a good argument! I like both. but yeah the more nostalgic is the way to go.
    as for jitsu i prefer this newer version.
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  25. #50
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    got to the love the first world problem topics
    Meanwhile everyone else is on topic....not just trying to increase their post count....

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanmarsh View Post
    I like the fact Mattel have not been consistent with NA 'He-Man' head sculpt. It is proof enough for me that even in Classics NA He-Man is not the real He-Man. The 4H couldn't bring themselves to produce him with the real He-Man head. This figure stays in his white mailer box.
    This could be true....it could explain everything

    And while I believe I can sell him, unlike Karatti....if I can't, like Karatti, he'll stay mailered in my collection too, far from sight. Or my son might just have a new He-Man to beat around.
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