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Thread: So Scott Neitlich has an end game in sight> 2015 is the 'wrap up'?

  1. #76
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Actually the females have often been more expensive needing a lot of new parts. Almost
    every POP gal has unique arm bands and boots (not to mention the occasional tail or
    wings for quite a few of em!) - just saying from a visual stand point. Three alone have giant wings!
    Well THAT ought to energize the PoP fan base!
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  2. #77
    Evil Titan of Industry melmoth666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    You have been forecasting bad things and danger for about 2 years at this point

    For the record I think Scott is talking about getting all the vintage figures out by 2015, then going on with other figures (be in mini comic, concept, etc) until there is no longer interest or sales to justify moving foward
    EXACTLY. The biggest danger to the line is really only price and, to a lesser degree, character selection. The QC issues seem to have stopped as of last year. 2013 has been an AWESOME year for figs...Octavia, FangMan, Jitsu, Ram Man are some of the most amazing figures in the line, and honestly I had no interest in Octavia until I got her in my hands...

    If the prices keep increasing ala shipping there may be a big drop-off and as we finish the vintage line and POP we may see the end of the line, but all this gloom and doom talk is way too premature and is pretty consistent with the past 2 years of mattel's sub or die business model.
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  3. #78
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoth666 View Post
    EXACTLY. The biggest danger to the line is really only price and, to a lesser degree, character selection. The QC issues seem to have stopped as of last year. 2013 has been an AWESOME year for figs...Octavia, FangMan, Jitsu, Ram Man are some of the most amazing figures in the line, and honestly I had no interest in Octavia until I got her in my hands...

    If the prices keep increasing ala shipping there may be a big drop-off and as we finish the vintage line and POP we may see the end of the line, but all this gloom and doom talk is way too premature and is pretty consistent with the past 2 years of mattel's sub or die business model.
    Price is the BIGGEST obstacle esp for getting the international fans on board, shipping has increased dramatically not to mention Digital River doesn't charge by weight they charge per item so we REALLY get hit bad. esp adding to that shipping times and customs fees, collecting this line hurts a lot.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Actually the females have often been more expensive needing a lot of new parts. Almost
    every POP gal has unique arm bands and boots (not to mention the occasional tail or
    wings for quite a few of em!) - just saying from a visual stand point. Three alone have giant wings!
    Sweet Bee, Angella, and Flutterina. I hope we see 'em all in the next two years!

  5. #80
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    The female figures are cheaper to produce than the male figures.

    If Scott doesn't finish up vintage motu AND pop, he will go down as yet another brand manager who couldn't get it done.

    I think he's stubborn enough, and ambitious enough, to make it happen.

    I also believe there is enough interest. There will have to be a price hike in 2015, but it will still be comparable to a lot of other collector lines.

    However, if POP isn't finished in this line, I may be turned off by Mattel for the long haul.

    Actually the females have often been more expensive needing a lot of new parts. Almost
    every POP gal has unique arm bands and boots (not to mention the occasional tail or
    wings for quite a few of em!) - just saying from a visual stand point. Three alone have giant wings!
    I'm just going by what one of the horsemen said last year.

    The females use less plastic. And considering the fact that the figures's heads now sport holes underneath (a cost saving measure; and a clever one to be sure), I assume that less plastic does lower the cost.

    Now, so far we haven't had figures with wings . Hopefully we will.

    I imagine Octavia was a budget challenge.

    She has that hole in her head to reduce the plastic... And the plastic feels a bit different than say Fang Man or Snake Face when it comes to quality. But she was an ambitious project. And she came out rather nicely!

    I just think you can make it happen, Scott.

    It's not great to read on the subscription page, and in your recent comments, that statement about wrapping up the "vintage line," as opposed to your comments over the last year that said you'd be wrapping up the "vintage motu and pop lineS with key filmation characters."

    It makes many of us nervous.

    But as far as reused parts go:

    - You have a good amount of reusable parts banked (various pelvis pieces, various bust/upper torsos, hair molds that can be reused or slightly modified, thighs, feet, hands, biceps, shoulders, shields)

    - Netossa's forearms and boots can and should be reused for Peekablue

    - Spinnerella & Flutterina share parts in much the same way

    - Sweet Bee and Double Trouble can as well (boots, forearms)

    There is quite a lot of part sharing to be found.

    That makes things a bit less daunting.

    But I just hope that my loyalty to this line, and my hopes of having a complete collection when it comes to vintage motu and vintage pop, won't be for nothing.

    I truly am one of those who loves both lines equally. I really need to see them finished. I have faith you can make that happen!
    Last edited by bcrduke; June 21, 2013 at 01:19pm.
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    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    I'm just going by what one of the horsemen said last year.

    The females use less plastic. And considering the fact that the figures's heads now sport holes underneath (a cost saving measure; and a clever one to be sure), I assume that less plastic does lower the cost.
    Just because they use less plastics means next to nothing. The actual material cost is negligible compared to the price of the molds. A mold for a piece like wings, boots, arm band, etc. runs hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is called "tooling cost." They try to spread that cost out over the whole line (which is why figures with more tooling are priced the same as figures like SOH with no new tooling).
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    I'm just going by what one of the horsemen said last year.

    The females use less plastic. And considering the fact that the figures's heads now sport holes underneath (a cost saving measure; and a clever one to be sure), I assume that less plastic does lower the cost.

    Now, so far we haven't had figures with wings . Hopefully we will.

    I imagine Octavia was a budget challenge.

    She has that hole in her head to reduce the plastic... And the plastic feels a bit different than say Fang Man or Snake Face when it comes to quality. But she was an ambitious project. And she came out rather nicely!

    I just think you can make it happen, Scott.

    It's not great to read on the subscription page, and in your recent comments, that statement about wrapping up the "vintage line," as opposed to your comments over the last year that said you'd be wrapping up the "vintage motu and pop lineS with key filmation characters."

    It makes many of us nervous.

    But as far as reused parts go:

    - You have a good amount of reusable parts banked (various pelvis pieces, various bust/upper torsos, hair molds that can be reused or slightly modified, thighs, feet, hands, biceps, shoulders, shields)

    - Netossa's forearms and boots can and should be reused for Peekablue

    - Spinnerella & Flutterina share parts in much the same way

    - Sweet Bee and Double Trouble can as well (boots, forearms)

    There is quite a lot of part sharing to be found.

    That makes things a bit less daunting.

    But I just hope that my loyalty to this line, and my hopes of having a complete collection when it comes to vintage motu and vintage pop, won't be for nothing.

    I truly am one of those who loves both lines equally. I really need to see them finished. I have faith you can make that happen!
    I'm with you on this! And don't forget, Angella and Glimmer have virtually identical costumes in the cartoon, just different colors. These ladies are far too important to the mythos to pass up, and as a fan I'd be willing to bend a bit on some of the existing parts being used to bring about some of these ladies.
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  8. #83
    Evil and Reads Everything Straight Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    But as far as reused parts go:
    - Netossa's forearms and boots can and should be reused for Peekablue
    - Spinnerella & Flutterina share parts in much the same way
    - Sweet Bee and Double Trouble can as well (boots, forearms)
    That's still 3 females that need new boots and gloves (a telltale sign of how expensive those are is how often we see strange reuse of arms and legs, where a character really should have brand new sculpting. If it's more than a head and a tunic, it's in that expensive range of being "fully tooled".

    So we need to get 2 more fully tooled Great Rebellion figures in the next 2 years in order to have the 6 characters listed above. That *seems* doable, but that still doesn't get us to a full set.

    Are there really enough Ninjors and Tung Lashors left to offset 4 or 5 fully tooled POP girls?
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  9. #84
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  10. #85
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    I'm just going by what one of the horsemen said last year.

    The females use less plastic. And considering the fact that the figures's heads now sport holes underneath (a cost saving measure; and a clever one to be sure), I assume that less plastic does lower the cost.
    Just because they use less plastics means next to nothing. The actual material cost is negligible compared to the price of the molds. A mold for a piece like wings, boots, arm band, etc. runs hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is called "tooling cost." They try to spread that cost out over the whole line (which is why figures with more tooling are priced the same as figures like SOH with no new tooling).
    Believe me, I'm aware that tooling costs are the main problem.

    But almost every figure has new tooling costs. It's the difference in the amount of materials used, and the quality of the materials that I'm wondering about when it comes to balancing the budget. There have been figures that felt less sturdy than others.

    Also, The men reuse parts more now, and are cheaper as a result, because more of them have been made along the way... Had more women been made earlier in the line, new tooling might not be as big an issue as it might be now.

    Then again, the following men would be expensive.., probably more so than any pop female:

    Modulok
    Multi-Bot
    Blast Attack
    Rio Blast
    Gwildor
    Extendar
    Rotar
    Twistoid
    Sssqueeze
    Lizard Man

    So it's not like the pop ladies are going to be walking away with any "Most Expensive Tooling Cost" awards
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    Also Tallstar's hair can be reused for glimmer and if they want to be that cheap about it, just put the tiara thingy on her and reuse the whole head??? Pelvis and bodice pieces really should not be holding Glimmer and Angella back, and for the love of God just use Hawkgirls from DC universe wings or the Sorceress's wings for Angella, don't make it sound like their cost is why we haven't gotten them. But just wanted to point out that if the POP ladies don't sell then why is Castaspella pre-sold out on BBTS?
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  12. #87
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    I'd rather they reuse the She-Ra 1.0 boots and gauntlets on females than reuse hair! The individuality of the Filmation females' hair helps make them stand out as different from the rest. Glimmer's hair, for example, has much less volume than the ladies we've seen released thus far, while Peekablue's is shorter and has curls on the shoulders and Spinnerella has an amazing mauve 'fro!

    I like the toy details on gauntlets and boots etc. It makes the characters pop, but if I had to choose between these and different hair molds, I'd choose hair any day of the week.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    I'm just going by what one of the horsemen said last year.

    The females use less plastic. And considering the fact that the figures's heads now sport holes underneath (a cost saving measure; and a clever one to be sure), I assume that less plastic does lower the cost.

    Now, so far we haven't had figures with wings . Hopefully we will.

    I imagine Octavia was a budget challenge.

    She has that hole in her head to reduce the plastic... And the plastic feels a bit different than say Fang Man or Snake Face when it comes to quality. But she was an ambitious project. And she came out rather nicely!

    I just think you can make it happen, Scott.

    It's not great to read on the subscription page, and in your recent comments, that statement about wrapping up the "vintage line," as opposed to your comments over the last year that said you'd be wrapping up the "vintage motu and pop lineS with key filmation characters."

    It makes many of us nervous.

    But as far as reused parts go:

    - You have a good amount of reusable parts banked (various pelvis pieces, various bust/upper torsos, hair molds that can be reused or slightly modified, thighs, feet, hands, biceps, shoulders, shields)

    - Netossa's forearms and boots can and should be reused for Peekablue

    - Spinnerella & Flutterina share parts in much the same way

    - Sweet Bee and Double Trouble can as well (boots, forearms)

    There is quite a lot of part sharing to be found.

    That makes things a bit less daunting.

    But I just hope that my loyalty to this line, and my hopes of having a complete collection when it comes to vintage motu and vintage pop, won't be for nothing.

    I truly am one of those who loves both lines equally. I really need to see them finished. I have faith you can make that happen!
    I noticed the lighter heads via cutouts....Snake Face was the first, and then Ditztroyer, now Octavia....not to mention they cut the boot cut already....yet, still can't fix the damn loose ankles....and what's really funny is, every boot on the women is new now....so....Why can't they remove the peg holes and tighten the damn things up? If it's the reused feet, make new damn feet....

    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    Just because they use less plastics means next to nothing. The actual material cost is negligible compared to the price of the molds. A mold for a piece like wings, boots, arm band, etc. runs hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is called "tooling cost." They try to spread that cost out over the whole line (which is why figures with more tooling are priced the same as figures like SOH with no new tooling).
    Yeah Tooling cost is the highest cost of the production process....but they've already cut the boot cut and the women are much smaller then the men....therefore they can use less tooling than the larger figures....And while the clothes are usually new, and now the calves and boot parts, as well as head....the buck itself is usually the same underneath, thighs, crotches, biceps and shoulders, and a lot of times the gloves are reused from existing figures....

    And as far as plastic, yes, they use a lot less plastic....Octavia is an exception....

    And since I work in injection molding, I know plastic is an expense, maybe not as much as tooling...but....Why do you think we had the Blastic issue last year? It means enough when it comes to added cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Yeah Tooling cost is the highest cost of the production process....but they've already cut the boot cut and the women are much smaller then the men....therefore they can use less tooling than the larger figures....
    I don't think you understand how tooling works.
    The size doesn't matter, articulation doesn't matter either if it's a new piece it still requires tooling.
    As long as there are new pieces they need tooling, re-use of the buck and such have very little value as long as all the details have to be tooled.
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    See, this is where I think getting just a few NA would help balance the high cost of some of the remaining vintage stuff... Kayo, Visar, Nocturne, one or two of these guys wouldn't be too expensive, and would allow for the likes of Two Bad, Mermista, Blast Attack, Squeeze... But that may be where some mini comic characters come in too.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haradrel View Post
    I don't think you understand how tooling works.
    The size doesn't matter, articulation doesn't matter either if it's a new piece it still requires tooling.
    As long as there are new pieces they need tooling, re-use of the buck and such have very little value as long as all the details have to be tooled.
    Well, mold size play into it as well. If they can gang a bunch of smaller pieces into one mold, it can help cut costs. That and the tooling are still really darn expensive, no matter the size! But at least that's one way to reduce costs a tad in terms of new, smaller pieces.

  17. #92
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    As has been stated earlier, there's actually a lot of parts sharing in the vintage POP toy line. But if Mattel wants even more uses, why not just do a translucent "hide 'n seek" spirit figure of all the POP gals?
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Well, mold size play into it as well. If they can gang a bunch of smaller pieces into one mold, it can help cut costs. That and the tooling are still really darn expensive, no matter the size! But at least that's one way to reduce costs a tad in terms of new, smaller pieces.
    I doubt the size difference is that big between females and males here that it warrants any kind of difference in cost with extra items, because that really depends on the size of the items more than the figures. Pop figures have pretty big shields for the most part and fairly large weapons and whatnot.
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  19. #94
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    Mermista is a higher price point figure!
    Her tail alone with articulation will put her into a $30.00+ price point.
    She is going to be amazing! The 4H will be knocking this one out of the park!
    Fans are going to love this figure and be amazed at the final product!
    Smooth pelvis with NO pointy crotch skirt!

  20. #95
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Has there been some official talk of Mermista recently?
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    No, but logically speaking, she would need two lower torsos to be done proper justice, and do you think the 4H wouldn't do an amazing job with a mermaid action figure? Ideally, her tail would be articulated at the hip, knee and ankle area. But I would understand making the tail a static piece like Dana/Zuul from the ghostbusters line to save money, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd understand
    Last edited by Veronica Mars; June 23, 2013 at 09:04pm.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos*Major View Post
    Mermista is a higher price point figure!
    Nah, I don't think so. Her tail will most likely be ball-jointed at the hip, middle, and flipper. She'll need a new head, tunic, waist, and a couple of other pieces like accessories. Most of her upper body and her human legs can be reused from the other females.

    Mattel gave King Hiss an interchangeable torso, almost all new parts, and he was the same price as the other regular figures, There's no reason why Mermista should end up costing as much as the massive & totally unique Ram Man.

  23. #98
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    @verionica...i just...am going to say nothing to the solid piece idea...

    @rocketpunch...because she deserves every opportunity to be the #1 favorite female in the line...not that im baised, at all.

    @tallstar...yes there has been talk and Im making it offical!

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    I'm looking forward to seeing Queen Angella, Sweet Bee, Flutterina, Mermista, Peekablue and Scorpia in MOTUC.

    Along with all the other PoP characters who don't have wings or a tail, like Glimmer, Double Trouble, Entrapta, Spinnerella and Perfuma.

  25. #100
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    Entrapta is one I'm very anxious to see how they handle her. I'm on the fence about rooted hair, but maybe they could segment her hair and articulate it with ball joints? And I also wonder about Double Trouble, 2 heads or a drum like Man-E-Faces?

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