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Thread: Clamp Champ won't be available DOS

  1. #451
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    My point was that Mattel COULD keep DOS alive if they wanted to. As you have very aptly described, there are logical reasons why they don't. It is a CHOICE Mattel has made, not an economic necessity. So no more of this, "It can only work via the sub model." It should be stated as, "We're only interested in making MOTUC via the sub model." He-man is not all that important to Mattel. As your professor stated:

    "People will say all kinds of things are important, but it's what they spend their money on that tells you what's really important to them." And Mattel is proving how important MOTU is to them. They get legal claim to the money upfront.



    I don't think it's accurate to say people are complaining because they aren't being catered to because DOS is being killed off. First fact: this line is a collectors line. Second Fact: collectors want complete collections, whatever that means to them. 3rd Fact: people have invested hundreds and even thousands of dollars on a collector line they've always been able to buy DOS. 4th fact: Mattel is now changing the rules. So, people make a purchasing decision based on one set of rules (DOS is the standard) that is changed. Would those same people still start collecting if they knew that 2/3 of the way through they'd have to sub to get the figures? I bet some wouldn't, and so they have a right to be angry. It's not about being catered to.

    Also, if these were in fact, just toys, people would have dumped Mattel's sorry behind years ago. There is an emotional investment in most of the people who collect them. It's why Mattel can jerk us around pretty much all they want, do a poor job on QC, cut accessories, hire pretty much the worst fulfillment center in the business in DR, and still not loose all their customers. And there is a monetary value to that which I know you are aware of, called Goodwill. But it's really not about money - the fans care more about the property than their money, or else they'd keep the money. To reduce MOTU to a simple sum of cash, plastic and paint is to miss the bigger picture. Most of us are actually buying a feeling when we buy these toys, not a hunk of plastic. And the businesses know this, they capitalize on it. So it is worth being upset over. It's not worth losing yourselve over or being upset all the time, but Mattel deserves a good jab to the ribs for grabbing hold of our emotional strings, wringing cash out of us, and then dumping us at their easiest convenience.

    What makes Mattel heartless and greedy in some people's opinions is that they know we have an emtional attachment to these figures and they take advantage of that. Look, I quit the line because I realized it was my decision to continue to be in this dysfunctional relationship with Mattel. It was a big emotional kick in the gut, which is why I still come to the boards. But there are others who just can't cut the cord. It's like an addition to some (just ask them), and Mattel knows it. They've probably paid for research studies to see to what extent they can manipulate this aspect - I know other companies do.

    At the end of the day we can agree to disagree. I think some people just think nearly anything is fair game in the business world, and others don't. Some think money is more important, others think the values MOTU used to speak to are more important, and that a mutual feeling of goodwill and community are more important. There's practically no goodwill left between Mattel and much of its customer base. It's pretty much all gone.
    Wow,I think you are really reading way to much in to a toy line. You also act as if Mattel are the smartest entity to ever exist. Man,I just looked at all of my figures and said,wow,Mattel and toyguru have really come through,but also the org as well. They keep this alive.

    May I ask,if you no longer collect motuc and have such disgust for Mattel,why frequent a forum dedicated to the the line and company why hold in such contempt?

    There are some things we can not change,the sub model is one of them. Enjoy this line or move on,but you come of very wounded,perhaps a break from this line is needed?


    I get real tired of being branded as blind to this abuse that Mattel inflicts on my psyche. I just do not feel abused,and many more seem to not feel this either.

    These are toys.......just flipping toys.

    Have fun with them,I do hope you come to terms with your emotions and enjoy the last few years of this line along with the rest of us. You seem quite smart,and interesting to listen to,but let go of some of those emotions and just enjoy what we have,it will be gone some day.

    Take care and I hope you are able to work through your issues with Mattel,because not buying these out of spite only hurts one person.....you.
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  2. #452
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I means a lot you all miss the show. Thanks! I need more hours in the day.
    Maybe if we near the MOTUC sub deadline and things start to look dire again like last year, we'll see more Gooble episodes in support of pimping the line, answering questions about the sub itself by Scott and the Horsemen, and such, also like last year.
    Harken the coming of Dragstor!!

  3. #453
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzachery View Post
    I think that once you've reached the point where you're seeing mind games and emotional manipulation behind simple marketing, it's time to stop collecting that line and move on. Doesn't sound like a fun hobby to me.
    The rules of the game have changed for Mattel too. Labor costs. Plastic costs. Fuel costs. That we're down to die hard collectors, etc.
    He doesn't collect anymore to my knowledge....
    Recent....Flutterina, NA Skeletor
    Coming....Rio Blast (sold already)
    Wanted....Entrapa, Light Hope, (A real) Filmation Hordak & Clawful
    Considering....
    Needed....Dragstor

    Oh man, did I forget to use these [sarcasm][/sarcasm] again? Sorry....

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  4. #454
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzachery View Post
    The rules of the game have changed for Mattel too. Labor costs. Plastic costs. Fuel costs. That we're down to die hard collectors, etc.
    It's the last one that I believe is the main culprit. The cost increases are why we are paying more and getting less compared to the early. THe big problem is we are down considerably as far as overall sales, and I blame that on the reliance on the sub. As an option for collectors who want everything (meaning the sub was basically tailor made for me), it was a great thing that allowed us to skip the growing nightmare of facing the red or white Screen of Doom every month hoping to check out before the figures were gone. It was a welcome addition. But when Mattel decided it was going to rely on the sub and use it not as a service, but as the be-all and end-all of the line, it became a problem for a lot of folks. And it's only reasonable that it would. The sales model Matty follows is the single most ludicrous marketing strategy I could ever imagine. It's basically this: "We'll show you a handful of figures, maybe a few months worth, and you fork over several hundred dollars to us for a dozen or more items you have no clue about." In any other venue or business, such an approach would bring little but gut busting laughter, followed by, "No, seriously, how are you going to sell these things?" And now we're getting to the point where the sub is the only option to get some figures, and the decline we're seeing is virtually inevitable. It is a strategy that allows for no growth in the line, just a guaranteed drop off each year as the subs come up. Add in some annual attrition made inevitable by collectors getting fed up with DR and Mattel for various reasons (and we know that happens on a fairly regular basis just from the posts we've seen), and it's really a wonder the line is still going.

    A once useful and welcomed service has become a virtual caveman's club Mattel metaphorically bludgeons us with every August. And heavy handed tactics like not having some figures up for DOS just coincidentally when subs are coming up for sale does as much to drive people away as it does to convince them to buy. Whether or not Mattel is blatantly manipulating us is a matter for debate (no one here is sitting in on Mattel meetings as far as I know, so we can't know their motivations with any certainty), but the fact that many perceive this to be the case is a real problem for Matty and the line.
    "I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

  5. #455
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    Wow,I think you are really reading way to much in to a toy line. You also act as if Mattel are the smartest entity to ever exist. Man,I just looked at all of my figures and said,wow,Mattel and toyguru have really come through,but also the org as well. They keep this alive.

    May I ask,if you no longer collect motuc and have such disgust for Mattel,why frequent a forum dedicated to the the line and company why hold in such contempt?

    There are some things we can not change,the sub model is one of them. Enjoy this line or move on,but you come of very wounded,perhaps a break from this line is needed?


    I get real tired of being branded as blind to this abuse that Mattel inflicts on my psyche. I just do not feel abused,and many more seem to not feel this either.

    These are toys.......just flipping toys.

    Have fun with them,I do hope you come to terms with your emotions and enjoy the last few years of this line along with the rest of us. You seem quite smart,and interesting to listen to,but let go of some of those emotions and just enjoy what we have,it will be gone some day.

    Take care and I hope you are able to work through your issues with Mattel,because not buying these out of spite only hurts one person.....you.
    Sorry it took so long to reply. I was trying to finish my poem entitled, "A tale of heartache and woe - how my heart got a blister from a blister card," but I was crying so dang much the paper got too wet and I had to keep starting over because the ink was smearing. Then I couldn't find TG's address to send it to him.... or any frowny face stamps....

    To answer your question, I keep coming here because I'm a fan of MOTU more than MOTUC. It's important to let Mattel know they are doing a poor job in many areas until they do a better job.To be quiet and go away would be a disservice to MOTU. More stuff will be coming in the years ahead and if I go away, my 'vote' isn't counted. Or worse, Mattel thinks the potential audience is less than it really is, and maybe they don't push a project through.

    There's nothing wrong with caring about something. There's nothing wrong with introspection and looking at the bigger picture.

    So let me ask you a question, I'm assuming you're a subber, and have been for a few years at least. If I'm wrong, please disregard. But if these are just toys, why spend thousands of dollars on them? Is it because they mean more to you, or bring you more happiness than the countless other things you could spend the money on? Or is it something else?

    Also, why do you spend time here talking about toys? Is it because you enjoy talking about toys more than the countless other things you could spend your time on? Or is it something else?

    So just what are these toys worth to you?

    Not buying these toys, and spending less time here, has allowed me to use those funds to pursue other things that are very important to me. I miss MOTUC, I wish we could have had an amicable breakup, but I'm fine. I didn't quit out of spite. It was a simple weighing of the joy MOTUC brings me versus the frustration, and whether it was worth $1k a year when I could pursue other dreams.

    Lastly, I hope the tone of my email isn't harsh or sarcastic - I don't mean it to be. I'm seriously interested in hearing what these things mean to you.

  6. #456
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    As I have stated before,the July figure should have only been dos,but clamp champ should not have been July.
    The July figure should have been DOS? So it's offered day of sale and not part of the sub? I'm assuming you meant the July figure should be subscription only?
    8 figures I still need: 8/Perfuma (for completeness of POP ONLY!), 7/Filmation Tung Lashor, 6/Saurod, 5/Sprag, Sprocker and Spritina, 4/Peekablue, 3/Hunga the Harpy, 2/Filmation Clawful, 1/Dylamug.

  7. #457
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    Sorry it took so long to reply. I was trying to finish my poem entitled, "A tale of heartache and woe - how my heart got a blister from a blister card," but I was crying so dang much the paper got too wet and I had to keep starting over because the ink was smearing. Then I couldn't find TG's address to send it to him.... or any frowny face stamps....

    To answer your question, I keep coming here because I'm a fan of MOTU more than MOTUC. It's important to let Mattel know they are doing a poor job in many areas until they do a better job.To be quiet and go away would be a disservice to MOTU. More stuff will be coming in the years ahead and if I go away, my 'vote' isn't counted. Or worse, Mattel thinks the potential audience is less than it really is, and maybe they don't push a project through.

    There's nothing wrong with caring about something. There's nothing wrong with introspection and looking at the bigger picture.

    So let me ask you a question, I'm assuming you're a subber, and have been for a few years at least. If I'm wrong, please disregard. But if these are just toys, why spend thousands of dollars on them? Is it because they mean more to you, or bring you more happiness than the countless other things you could spend the money on? Or is it something else?

    Also, why do you spend time here talking about toys? Is it because you enjoy talking about toys more than the countless other things you could spend your time on? Or is it something else?

    So just what are these toys worth to you?

    Not buying these toys, and spending less time here, has allowed me to use those funds to pursue other things that are very important to me. I miss MOTUC, I wish we could have had an amicable breakup, but I'm fine. I didn't quit out of spite. It was a simple weighing of the joy MOTUC brings me versus the frustration, and whether it was worth $1k a year when I could pursue other dreams.

    Lastly, I hope the tone of my email isn't harsh or sarcastic - I don't mean it to be. I'm seriously interested in hearing what these things mean to you.
    Not harsh at all,thanks for your reply.

    I would say my love of motu is an evolving love.

    I first found them because of the ghostbusters on matty, I bought a few reissues in late 2009 and could not stop,the excitement and horror of missing any figures n 2010 turned me in to a subscriber. These toys remind me,like everyone,of ,my child hood,they were my first figures and started my to collection.

    Now, completing these and seeing them with the castle gives me a smile,also sappy I know, but when I see other fans happy because of thier favorite coming out,that just makes me smile. I know tat those who have subbed have given me my favorites,all the na figures,I know be myself subbing I have given 2000x fans or pop or whatever thier favorites.

    So yes you are correct,these are more than toys,they are history,art,memories and fellowship with everyone here.

    I can relate a bit, I have slowed down on my star wars collecting,it seemed more like a drug than being fun,it was hard to stop but lack of room,funds and honestly how many Luke jedi knights can one have,helped me move on.

    Would you ever buy a motuc figure again?

    In closing many of us will never agree,but I think we can at least understand each other. I am understanding much clearer after reading your thoughts.

    Also the "they are only toys" is something I myself forget....all to often.

    I thank you for the amount of respect you have showed me,you always seem to have a high class about you. It would be a shame if you did stop being apart of this forum,I am glad that is not your intent.

    I also hope if the conditions are right you pick up a few more of your favorites at least.

    Very nice speaking with you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    The July figure should have been DOS? So it's offered day of sale and not part of the sub? I'm assuming you meant the July figure should be subscription only?

    Sorry,yeah. I believe the July figure should have been subscription only,so to up the 2014 sub numbers. That said the July figure should not have been a vintage figure. Clamp champ,in my opinion should have had day of sale.

    Oh sorry if double posted,I hope this went on my other reply.....
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  8. #458
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    That said,I think once sdcc hits,many dos buyers will want most of what is offered and end up subscribing. Then perhaps all of this can be put behind us and we can just enjoy the toys and dare I say,each other.
    It's not necessarily that cut and dry for cherry pickers though. Some folks genuinely cannot commit to $500 worth of items as their financial situation could change at the drop of an hat. Even if you have a steady income, things can change and BAM! Receiving your credit card bill at the end of the month becomes a nightmare.

    I honestly believe more people choose to cherry pick because they are frightened of not being able to afford it, than those that don't want the burden of selling unwanted items. I do feel it for the folks who HAVE to live month to month and buy a figure when they know for certain that money isn't needed for bills etc...

    I do feel sorry for those who cannot afford to take that risk, which is why it's a good idea to pre-order them at BBTS (you can always cancel if you pick the figure up via Matty DOS) Then it guarantees you get your figure either way

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    It is a strategy that allows for no growth in the line, just a guaranteed drop off each year as the subs come up.
    Well to be honest I don't see any point in trying to attract new customers because the amount you'd get on board simply wouldn't be enough to make the risk of extra production worth it. If you don't know about the Classics line 5 years in, then I doubt you'd be the kind of collector to buy Rio Blast, Sweet Bee, Lizard Man etc...

    The sub caters to those who want these characters. Outside of Glimmer, Two-Bad, Tung Lashor and Scorpia, I doubt any other characters would sell out in minutes during DOS. We are at a point where the line is more financially viable not to have any overstock of DOS product (especially when they can use any CS stock for DOS later on!)

    Seriously, to think there is a 500+ untapped fan base out there yet to discover this line and jump on it is ridiculous!
    Last edited by blackiecats; June 27, 2013 at 04:41pm.
    8 figures I still need: 8/Perfuma (for completeness of POP ONLY!), 7/Filmation Tung Lashor, 6/Saurod, 5/Sprag, Sprocker and Spritina, 4/Peekablue, 3/Hunga the Harpy, 2/Filmation Clawful, 1/Dylamug.

  9. #459
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    Well to be honest I don't see any point in trying to attract new customers because the amount you'd get on board simply wouldn't be enough to make the risk of extra production worth it. If you don't know about the Classics line 5 years in, then I doubt you'd be the kind of collector to buy Rio Blast, Sweet Bee, Lizard Man etc...

    The sub caters to those who want these characters. Outside of Glimmer, Two-Bad, Tung Lashor and Scorpia, I doubt any other characters would sell out in minutes during DOS. We are at a point where the line is more financially viable not to have any overstock of DOS product (especially when they can use any CS stock for DOS later on!)

    Seriously, to think there is a 500+ untapped fan base out there yet to discover this line and jump on it is ridiculous!
    We've read about numerous folks who discovered the line in the past couple years; a lot of folks don't live large parts of their lives on the web like we do. There were MILLIONS of folks who grew up with He-Man; how many of those may come across the figures gets back into the argument about Mattel doing little to get word out other than telling us to do so. But to adopt a strategy that precludes even the possibility is ridiculous. And, again, the answer to not having a bunch of stock left over is the use of pre-orders as done by most companies in this market. And as has been pointed out many times, there is a demand for 2.0 versions of characters like Sword Raising He-Man and Better Articulation Teela; arguments that only third stringers are left ignore this.

    Point is, the current strategy goes nowhere, no way, no how, but to the inevitable end of the line. How can that be a smart strategy?
    "I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

  10. #460
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    It's not necessarily that cut and dry for cherry pickers though. Some folks genuinely cannot commit to $500 worth of items as their financial situation could change at the drop of an hat. Even if you have a steady income, things can change and BAM! Receiving your credit card bill at the end of the month becomes a nightmare.

    I honestly believe more people choose to cherry pick because they are frightened of not being able to afford it, than those that don't want the burden of selling unwanted items. I do feel it for the folks who HAVE to live month to month and buy a figure when they know for certain that money isn't needed for bills etc...

    I do feel sorry for those who cannot afford to take that risk, which is why it's a good idea to pre-order them at BBTS (you can always cancel if you pick the figure up via Matty DOS) Then it guarantees you get your figure either way

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well to be honest I don't see any point in trying to attract new customers because the amount you'd get on board simply wouldn't be enough to make the risk of extra production worth it. If you don't know about the Classics line 5 years in, then I doubt you'd be the kind of collector to buy Rio Blast, Sweet Bee, Lizard Man etc...

    The sub caters to those who want these characters. Outside of Glimmer, Two-Bad, Tung Lashor and Scorpia, I doubt any other characters would sell out in minutes during DOS. We are at a point where the line is more financially viable not to have any overstock of DOS product (especially when they can use any CS stock for DOS later on!)

    Seriously, to think there is a 500+ untapped fan base out there yet to discover this line and jump on it is ridiculous!
    Yeah,the kind of fans that would by the next few years of figures are already here.

    Now to my reply.......

    Agreed,money is a huge issue for not subbing.but if you want the rest of the core guys and gals,I would try and save,if you are going to buy them any way,why try to find them at higher prices later.

    Anyone of us could loose our job today,simple answer is,close your credit card.

    Now if you do not want most of what is coming,then yeah BBTS is the way or the trade and sell forums or eBay.

    I only say clamp champ because most....not all....but most of the cherry pickers/dos buyers seem to be in only for vintage. That would not solve the problem,but making sure vintage is always dos would do a lot of good. The other factions tend to not go as high,so if that is what someone wanted,then secondary should be easy and cheap enough.

    Like many have stated,this line can not be Taylor made for everyone,it would be nice but it can't be that way now.

    There has to be an answer out there that eludes us all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    We've read about numerous folks who discovered the line in the past couple years; a lot of folks don't live large parts of their lives on the web like we do. There were MILLIONS of folks who grew up with He-Man; how many of those may come across the figures gets back into the argument about Mattel doing little to get word out other than telling us to do so. But to adopt a strategy that precludes even the possibility is ridiculous. And, again, the answer to not having a bunch of stock left over is the use of pre-orders as done by most companies in this market. And as has been pointed out many times, there is a demand for 2.0 versions of characters like Sword Raising He-Man and Better Articulation Teela; arguments that only third stringers are left ignore this.

    Point is, the current strategy goes nowhere, no way, no how, but to the inevitable end of the line. How can that be a smart strategy?

    We need a movie period......that will bring in new fans. But classics is in the end game.

    By the way Scott,when ever I look at my granamyr,I think of you.
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  11. #461
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    Not harsh at all,thanks for your reply.

    I would say my love of motu is an evolving love.

    I first found them because of the ghostbusters on matty, I bought a few reissues in late 2009 and could not stop,the excitement and horror of missing any figures n 2010 turned me in to a subscriber. These toys remind me,like everyone,of ,my child hood,they were my first figures and started my to collection.

    Now, completing these and seeing them with the castle gives me a smile,also sappy I know, but when I see other fans happy because of thier favorite coming out,that just makes me smile. I know tat those who have subbed have given me my favorites,all the na figures,I know be myself subbing I have given 2000x fans or pop or whatever thier favorites.

    So yes you are correct,these are more than toys,they are history,art,memories and fellowship with everyone here.

    I can relate a bit, I have slowed down on my star wars collecting,it seemed more like a drug than being fun,it was hard to stop but lack of room,funds and honestly how many Luke jedi knights can one have,helped me move on.

    Would you ever buy a motuc figure again?

    In closing many of us will never agree,but I think we can at least understand each other. I am understanding much clearer after reading your thoughts.

    Also the "they are only toys" is something I myself forget....all to often.

    I thank you for the amount of respect you have showed me,you always seem to have a high class about you. It would be a shame if you did stop being apart of this forum,I am glad that is not your intent.

    I also hope if the conditions are right you pick up a few more of your favorites at least.

    Very nice speaking with you.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Sorry,yeah. I believe the July figure should have been subscription only,so to up the 2014 sub numbers. That said the July figure should not have been a vintage figure. Clamp champ,in my opinion should have had day of sale.

    Oh sorry if double posted,I hope this went on my other reply.....
    I've enjoyed this exchange. You've been civil and respectful too.

    Would I ever buy a MOTUC figure again? So I'm not rich. I can afford to subscribe, but it does mean that I have to do without other things. And I used to be happy to make that sacrifice because the happiness of collecting outweighed the frustrations. So there are 2 things that could get me buying again: if the frustrations mostly went away, or if my income increased so much that buying the figures didn't mean sacrificing other things. That MIGHT get me back in, but still, and this is my opinion - I'm not accusing anyone, I feel Mattel and TG have engaged in deception in trying to sell me figures and keep me on the happy side of the equation. I'm not calling them liars, but I have my own standards of what I feel is honest, good-faith communication, and Mattel and TG fall far short of those standards. I just can't divorce the two. If I cared less, I'd probably still be buying. I just can't stand someone, anyone, trying to control my behavior. And that's what Mattel has done (sure other companies do it too, and hate that as well) and is continuing to do. Sure, call it marketing, but I don't need any of these luxury good enough to do what some company is telling me to do. I don't want to sub, and I'm not going to sub because TG says I have to or I'll miss out. The turning of the tide for me was Shadow Weaver being made the exclusive. Before that, I just let the WSOD, shoulder gates, and other problems slide. Mattel had my good faith. Then they make a business decision that would anger their loyal customers, and so no more good faith. And the sad thing is subs went down.

    Another problem is I have a collector's mentality. I want all the figures I want, or it's just going to bug me every time I look at my shelf. I stopped with Spikor, and I've wanted about 90% of the figures that came out since (pretty much everyone except Dekker and FFM). So I'd have a hard time catching back up, especially the way things are going with limited quantities of figures.

    I know I'm pretty negative on TG and Mattel. I probably go too far at times. But I honestly feel that the brand, not necessarily the line, are going in the wrong direction. I don't feel those in charge respect the property, and I'm largely talking about comics/bios here. I'm guess I'm a patient optimist - I'd rather see MOTUC peter out and then get in a new regime of people with creative talents and vision to take over the line.

  12. #462
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    We've read about numerous folks who discovered the line in the past couple years; a lot of folks don't live large parts of their lives on the web like we do. There were MILLIONS of folks who grew up with He-Man; how many of those may come across the figures gets back into the argument about Mattel doing little to get word out other than telling us to do so. But to adopt a strategy that precludes even the possibility is ridiculous. And, again, the answer to not having a bunch of stock left over is the use of pre-orders as done by most companies in this market. And as has been pointed out many times, there is a demand for 2.0 versions of characters like Sword Raising He-Man and Better Articulation Teela; arguments that only third stringers are left ignore this.

    Point is, the current strategy goes nowhere, no way, no how, but to the inevitable end of the line. How can that be a smart strategy?
    They stated reissues won't sell enough. They have the sales data, whereas we don't. If there were an huge untapped fan base to support expansion they would be producing stock to sell to them. The huge BF/CM discounts on figures should be enough of a clue to believe the amount of new fans is minimal in the grand scheme of things. I've seen a dozen or so folks jump on board from what they have said on these forums. Yes not everyone posts here or on forums, but the fact is, 5 years in if they were going to jump on board they would have by now. The slight trickle of folks jumping in obviously isn't enough to expand things.
    8 figures I still need: 8/Perfuma (for completeness of POP ONLY!), 7/Filmation Tung Lashor, 6/Saurod, 5/Sprag, Sprocker and Spritina, 4/Peekablue, 3/Hunga the Harpy, 2/Filmation Clawful, 1/Dylamug.

  13. #463
    Heroic Warrior Minor's Avatar
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    This is always beating a dead horse at this time of year.

    The bottom line is that they have years of sales data for this line by now. They know what works for their bottom line and what doesn't. The line hit its saturation point a couple years ago with the 2012 sales. The new people coming to the line is not in the thousands which is what you need to go back to do a new production run. The new customers argument is pointless. There is of course no specific data that can be obtained for new customers, but this is probably only a couple hundred people a year. Not to mention those that have stopped collecting. If they wanted to grab these customers that don't know about this line they should of done a better marketing push in the very beginning. Most likely they didn't because the money spent would not have brought as much in.

    Clamp Champ not having any day of sale I have no problem with. This type of thing was given full disclosure last year. Although the timing of this characters release and the subscriptions going on sale is subject to scrutiny this was going to happen again at some point.

    At the end of the day even with all the constant debate about this line and its issues it is a magnificent line. Half the figures every year really seem to surprise me with their sculpts and I'm glad I did stumble across this line.

    I can't wait to see what is in store for us next year.
    Last edited by Minor; June 27, 2013 at 11:11pm.

  14. #464
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor View Post
    Clamp Champ being day of sale only I have no problem with. This type of thing was given full disclosure last year. Although the timing of this characters release and the subscriptions going on sale is subject to scrutiny this was going to happen again at some point.
    Clamp Champ isn't getting any day of sale stock. Why do folks keep posting as such by mistake?
    8 figures I still need: 8/Perfuma (for completeness of POP ONLY!), 7/Filmation Tung Lashor, 6/Saurod, 5/Sprag, Sprocker and Spritina, 4/Peekablue, 3/Hunga the Harpy, 2/Filmation Clawful, 1/Dylamug.

  15. #465
    Heroic Warrior Stratos*Major's Avatar
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    Specifically how was i disrespectful?
    Where did you see i was angry at mattel?
    There are a number of individuals who talk about those without the financial where-with-all to afford the line.
    What you call fact is an opinion.
    Just because someone subs does not mean they add more value to the line. Im almost sure there are cherry pickers who spend more than subbers...directly from DOS.
    Also...as the line started as DOS and subs were introduced by the customers not by mattel should tell you it isnt as factual as youd like to think. You are basing your opinion on what the brand manager has told the consumer. You can quote what TG has said but the only fact is that he said it.
    His job is to keep the line going and have job security. I dont fauly him for that...but i dont think what he says is 100% factual.
    Opinions and assumptions based on a marketing manager are facts not.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    The fact that you keep trying to imply that people who disagree with you somehow don't care about others is nothing more than an ad hominem attack. You talked about respect for others, and showed complete disrespect for those who disagree with you in the same post. *shakes head* No one is talking about those who can't afford to sub. Obviously if someone is struggling they should not be buying toys, no matter how much they love them. That being said, it doesn't make Mattel bad to sell their toys in the way that maximizes their profits. Again, these are just toys. You keep ignoring that fact, and try to pretend you are championing people who are poor, except no one here is attacking poor people. The rest of us are just pointing out the reality of the situation, and you are acting like we are caricatures from a Dickens novel. Being a cherry picker is not being more selfish than subbing, but getting angry at Mattel for not catering to cherry pickers is. They have no obligation to cater to anyone. Just as you have the right to sell the figures you own however you see fit, for whatever price you want, so do they. That does not make them any more "heartless" or "greedy" than the guy (or girl) selling Teela or Fisto on these forums for $100+.

    As to whether or not someone is a "true fan" of MOTU if they can't afford to sub, and choose not to, that can be debated on and on with absolutely no way to know. After all, neither you nor I nor anyone else here can see into a person's heart, but it is fact that subbing supports the line more than cherry picking. Yes, if you do not sub, you not add as much value to this line as someone who doesn't. That's math. There is no getting around it. These are just pieces of plastic, they are not human beings. Their only value is what someone will pay for them. Human beings have intrinsic value that transcends money. Plastic does not. To paraphrase Tyler Durden - You are not your toys.

  16. #466
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    They stated reissues won't sell enough. They have the sales data, whereas we don't. If there were an huge untapped fan base to support expansion they would be producing stock to sell to them. The huge BF/CM discounts on figures should be enough of a clue to believe the amount of new fans is minimal in the grand scheme of things. I've seen a dozen or so folks jump on board from what they have said on these forums. Yes not everyone posts here or on forums, but the fact is, 5 years in if they were going to jump on board they would have by now. The slight trickle of folks jumping in obviously isn't enough to expand things.
    With the current uptick of geek culture, and the millions of adults who were He-man fans, it's possible that there are enough fans to grow the line and reissue figures out there. But for whatever reason, Mattel doesn't care to try and grow the line. We don't know for sure how many potential new fans there are out there. But we do know for sure that Mattel hasn't done much to reach new customers. And they have said as much, putting the onus on us.

  17. #467
    Heroic Horde General Canada-Man's Avatar
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    I feel that this day in age with technology being what it is the people who are collecting he-man are the ones who were at one point interested enough to google it and see whats up with the brand. For those who liked he-man as a child but don't care enough to look it up online on their own are probably not interested enough to get into it now at this stage of their life. Basically computers and the internet make things very readily available at any given moment.

    What I'm trying to say is I don't think there are potentially thousands of fans out there that haven't found out about classics but maybe a few hundred....if that. The way I see it. If you interested in something you'll look for it. If you don't and just stumble on it chances are there is no potential for them to start collecting.

    A movie would be the true test to see how many people are still interested in he-man that don't currently know about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    With the current uptick of geek culture, and the millions of adults who were He-man fans, it's possible that there are enough fans to grow the line and reissue figures out there. But for whatever reason, Mattel doesn't care to try and grow the line. We don't know for sure how many potential new fans there are out there. But we do know for sure that Mattel hasn't done much to reach new customers. And they have said as much, putting the onus on us.

  18. #468
    Heroic Warrior Stratos*Major's Avatar
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    I found out about this line only 3 years ago...
    I was on e-bay and wanted a vintage stratos...guess what i found!

  19. #469
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    Guys, everyone has a right to their opinions towards this topic, negative or positive, as long as they do so in a respectful manner. Let's not make this thread about individual members of the forum. Also, remember there is no complaining about complaining allowed. thanks.

  20. #470
    Heroic Warrior Hosed Ovor's Avatar
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    Making deliberate decisions which cause your customers to form an unfavorable opinion of your company is foolish. Are controversial decisions designed to sell a few more subs really worth sowing ill will? MOTUC means virtually nothing to Mattel's bottom line. However, the ill will has a negative effect on Mattel's brand in general and has the potential to cost them revenue on other product lines. There is reason why so many members of the action figure collecting community have an unfavorable opinion of Mattel.

  21. #471
    Heroic Warrior Minor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    Clamp Champ isn't getting any day of sale stock. Why do folks keep posting as such by mistake?
    It's a mistake.

  22. #472
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosed Ovor View Post
    Making deliberate decisions which cause your customers to form an unfavorable opinion of your company is foolish. Are controversial decisions designed to sell a few more subs really worth sowing ill will? MOTUC means virtually nothing to Mattel's bottom line. However, the ill will has a negative effect on Mattel's brand in general and has the potential to cost them revenue on other product lines. There is reason why so many members of the action figure collecting community have an unfavorable opinion of Mattel.
    Foolish....yeah Mattel has made some foolish choices,but hasbro blows them out of the water.

    I don't know how many people say " I missed clamp champ,I am not buying that monster high doll for little Susie".

    I don't know what the line means to mattels bottom line,I don't have access to thier records,but I would assume it is not much but I would think with a movie in the works and comics series doing well the stock of motu is going up.

    I just can not look at the huge motuc collection I have and say mattel has made overall bad choices.

    They could do a better job for sure,but have they really been that bad?

    Best thing to happen will be reaching the sub goal right after the reveals,and have dos for everyone .

    The bottom line is this, if Mattel puts forth the figures we want,made the way the horseman intend then most will want to sub anyway. I have faith that will happen,and this dos arguing can finally be banished.
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  23. #473
    Heroic Warrior Stratos*Major's Avatar
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    Just wait until Fang Man, Clamp Champ, & Spirit of Hordak show up on Cyber Monday, a Wal-Mart in CA or Ollies!

  24. #474
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos*Major View Post
    Just wait until Fang Man, Clamp Champ, & Spirit of Hordak show up on Cyber Monday, a Wal-Mart in CA or Ollies!
    I fully expect them in 2014 early access,they may even announce that to sell more subs. A pricey tool like fang mang? No way is he sold out. And clamp champ as coll as he is, is all used parts,the profit must be larger on him.

    But then again,they will be subject to early access sell out.

    Cough drop hordak I think will only be on matty and only in 2013.

    Just my thoughts,I could be wrong but this seems likely of TG.
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  25. #475
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos*Major View Post
    Just because someone subs does not mean they add more value to the line. Im almost sure there are cherry pickers who spend more than subbers...directly from DOS.
    Individual cases of one person spending more money on DOS than one subber does not outweigh the amount of guaranteed sales Scott can show his bosses to allow another year of tooling for the variety of figures this line produces every year.

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