The mysterious Savage He-Man variant formerly known as "Wonder Bread He-Man"

[TOKYONEVER]

Yep I understand well, so, the goal will be to find the figure (figures?) made with the lioncloth gap and like that we have the production year of the Savage He-Man? Sounds good.
But something is more easy again: simply check inside the arms of the Savage He-Man figures the numbers to know that

What I mean is: all the 1982 figures are using molds numbers 1 to 4 for their arms, I am saying that because my early Man-At-Arms and my early He-Man have number 1right & 2left (same molds), as my early Skeletor and my early Mer-Man have 1left & 2right (same molds again between them), early Stratos (blue bearb) 2right & 3left and early Beast-Man 3left & 4right, my early Faker 2left & 3right (nothing as been mixed I promise).

If all the Savage He-ManS have numbers like 5 and 6, it is a later produced figure because the molds 1 to 4 were replaced progressively by bigger numbers the years later.
If all the Savage He-ManS have numbers 1 to 4 max, it is a 1982 produced figure.

No?

I can't check on my side for Savage He-Man numbers, I sold all of mines years ago lol

[Mantisaur82]

But something is more easy again: simply check inside the arms of the Savage He-Man figures the numbers to know that

No, because those were just numbers of molds, they don't mean much and not always matching the production period. They were probably used and reused and some were damaged and replaced while others were reused over and over...

What I mean is: all the 1982 figures are using molds numbers 1 to 4 for their arms, I am saying that because my early Man-At-Arms and my early He-Man have number 1right & 2left (same molds), as my early Skeletor and my early Mer-Man have 1left & 2right (same molds again between them), early Stratos (blue bearb) 2right & 3left and early Beast-Man 3left & 4right, my early Faker 2left & 3right (nothing as been mixed I promise).

If all the Savage He-ManS have numbers like 5 and 6, it is a later produced figure because the molds 1 to 4 were replaced progressively by bigger numbers the years later.
If all the Savage He-ManS have numbers 1 to 4 max, it is a 1982 produced figure.

Here are examples of made in TAIWAN figures from my collection.... I bought them loose, but it is impossible that so many of them have mixed arms.

LEFT arm - RIGHT arm:

7 - 4 Man-At-Arms "Red Dots" (first edition)
7 - 6 Mer Man "Green Belt" (first edition)
3 - 2 Stratos
3 - 2 Beast Man

But the fun is starting with He-Man and Skeletor...

5 - 8 Skeletor 8-Back "purple shorts" (first edition)
7 - 6 Skeletor 8-Back "Half Boots" (second edition)
1 - 3 Skeletor 8-Back (third edition) the same figure was packed in Euro Uni Logo 8-Back and Canadian 8-Back
1 - 3 Skeletor "1981 classic" the same painted heads and the same mold for legs (differnet than for all 3 mentioned 8-Back Skeletors) was used also for Battle Armor Skeletor figures.

Just for comparison, on two of Taiwan Battle Armor Skeletor figures, numbers on arms are 34-34 and 35-36.

And now He-Man...

11 - 12 "Yellow Belt"
23 - 24 "Yellow Belt"
26 - 24 "Yellow Belt"
9 - 10 "Orange Belt"
17 - 19 "Orange Belt"
23 - 25 "Orange Belt"
17 - 18 "1982" The last of Taiwanese He-Man figures marked 1982 on the back of the figure.
and just for comparison 23 - 26 Battle Armor He-Man

The explenation for that higher number marks on He-man and Skeletor figures than in others is probably because they were produced in much meny molds since those are figures who will be sold in much higher number than any others...so from the start they were produced in much bigger production series than Stratos, Beast Man, Mer Man and the others

Also If you decide that it my example is not good because I bought loose figures (from different people) so their arms might be mixed...then in the Savage He-Man that could be case too...since they are (almost) always bought in loose condition..so chances fro mixing arms with He-Man are the same.

[TOKYONEVER]

So, yes, please forget my idea about numbers inside the arms

But what about the lioncloth gap? if we can find which He-Man figure exactly has been made with this defective mold, what we can learn Particularly? I mean, if you are looking at this part on the figure, we have no year or indications on it (probably just a number inside)

[Arkangel]

So, yes, please forget my idea about numbers inside the arms

But what about the lioncloth gap? if we can find which He-Man figure exactly has been made with this defective mold, what we can learn Particularly? I mean, if you are looking at this part on the figure, we have no year or indications on it (probably just a number inside)

For a long while i thought this was an unique feature of savage he-man, however, someone has already posted a skeletor with a gap like that on this thread.

My figure also has this feature:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Mantisaur82]

So, yes, please forget my idea about numbers inside the arms

But what about the lioncloth gap? if we can find which He-Man figure exactly has been made with this defective mold, what we can learn Particularly? I mean, if you are looking at this part on the figure, we have no year or indications on it (probably just a number inside)

I still have that figure...I made custom from it, but he is still here.
I can't open it to see the number (have no idea where those numbers are printed inside loincloth).

It is TAIWAN 1981, which is the same as Savage He-Man...but that doesn't tell much except that it is not from the mold used for TAIWAN 1982 He-Man.
The most useful would be if we can see what are the other variants/figures showing the gap..and if it is present only among figures that we know that belong to the same time of production..then we can locate production time of Savage He-Man = time of use of "the gap mold".

For a long while i thought this was an unique feature of savage he-man, however, someone has already posted a skeletor with a gap like that on this thread.

My figure also has this feature:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2...1122230749.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Can you find that Skeletor picture??? It would be PERFECT if we could see face of that Skeletor!
That would help a lot since complex face paint job was changed over time so we can really follow the "Evolution" of Skeletor made in Taiwan.

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Ha...there is something useful about "the gap" from older posts.

Mer Man is NOT early "Green Belt" variant!

Great to see you on the thread again Ram_Man_21!



Fisto, Mossman, Buzz-Off, and Flying Fist He-Man all have brown molds. Their colors are all distinctly different from WB He-Man's mold; generally they are all darker. The molds themselves are different as well. All these figures just mentioned with brown molds were produced in either Honk Kong or Malaysia. The pelvic molds on these figures look a little different from Taiwan pelvic molds. The Taiwan pelvic molds tend to have thinner fir with more detail. Hong Kong and Malaysian pelvic molds tend to have thicker fir and with a little less detail.

When inspecting the pelvic molds on Taiwan 1981 figures I noticed a subtle difference among them. The vast majority of the pelvic molds look like this:

Man-at-Arms
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02704.jpg
Zodak
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02707.jpg
He-Man
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02708.jpg

Notice how the fir goes directly up to the base of the center of the belt.
I found only 3 Taiwan 1981 figures in my collection that differ subtly from these molds all in the EXACT same way. Notice how there is a small gap between the top of the fir and the center of the belt buckle:

Wonderbread (Savage) He-man
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02710.jpg
Stratos
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02713.jpg
Mer-Man
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02714.jpg

I know the differences are subtle but I just found it kind of interesting. Do you think this difference is because of a different mold or just a slight error/difference in production? It’s just weird that they differ in EXACTLY the same way. For those of you with Wonderbread He-Men out there:
If you could inspect the pelvic mold on your figure and post which one of these molds you have that would be awesome. If all the molds are like the lower three figures (with a gap between the fir and center of belt buckle), it might give some insight into whether or not these figures were produced in one run or multiple runs with multiple molds.

Here’s some pictures of my figure by the way:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02717.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02718.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/DSC02721.jpg

WARNING: THIS POST IS THE RESULT OF SOMEONE HAVING WAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS. IF YOU FIND YOURSELF ENJOYING A VACATION, IT IS SUGGESTED THAT YOU FIND SOMETHING MORE PRODUCTIVE TO OCCUPY YOUR TIME THAN INSPECTING THE PELVIC MOLDS ON HE-MAN FIGURES…

[TOKYONEVER]

Sounds good, I am in the "quest" also Mantisaur82, I will check the lioncloth of all the figures that I will have on my road starting now and if I can find something I will inform you

[Arkangel]

yes, you can find the picture here:

http://he-man.org/forums/boards/show...an-quot/page81

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and on page 82 you find this:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Mantisaur82]

And some more interesting stuff...a figure of savage He-Man without the gap!??
If it is real, then it seems that they were produced from at least two different molds.

Here is the crotch of my Powerless He-Man, doesn't seem to match yours, hope mine's not a fake , I'm always convinced that these are though, so...


http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...1&d=1213665923

About "how many molds" question..I was wondering, what are the numbers of arm molds for other Savage He-man figures, we have numbers for one here:

btw i was looking at my wonder bread he-man and i checked that the arms left and right are numbered "2" and "3" respectively, does this mean anything?

And during the search among photos in older posts, here it is, finally!!!
SKELETOR with "the gap"!

here it is after a few edits i got it perfect, hope this helps in the overall investigation!

It is not the first edition skeletor, but it is 8 back based on blue color in his eye sockets and fully painted boots, so the figure fits in
Skeletor 8-Back (third edition) he is not "Half boots" and the same production version of a figure was packed in Euro Uni Logo 8-Back (1981) and Canadian 8-Back (1981-2 and 1983)


But here is more...there is early Prince Adam with the same gap... which means 1983 is the year of production?

I noticed my MOC Prince Adam also has the space in the shorts. This is an early release with "New" burst on the top left corner.

http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...ictureid=13382

So the time of use for that mold was 1981, 1982, 1983...which doesn't help much

Oh, I see now that Arkangel already posted, we were searching at the same time.
Thanks!

[TOKYONEVER]

Mantisaur82, now cross your fingers to never see a Clamp Champ or a King Randor figure with the lioncloth gap in the future

[Mantisaur82]

Mantisaur82, now cross your fingers to never see a Clamp Champ or a King Randor figure with the lioncloth gap in the future

They were never produced in Taiwan (as far as I know) so it wouldn't be the same mold, don't worry!

I think that the last figure produced in Taiwan is Rattlor (1985) or maybe Sssquezze (1986)??? Both would be the only Made in Taiwan figure for each year. Even in 1984, only Thunder Punch He-Man and Grizzlor were produced in Taiwan.

[TOKYONEVER]

I am thinking also for Rattlor, I don't know why I had in head King Randor, I have to search on my side something concerning this figure cause I have the strange feeling to got one in hand made in Taiwan by the past.
About Clamp Champ yeah, I am totaly out lol

Edit: No, it is Ssssqueeze, I have one in hands marked taiwan 1986 on its back, so I have really to check concerning King Randor now.

[Mantisaur82]

I am thinking also for Rattlor, I don't know why I had in head King Randor, I have to search on my side something concerning this figure cause I have the strange feeling to got one in hand made in Taiwan by the past.
About Clamp Champ yeah, I am totaly out lol

Edit: No, it is Ssssqueeze, I have one in hands marked taiwan 1986 on its back, so I have really to check concerning King Randor now.

Is there any other King Randor besides Malaysia?

[TOKYONEVER]

If we are speaking only concerning the USA market I have a serious doubt, cause I remember clearely I had two different versions carded in hands and I was prefering one because the paint job and the "golden" parts was largely better than the other one (in my memory it was a Taiwan version, but I am not 100% affirmative on that for the moment).
Both had the "NEW" logo on the card for sure.

[Mantisaur82]

If we are speaking only concerning the USA market I have a serious doubt, cause I remember clearely I had two different versions carded in hands and I was prefering one because the paint job and the "golden" parts was largely better than the other one (in my memory it was a Taiwan version, but I am not 100% affirmative on that for the moment).
Both had the "NEW" logo on the card for sure.

I am not asking about just US market, but any official (non bootleg) Randor figure. I am not aware of any but Malaysia but I think that maybe there are two different versions of those, or possibly there is Hong Kong or even Italy (without country marks)???
I know there is Spanish Clamp Champ, so maybe could be even Randor, but never saw any.


now, back to the topic...

Here is something interesting that could be related to the production time because of a quality of materials...I never saw Savage He-Man showing blackening around the thighs area ("crotch rot") in any stage of development. Unlike many other Taiwan Figures...like He-Man, Man-At-Arms, Skeletor, Prince Adam (both variants), Battle Armor He-Man, Battle Armor Skeletor, Thunder Punch He-Man...




But I never saw "crotch rot" on early variants like "Yellow Belt" He-Man, "Red Dots" Man-At-Arms, "Blue Belt" Man-At-Arms, any of 3 variants of 8-back Skeletor... while it is very common problem for "Orange Belt" He-Man, "Grey Belt" Man At Arms, classic Skeletor figures (those without blue paint in the eye sockets)...

Can someone show us examples of any early variants made in Taiwan or Savage He-Man with "crotch rot" ?

Is there "crotch rot" present in any "TAIWAN 1982" figures of He-man and Skeletor (1982 marked on the back of the figure)?

[mozartpc27]

I have been following the mystery of this figure for some time, and two things keep striking me (the following is all purely conjecture):

1) It seems to be an article of faith at this point that Savage He-Man was a production error, rather than a purposefully designed toy. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but it's worth noting that mail-in specials were an integral part of the marketing of almost every major action figure line of the 1980s. I myself have a Hooded Cobra Commander figure from Hasbro's G.I. Joe line that I most definitely got by mail-away, but that was eventually sold regularly on a blister card after that promotion ended, and famously Kenner's Super Powers line included a mail-away offer for a Clark Kent figure during its second wave. I cite these two examples because, in both cases, these mail-aways were clearly not production errors, but figures purpose-designed and used, at least at first, exclusively as mail-in promotion giveaways (and in the case of Clark Kent, the figure was only ever a mail-in).

So it's at least possible that Savage He-Man was designed to be a mail-in special promotion figure only. I understand the logic behind assuming otherwise - if this were a purposely-designed figure, wouldn't Mattel have a record of its existence? You'd think so, but this may not be as straight-forward as it seems: if a figure is designed specifically as an in-house promotion, never to be sold at retail, it doesn't need a catalogue number for vendors looking to order, it doesn't need a UPC, etc. So it could be that something like this was produced to a certain number, distributed, and then forgotten about.

2. Whether a production error or a purposely-designed figure, I am more and more of the opinion that this was something that was distributed in small batches through several methods. Imagine you are Mattel and you have produced 10,000 or so of these things, whether on purpose or by accident. You set up a program to promote your line by giving one away to everyone who buys 3, with one particular one you think you've probably over-produced (so you are using te giveaway as an incentive to move an overstocked item). Your instinct that you overstocked on the one item proves correct, and you only wind up getting 5,000 requests during the promotion dates you set up. What do you do with the remaining 5,000 unclaimed special figures? Toss 'em? No way! You use them for other special promotions, and keep on using them, until you run out. If you can't give them away that way, as someone upthread mentioned, you eventually dump whatever remainder you have on some discount store chain for a bulk price.

I really believe there were probably 2 or 3 or maybe even more ways these Savage He-Man figures were finally distributed to the public. I personally believe (although I know this will be controversial) that Wonder Bread probably was associated with at least one giveaway, on the old "where there's smoke, there's fire" theory (Contintental Baking was a known partner of Mattel, evidence of at least one other specific promotional tie-in between the two companies exists, etc.), but this buy-3-get-one-free thing sounds like it probably happened as well, and maybe a few in-store promotions (there was one a few pages ago concerning Children's Land or something like that that sounded highly plausible). Whatever number of these Mattel produced, they probably used them for all kinds of promotions until they finally depleted the stock, simple as that. I would be surprised if we ever learned there was one and only one official promotion with which this figure was associated.

[Arkangel]

If it was a mail away or a promotion, then it has to be the only one in the world not showing evidence of it's existence.

[mozartpc27]

If it was a mail away or a promotion, then it has to be the only one in the world not showing evidence of it's existence.

I don't know, Arkangel - you're asserting proof of a negative here. If there's no evidence of something's existence, then it is of course likely that no one knows it exists... I'd be willing to bet there are all kinds of former mail-away promotions the evidence for which has vanished, but we'll never know, because the evidence for them has vanished...

[JVS3]

I agree with Arkangel in spirit about this particular figure. We need the proof to know for certain. To now start formulating Savage He-Man was available multiple ways to allow for all options isn't the best approach IMO.

I suppose anything is possible, but I do think that may be broadening the playing field a tad too much. Still, I feel that a mail-away for a major brand like MOTU would most likely have turned up something tangible by now. It boggles the mind.

[ninjor 9]

wonder bread he man 012.jpg this was covered up by wonder after he man got fat from their bread , jk its an old custom i made a few years ago

[toohunky]

It is all true: Grains are completely evil (especially the refined ones)! That He-Man would NOT be a heroic warrior!

wonder bread he man 012.jpg this was covered up by wonder after he man got fat from their bread , jk its an old custom i made a few years ago

[Rioblast]

wonder bread he man 012.jpg this was covered up by wonder after he man got fat from their bread , jk its an old custom i made a few years ago

LOL!! Interesting use of Tattoo's body for that custom.

[Mysterio]

wonder bread he man 012.jpg this was covered up by wonder after he man got fat from their bread , jk its an old custom i made a few years ago

Best Wundar custom ever! I bet He-Man would like some Nutella on that too... looks like he already enjoys loads of it.

[ninjor 9]

LOL!! Interesting use of Tattoo's body for that custom.

you know your ninja turtles , i sold this years ago but want to make another one for my collection ,i like to compare the unique action features from motu that were used again for tmnt figures.

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Best Wundar custom ever! I bet He-Man would like some Nutella on that too... looks like he already enjoys loads of it.

thanks . i can just see 30 years from now there might be threads about the mysterious nutella he man , was he a mail away ? or was he hidden in limited jars of nutella? maybe thats why his hair is brown ? does he smell like nutella ? what have you started ?

[Gryf]

the savage he-man custom is hilarious !

[kevyates79]

Help required please fellow fans I have been offered a savage He-Man for $200 but I am not sure it is legit the buyer says it states on the back 1981 Hong Kong.

Now from reading on this forum I have only seen people say they have 1981 Taiwan or 1981 Mexico ones does this mean this is a knock off? The guy has not sold other MOTU items and does say he cannot prove it is legit but says he has asked 2 toy stores who say it is real anyone got any info they can help me out with?