The mysterious Savage He-Man variant formerly known as "Wonder Bread He-Man"

[JVS3]

I found mine when I responded to a classified ad in the newspaper. Some people were moving and selling all their kids toys.

You lucky pup!
When did that happen, btw?

anyways, I had to much egg-nog myself to be honest! Egg-nog lattes that is! from Starbucks! Yumm!

I'm a big egg nog guy, but those just don't taste right to me.
But, if ya like it, hey, ya like it!

[Mr. Shokoti]

I'm an eggnog purist. No eggnog shakes or eggnog lattes. I don't even like rum in mine. Just straight from the bottle.

[Neutro]

I just still find it hard to believe that even Mattel, has no record of this figure's origin! Just let me go look through Mattel's archives, I'll find out something!

Someone, somewhere, has to know something!

(btw, eggnog is disgusting, no matter how it's served!)

[dr thunder]

You know what's awesome? This thread was started in 2002 and is still being updated and it's nearly 2011. That's pretty cool right there.

[AKA-DOM]

Not a fan of the nog myself.

The true mystery behind Savage He Man is the price and why I want one? He really is the Vinyl Caped Jawa of MOTU.

Have any examples ever been found outside North America? Not wishing to cause a wild goose chase, but there may be info in other places. There have been a few show up on european ebay sites, but I would struggle to tell legit from fake.

[Arkangel]

Have any examples ever been found outside North America? Not wishing to cause a wild goose chase, but there may be info in other places. There have been a few show up on european ebay sites, but I would struggle to tell legit from fake.

Someone, somewhere in this thread claimed that he got his wb he-man in holland (or finland i can't be sure now). But as far as i remember that was the only case and most likely will be the only one.

[Tallstar]

We just have to wait for more of these figures to show up in lots - unnamed - from oblivious sellers. Then hopefully at least one of them can remember the promotion.

[lofftap]

These are other pictures about my Savage He-Man:

Simone, question please

Question has been made again of Savage He-Man being found other then North America and I thought that would be a great question for you to answer for us. I can't remember off the top of my head where you got yours, but I thought you had received it when you were a kid if I'm not mistaken. Anyways, if not no worries... just thought I should throw it by you...


What's up with all these Egg-nog haters! Egg-Nog is the bomb! With Rum, as a shake, cold or hot or whatever! Each to his own I guess... LOL... it's alright... more egg-nog for me then!
_______

[NikeBoyRM]

Sorry for my bad English but I can't understand what you mean with "just thought I should throw it by you"...

In reply to your question: I bought the WB He-Man from the USA many years ago, from an old woman who was cleaning her old hause, the attic...she had this item she named: "Brown Hair He-Man" and she told to me it came to her by mail, she won it...but she didn't remember anything about a factory called "Wonder Bread". She wanted to give the action figure to her grandson, but he didn't want a brown hair He-Man because he said to her that this He-Man was false, because the real He-Man was blonde.
So she putted this action figure in her attic, but she thought it was rare because his colours were wrong, for this reasons she asked to me 250,00 Euros for it.

[JVS3]

Wow, she wanted 250 Euros???

[Arkangel]

crafty old lady lololol

[Tallstar]

Mattel should reprint the ToyFare article in Woman's Day magazine, Family Circle, etc. and entitle it: "80s Moms' We Need Your Help"

[AKA-DOM]

Whats the going rate for a Savage He Man these days?

[Arkangel]

i don't want to be beating a dead horse here, but watching "the social network" (yeah the facebook movie) kinda spruced out a possibility in my mind.

Let's go back to the lawsuit, and read me out before hitting me with ... something:

Making a long story short, in 1980 CPI hired MATTEL to produce figures for the Conan movie. Shortly after, MATTEL wants to resign with CPI allegedly due to the violent nature of the material and presents He-Man to the world, which then leaded to the lawsuit as CPI claimed He-Man was basically a Conan rip-off.

You'll immediately think that Savage He-Man could very possibly had been MATTEL's version of Conan, in fact, even the prototype he-man with helmet resembles a lot to Conan. BUT if that was the case, wouldn't CPI simply grab both figures, he-man and savage he-man, put them side by side in court and let the judge decide? It just so happens that it wasn't the case, CPI never done that and after watching jiidees youtube video i remembered this:

NDA : Non Disclosure Agreement

Which is usually in basic terms, when a part pays another part to shut up about something.

Could Mattel have realised the potential of the line and decided to part ways with Conan figures? I'm not saying He-Man was Mattel's only project because it obviously wasn't, but the resemblance of the Helmet He-Man prototype and Conan is significant, and what was Mattel doing for 2 years? (while contracted by CPI), what did they produce? They didn't, but in the meanwhile He-Man shows up.

Hope you can relate all the bits i've written and come up with your own conclusions.

[JVS3]

AKA-DOM:

It varies.

Is it one in a Lot auction where you luck out when the seller doesn't know what they have?

Or are you getting one that's intentionally pimped as a rare figure?


Arkangel:

You'll have to explain the NDA angle and how that fits into what you're proposing.

Regardless, both Ted Mayer and Mark Taylor speak about He-Man being an idea in play prior to 1980.
But then again, I don't know if I've seen any MOTU design work with dates on it prior to 1980.

That aside, in the 70s sword and sorcery was relatively hot. I can see a toy company wanting to tap into that in some way.
But I can also see Mattel shying away from Conan. They produced childrens' toys after all.
MOTU was never presented to be as violent as Conan.

Also, Savage He-Man doesn't look like the movie Conan.
I'd think the figure would be a lot closer to that if it was in fact based on the movie design.

[Arkangel]

Ok, in 1980 Mattel is contracted by CPI to produce Conan movie figures, two years later, In January 1982, Mattel claims to be a friendly toy company and that is no longer interested in developing a Conan figures line due to the violence of the core material. One month after that, the first He-Man figure appears.

After looking at the He-Man concept, CPI files a lawsuit against Mattel claiming that He-Man was a Conan Rip-Off. Now, you'll have to read the whole lawsuit to understand how Mattel's proved that CPI wasn't the owner of the CONAN copyright. After that, in a short period of time Mattel's idea that He-Man's resemblance to Conan was purely coincidence, became the winner and CPI lost the case.

This is the confusing bit which may be too close or too far from the truth. In order to mass produce what Mattel was asked to do, i figure the final product would first be shown to the costumer (in this case CPI) right? But if that was the case, CPI would just put Savage He-Man and He-Man side by side and demonstrate the Juri:

"This is Conan *points to savage he-man* and this is He-man *points to blond he-man*, tell me this isn't ripping off our idea"

With this comparison CPI would simply blow Mattel away, the thing is, it never happened, this can be explained by:

. They never saw a final product end of story.
. They did see a final product but because of copyright infringement that has gotten in the way, CPI was "afraid" of being sued over producing someone else's property and never brought the evidence up. Maybe if they never actually made this happen, there shouldn't be a problem.

Savage He-Man is a high quality figure and the samples that keep popping up prove to be consistent (boot paint, short colour and space between the belt yada yada yada).

Maybe, somewhere in those 2 years where Mattel was contracted, the figure was produced, and then dismissed after Mattel realising the potential of this line of figures, thus the change of colour scheme and disposal of savage he-man.

Because there is interest in both parties not being associated with copyright infringement, it is possible that both agreed on a non disclosure agreement. On one hand the figure was never produced by Mattel, so the He-Man concept was never stolen from Conan, on the other hand, CPI never approved any Savage He-Man to go forward so there is no copyright infringement over Conan property. Mattel gets to produce it's successful line of toys in there own fashion (non violent), and if such NDA existed, CPI would still be paid to keep the agreement.

There is still a big question though, If things happened this way, how did Savage He-Man got into kids collections? Could be that Mattel ditched the production and the manufacturer got to, either destroy the product or do whatever it felt like to it.

[Emiliano]

Interesting and well thought theory, but the idea that the He-Man figure was first created as a Conan figure has been debunked numerous time.
I've seen with my eyes early He-Man concepts, based on characters creaated by Mark Taylor at least at the end of the seventies, then pitched at a Mattel meeting in December 80 in the form of 3 protoytpes by Rogers Sweet, as a completely different line that had nothing to do with Conan. The basic He-Man feature where there already.
The final sculpt for the He-Man figure, as well as most if not all the first line, was created by Tony Guerro based on Mark Taylor's designs, and it was He-Man, it was nevere associated with Conan.

So, once again, Savage He-Man simply can't be a test shot for a never released Conan line.

[Arkangel]

Yup, if that's the case, then i guess you are right.

One thing thou, the helmet he-man prototype is a reality, and as far as i could dig, Mattel denied to ever have produced anything for the Conan toy line.

If you put that prototype side by side with the Conan art, the resemblance is obvious. But we all know it to be an early He-Man prototype ...


Maybe it was a bad move from Mattel to have accepted the CPI deal in the first place when they already had similar plans?

In conclusion to this whole thread, the worse aspect of this mystery is that there are no ends to grab on, we know the figure is real, and it was produced at some point in time, why? How did it end in people's collection? How come no one remembers !??

This case is unsettling

[Emiliano]

Yup, if that's the case, then i guess you are right.

One thing thou, the helmet he-man prototype is a reality, and as far as i could dig, Mattel denied to ever have produced anything for the Conan toy line.

If you put that prototype side by side with the Conan art, the resemblance is obvious. But we all know it to be an early He-Man prototype ...

Yep, the He-Man with the helmet prototype (it can be seen in our prototype section) was the first sculpt by Tony Guerro, later modified (and it was supposed to have black hair).
But also some of the early Mark Taylor drawings had helmets, but with no horns (included the Roger Sweet's prototype).
the only horned helmet I've seen on paper was in the "Vikor" art.

Maybe it was a bad move from Mattel to have accepted the CPI deal in the first place when they already had similar plans?

Roger Sweet talks a bit about that in his book.
Mattel was considering both line. Chasing the Conan license while developing a line internally that would have been completely owned by the company.

Sweet claims that the very existance of MOTU was put in danger by the Conan deal, and it was almost only because that fell through that He-Man had a chance.

[Mr. Shokoti]

But I can also see Mattel shying away from Conan. They produced childrens' toys after all.
MOTU was never presented to be as violent as Conan.

Hasbro, on the other hand, featured a lot of deaths in their cartoons(as well as a few vulgar words in their Transformers animated movie and almost went with a topless Zarana in their G.I. Joe animated movie). Sometimes those 2 companies seem as different as night and day(which hopefully means the eventual MOTU movie doesn't resemble Bay's Transformers in any way).

Now back to Savage He-Man...

Sweet claims that the very existance of MOTU was put in danger by the Conan deal, and it was almost only because that fell through that He-Man had a chance.

Thank God it did fall through!!! If Mattel had put out a Conan line instead of what became Masters Of The Universe, I'm almost positive I wouldn't be on a forum talking about it 30 years later.

[Arkangel]

Yep, the He-Man with the helmet prototype (it can be seen in our prototype section) was the first sculpt by Tony Guerro, later modified (and it was supposed to have black hair).
But also some of the early Mark Taylor drawings had helmets, but with no horns (included the Roger Sweet's prototype).
the only horned helmet I've seen on paper was in the "Vikor" art.

That's interesting, i don't know how i've forgotten about Vikor, but that would dismiss any early Helmet He-Man prototype relation with Conan.

Good!

[TheRood]

Nevermind....

[JVS3]

Hasbro, on the other hand, featured a lot of deaths in their cartoons(as well as a few vulgar words in their Transformers animated movie and almost went with a topless Zarana in their G.I. Joe animated movie). Sometimes those 2 companies seem as different as night and day(which hopefully means the eventual MOTU movie doesn't resemble Bay's Transformers in any way).

I don't remember a lot of death in their cartoons. I remember violence that could have been translated to the character was killed or knocked unconscious.
The PG-rated Transformers movie had a lot more violence, but that was robot-vs-robot which makes it less real to many folks.

Even the original MOTU mini-comics had death in them.
But, it's not graphic death, and that's the difference between these properties and Conan. Conan is VERY violent, and graphically violent as well.

As far as cursing, I remember two words in the Transformers movie. Ultra Magnus saying "damn it" and Spike dropping a four letter naughty word, which was edited out in the US VHS release later on.
That WAS a shocker as a kid, but I think that's one of the differences between a PG-rated (parental guidance) movie and a G-rated cartoon on TV.
Even the new Transformers movies that came out have some potty mouth in them, as well as sexual suggestion.

So I wouldn't say Hasbro and Mattel are all that far off each other.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a MOTU movie (if it ever happens) will be PG-13 and drop a couple mild curse words and sexual suggestion.

When you think about all of that, and how violent Conan was, I'm really not surprised Mattel shied away from the deal at the end.

[Mr. Shokoti]

I don't remember a lot of death in their cartoons. I remember violence that could have been translated to the character was killed or knocked unconscious.
The PG-rated Transformers movie had a lot more violence, but that was robot-vs-robot which makes it less real to many folks.

Since they're the stars of the show, I felt the Transformers were as real as Snake Eyes or He-Man were. The fact that Hasbro wiped out a ton of them in the movie just so they could promote their newest toys just seemed crass. The fact that the target audience were kids made it seem worse to me. They were also going to kill off Duke in the G.I. Joe movie but altered the script due to the backlash from the Transformers movie.

Even the original MOTU mini-comics had death in them.
But, it's not graphic death, and that's the difference between these properties and Conan. Conan is VERY violent, and graphically violent as well.

I haven't read most of the mini-comics in quite awhile(I'm not as well versed in them as some are) but, other than a monster here or there, I don't remember much deaths. As for Conan, I've never been a big fan. I saw his 2 movies and that's about it.

As far as cursing, I remember two words in the Transformers movie. Ultra Magnus saying "damn it" and Spike dropping a four letter naughty word, which was edited out in the US VHS release later on.
That WAS a shocker as a kid, but I think that's one of the differences between a PG-rated (parental guidance) movie and a G-rated cartoon on TV.
Even the new Transformers movies that came out have some potty mouth in them, as well as sexual suggestion.

I don't remember how much "naughty" language there was, but no matter if it was G or PG, I don't think Hasbro should have allowed it if its target audience was little kids.

So I wouldn't say Hasbro and Mattel are all that far off each other.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a MOTU movie (if it ever happens) will be PG-13 and drop a couple mild curse words and sexual suggestion.

Well, Lubic swore in the 1987 MOTU movie, but that was aimed at all audiences and not just kids(I don't know who the target audience was for Bay's 2 TF movies was but it sure as hell wasn't me). I just hope Mattel doesn't let MOTU become a fantasy laden American Pie similar to what Hasbro let Transformers turn into. I don't need to see Battle Cat urinate on anyone or Orko humping anyone's leg.

[Arkangel]

sometimes those 2 companies seem as different as night and day(which hopefully means the eventual motu movie doesn't resemble bay's transformers in any way).

word! .