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Thread: The mysterious Savage He-Man variant formerly known as "Wonder Bread He-Man"

  1. #1926
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Arkangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obbie View Post
    I don't care if he's real or not.. I just want either a "real" or custom
    do you own any customs? i dont mean just savage heman

  2. #1927
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Hoax

    I also think it is a hoax, at least the origin of it part. For a decade there has surfaced zero proof as to where the toy has come from. The toy itself has not appeared prior to the 1990s and there is zero evidence of any photographic evidence of it existing in 1981 from promotional materials to personal childhood photos.

    There is zero evidence of Mattel having any record of its production. They may not have samples of all of their produced toys but they do have records of them and product numbers associated. With all the information that has been made available to us there is not any reference to this figure.
    Is it possible that it is a legitimate figure? Maybe, but where is the pre-1990 evidence for its existence?

    Is it a cool figure and intriguing? Definitely!

    We know that it is not an offer from Wonderbread as we know they have no records of it and that the only offer with Mattel for the Masters of the Universe was the trading cards just like an offer they did with Star Wars cards and Kenner toys, both bread packages have surfaced, as well as the cards.

    We know that it is not a Conan prototype toy for the 1982 film Conan the Barbarian regardless of the amount of inspiration "borrowed" from Conan, Marvel Comics, and pre-production film materials supplied by Conan Properties Inc. to Mattel in 1980, as Mattel would have quickly lost the 1984 lawsuit CPI v Mattel if there had been an agreed upon figure between Mattel and CPI or Universal Films and the Savage He-Man was that figure, regardless of rights owned by CPI to Howard's characters.

    We know that if they did not want the figure itself copied that there would be references to the exact figure/character as different from the blonde He-Man if it existed, in the trademarks and copyrights owned by Mattel and filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and that no references to Savage He-Man by any name or description exist.

    We know that there is no history of any mail-in promotional toy or figure offer from any company Mattel, Kenner, etc that included the original coupon sent in to redeem for the figure with the figure that was sent to the consumer. The consumer would turn around and request another free toy with the coupon! We also know that there are no examples of legitimate with product codes packaging from any Mattel mail away offer having been received by a consumer related to Savage He-Man, nor is there any documentation either on the consumer end or Mattel's of a thank you for redeeming said figure letter.

    We know that the coupon in the Fowler example was a legitimate offer for a figure redemption by toy retailers at the consumer level available as a tear off to mail in offer in the toy aisle.
    We know that the maroon weapons said to belong to this mystery toy originated with the limited offer Man-E-Faces figure with free weapons referred to commonly as Man-E-Weapons. And that they are the same mold as the Castle Grayskull weapons rack weapons in an alternate color.
    We know that the black chest armor said to belong to this mystery toy originated in the Weapons Pak and is an alternate color of Zodac's armor.

    We know there are multiple people who claim to remember having one as a child or even that they mailed in to get it. There are several conflicting stories about where (what company) the offer was from as well as time-lines etc. And still no photographic evidence from a childhood photo of the figure during the 1980s. I have several of my own childhood with figures and Masters of the Universe toys readily visible, it seems someone if they actually owned it at the time would have a photo of it.

    We know that every example of a figure redemption offer through the mail from whatever company came in a factory sealed bag inside a box with product codes on it, not a taped shut bag. We also know that test shots and color samples were sent by Mattel employees for approval in bags that were taped and stapled shut (not to consumers that way). We know that there are existing Mattel mail in offers for different products (Hot Wheels, Barbie, Etc.) that have a Mattel logo printed on the plastic sealed bag the toy came in from the same time frame as the the supposed mail in Savage He-Man offer.

    We know that multiple legitimate molds for the figure existed in various parts of the world Taiwan, Mexico and Argentina's Top Toys.

    We know that it can be easily faked by customizers or produced from a legitimate mold in any color scheme one chooses.

    What we don't know is how if it is faked did multiple people come up with similar paint tones/colors and schemes at the same time from various locations?

    Could it be a Mattel test color variation that was a sample only and distributed without being a separate character or product never gaining any product code or paperwork reference? Could it have been tabled at the design stage because of the CPI v Mattel lawsuit after the Masters of the Universe line was already in production by executives or managers on a local production level so as not to open that can of worms again? Could it have been given away or stolen from Mattel by employees to get rid of a product that had incorrect colors and could not be sold under existing trademarks and copyrights?

    We will probably never know.
    Last edited by Amra; January 31, 2011 at 04:06pm. Reason: spelling

  3. #1928
    Master of Time & Space Jedi_Master_Jeremy's Avatar
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    Here's what I remember: There was a kid in my neighborhood who had all the He-man figures you could imagine. He introduced me to the line. That was just before the Filmation cartoon. He had an extra He-man that ended up being given to me and I still have it. So I'm along with my mother one day at a yard sale about 7 years later after the line ended. Mom loves yard sales so I always saw a lot of my old stuff in other people's collections. And here was a He-man with brown hair. I'd never seen one before and I just blew it off because I didn't think it was authentic and honestly by 1989 I was getting into other things. But I remember seeing one. Now in all honesty, someone could have painted it, but it was a brown haired He man with brown shorts and black boots. I thought he was a knock off. I have my own customized version but no real one. That's the closest I can come to whether or not he's real.
    It's all about being polished when it counts!

  4. #1929
    Heroic Warrior mahuti's Avatar
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    We know that it is not an offer from Wonderbread as we know they have no records of it
    No records is not the same as saying that there was not an offer. I've seen a letter from someone... probably in this thread saying that they have no recollection of the offer... or that they don't have records, but that's not surprising to me. I'm not saying that it WAS an offer from Wonderbread... only saying that lack of records is not conclusive. Having worked in advertising... I can tell you that many companies, even with all of the digital records they have nowadays would have a hard time telling you about all of their promotions from a few years ago. Marketing fields have very high turn over in employment, and the people doing the promotions are often completely disinterested in what's actually being offered. Having worked on He-man advertising during the MO2K periods... I can tell you that most of the people working with me on He-man related projects could barely remember what they were doing 3 weeks ago... let alone 8 years ago or more.
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  5. #1930
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahuti View Post
    No records is not the same as saying that there was not an offer. I've seen a letter from someone... probably in this thread saying that they have no recollection of the offer... or that they don't have records, but that's not surprising to me. I'm not saying that it WAS an offer from Wonderbread... only saying that lack of records is not conclusive. Having worked in advertising... I can tell you that many companies, even with all of the digital records they have nowadays would have a hard time telling you about all of their promotions from a few years ago. Marketing fields have very high turn over in employment, and the people doing the promotions are often completely disinterested in what's actually being offered. Having worked on He-man advertising during the MO2K periods... I can tell you that most of the people working with me on He-man related projects could barely remember what they were doing 3 weeks ago... let alone 8 years ago or more.
    I agree by itself not having records is not conclusive proof that it did not exist hence the "and" in the sentence and the conjoined idea following.

    We know that it is not an offer from Wonderbread as we know they have no records of it and that the only offer with Mattel for the Masters of the Universe was the trading cards just like an offer they did with Star Wars cards and Kenner toys, both bread packages have surfaced, as well as the cards.
    There are plenty of people who do care and would remember as well as physical evidence (packaging, photos, etc) for many advertisements. In this case the only Wonderbread offer to have substantiated proof from existing packaging and end products is the Masters of the Universe trading cards, period.

  6. #1931
    Heroic Warrior rocklord74's Avatar
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    It was an a JC Penny catalog exclusive that came in a plain brown box with no markings and included a battle cat without the helmet. That's what I've heard but again, no proof.
    My grandfather once told me that there were two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition.

  7. #1932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amra View Post
    I also think it is a hoax, at least the origin of it part. For a decade there has surfaced zero proof as to where the toy has come from. The toy itself has not appeared prior to the 1990s and there is zero evidence of any photographic evidence of it existing in 1981 from promotional materials to personal childhood photos.

    There is zero evidence of Mattel having any record of its production. They may not have samples of all of their produced toys but they do have records of them and product numbers associated. With all the information that has been made available to us there is not any reference to this figure.
    Is it possible that it is a legitimate figure? Maybe, but where is the pre-1990 evidence for its existence?

    Is it a cool figure and intriguing? Definitely!

    We know that it is not an offer from Wonderbread as we know they have no records of it and that the only offer with Mattel for the Masters of the Universe was the trading cards just like an offer they did with Star Wars cards and Kenner toys, both bread packages have surfaced, as well as the cards.

    We know that it is not a Conan prototype toy for the 1982 film Conan the Barbarian regardless of the amount of inspiration "borrowed" from Conan, Marvel Comics, and pre-production film materials supplied by Conan Properties Inc. to Mattel in 1980, as Mattel would have quickly lost the 1984 lawsuit CPI v Mattel if there had been an agreed upon figure between Mattel and CPI or Universal Films and the Savage He-Man was that figure, regardless of rights owned by CPI to Howard's characters.

    We know that if they did not want the figure itself copied that there would be references to the exact figure/character as different from the blonde He-Man if it existed, in the trademarks and copyrights owned by Mattel and filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and that no references to Savage He-Man by any name or description exist.

    We know that there is no history of any mail-in promotional toy or figure offer from any company Mattel, Kenner, etc that included the original coupon sent in to redeem for the figure with the figure that was sent to the consumer. The consumer would turn around and request another free toy with the coupon! We also know that there are no examples of legitimate with product codes packaging from any Mattel mail away offer having been received by a consumer related to Savage He-Man, nor is there any documentation either on the consumer end or Mattel's of a thank you for redeeming said figure letter.

    We know that the coupon in the Fowler example was a legitimate offer for a figure redemption by toy retailers at the consumer level available as a tear off to mail in offer in the toy aisle.
    We know that the maroon weapons said to belong to this mystery toy originated with the limited offer Man-E-Faces figure with free weapons referred to commonly as Man-E-Weapons. And that they are the same mold as the Castle Grayskull weapons rack weapons in an alternate color.
    We know that the black chest armor said to belong to this mystery toy originated in the Weapons Pak and is an alternate color of Zodac's armor.

    We know there are multiple people who claim to remember having one as a child or even that they mailed in to get it. There are several conflicting stories about where (what company) the offer was from as well as time-lines etc. And still no photographic evidence from a childhood photo of the figure during the 1980s. I have several of my own childhood with figures and Masters of the Universe toys readily visible, it seems someone if they actually owned it at the time would have a photo of it.

    We know that every example of a figure redemption offer through the mail from whatever company came in a factory sealed bag inside a box with product codes on it, not a taped shut bag. We also know that test shots and color samples were sent by Mattel employees for approval in bags that were taped and stapled shut (not to consumers that way). We know that there are existing Mattel mail in offers for different products (Hot Wheels, Barbie, Etc.) that have a Mattel logo printed on the plastic sealed bag the toy came in from the same time frame as the the supposed mail in Savage He-Man offer.

    We know that multiple legitimate molds for the figure existed in various parts of the world Taiwan, Mexico and Argentina's Top Toys.

    We know that it can be easily faked by customizers or produced from a legitimate mold in any color scheme one chooses.

    What we don't know is how if it is faked did multiple people come up with similar paint tones/colors and schemes at the same time from various locations?

    Could it be a Mattel test color variation that was a sample only and distributed without being a separate character or product never gaining any product code or paperwork reference? Could it have been tabled at the design stage because of the CPI v Mattel lawsuit after the Masters of the Universe line was already in production by executives or managers on a local production level so as not to open that can of worms again? Could it have been given away or stolen from Mattel by employees to get rid of a product that had incorrect colors and could not be sold under existing trademarks and copyrights?

    We will probably never know.
    just wanted to say - great post! ...

    anyone who is interested in wun-dar/savage he-man should read this first! ...
    ''He-Man lives and possesses that key, I must possess all or I possess nothing!'' (Skeletor, 1987)

    USE YOUR ILLUSION

  8. #1933
    Heroic Warrior Obbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
    do you own any customs? i dont mean just savage heman
    I have zero customs..

  9. #1934
    Heroic Warrior Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    It was an a JC Penny catalog exclusive that came in a plain brown box with no markings and included a battle cat without the helmet. That's what I've heard but again, no proof.
    Interesting.. Where did you hear that?
    Take a look at my deviantart. http://kaassouffle.deviantart.com/gallery/

  10. #1935
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    It was an a JC Penny catalog exclusive that came in a plain brown box with no markings and included a battle cat without the helmet. That's what I've heard but again, no proof.
    Many existing examples of catalogs all through the 1980s exist for J.C.Penney and Sears and there is no mention of any mail offer regarding Masters of the Universe. Also Mattel used a standard print on their shipping labels that included a mail to box for an address as well as product codes and a return address on their mailers.

  11. #1936
    Heroic Warrior rocklord74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amra View Post
    Many existing examples of catalogs all through the 1980s exist for J.C.Penney and Sears and there is no mention of any mail offer regarding Masters of the Universe. Also Mattel used a standard print on their shipping labels that included a mail to box for an address as well as product codes and a return address on their mailers.
    I heard it from a respectable toy dealer here locally (I've delt with him for almost 20 years). He's an older gentleman and he said he had order "savage" heman as a set with battle cat (sans helmet) and a few other figures for his son from a catalog in the mid 80's. I asked what one and he couldn't remember. Up until 5 years ago I never knew about the GI Joe Sears exclusive dreadnok vehicle sets or the crimson gaurd tank. I don't ever recall seeing these in a catalog either. I can really see it being an exclusive from a department store though. I remember going to Sears and JC Pennys with my mom when I was a kid and at the customer service desk the had a catalog there 5 times the size of the one we got in the mail. Sometimes there's a bit of truth in some roumors, you just have to dig a bit deeper into it. Just my thoughts on this enigma.

    Also Amra, you said- "We know that every example of a figure redemption offer through the mail from whatever company came in a factory sealed bag inside a box with product codes on it, not a taped shut bag." If you never seen the Mail away Clear Predator from the mid 90's, to let you know...it was taped, not sealed. Also a plain white box with no codes on it, just a barcode from the post office and the addresses on it.
    My grandfather once told me that there were two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition.

  12. #1937
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    I heard it from a respectable toy dealer here locally (I've delt with him for almost 20 years). He's an older gentleman and he said he had order "savage" heman as a set with battle cat (sans helmet) and a few other figures for his son from a catalog in the mid 80's. I asked what one and he couldn't remember. Up until 5 years ago I never knew about the GI Joe Sears exclusive dreadnok vehicle sets or the crimson gaurd tank. I don't ever recall seeing these in a catalog either. I can really see it being an exclusive from a department store though. I remember going to Sears and JC Pennys with my mom when I was a kid and at the customer service desk the had a catalog there 5 times the size of the one we got in the mail. Sometimes there's a bit of truth in some roumors, you just have to dig a bit deeper into it. Just my thoughts on this enigma.

    Also Amra, you said- "We know that every example of a figure redemption offer through the mail from whatever company came in a factory sealed bag inside a box with product codes on it, not a taped shut bag." If you never seen the Mail away Clear Predator from the mid 90's, to let you know...it was taped, not sealed. Also a plain white box with no codes on it, just a barcode from the post office and the addresses on it.
    Some companies use a numeric code, some a barcode. I'll bet it still had the product information on the outside of the box to make sure the manufacturer was shipping the right product to the consumer aside from a postal code made when postage and location were verified during the postal sorting process. Interesting about the taped shut bag on the Predator; usually Kenner had sealed bags, they did with the Star Wars line.

    The examples of the 1993 Kenner clear mail in Predator figure I see on the net appear to be sealed in the bag although I cannot be sure. They definitely have product code information on the box on a pre-printed factory label with pre-paid postage.





    If there is a larger catalog that was different from the customer one it would definitely be interesting to locate copies and see. I know Savage He-Man was not in the standard 1980-1984 Sears or JC Penney's catalogs and wishbooks. The majority of store specific exclusive items that were available by catalog were also available in store as well. The mail orders through the catalog were usually shipped in boxes that while not as colorful (usually black and white renderings of the regular existing store packaging) still had plenty of copyright and product information on them. In all of the major toy lines in the 1980s all of the existing variations were sought by collectors back then and more so as time passed including store specific or catalog only offers even if the general public was not aware of them. The Sears Star Wars Cantina Adventure set with the blue Snaggletooth error is well known and resulted from screen head shots only for production reference. I think if Savage He-Man was available similarly it would be equally well known.

    The problem would still be that the brown hair version would not be shipped if someone wanted to keep their job at Mattel because it does not conform with the standard version/authorized edition of He-Man and the figure does not reflect well the Masters of the Universe publications and marketing advertisements or the later Filmation cartoon. It does not match the figure samples or production manuals/guides relating to any of the authorized figures and could not be explained by poor reference materials for the character sent by Mattel to the production company. All of the manufactured toys had to conform to quality control standards including paint with very few acceptable changes to be allowed to reach the consumer level. The Savage He-Man has such a different scheme even different plastic colors used as well as paint to make it different enough to warrant either a separate character or never make it out the door as it would not be covered in the existing trademarks and copyrights for the Masters of the Universe line. Each character has their own trademark and copyright for their name and description/color scheme.

    Here is a picture of the 1979 Gold Cylon Commander mail away offer from Mattel for the Battlestar Galactica line.



    In the upper left is a cardboard mailer box for the same figure in a three pack as a catalog item with product code on the box. It is a known variation of the same figure mold as the original Cylon and was well advertised by Mattel with a separate product code and Copyrights and Trademarks for the new character.



    Examples of a variations making it through production to the consumer is the 1984 Mattel Secret Wars Wolverine with black claws, the 1985 Mattel Masters of the Universe Two Bad flat back or rounded re-sculpt, the Mattel 1985 Masters of the Universe dark color Grizzlor variant, or 1987 Mattel Masters of the Universe Scare Glow's glow in the dark halberd. None of these variants or any of the others known in the Masters of the Universe line drastically change the appearance of the character like the Savage He-Man and it would seem to be a different character.

    The best bet is that Savage He-Man was produced by Mattel but never intended for the public as either an authorized figure intended for employees or their families but not the general public or an unauthorized run on the equipment that made it out of the factory to a few people.

    How many "legitimate" figures exist? I would estimate in the low hundreds or fewer.

    photos from:

    cosmicbazaar.com, lurexlounge.com, and flickriver.com
    Last edited by Amra; February 2, 2011 at 12:35pm. Reason: credit photos

  13. #1938
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Arkangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obbie View Post
    I have zero customs..
    trust me on this one then, at the end of the day, you'll only be happy with the real deal

    We know that the coupon in the Fowler example was a legitimate offer for a figure redemption by toy retailers at the consumer level available as a tear off to mail in offer in the toy aisle.
    We know this already? I must have missed out
    Last edited by Arkangel; February 1, 2011 at 03:16am.

  14. #1939
    Heroic Warrior gjm679's Avatar
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    The problem would still be that the brown hair version would not be shipped if someone wanted to keep their job at Mattel because it does not conform with the standard version/authorized edition
    I wonder if anyone lost their job after the Roboto shoulder goof recently?

  15. #1940
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
    We know this already? I must have missed out
    Shows what happens when you go off memory.

    How's this?: We know that the coupon in the Fowler example was a legitimate Mattel mail in offer for a figure redemption for either Masters of the Universe, Monchhichi, Barbie, or Dazzle by sending in proofs of purchase buy 3 to get one toy free. The coupon was in color and double sided with legitimate mailing addresses and information for Mattel. We surmise that the coupon was available at toy retailers at the consumer level available as a tear off to mail in offer in the toy aisle. We know that it had nothing to do with the Savage He-Man toy other than it was placed randomly in the baggie the Fowlers bought in 2000.



    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    It was an a JC Penny catalog exclusive that came in a plain brown box with no markings and included a battle cat without the helmet. That's what I've heard but again, no proof.
    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    I heard it from a respectable toy dealer here locally (I've delt with him for almost 20 years). He's an older gentleman and he said he had order "savage" heman as a set with battle cat (sans helmet) and a few other figures for his son from a catalog in the mid 80's. I asked what one and he couldn't remember. Up until 5 years ago I never knew about the GI Joe Sears exclusive dreadnok vehicle sets or the crimson gaurd tank. I don't ever recall seeing these in a catalog either. I can really see it being an exclusive from a department store though. I remember going to Sears and JC Pennys with my mom when I was a kid and at the customer service desk the had a catalog there 5 times the size of the one we got in the mail. Sometimes there's a bit of truth in some roumors, you just have to dig a bit deeper into it. Just my thoughts on this enigma.
    Here is a picture of a JC Penney mailer box for rocklord74. If the Savage He-Man toy had been available by catalog it would have been mailed in a box similar to this and others found at grayskullmuseum.com and would have box art, separate product codes in the catalog and the box (to select the figure as opposed to the regular He-Man), and existing photographs of the figure in the catalogs; none of these things have ever surfaced.

    http://www.grayskullmuseum.com/GiftS...tSetsIndex.htm

    Last edited by Amra; February 1, 2011 at 01:18pm. Reason: add picture

  16. #1941
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Arkangel's Avatar
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    Shows what happens when you go off memory.
    I had no memory lapse whatsoever, and i still stand asking what do we know about this coupon?

    For starters that is not the Fowlers coupon, it belongs (or belonged) to a user named Fatih (PowersOfGrayskull on GSM).

    Over the years research has been made on the coupon, even with the help of hardcore Barbie collectors no evidence for what it stands for was found. But now you have at least 2 bagged Savage He-Mans (yes that one was bagged) and 2 Coupons, i can then sumrise this paper is in some way related to the figure.

    You made a good suggestion, but i'll quote you again:

    We know that the coupon in the Fowler example was a legitimate offer for a figure redemption by toy retailers at the consumer level available as a tear off to mail in offer in the toy aisle.
    We don't know that, and as far as i can recall (here's to my memory again) no Masters Of The Universe\Barbie collector remember ever seeing that piece of paper now, or back in the day.

    Just another observation about it thou, notice in it has a hanghole



    , and it seems to be a little bit stressed around.

  17. #1942
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
    I had no memory lapse whatsoever, and i still stand asking what do we know about this coupon?

    For starters that is not the Fowlers coupon, it belongs (or belonged) to a user named Fatih (PowersOfGrayskull on GSM).

    Over the years research has been made on the coupon, even with the help of hardcore Barbie collectors no evidence for what it stands for was found. But now you have at least 2 bagged Savage He-Mans (yes that one was bagged) and 2 Coupons, i can then sumrise this paper is in some way related to the figure.

    You made a good suggestion, but i'll quote you again:



    We don't know that, and as far as i can recall (here's to my memory again) no Masters Of The Universe\Barbie collector remember ever seeing that piece of paper now, or back in the day.

    Just another observation about it thou, notice in it has a hanghole

    http://wheeljack.000space.com/motu_r...nflyerback.jpg

    , and it seems to be a little bit stressed around.
    When I said:

    Shows what happens when you go off memory.
    I meant that I was the one who erroneously was relying on memory.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding! I shouldn't have said "know" as there are no absolutes in this mystery. My last post was trying to correct my error that you called me out on.

    I know that was not the Fowler's coupon as they took their photos down. But it was the same offer.

    I still however think that the coupon doesn't have anything to do with the figure because it would be ridiculous to send back to the consumer with a figure the coupon you supposedly just mailed in to receive it in the first place. And there is no evidence that any bags are authentic, either.

    Instead of a coupon included with the figure it would probably be something more like this:



    That I am trying to verify the authenticity of. And if it is authentic, if it has any bearing on this discussion or is referencing something else altogether. The possible problems with this being authentic is that there is no punctuation in the text message, there appears to be different size fonts with the "HE-MAN" letters and the capital letter "T" at the beginning, I can't tell if the paper is wrinkled where the message is or the print is not in line, and the central drawing seems fuzzy and does not appear to match the rest of the printed letterhead.
    Last edited by Amra; February 2, 2011 at 11:39am. Reason: Add picture

  18. #1943
    Heroic Warrior rocklord74's Avatar
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    Amra, You have some very good points, some I could not dispute. But I believe this guy I've dealt with for almost 20 years. If he said he ordered it from a catalog, I believe him. Your very good at finding pics (great job by the way!!) but I still have never seen any sears exclusive dreadnok or crimson guards vehicles EVER in ANY catalogs. Just because I've never seen these items in a catalog dosen't mean that it's a bootleg/fake? Maybe someone just cranked out a few sets of these toys in thier garage and threw them out in the market? Could you find some pics of those toys in a catalog?
    My grandfather once told me that there were two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition.

  19. #1944
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    I heard it from a respectable toy dealer here locally (I've delt with him for almost 20 years). He's an older gentleman and he said he had order "savage" heman as a set with battle cat (sans helmet) and a few other figures for his son from a catalog in the mid 80's. I asked what one and he couldn't remember. Up until 5 years ago I never knew about the GI Joe Sears exclusive dreadnok vehicle sets or the crimson gaurd tank. I don't ever recall seeing these in a catalog either. I can really see it being an exclusive from a department store though. I remember going to Sears and JC Pennys with my mom when I was a kid and at the customer service desk the had a catalog there 5 times the size of the one we got in the mail. Sometimes there's a bit of truth in some roumors, you just have to dig a bit deeper into it. Just my thoughts on this enigma.
    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    Amra, You have some very good points, some I could not dispute. But I believe this guy I've dealt with for almost 20 years. If he said he ordered it from a catalog, I believe him. Your very good at finding pics (great job by the way!!) but I still have never seen any sears exclusive dreadnok or crimson guards vehicles EVER in ANY catalogs. Just because I've never seen these items in a catalog dosen't mean that it's a bootleg/fake? Maybe someone just cranked out a few sets of these toys in thier garage and threw them out in the market? Could you find some pics of those toys in a catalog?
    Sears Christmas 1985 catalog page 442 I am no GI*JOE expert but am pretty sure those are the vehicles you are referring to in the bottom right corner.



    Image shared on Flickr by Wishbook

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/wishbook/

    I highly doubt that Savage He-Man was a catalog item as again no catalog pictures exist for Sears, JC Penney, Montgomery Ward, or other stores wishbooks, catalogs etc. Without a picture and product code it would be impossible to order from a catalog. There are many existing 1980-1988 catalogs and none have it.

  20. #1945
    Heroic Warrior rocklord74's Avatar
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    Awesome job again, but these are the two main ones I'm looking for pictured in a catalog.





    I believe he did buy it from a catalog, what one I have no clue?? I highly doubt Mattel would do a fund raiser type catalog, I'm kind of in the dark about this. I got a "savage" heman but I found it on ebay in a lot of others for a buy it now of $40. I asked the guy where did he get the figures and he said an estate sale, damn! I got him home and he does look like a Mattel released figure, marking and all. I think this will be solved, just when, lol??
    My grandfather once told me that there were two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition.

  21. #1946
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    Awesome job again, but these are the two main ones I'm looking for pictured in a catalog.

    I believe he did buy it from a catalog, what one I have no clue?? I highly doubt Mattel would do a fund raiser type catalog, I'm kind of in the dark about this. I got a "savage" heman but I found it on ebay in a lot of others for a buy it now of $40. I asked the guy where did he get the figures and he said an estate sale, damn! I got him home and he does look like a Mattel released figure, marking and all. I think this will be solved, just when, lol??
    Your dreadnok vehicles are on page 526 of the 1986 Sears Christmas Catalog:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/wishboo...7600988115247/

    Again if Savage He-man were from a catalog Mattel would have product numbers for it to ship from the factory were it was produced (with boxes, labels, etc) to Sears or any other department store or mail order store for them to then sell using photos of the merchandise in the catalog with product numbers and descriptions.

    Mattel has told us they have no record of Savage He-man nor do they have a licensing agreement for the toy or contract to sell said toy through any outlet. They have no record of it being produced. People have done exhaustive searches of Mattel's records looking for any reference to it. If it were a catalog item there would be a substantial paper trail as well as photographic evidence from the 1980s if not existing catalogs, shipping boxes, etc.

  22. #1947
    Heroic Warrior rocklord74's Avatar
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    Damn, your good man. I'm at a loss for this then. I can just go by what my buddy has told me. I believe he did buy it out of a catalog of some sorts. Just throwing this out there, what about a Kool-Aid offer? They had those Kool-Aid points on the back of the packets. I remember getting an Atari 2600 game but don't remember nothing else, lol. Thank you Amra for the research you've done.
    My grandfather once told me that there were two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition.

  23. #1948
    Court Magician Amra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocklord74 View Post
    Damn, your good man. I'm at a loss for this then. I can just go by what my buddy has told me. I believe he did buy it out of a catalog of some sorts. Just throwing this out there, what about a Kool-Aid offer? They had those Kool-Aid points on the back of the packets. I remember getting an Atari 2600 game but don't remember nothing else, lol. Thank you Amra for the research you've done.
    I would love to believe a trusted friend as well, but at this point we cannot trust even our own memories. We need empirical proof by way of authenticated packaging (if the figure was mailed), dated childhood photos from the 1980s showing the figure, or product numbers from Mattel or evidence that it was produced by them (factory pictures etc.) or patents registered through the US Trademark and Copyright office, or proof it was a hoax.
    Last edited by Amra; February 2, 2011 at 02:57pm. Reason: typo

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    Take this for what it's worth; in the mid to late 80's when I was in elementary school, my good childhood friend and I were talking about kid stuff and MOTU; we loved MOTU and had lots of figures and accessories; played with them all the time. I remember him saying to me (regarding our other friend) "Aaron has a He-man with brown hair" and I remember saying something like oh yeah, cool; wonder why or how he got it; something along those lines; we then just continued talking about kid stuff and brushed it off since I had no idea what would become of this figure lol; I know it's just going off of memory and doesn't mean too much but wanted to share this; I believe I remember talking about this figure back in the 80's. For what it's worth.

  25. #1950
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalhead4life View Post
    Take this for what it's worth; in the mid to late 80's when I was in elementary school, my good childhood friend and I were talking about kid stuff and MOTU; we loved MOTU and had lots of figures and accessories; played with them all the time. I remember him saying to me (regarding our other friend) "Aaron has a He-man with brown hair" and I remember saying something like oh yeah, cool; wonder why or how he got it; something along those lines; we then just continued talking about kid stuff and brushed it off since I had no idea what would become of this figure lol; I know it's just going off of memory and doesn't mean too much but wanted to share this; I believe I remember talking about this figure back in the 80's. For what it's worth.
    Where is Aaron now? Can you ask him?

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