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Thread: July MOTUC Day of sale purchases

  1. #76
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    Extra GP He-Man and Icer for custom parts.

    I think the cost and number of SDCC items people are getting or anticipating getting and a busy month for families on vacation has more to do with the longer sell-out time than anything else. Many will regret missing GP He-Man when people start posting pics...especially when they see his "sword aloft" hand on Adam and regular He-Man.
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  2. #77
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The NA figure is doing just as well as the Filmation figure, gaining the "Almost Gone" status at the same time.
    NA He-Man might have had more figures made than Icer since he is a He-Man variant, had an original figure back in the day and because he was multiple display options.
    Someone said Icer and the Filmation sub had a lukewarm reception, I said in so many words that NAHM apparently has a Lukewarm reception too, because to Scott, a figure is a failure unless it has instant sell out..... that was my point. I don't care how many figures one had over the other produced, the fact that both were available for 2 whole days means neither sold well or fast, and both had what one would consider a "lukewarm" reception. Again, this was my point....and people say sarcasm is hard to read online....you can specifically say.... this is my point....and it still gets overlooked.

    Point entirely, however missed, was, NA He-Man is still not selling as Scott or Mattel would like despite however many was made of who, even if he sells out today, he should have sold out in minutes to be whatever they thought the figure should do....otherwise they see any figure as a failure. That was my entire point, and to the fact that I see nothing that tells me despite anything Scott said, that Icer has a lukewarm reception.

    They could put out a turd in a bag, stamp MOTUC on it, and still expect it to sell within an hour.

    Hence the....

    ....if a figure doesn't sell in minutes, it's considered to have a lukewarm reception....or it just did....OK.
    ....part.

    Again, I didn't say Icer had as much DOS stock as NAHM, that was never my point, my point was entirely that if it doesn't sell in minutes, according to Scott (any figure) it's a failure, and didn't perform as Management would have liked. Besides 2013 main sub DOS stock is much lower than 2012's was....according to Scott....now, is that something you can believe? I don't know. And if so....then NAHM is doing very poor regardless.
    Again my point was that neither figure sold within 2 days....neither figure then to Mattel and Scott, did well....
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; July 17, 2013 at 12:44pm.
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  3. #78
    Totally Dyslexic Niki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Someone said Icer and the Filmation sub had a lukewarm reception, I said in so many words that NAHM apparently has a Lukewarm reception too, because to Scott, a figure is a failure unless it has instant sell out..... that was my point. I don't care how many figures one had over the other produced, the fact that both were available for 2 whole days means neither sold well or fast, and both had what one would consider a "lukewarm" reception. Again, this was my point....and people say sarcasm is hard to read online....you can specifically say.... this is my point....and it still gets overlooked.



    Again my point was that neither figure sold within 2 days....neither figure then to Mattel and Scott, did well....
    But NA He-Man sold out in less than 48 hours. And thatīs a simple fact.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    But NA He-Man sold out in less than 48 hours. And thatīs a simple fact.
    Once again....facts or not....

    MY Point....again....Fact is it took 48 hours and not 48 minutes....that is what they care about....I personally don't care who sold first....Mattel only cares that no one sold out within the first day....

    Can no one read an entire post? How about checking out the post chain that lead to this point....

    Of course Filmation will receive less attention....sadly that's the way it is, but the fact is both did not do as well as Mattel or Scott set out the new standard of a figures success....

    But due to the responses, Icer hardly has a lukewarm reception with even people who aren't that crazy about Filmation wanting or buying him, and or commenting how cool he looks. If you go back to the original 2 posts between me an someone else, you'll see this was my point....nothing more, nothing less....

    I don't like NA at all, no secret, but I was never pitting NAHM against Icer, I was using NAHM as a second point to the fact that none of the figures on sale day managed to live up to Mattel's expectations of doing well. You want a fact, that is your fact it took 48 hours to sell....Mattel wants 48 seconds for a figure to do well.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; July 17, 2013 at 01:12pm.
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  5. #80
    Totally Dyslexic Niki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Once again....facts or not....

    MY Point....again....Fact is it took 48 hours and not 48 minutes....that is what they care about....I personally don't care who sold first....Mattel only cares that no one sold out within the first day....

    Can no one read an entire post?
    I canīt speak for others but i am reading all your posts

    And yes, you are right he didnīt sell out in 48 minutes but lately no figure did. Even back in the "good" old days there were figures who didnīt sell out o the day the were released.

    Iīm just telling you, he sold out under two days nothing more

    And if you really want to know my opinion on this topic:

    It seems Mattel doesnīt care for MOTUC very much in any case.

    But we fans do or i guess we are and thatīs the only important thing for me and that it keeps on going on!
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  6. #81
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    I canīt speak for others but i am reading all your posts

    And yes, you are right he didnīt sell out in 48 minutes but lately no figure did. Even back in the "good" old days there were figures who didnīt sell out o the day the were released.

    Iīm just telling you, he sold out under two days nothing more

    And if you really want to know my opinion on this topic:

    It seems Mattel doesnīt care for MOTUC very much in any case.

    But we fans do or i guess we are and thatīs the only important thing for me and that it keeps on going on!
    Problem is, you can't compare what the line did in the glory days over what is a line that is seemingly limping along today....what Mattel wanted in 2009 is not what they want or expect today....if that was the case, we wouldn't have a sub as the be all end all. We'd have re-issues and DOS stock where it didn't matter if a figure stayed around for a week.

    You're right....he did sell out within 48 hours, but the powers that be see that in 2013 as not doing so well. And by that fact alone, no they are not putting faith into the line as they once did....and the fact they are moaning about the BR not doing a PO....when they have the one thing that they can sell it with and begin work just after a pass....the sculpt. Just because they likely over estimated how well the WR would do....and overproduced enough to last a year and a half.... Of course it did poorly....

    We are the only thing keeping the line going, and sadly someday even that won't be enough for Mattel to care.

    And the problem is with DOS....and what I find absolutely funny....

    Scott says they base how well a figure does on the DOS stock....YET, says in the same breath DOS means nothing to Mattel....
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  7. #82
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Can no one read an entire post? How about checking out the post chain that lead to this point....
    The FACT is that YOU DO NOT KNOW how Matty measures "success" when it comes to figures selling. The only real information they provide us is "Almost Gone" and "Sold Out." You can only guess by looking at the time frame there whether something is selling well or not. If an item sells out quickly, it's obviously a success. But, for slower sell outs like Icer and GP He-Man you DO NOT KNOW what their goals are. Maybe they wanted Icer to sell out quickly, and GP He-Man stock to sit around for a while. Nowhere does it say that a figure has to sell out instantly to be considered a success. Quite frankly, we DO NOT KNOW what Mattel considers a success, because they hide that calculation from us.

    Imagine this scenario: they ordered 400 Icers to sell DOS, and expected them (based on sales of other, similar characters) to sell at about 100 Icers per hour. Let's say that what actually happened was that they sold 100 Icers in the first hour, and have been selling 20 Icers per hour since then (with it slowly trickling off). Would you not say that that is a "lukewarm reception" and disappointing from Mattel's end?

    On the flip side, let's imagine that they ordered 4800 GP He-Mans to sell DOS (since he's a He-Man, and they expected him to sell a lot more). Let's say they expected him to sell about 100 per hour, and that's what he sold. Would that be disappointing? No, it would not.

    Simple fact of the matter is WE DO NOT KNOW THESE NUMBERS OR THEIR EXPECTATIONS. So, anything on our part is speculation and conjecture, which you seem to be putting forth as cold hard facts.
    Last edited by goluphi; July 17, 2013 at 01:40pm.
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  8. #83
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    The FACT is that YOU DO NOT KNOW how Matty measures "success" when it comes to figures selling. The only real information they provide us is "Almost Gone" and "Sold Out." You can only guess by looking at the time frame there whether something is selling well or not. If an item sells out quickly, it's obviously a success. But, for slower sell outs like Icer and GP He-Man you DO NOT KNOW what their goals are. Maybe they wanted Icer to sell out quickly, and GP He-Man stock to sit around for a while. Nowhere does it say that a figure has to sell out instantly to be considered a success. Quite frankly, we DO NOT KNOW what Mattel considers a success, because they hide that calculation from us.

    Imagine this scenario: they ordered 400 Icers to sell DOS, and expected them (based on sales of other, similar characters) to sell at about 100 Icers per hour. Let's say that what actually happened was that they sold 100 Icers in the first hour, and have been selling 20 Icers per hour since then (with it slowly trickling off). Would you not say that that is a "lukewarm reception" and disappointing from Mattel's end?

    On the flip side, let's imagine that they ordered 4800 GP He-Mans to sell DOS (since he's a He-Man, and they expected him to sell a lot more). Let's say they expected him to sell about 100 per hour, and that's what he sold. Would that be disappointing? No, it would not.

    Simple fact of the matter is WE DO NOT KNOW THESE NUMBERS OR THEIR EXPECTATIONS. So, anything on our part is speculation and conjecture, which you seem to be putting forth as cold hard facts.
    Wow, just wow....fact of the matter is, yes I do know (basically)....based on what Scott has said time and time again....and it's all over this board and over at Matty forums....you can find it all, if you look.

    We do know Scott's expectations, he told us many times what Mattel expects from the line, anyone reading his answers and responses for the last 2 years knows this....and it has changed greatly over the last year what the expectations are....they are much tighter and almost seemingly demanded results....hence why we're not getting the BR, even as a PO....the WR sold poorly, and for all we know they had 1000 units to get rid of for the last year and a half....

    I am not talking numbers, I am talking time....I have read every Q&A since July 2011....I know what Scott says, and how they measure a figures success, especially since mid 2012 when they had to resort to Blastic just to cut costs....if a figure doesn't sell within a certain amount of time, they consider it bad.... and 48 hours while not overly bad, is not very good either....not in 2013. This is not 2009 when a figure does well even after taking a week to sell out.

    Say what you want, believe what you want, I'll go by what Scott says, regardless on how it gets spun later.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; July 17, 2013 at 02:05pm.
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  9. #84
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Wow, just wow....fact of the matter is, yes I do know....I know what Scott has said time and time again....

    We do know Scott's expectations, he told us many times what Mattel expects from the line, anyone reading his answers and responses for the last 2 years knows this....and it has changed greatly over the last year what the expectations are....they are much tighter and almost seemingly demanded results....hence why we're not getting the BR, even as a PO....the WR sold poorly, and for all we know they had 1000 units to get rid of for the last year and a half....

    I am not talking numbers, I am talking time....I have been around long enough to know what Scott uses as a measurement for success for this line....simply put, if a figure takes days instead of hours to sell it's done poorly....this is not 2009 when a figure does well even after taking a week to sell out.

    You seriously miss the point....I have read every Q&A since July 2011....I know what Scott says, and how they measure a figures success, especially since mid 2012 when they had to resort to Blastic just to cut costs....if a figure doesn't sell within a certain amount of time, they consider it bad.... and 48 hours while not overly bad, is not very good either....not in 2013.

    Say what you want, believe what you want, I'll go by what Scott says, regardless on how it gets spun later.
    No, you do not know. You can only guess. I have read all those Q&As as well. If there's something concrete I missed, I would be glad to hear it. What you are saying doesn't make sense. The only real measure of success that would make sense to look at is units sold per hour/day, which is a number we don't have access to, we can only guess based upon how quickly things sell out. Sell out time means nothing if we don't know how many they sold in that time.

    A figure taking a long time to sell can SOMETIMES mean it hasn't sold well, but you can't know that for a fact unless you know how quickly they were expecting the figure to sell, which you simply do not, and no one is coming forth and sharing that info. If they were expecting Icer to sell out in 10 minutes, and it's taken two days, that's a disappointment. If they were expecting NA He-Man to last a week in the store, and it took two days to sell out, that's a success. Them being "Almost Gone" at the same time tells us almost nothing.

    Also, blastic was not a cost cutting measure, it was a design choice. Painted parts look better than bare plastic parts (until paint starts chipping, of course). The design team wanted figures to be painted black plastic (like NECA figures - which no one seems to complain about). Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well.
    Last edited by goluphi; July 17, 2013 at 02:09pm.
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  10. #85
    Totally Dyslexic Niki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post


    Wow, just wow....fact of the matter is, yes I do know....I know what Scott has said time and time again....

    We do know Scott's expectations, he told us many times what Mattel expects from the line, anyone reading his answers and responses for the last 2 years knows this....and it has changed greatly over the last year what the expectations are....they are much tighter and almost seemingly demanded results....hence why we're not getting the BR, even as a PO....the WR sold poorly, and for all we know they had 1000 units to get rid of for the last year and a half....

    I am not talking numbers, I am talking time....I have been around long enough to know what Scott uses as a measurement for success for this line....simply put, if a figure takes days instead of hours to sell it's done poorly....this is not 2009 when a figure does well even after taking a week to sell out.

    You seriously miss the point....I have read every Q&A since July 2011....I know what Scott says, and how they measure a figures success, especially since mid 2012 when they had to resort to Blastic just to cut costs....if a figure doesn't sell within a certain amount of time, they consider it bad.... and 48 hours while not overly bad, is not very good either....

    Say what you want, believe what you want, I'll go by what Scott says, regardless on how it gets spun later.
    Now thatīs tricky….

    He is one of the biggest MOTU fans out there. He became what he always dreamed of, he is the Master of modern MOTU/POP/NA/SON and created his own faction the Time Agents. He defined this toyline and his characters in a totally new way.

    Sometimes he seems to be a really cool guy, sometimes he feels very distant and sometimes he seem sot be rude(...sounds like every other human being i know...)

    And these are all facts as well.

    And i again i canīt speak for others but for myself but if i had those opportunities he has, i would lie, cheat and do anything to keep my powers so i can fulfill my dream.
    Iīm glad he is that headstrong and yes, i donīt agree with him all the time and sometimes i donīt get what MOTUC is all about but iīm a fan and iīm happy i can enjoy MOTUC(most of the time).

    So what i am trying to say here is:

    As long as we the the people who pay can afford MOTUC Scott-TOYGURU-Neitlich will make anything in his power to give as figures for our money.
    And thatīs a fact.
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  11. #86
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    No, you do not know. You can only guess. I have read all those Q&As as well. If there's something concrete I missed, I would be glad to hear it. What you are saying doesn't make sense. The only real measure of success is units sold per hour/day, which is a number we don't have access to, we can only guess based upon how quickly things sell out.

    A figure taking a long time to sell can SOMETIMES mean it hasn't sold well, but you can't know that for a fact unless you know how quickly they were expecting the figure to sell, which you simply do not, and no one is coming forth and sharing that info. If they were expecting Icer to sell out in 10 minutes, and it's taken two days, that's a disappointment. If they were expecting NA He-Man to last a week in the store, and it took two days to sell out, that's a success.

    Also, blastic was not a cost cutting measure, it was a design choice. Painted parts look better than bare plastic parts (until paint starts chipping, of course). The design team wanted figures to be painted black plastic (like NECA figures - which no one seems to complain about). Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well.
    OK, whatever....I know what I read, plainly and clearly.... If you wish to believe that a figure sitting for 2 days or longer in 2013 is a sign the figure has done well....then so be it.

    They will not expect a figure to last more than a few hours to a day at most, as I said, this is not 2009, they want the figures gone, as fast as possible. This is the final days of MOTUC in Mattel's eyes, to them the line ran it's course a year ago at SDCC time when the subs needed so long to sell through. They are not going to want anything to shelf warm for any longer than possible....especially when they are making the bare minimum amount of DOS figures (once again, Scott has said this)....

    We don't have Mattel numbers, we have Scott's say so....certainly if a figure that has smaller stock sells longer than a figure with more stock....then it's done worse, but NAHM may have performed well for an NA figure, and looks as if better than Icer, but not for a MOTUC figure in general in 2013.

    And if you think Blastic was not a cost cutting measure, you know nothing about what Scott said, or know nothing about plastic in general.

    And painted figures looking better, is an opinion (are you saying it's a fact?)....I am just as happy with non painted figures.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Now thatīs tricky….

    He is one of the biggest MOTU fans out there. He became what he always dreamed of, he is the Master of modern MOTU/POP/NA/SON and created his own faction the Time Agents. He defined this toyline and his characters in a totally new way.

    Sometimes he seems to be a really cool guy, sometimes he feels very distant and sometimes he seem sot be rude(...sounds like every other human being i know...)

    And these are all facts as well.

    And i again i canīt speak for others but for myself but if i had those opportunities he has, i would lie, cheat and do anything to keep my powers so i can fulfill my dream.
    Iīm glad he is that headstrong and yes, i donīt agree with him all the time and sometimes i donīt get what MOTUC is all about but iīm a fan and iīm happy i can enjoy MOTUC(most of the time).

    So what i am trying to say here is:

    As long as we the the people who pay can afford MOTUC Scott-TOYGURU-Neitlich will make anything in his power to give as figures for our money.
    And thatīs a fact.
    I'm not saying it's all not some kind of Marketing ploy, I believe most of it is, tell us what we want to hear, then rebut or change it later.

    He is a MOTU fan and sometimes doesn't think of the line as a line he manages, but as his personal vision of MOTU, I mean he wrote the bios, he was behind the dialog in the Mini Comics, he made the road map....that is sometimes the problem I see.

    And I too love MOTUC, and hope it goes past 2015....I do love the figures, even the ones I don't like are still well sculpted and nice in their own right.
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  12. #87
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    And if you think Blastic was not a cost cutting measure, you know nothing about what Scott said, or know nothing about plastic in general.

    And painted figures looking better, is an opinion (are you saying it's a fact?)....I am just as happy with non painted figures.
    Casting figures in black plastic to save money doesn't make sense. While you're saving by money by doing that, your painting process has now gotten a whole lot more expensive, because you have to paint ALL of EVERY piece. I think it's mainly done (by other companies as well - look at NECA's stuff) because they feel it creates a better looking product.

    We must be reading different Q&As, or you know nothing about what Scott has said:

    Seriously?

    Painted shoulders for Dragon Blaster Skeletor? Really? For a top dollar collectable action figure and you guys can't mold the plastic in the Skeletor blue, like you did for the rest of the figure, or all the prior figures?

    And no, this isn't a "design choice" or "deco-choice," or whatever other excuse you might choose to throw around. It was someone's decision to do this, and it was a bone-headed one at that. This kind of crap needs to stop, or there will be no figures in 2014, because we the fans are feeling that quality issues such as this make the figures not worth our time and hard-earned money.

    I mean, Mekaneck's crooked helmet, Frosta's horrible face and arm issue, and now DB Skeletor.

    Come on, these figures used to rock! Make them rock again!

    As you said, this was someone's choice and that someone was Ruben and his design team. Clearly this is something fan do not like and I have passed these comments to him for consideration and review. Any images would help too.
    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...September-2012

    Painting over black plastic was a design choice. They thought it looked better. I'm not saying it's a fact that it always look better (in this case, it was kind of a disaster because paint started flaking off), but painted plastic definitely has the potential to look better. Painted faces on characters almost always look better.

    Also, the colors of a piece of painted plastic can look nicer, and have a more consistent look than bare plastic. The matte look of a painted piece also looks a little higher quality than a bare, glossy piece of plastic. I think that there's some merit to casting figures in black plastic, but the results were questionable for the MOTUC line (Meckaneck for example looks good, but I think he would have looked just as good cast in blue plastic with some darker highlights).
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
    http://thefwoosh.com/2014/06/masters...beyond-vintage

  13. #88
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    Casting figures in black plastic to save money doesn't make sense. While you're saving by money by doing that, your painting process has now gotten a whole lot more expensive, because you have to paint ALL of EVERY piece. I think it's mainly done (by other companies as well - look at NECA's stuff) because they feel it creates a better looking product.

    We must be reading different Q&As, or you know nothing about what Scott has said:



    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...September-2012

    Painting over black plastic was a design choice. They thought it looked better. I'm not saying it's a fact that it always look better (in this case, it was kind of a disaster because paint started flaking off), but painted plastic definitely has the potential to look better. Painted faces on characters almost always look better.

    Also, the colors of a piece of painted plastic can look nicer, and have a more consistent look than bare plastic. The matte look of a painted piece also looks a little higher quality than a bare, glossy piece of plastic. I think that there's some merit to casting figures in black plastic, but the results were questionable for the MOTUC line (Meckaneck for example looks good, but I think he would have looked just as good cast in blue plastic with some darker highlights).
    I work in injection molding, so thanks for thinking you know what you are talking about....

    Black plastic is far cheaper than colored plastic, black plastic can be made of regrind, which is old errors ground up, any colors, doesn't matter....and black dye is added....Plus every piece of the figure can be included in the same tooling, no need for 5 runs in different colors for one figure.... = cheaper....

    Black plastic was later admitted to be a cost saving issue despite being a design choice....yes the design team made the choice, but it was to cut costs.... In case you missed it they cut deco and accessories too, that was also a design choice too, but it was all done to cut costs and keep the figures at $20 & $22.... I saw no where that they said it looked better....but I guess cutting deco was done to make the figure look better too.

    I read that Q&A, nowhere did it say it was done for aesthetics, and about the NECA figures....they can be bought for $20....

    And despite what you say....painting a figure is still an opinion....yours, not mine.

    When the figure is painted as a whole....it's cheaper because a machine does it, then the fine details are hand painted after....paint is cheaper than plastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru View Post
    Hey guys!

    Okay so a few days until Power Con 2: The repowering. Couldn't be more excited.

    I didn't want to wait for this weekend to give a few updates.

    First off, the whole "black plastic issue". I did as reported note this for design and they have told me they will try to explore other cost saving issues starting with Dekker. They can't guarantee he will be the last figure to be molded together, but they have noted this ideally won't continue on 2013. Heard you loud and clear. BUT: I do need to note that a few more images would have helped. We had (as of this post) about 22 replies to my request. Honestly, that is pretty much within a margin of QC error. We make thousands of each figure. It really takes hundreds of images to show design that a change is needed. 30 or so images is a bit hard to bait a hook with. But I did make the case and they will see what can be done starting with Dekker (the next figure it is possible to make a change to). If anything like this happens again, I can't stress enough the importance of images. Design needs to see how extensive an issue is. 30 or so images really isn't enough to illustrate this is widespread as QC will always happen. Every figure is hand painted and hand made. But they have agreed to look into the black issue. Just next time, please more images. It will make changes easier and faster. Less begging on my part...! ;-)

    The whole Frosta issue is still being looked into. We RFP'd a few samples to review to see whether or not the figure has assembly issues or if some of the PR samples were legit errors. As soon as I know more I will let you all know. But we are looking into it. The Mattel "instruction" samples was definitely correct so we need to see whether or not their was human error in assembly. These things do happen but we will look into how much (if any) of the actual production was affected. Too early to know right now.

    We also know there were a few accidental early orders that went out this month. I can confirm less than 50 were shipped we did figure out what happened to the coding that allowed this to go through and fixed it for next time. Sorry for any confusion.

    Hopefully more updates at Power Con. Until then, keep them power swords sharp!

    SdN

    PS: Dying to know what you all think of mini comic 3! All three are really meant to be one story. Issue 3 really brings it home!

    PPS: Sorry for the type-o in the thread name. Didn't see that until after I saved.
    Blastic was done as a cost saving measure....anything else?
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; July 17, 2013 at 03:45pm.
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  14. #89
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    I work in injection molding, so thanks for thinking you know what you are talking about....
    I think we all know this, you only mention it in every other thread.

    Black plastic is far cheaper than colored plastic, black plastic can be made of regrind, which is old errors ground up, any colors, doesn't matter....and black dye is added....Plus every piece of the figure can be included in the same tooling, no need for 5 runs in different colors for one figure.... = cheaper....
    Thank you for this insight, it makes sense, hadn't heard this before. However, I already said that I knew that the black plastic itself was a cost saving:

    While you're saving by money by doing that
    My main issue was, how much of a cost saving could it possibly be, when they have to paint every part. Painting is not "cheap." Rattlor had to have his 200X Harness cut because he had more paint apps than they expected.

    If painting done by machine, you have to make paint masks. If not, you're paying people to do it by hand (and while Chinese labour is cheap, it still costs money). And, yes, they do paint stuff by hand in MOTUC (just look at the Netossa black spot debacle).

    And NECA figures are $20 because of a wider distribution area. MOTUC figures would be just as cheap if they made as many.

    Doesn't make sense to me that they were doing black plastic as a cost saving, I think this is one of those times that maybe ToyGuru had a miscommunication with his designers. I don't buy it.
    Last edited by goluphi; July 17, 2013 at 04:35pm.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
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    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    I think we all know this, you only mention it in every other thread.



    Thank you for this insight, it makes sense, hadn't heard this before. However, I already said that I knew that the black plastic itself was a cost saving:



    My main issue was, how much of a cost saving could it possibly be, when they have to paint every part. Painting is not "cheap." Rattlor had to have his 200X Harness cut because he had more paint apps than they expected.

    If painting done by machine, you have to make paint masks. If not, you're paying people to do it by hand (and while Chinese labour is cheap, it still costs money). And, yes, they do paint stuff by hand in MOTUC (just look at the Netossa black spot debacle).

    And NECA figures are $20 because of a wider distribution area. MOTUC figures would be just as cheap if they made as many.
    It is still cheaper....and the whole point is about Blastic in MOTUC....And I never said MOTUC stuff wasn't hand painted....you are not going to get such flawless coverage of a part if it is hand painted...and if you look at certain figures, you can see spray patterns.... And you don't need paint masks when an entire part is painted then hand painted the other colors over it.

    Mek's thighs, one color painted....then a wash is hand applied over that. Every part on the Blastic MOTUC figures is painted by a machine one solid base color then the hand painted details come later, no need for masking. It's no different than painting a custom it's base coat.

    No, you didn't ever say in this thread, in your replies, you knew Black plastic was for cost savings, you spent posts trying to prove it was a design choice and for aesthetics and NOT for cost savings....

    Casting figures in black plastic to save money doesn't make sense. While you're saving by money by doing that, your painting process has now gotten a whole lot more expensive, because you have to paint ALL of EVERY piece. I think it's mainly done (by other companies as well - look at NECA's stuff) because they feel it creates a better looking product.
    Also, blastic was not a cost cutting measure, it was a design choice. Painted parts look better than bare plastic parts (until paint starts chipping, of course). The design team wanted figures to be painted black plastic (like NECA figures - which no one seems to complain about). Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well.
    Or did you forget you just posted this?
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  16. #91
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    No, you didn't ever say in this thread, in your replies, you knew Black plastic was for cost savings
    Casting figures in black plastic to save money doesn't make sense. While you're saving by money by doing that


    In case you are unclear, THAT refers to "casting figures in black plastic" (the subject of the previous sentence). Put it all together:

    While you're saving by money by doing [casting figures in black plastic]
    So yes, I did say it. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear, I will try to speak more simply next time.

    And, yes, I think it was an aesthetic choice (and no, I didn't say it always looked better, I said I thought the designers thought it looked better). Casting in black plastic definitely saved them money on plastic, but I think any savings there were mitigated by having to put a coat of paint on everything.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
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  17. #92
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  18. #93
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    NA He-Man finally sold out after over 2 days

    Icer is still available...

  19. #94
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post


    In case you are unclear, THAT refers to "casting figures in black plastic" (the subject of the previous sentence). Put it all together:



    So yes, I did say it. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear, I will try to speak more simply next time.

    And, yes, I think it was an aesthetic choice (and no, I didn't say it always looked better, I said I thought the designers thought it looked better). Casting in black plastic definitely saved them money on plastic, but I think any savings there were mitigated by having to put a coat of paint on everything.
    You still implied that casting in black plastic did not save money because of them needing to be painted, when paint is cheaper than plastic, and the whole process related to the casting of many colors at once is much more cost involved than casting everything from one color.

    You, never said....ever, you believed that it saved money, ever. Spin your words however you wish, I know what you meant.

    Finish your statement, and everyone can see exactly what you meant....

    While you're saving by money by doing that, your painting process has now gotten a whole lot more expensive, because you have to paint ALL of EVERY piece. I think it's mainly done (by other companies as well - look at NECA's stuff) because they feel it creates a better looking product.
    You never acknowledged it actually saves money, you were only using it as to why you thought it made no sense to cast in black then paint....because it would still be as much, when, it indeed would not cost the same. And it was never an aesthetic choice, it was done for the savings of money. Other lines do it, because yeah, it may look slightly better for some things, but it saves them money in the end.

    I read, you're the one who made it seem like Scott never acknowledged it was a cost cutting measure, and I gave you a Scott post that proved it, after you tried to use a Q&A for your point, and now, you're going back on what you said....trying to make it seem by convenience of word placement that you said something different.

    Also, blastic was not a cost cutting measure, it was a design choice.
    Wanna break this one down for me too, so I can get it? Or did you NOT say this as well?
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; July 17, 2013 at 06:29pm.
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  20. #95
    Vintage Vintage Vintage Vlcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker79 View Post
    NA He-Man finally sold out after over 2 days

    Icer is still available...
    No kidding. NA fans that wanted a separate sub line for themselves can say goodbye. The A listers can't even sell out quickly. And a sub par Filmation character almost beat him. Although the 4H turned him into a great figure. Icer looks awesome.

  21. #96
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    You still implied that casting in black plastic did not save money because of them needing to be painted, when paint is cheaper than plastic, and the whole process related to the casting of many colors at once is much more cost involved than casting everything from one color.

    You, never said....ever, you believed that it saved money, ever. Spin your words however you wish, I know what you meant.

    Finish your statement, and everyone can see exactly what you meant....



    You never acknowledged it actually saves money, you were only using it as to why you thought it made no sense to cast in black then paint....because it would still be as much, when, it indeed would not cost the same. And it was never an aesthetic choice, it was done for the savings of money. Other lines do it, because yeah, it may look slightly better for some things, but it saves them money in the end.

    I read, you're the one who made it seem like Scott never acknowledged it was a cost cutting measure, and I gave you a Scott post that proved it, after you tried to use a Q&A for your point, and now, you're going back on what you said....trying to make it seem by convenience of word placement that you said something different.



    Wanna break this one down for me too, so I can get it? Or did you NOT say this as well?
    The VERY FIRST THING I said was that I knew it was cheaper to cast figures in black plastic. I didn't go into detail on this, because I thought it was pretty obvious and well known. The fact that you're so caught up on this is only because you refuse to admit that you didn't read what I was saying correctly.

    Let me break this down for you real simple what I was saying:

    1) The design team was looking for a way to make figures look better
    2) The design team decided that they wanted to totally paint the figures, because they thought paint looked better than bare plastic.
    3) They decided to use black plastic underneath, because black plastic is cheaper, both as a material, and because they can cast multiple items in one mold and then paint them different colors.
    4) This process may or may not have actually saved money, but I don't think the INTENTION of it was to save money. Casting in black plastic is cheaper, but painting a whole figure is not "cheap." Likely, it ended up being about the same, if not more, to paint the figures.

    It's all about the design team's INTENTION. This is what I've been trying to say this time. I do not think they were trying to cut costs by using black plastic, I think they were trying to make the figures look better. Therefore, it was not a cost cutting measure.

    I'm not totally convinced that it's cheaper either. I mentioned the NECA figures as an example. They use blastic, and they are a high end toy line. The only toys I've ever seen that use blastic are high end toy lines. If it was true that the cheapest method was always to use black plastic, and paint over it, we would see a lot more low end toy lines using blastic. But that is not the case. On lower end toy lines, I have only ever seen them casting in colored plastic.
    Last edited by goluphi; July 17, 2013 at 07:25pm.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
    http://thefwoosh.com/2014/06/masters...beyond-vintage

  22. #97
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    The VERY FIRST THING I said was that I knew it was cheaper to cast figures in black plastic. I didn't go into detail on this, because I thought it was pretty obvious and well known. The fact that you're so caught up on this is only because you refuse to admit that you didn't read what I was saying correctly.

    Let me break this down for you real simple what I was saying:

    1) The design team was looking for a way to make figures look better
    2) The design team decided that they wanted to totally paint the figures, because they thought paint looked better than bare plastic.
    3) They decided to use black plastic underneath, because black plastic is cheaper, both as a material, and because they can cast multiple items in one mold and then paint them different colors.
    4) This process may or may not have actually saved money, but I don't think the INTENTION of it was to save money. Casting in black plastic is cheaper, but painting a whole figure is not "cheap." Likely, it ended up being about the same, if not more, to paint the figures.

    It's all about the design team's INTENTION. This is what I've been trying to say this time. I do not think they were trying to cut costs by using black plastic, I think they were trying to make the figures look better. Therefore, it was not a cost cutting measure.
    This is just sad now.

    The design team intended to cut costs....end of story, Scott even eluded to that fact, nowhere was it ever said or admitted to, that they did it for aesthetics.... It's funny at the same time they cut deco, and cut accessories.... decided to make the entire figure from black plastic, and paint it, they were simply trying to make a figure more aesthetically appealing, after almost 4 years of being done the same way.... And I'm supposed to believe that? We're all supposed to believe that?

    You never, ever said, or admitted to, until I posted what Scott said....that you thought that black plastics was cheaper, and your very comments here and prior to, contradict themselves.

    And you're breaking things down so you don't look like you said one thing before, and now saying a totally different thing....

    I know what I said, I know what you said, inferred and implied....I'm sticking to what I said, you however have not.

    I already proved to you with something direct from Scott, it was a cost cutting reason, not for aesthetics, and I tried to explain to you so you could understand, how it works about painting vs molding in colors....and you still insist you are correct.... OK fine, you believe they did it for reasons you believe, then I'll call it your opinion and accept and respect that....now with respect for everyone else I am ending this now.
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  23. #98
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    This is just sad now.

    The design team intended to cut costs....end of story, Scott even eluded to that fact, nowhere was it ever said or admitted to, that they did it for aesthetics.... It's funny at the same time they cut deco, and cut accessories.... decided to make the entire figure from black plastic, and paint it, they were simply trying to make a figure more aesthetically appealing, after almost 4 years of being done the same way.... And I'm supposed to believe that? We're all supposed to believe that?

    You never, ever said, or admitted to, until I posted what Scott said....that you thought that black plastics was cheaper, and your very comments here and prior to, contradict themselves.

    And you're breaking things down so you don't look like you said one thing before, and now saying a totally different thing....

    I know what I said, I know what you said, inferred and implied....I'm sticking to what I said, you however have not.

    I already proved to you with something direct from Scott, it was a cost cutting reason, not for aesthetics, and I tried to explain to you so you could understand, how it works about painting vs molding in colors....and you still insist you are correct.... OK fine, you believe they did it for reasons you believe, then I'll call it your opinion and accept and respect that....now with respect for everyone else I am ending this now.
    I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying, which is fine. I know that I know what I'm saying, and I know I haven't changed what I'm saying, only rephrased it. The only way to really settle this would be to have someone from Mattel's design team who was involved in the process tell us for sure.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
    http://thefwoosh.com/2014/06/masters...beyond-vintage

  24. #99
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    After 2 1/2 days Icer is...still available

    Buy that sucker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlcan View Post
    No kidding. NA fans that wanted a separate sub line for themselves can say goodbye. The A listers can't even sell out quickly. And a sub par Filmation character almost beat him. Although the 4H turned him into a great figure. Icer looks awesome.
    Still a wee bit startled that after all these years people think this means anything. It MIGHT. But it's also very possible a main He-man variant had a lot more made than a Filmation figure. Or maybe vice versa. We don't know.
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