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I think PoP should have had a greater presence in MOTUC prior to 2014.
While I think there have been some ... errors in judgement along the way, including the release of the Star Sisters before so many more important and fan-demanded PoP characters, there's no reason that PoP couldn't and shouldn't have had a greater presence in MOTUC. In fact, IF PoP had been included on a more regular basis and IF Mattel had released some of the more creature-based designs such as Angella, Sweet-Bee, Mermista and Flutterina, then I think there would have been a wider and greater appreciation for PoP in MOTUC.
In general, Adora, Bow, She-Ra, Catra, BP She-Ra and Swift-wind all appeared to be widely well received. The issues with the Star Sisters, Frosta and Netossa are well known and with the exception of the Star Sisters were due to Mattel's handling and decisions in respect of those figures. Castaspella looks like she will also be near universally well received.
The fact that it will have taken until 2014 to complete the core trio of PoP with the release of Glimmer speaks volumes. I can only imagine the outcry if the release of Teela or Man-at-Arms had been delayed until 2014. Not only have there been issues with the production quality of some of the PoP figures, but the character choices have also been confounding given it is now late 2013 and there are still so many A-Listers which haven't even been confirmed for a release, including Queen Angella, Mermista and Madame Razz.
"Monsters & Muscles" needs to get TMed quickly!
Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; August 9, 2013 at 04:23am.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).
Well... I for one am glad they did it the way they did. I mean who better than those that make these toys is there to decide? Bravo Mattel and Scott and the 4-H... Thank you for bringing such an awesome toy line this far along. Despite all the "mistakes" you apparently make.
I personally hope that we get Maddam Razz and Broom in 2014. They are rather high on my want list, and I don't want to wait until 2015 to get them.
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I actually found ToyGuru's recent video about the 2014 subs to be funny when he used the term "A-List" characters and started referencing some of those characters and other akin to them. Just because something was simply in the vintage MOTU line does not mean that it is by default "A-list" or "most wanted." That would be like saying any and all Filmation characters are by default "A-list" or "extremely wanted," including some random background villager. Honestly I think it's more important to get the main POP characters out rather than the characters from late in the vintage MOTU line that many fans didn't even have or want back then.
Everyone's opinions will vary. Heck, even my feelings on POP are mixed. I am a fan of the Filmation toon (particularly the SOTS movie), so I'm glad that the figures have largely leaned in favor of the cartoon look rather than the toy looks (though it's fine adding in toy details like they did for BP She-Ra). I also do think the POP characters that are going to be the toughest sell going forward (and admitedly the ones that I have less interest in than others) will be those that seem to have 'girly' names/themes like "Perfuma."
But core characters like Glimmer and Angela, and even core POP Filmation characters like Scorpia and Maddam Razz (in addition to ones that we've already gotten like Adora, She-Ra, Bow, Frosta, and Catra) are all character desired by many and absolutely should be in this line. As a kid I did have a small handful of the POP figures. I was never really a fan of that line in-and-of itself.... I just begrudingly had those versions to use with my MOTU figures for lack of any alternate toy representation of the characters. Having a line that not only makes the characters from both in a consistent figure form, but also uses the more familiar cartoon designs for those main characters is a dream come true for me! And for the record, I am straight and married (not that it matters, but just clarifying).
I mean really, after Two-Bad and Modulock, and maybe the remaining Snake Men (and even they are pushing it), most of the remaining figures really fall into a category of obscurity given that they were towards the end of the line, had almost no media representation except for the movie characters, and honestly being that the people behind the scenes making the line changed so much, it seems the direction of the line changed as well. The combination of the designs themselves and the move to have less reuse of parts (which one would think would be a good thing) actually resulted in a lot of figures that felt like they just belonged in another toyline altogether, possibly several different toylines. Even Ninjor who did reuse parts still feels WAY too out of place given the end result of his look. I actually am looking forward to Gwildor if we get him, but aside from him, Two-Bad, Modulock, and maybe the remaining Snakemen, I can't think of any other vintage character offhand that I "really" want or would be upset over if they didn't get made before the line ends.
But I do want the core POP characters from the toon and toyline (but still in favor of the 'toon designs when there is a difference beyond just details).
To be honest though, I don't know how necessary including NA in the line is. In polls with large volumes of voting, it often ranks way down on the overall importance of being included in the line. Some of the NA figures have turned out to be cool looking, but honestly aside from NA versions of He-Man and Skeletor, even the "top-tier" NA characters are pretty much on about the same overall scale as the aforementioned late-line vintage MOTU figures.
That's just the way I see it anyway.
Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; August 10, 2013 at 12:23am.
In the name of the Lloyd!
Honestly, if I had one wish for this line, it would be that people wouldn't see factions anymore, but see one huge awesome line that could give Star Wars a run for its money if the fan base weren't so divided. I prefer to go with the 'more the merrier' mentality.
I'd barely heard of Goat Man before SDCC, and he's one of the reveals I'm looking forward to most. I didn't like NA until we got Flipshot, and I fell in love with the faction. The MOTU cartoon was dying for me until it was reinvigorated by She-Ra. Not because it was girly, which the cartoon wasn't particularly girly at all, but because it was a fun story that gave life back into a franchise that was no longer doing it for me.
What's cool about MOTU vintage, is that they have these lame gimmicks and powers and do awesome things with them, Clamp Champ, Fisto, Stinkor, come on! That's awesome, but equally awesome is Frosta's power over cold, or finally having a mermaid in the line with Mermista. Perfuma going head to head with Evilseed, or Angella teaching Sorceress how to use magic without passing out every five minutes! LOL
I can see why some people are put off by characters they don't know, THAT I get. But get to know the characters, see if you like them.
I didn't see the 200x series until a few months ago, LOL, yet I've been collecting the line in total for five years...
Examples of characters that I didn't know who they were, and instead of voting against them, got to know them and actually like them...
There's plenty more...
I'd say NA fans actually pay the most but there are only like 5 of them..lol. Actually if you are a PoP only fan and a subber you make out like a bandit since resale on all the vintage will pay for them AND your PoP figures..so I say no. And if you're keeping the others anyway than definately not since subbing saves you money.....unless you only collect figures that sell below cost.....which isn't many....or the big lots ones....also not many....
While the enthusiasm is admirable, a lot of thoughts in this thread are built on a faulty premise.
Ultimately, there is a disconnect between ACTION FIGURE characters and CARTOON characters that you have to understand.
He-Man, Skeletor, Beast Man... all action figure characters who happened to show up in a cartoon.
All the PoP and Filmation characters... cartoon characters who happened to show up in an action figure line.
As diehard, all-encompassing, everything MotU and PoP fans, people want to lump them all in the same category and weigh their significance equally. (Except of course when decrying NA, 200x, concept, or latter-wave vintage as unworthy inclusions above favored PoP/Filmation characters...)
But action figure collectors don't see it that way. They won't see Madame Razz and be happy that an "important to the mythos" character is made. They'll say "Sorry, no interest on a cartoony witch" and move on.
If you're predominantly a fan of the cartoons, it's easy to tick off all the "important" characters and be mad when they don't show up, but this isn't like a movie franchise where the main characters are cut and dry and it's the dominant (or sole) source of exposure for people. This is an action figure line based on multiple sources where one of the most popular characters can be Scare Glow, a guy who never showed up in anything aside from a few panels in a mini comic 25 years ago.
And having something like the theatrical release of SOTS helping bridge MOTU into the POP, cartoon as well as the further crossovers with He-Man on POP, it helped cement the idea of He-Man and She-Ra together and bridged fans of one over to the other. I know that there are some fans that never cared for Filmation at all, let alone any incarnation of POP, preferring the likes of the mini comics (particularly the early ones). But still, Maddam Razz was a main character of a cartoon series that aired every weekday afternoon, exposing kids everywhere to this character regularly, regardless of whether or not they even had any of the toys. By contrast, a character from late in the vintage MOTU line who only appeared in a few panels of a mini comic that you would only get by buying that particular figure doesn't have the same level of recognizability.
In the name of the Lloyd!
I will say again that I would rather the line have been completely vintage. Yes, sure we may burned through them all and the line would be over - but at least I'd have got all the figures I wanted by now rather than sweating out on important figures like Two Bad, Mantenna and the Snake Men. The fact I may get an extra from Fantasia over a snake man really burns me up.
I'm also gay, and while I love the POP characters it has nothing to do with the vintage toys. I like the characters themselves based on the Filmation cartoon I watch as a kid. In fact I flat out hated the vintage figures as a kid because they didn't match the cartoon and were so different in style compared to Teela, Evil-Lyn, and The Sorceress. Not all POP fans are fans because of the vintage rooted hair, soft good wearing figures.
I had no POP figures as a child, none. I played with G.I. Joe, MOTU, Star Wars, Transfomers, Super Friends, Go Bots, M.A.S.K., TMNT, etc. Yes I will admit I my favorite characters were Scarlett, Baroness, Teela, Evil-Lyn, Princess Leia, Acres, Wonder Woman, Crasher (and Scooter), Manta with Vanessa, April O'Neil, etc. But it had noting to do with them brushing their hair or wearing pretty clothes, it was because they were strong independent character who could hold their own (except maybe April) with the other characters.
It's not hard to look past the rooted hair and fabulous fashions of the 80's and see the characters for what they are. She-ra is everything He-Man is plus more, she has the ability to heal and commune with animals, two things He-Man could not do. Queen Angella was a ruler who fought along side her people to see that they didn't fall under the heel of the Horde empire.
It comes down to this, either we pull together as a fandom or the line ends.
I'm not excited about Modulok, Hydron, Goat Man, or possible figures like Dragstor, Blast Attack, or Rotar but I'm willing to support the line and give these figures chance. There have been several figures I did not like or want but once I got them in hand that changed. Life is to short to only look on the negative side of things, especially if that thing is toy collecting.
Last edited by Slave2Evil_Lyn; August 10, 2013 at 12:37am.
"Don't crowd me boys!"
And for the record, He-Man, Skeletor, and Beast man didn't happen to show up in the cartoon. LOL They were the cartoon! You make them sound like guest stars.
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By your criteria "action figure collectors" should not be interested in Star Wars or Batman because they came from other media and didn't start our as an action figure.
"Don't crowd me boys!"
With me, every vintage figure is preferred simply for being in the vintage line, even that late series like Rio Blast, Extendar, Ninjor, etc. The vintage toys were my favorites, not the cartoons but the actual toys. I've waited 30 years for articulated, proportional, updated versions of these and I want the vintage line complete. I never had a Roton as a kid (still don't in my adult MOC collection) but I really want the MOTUC version because, he was in the vintage toy line, and that's all it takes for me. I have liked many of the additions from validated source material like DemoMan, Vikor, GyGor and He-Ro and also love the FILMation sub. However, PoP and NA do nothing for me so I sell those off, sometimes breaking even, sometimes losing money. Vintage MOTU has to carry the other lines in this all-Eras model, just the way it is.
If the early 2014 reveals had been Two Bad, Modulok, Rio Blast, Extendar, and Ninjor, then I would have bought 3 subs instead of 1.
That said, I have subbed since day one to support the entire line and all the other MOTU fans who enjoy PoP or NA like I enjoy vintage. I do wish the lines had separate subs (and I believe more of them would survive than people think) but that isn't the world we live in. Mattel decided to bind all the eras together so we need to all keep rowing together or the boat will sink!
I hope PoP fans get their own sub next year, they deserve it!
THE VINTAGE-TO-CLASSICS COUNTDOWN IS COMPLETE!!!
That kind of talk has never gone down well here, and it makes little sense to lob insults like that at fellow nerds.
And you actually missed the point of my comment.
I wasn't talking about you. You make your point of you clear often enough.
I was talking about people who have grown tired of interacting with members like you, who seem to shut down if someone disagrees, and who makes it loud and clear, often enough, that unless you dislike pop or NA, you might just deserve an insult every now and then.
That's not fun. I know for a fact that many pop fans, for example, no longer bother engaging with comments like yours because they're tired of it.
Last edited by bcrduke; August 10, 2013 at 01:37am.
A Want List of Sorts: at this point... I just hope there is a 2017...
I still hope we get Razz and Mermista next year. PoP has a place in the main line and IS vintage...lets face it....they fought the Horde a hellova lot more than He-Man did. They fit in pretty well as well. I don't get all the hate honestly....while I will sell offf Perfuma and Peekablue...I'd never wish them not be made. I do think the next mini sub should be PoP though. I don't see another way to get all the vintage figures out to the she-ravers and I think a lot of He-man vintage purists would appreciate it.
Who cares what the vintage characters look like. These new figures are hot babes.
It's 2013 - and while not everyone has to like everything, I would think that the "boys" who are grown now and presumably if they feel a "stigma" about "girls" toys they like ladies, and these are mighty pretty ladies. I would think guys like that would actually like some females in the line so they aren't looking at overly muscled, nearly-nude men in loincloths exclusively on their shelves.
With PoP, I think you find some fans get disappointed when up until now we got so few figures, and when we did they were usually given the short end of the stick. Less accessories, poor color design, etc. Personally, I've liked them all - but it will irk me until the end of time that Frosta was frickin' grey, LOL. But even that, I can overlook just to have her. Most of us are just grateful to have them - and kind of tired of the hard knocks people give PoP when I can tell you I own every MOTUC item, am a subscriber, and if it weren't for PoP I wouldn't have bought anything. We financed all the figures that have come out so far, and I for one am going to enjoy the increase in output of PoP because frankly we deserve it.
Scott has been very careful in his explanation, "Vintage MOTU and PoP will be completed" if we get 2014-2015. Mathematically, that has to be at least a third, because you are talking over a dozen slots (because, in addition to the 10 unreleased PoP, we also know Scorpia is likely coming, and Madame Razz is a shoo-in).
So 17 SKU in 2013 and 2014 (presuming it stays the same) is 34 slots. 12 out of that is (someone double check my math) somewhere around 35% of those slots are PoP.
Of course, some here and there could be non-sub items, but the more specific Scott is, it seems the subs themselves contain these figures.
So yeah, 1/3 is a pretty good estimate.
I concur reg. POP fans not bothering anymore to argue with anti-POP people.
I've been on HE-MAN.ORG since the 200X revival. I've seen a myriad threads with the same basic discussion and I personally engaged in countless arguments with people over the years - from debunking the myth that the Horde was really invented for the He-man cartoon to arguying that She-ra is indeed far more recognized by the regular masses than Teela or any other female character of the MOTU mythos -
Yet, despite giving evidence for each argument, the same tired stereotypes always come back. So I'm done arguying here with people that consistently seem to rally for this all-inclusive toyline to drop the factions and be a vintage-only toyline.
Instead, I'm part of a couple FACEBOOK groups where I don't have to deal with that attitude and those same stereotypes about girly toys and gay men, I still love the .org though, and to make sure coming here remains an enjoyable experience, I've BLOCKED a lot of you that are currently posting on this very thread so I don't have to read your posts anymore. Not because I disrespect your arguments - you may dislike She-ra as much as you want - but because I'm way past caring about what you may think or say on that topic.
But it's clear that "recognizability" is not the be all factor here. Madame Razz indeed has had much more exposure than Scare Glow, but that's irrelevant in an action figure line where action figure collectors by and large find a Madame Razz figure uninteresting.And having something like the theatrical release of SOTS helping bridge MOTU into the POP, cartoon as well as the further crossovers with He-Man on POP, it helped cement the idea of He-Man and She-Ra together and bridged fans of one over to the other. I know that there are some fans that never cared for Filmation at all, let alone any incarnation of POP, preferring the likes of the mini comics (particularly the early ones). But still, Maddam Razz was a main character of a cartoon series that aired every weekday afternoon, exposing kids everywhere to this character regularly, regardless of whether or not they even had any of the toys. By contrast, a character from late in the vintage MOTU line who only appeared in a few panels of a mini comic that you would only get by buying that particular figure doesn't have the same level of recognizability.
I just don't think people can separate themselves from their fandom very well, and accept that "major characters" in certain canons can have little to no bearing on popularity or ability to translate into actual sales. I'm one of Gwildor's biggest fans, and yet I acknowledge he's not a character most action figure collectors would be interested in, because he's a short, odd-looking troll-like guy who isn't a warrior and was in a movie that by and large is considered terrible by the general public.
So just because I personally have been requesting a Gwildor update since the 200x line doesn't mean I have any delusions that he'd be a popular seller, even if he was a "major character" in the movie. And by the same token a "major character" from Filmation doesn't translate to high sales either, otherwise we wouldn't be struggling with Glimmer, Scorpia, Angella, Madame Razz and other such major characters promised to be on the way.
And nowhere am I faulting anyone for liking any character in particular. I fault them for assuming they should have equally widespread acceptance and popularity.
The fact is these characters were created with no plans whatsoever of ever being part of a kid's cartoon show.And for the record, He-Man, Skeletor, and Beast man didn't happen to show up in the cartoon. LOL They were the cartoon! You make them sound like guest stars.
The Filmation-created characters and PoP characters are the exact opposite, which is part of the explanation for why they don't work as well as action figures in the minds of some collectors.
We have no way of knowing what would or wouldn't have happened without the Filmation show, as the toy line itself was already a top seller on its own.
I could just as easily make a hypothetical argument that instead of Filmation, what if a live action movie had been made that was more faithful to the original vision of MotU (a la the first TMNT movie), had been a huge worldwide hit, and allowed the vintage line to keep going longer than it did. We could do hypotheticals all day long, but they serve little purpose.
That's not my strict criteria that applies to anything ever made into an action figure. It's an explanation for why, under the MotU umbrella, not every character design is created equal and translates into a desired action figure.By your criteria "action figure collectors" should not be interested in Star Wars or Batman because they came from other media and didn't start our as an action figure.
But it's also not a coincidence that some of the most popular action figure characters are those that did start life as an action figure: Snake Eyes, Optimus Prime, etc.
If we were talking about something that was and is mega-popular I wouldn't have an argument, but MotU at its best is still niche, and PoP is then a niche within that niche.
To respond to the original post. I am a fan of NA... sorry if I don't share your sympathy of getting the short end of the stick. NA fans would KILL for any end of the stick lol lol.
I want NA Skeletor and Rio Blast and I want them now!
I want to make badges for cons "I love POP! no ****, bro." they can be pink with glitter. and one that says "I love POP, totes ****."
then we can further marginalize ourselves as PoP fans based on sexuality (then some of us can hook-up if we want, and not accidentally hit on our straight She-rAllies (see what i did there )).
edit: I was totes censored. it rhymes with momo. (fun killers).
my feedback thread:
This will probably be the last time we ever see non-Vintage toyline characters (again, save She-Ra). I think the fanbase won't support expansion. Not even with the 4H sculpting them.
The Official 200X Sorceress vs 200X Evil-Lyn 2 Pack Support Thread
The Blonde Teela Thread
Sagitar (Jetlag) Azdar Belzar Chazdar 200X Evil-Lyn 200X Teenage Prince Adam 200X Teenage Teela 200X Sorceress General Rattlor (MYP) 200X King Randor and Queen Marlena 200X Battle Armor King Randor and Battle Armor Queen Marlena Ice Armor He-Man WMD Roboto