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Thread: Do She-Ra fans have to pay more?

  1. #76
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retcon View Post
    MOTUC should never have been all encompassing. The reason it's faltering is NA and POP.
    I think Classics shows that most fans want their MOTU confined to Vintage characters (except for She-Ra). THAT is what is faltering the line. Classics tried to go beyond the Vintage characters and give us the ultimate MOTU toyline but fans are so stuck in 1985, that anything legitimately new (not ego projects) or even the obscure stuff is barely welcomed.

    This will probably be the last time we ever see non-Vintage toyline characters (again, save She-Ra). I think the fanbase won't support expansion. Not even with the 4H sculpting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipster View Post
    I don't get how you would have to pay more. The subs cost the same amount for all of us, shipping might vary but that would happen if you bought anything from anywhere.

    If you haven't figured it out yet almost one third of the sub this year (2014) is going to be POP.
    POP fans had to pay more because the Vintage fans had most of their major characters in 2010, while it's taken up until 2014 to reach Glimmer. NA is even worse. No faction leaders until 2014.

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  2. #77
    Heroic Warrior Evil Weed's Avatar
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    You made very good points and I agree with you wholeheartedly. The rush to get out so many core MOTU characters is, IMO, the reason why the subscription rates have gradually lagged. The other problem is that POP was never as popular as MOTU. I wasn't a POP fan as a kid and She-Ra was the only figure I owned from POP back in the 80's. MOTUC has mad POP so much cooler I can't imagine an MOTU fan not wanting these. Of course, I feel the same way about the NA figures appearance in MOTUC.

    The whole line in my opinion has been brilliant...except for the execution and the disproportion of core MOTU figures vs. POP and NA.
    Last edited by Evil Weed; August 10, 2013 at 10:25pm.

  3. #78
    Door with dental plan. Jawbridge's Avatar
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    I think separate lines (subs) would have been fine. That's how they originally were. Enough people seem to think highly enough of their favorite for it to be plausible.

    I think the interest in the original lines is reflected here. In the very very beginning, it took some time to gain momentum. Eventually it was a beast, and ultimately died out due to more interesting things being made.

    If we look at it in that light, MotU was first, and carried the most interest. PoP leveraged that interest, and separated into two lines, and was clearly marketed as such. No need to stop MotU, but add a girls line in it as well. If you liked MotU, good, buy 'em, if you wandered over to the other toy isle and found PoP and liked 'em, great. Interest was clearly dying, so they revamped into NA. Also branded differently but leveraging what worked best... He-Man. But it wasn't the same for some, while for others it came at the right time and was their jam. NA was the end of the road.

    Most people are at the top of the funnel, and further down you go, the more people drop off. The Great Rebellion was branded differently from MotU, the Horde was not. The Horde ladies more associated themselves to MotU in this way, and let's face it, the Horde, just like the Empire and Cobra have an evil cool factor built in.

    PoP did have rooted hair. So what you say? Well, they also came on different cards, all looked the same in different colors (no two-headed, big handed, long snouted, skull faced gimmick that could match MotU), had differnt body structures (not going ~there~), and other than a commercial for a cartoon, had absolutely nothing to do with MotU. So when people mention rooted hair, don't get your undies bunched and blame the sexual insecurities of the KIDS who are now us.

    Which do you think TMNT collectors would most likely have in their collection, April O'Neil or the troll doll turtles? And the rooted hair O'Neil is not the version I'm talking about.

    PoP, as a toy, was NOT the same as MotU. Deny that all you want, but as you do, maybe step back and look at it. Look at some Christmas wish books and old TV commercials

    The cartoon is a different but similar story. I'll try and make it shorter, and you can just read into it. He-Man, and the Masters aired. Great, people like it. Make girl toys and incorporate them into one cartoon, we can't afford two. Great. Okay, now try making it more futuristic and change stuff around and call it New. Done. You loose the initial interested party when you do this, but it's a gamble to gain more traction, and it did gain new tradition. And the interests were different as well.

    I know some people stuck with it all. Some saw the end and it led them to research the beginning, but for the most part, that young of a target audience doesn't give you that wide of a window. There interests develop and mature fast enough to outgrow one thing after another. This can be seen with 8-back fans and later wave fans. To each their own.

    The people interested in the 2009 line-up, probably aren't as interested in the 2014 line-up. It's just... not the same, even with Two-Bad and Modulok, and even though ~they're all the same now~, because they're not. It's that easy of a complication.

  4. #79
    Heroic Warrior Azrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think Classics shows that most fans want their MOTU confined to Vintage characters (except for She-Ra). THAT is what is faltering the line. Classics tried to go beyond the Vintage characters and give us the ultimate MOTU toyline but fans are so stuck in 1985, that anything legitimately new (not ego projects) or even the obscure stuff is barely welcomed.

    This will probably be the last time we ever see non-Vintage toyline characters (again, save She-Ra). I think the fanbase won't support expansion. Not even with the 4H sculpting them.



    POP fans had to pay more because the Vintage fans had most of their major characters in 2010, while it's taken up until 2014 to reach Glimmer. NA is even worse. No faction leaders until 2014.
    My sentiments exactly, and that is an unfortunate reality. In terms of visual aesthetics NA sports a plethora of interesting appealing
    characters that would make phenomenal 4H sculpted figures and still many will not support it based on that 1985 mindset. Frankly I
    wish they didn't blow their load so quick and focused more heavily on the NA and POP offerings first and perhaps save the remaining
    vintage for a more powerful finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think Classics shows that most fans want their MOTU confined to Vintage characters (except for She-Ra). THAT is what is faltering the line. Classics tried to go beyond the Vintage characters and give us the ultimate MOTU toyline but fans are so stuck in 1985, that anything legitimately new (not ego projects) or even the obscure stuff is barely welcomed.
    So the line is faltering because it did not give fans what they wanted? And that is somehow the fans' fault for not wanting the right thing?

    The All-Era approach was noble and ambitious but, in the end, it ran more fans off than it attracted, in my opinion. And I am one of the subbers (from day one) that was drawn in by the All-Era model. Mattel apparently believed the other eras would not survive on their own (in their own subs) so blended them in with vintage. Personally, I think the other era fans WOULD support their own subs (especially PoP and 200X, maybe not NA) but we have not been given the chance to find out.

    It isn't fair to blame fans for not continuing to sign up for an All-Eras sub when so many of us prefer one era over the others. I really do wonder why Mattel did not start with a vintage sub then, when that was successfully up and running, offer a separate PoP sub, the next logical choice. Then maybe 200X, FILMation (when they acquired those rights), NA, etc. One might argue that they thought some lines would not survive on their own. Our they thought they would sell more figures blending them all together. Either way, the All-Eras model was born and has had a great ride. But its time to rethink that model because too many subbers are dropping out after having so many figures put in their subs they flat out do not want.

    Also, it is much too simplistic to say that the sub is just not for people who only want one era. If too many people take that approach, then the sub dies, the line dies, and nobody gets what they want. Vintage-only fans (and PoP-only fans and 200X-only fans, etc) that choose to sub have been carrying the burden of this line too long. Mattel should split the eras up into their own subs so that EVERYONE gets what they want.

    With Mattel making it the only way to get your figures with all the zero DOS figures and not knowing half the year before you have to sign up, they were asking for trouble.
    Last edited by SunDevil; August 11, 2013 at 01:34am.
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  6. #81
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
    So the line is faltering because it did not give fans what they wanted? And that is somehow the fans' fault for not wanting the right thing?

    The All-Era approach was noble and ambitious but, in the end, it ran more fans off than it attracted, in my opinion. And I am one of the subbers (from day one) that was drawn in by the All-Era model. Mattel apparently believed the other eras would not survive on their own (in their own subs) so blended them in with vintage. Personally, I think the other era fans WOULD support their own subs (especially PoP and 200X, maybe not NA) but we have not been given the chance to find out.

    It isn't fair to blame fans for not continuing to sign up for an All-Eras sub when so many of us prefer one era over the others. I really do wonder why Mattel did not start with a vintage sub then, when that was successfully up and running, offer a separate PoP sub, the next logical choice. Then maybe 200X, FILMation (when they acquired those rights), NA, etc. One might argue that they thought some lines would not survive on their own. Our they thought they would sell more figures blending them all together. Either way, the All-Eras model was born and has had a great ride. But its time to rethink that model because too many subbers are dropping out after having so many figures put in their subs they flat out do not want.

    Also, it is much too simplistic to say that the sub is just not for people who only want one era. If too many people take that approach, then the sub dies, the line dies, and nobody gets what they want. Vintage-only fans (and PoP-only fans and 200X-only fans, etc) that choose to sub have been carrying the burden of this line too long. Mattel should split the eras up into their own subs so that EVERYONE gets what they want.

    With Mattel making it the only way to get your figures with all the zero DOS figures and not knowing half the year before you have to sign up, they were asking for trouble.
    But fans were always getting what they wanted.

    The problem is two-fold: the biggest problem is that Mattel loves the subscription model so much, that they are making the cherry pickers buy subs. The second is that since the sub forces the cherry pickers into subscribing, those fans get impatient and want their Vintage favorites NOW instead of waiting for an eventual figure like all of the other factions (POP fans waited five years for Glimmer and NA fans waited the same amount of time for Hydron).

    Since the line now needs the Vintage only fan's help in going forward, to get their support, Mattel had to bend to Vintage only fans. I think this bodes ill for the future of MOTU -- limiting the brand to 40 - 50 characters from 120 or so, since the majority of fans seemingly have trouble supporting non-Vintage characters. Mattel's heavy handed approach might decide to forget about changing fan's minds about characters that they long hated and drop those characters from the mythos altogether. MOTU would be limited to the Vintage characters ad nasuem.

    However, you do raise an interesting point about separate subs that deserves it's own thread...

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  7. #82
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think Classics shows that most fans want their MOTU confined to Vintage characters (except for She-Ra). THAT is what is faltering the line. Classics tried to go beyond the Vintage characters and give us the ultimate MOTU toyline but fans are so stuck in 1985, that anything legitimately new (not ego projects) or even the obscure stuff is barely welcomed.

    This will probably be the last time we ever see non-Vintage toyline characters (again, save She-Ra). I think the fanbase won't support expansion. Not even with the 4H sculpting them.
    The first part I agree with 100%. The Fighting Foe Men, Hydron, Icarius, Vikor, Demo-Man, Draego-Man, these are among the coolest figures of the whole series IMO, and don't break the mold of "what fits into MotU" half as bad as characters twice as popular.

    The second part I gotta take issue with because I don't think it's fair to say essentially that not even the 4H's sculpting can make these characters appealing. In fact, IMO it's the lack of 4H-ization on far too many figures in the line that has helped with the downturn in sales, even on "hallowed" vintage characters like Spikor, Leech, Clawful, and Snout Spout.

    Snout Spout is a perfect example. In the case of the Staction, the 4H breathed new life into this long-maligned, butt of endless MotU-dogging jokes, Z-list character, so much so that many fans considered the Snout Spout Staction to be one of, if not THE best of the 200x redesigns. Compare that to his standing in MOTUC, where even absent the poor trunk construction, he was met with a fair amount of apathy. It's just one example of how the 4H's potential for character badasserizing has taken several backwards steps in MOTUC, somewhat in part due to shared tooling constraints, but mainly due to being faithful to (by definition backwards stepping) nostalgia constraints.

    This is what too many die-hard PoP fans don't understand. It's not that some of us hate PoP and everything in it on principle, it's that we want to see those characters reimagined and brought up to speed with their true potential without being so stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    My sentiments exactly, and that is an unfortunate reality. In terms of visual aesthetics NA sports a plethora of interesting appealing characters that would make phenomenal 4H sculpted figures and still many will not support it based on that 1985 mindset. Frankly I wish they didn't blow their load so quick and focused more heavily on the NA and POP offerings first and perhaps save the remaining vintage for a more powerful finish.
    And y'know, that's OK if people really just want a core group of characters they remember from their childhood. But where I draw the line is when people start to talk crap on the figures themselves, as in the case of NA where people claim them to be "crappy figures" or whatever.

    And your last comment is spot on. What you're describing is what the fabled "roadmap" was supposed to do, and obviously failed miserably. I understand wanting to get some of the biggest guns out right away when the future of the line was totally uncertain. But looking at the character rollout since then, it really seems like the line was destined to be done right around . . . well, NOW, I guess. Definitely not a plan for 2016 and beyond.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Since the line now needs the Vintage only fan's help in going forward, to get their support, Mattel had to bend to Vintage only fans. I think this bodes ill for the future of MOTU -- limiting the brand to 40 - 50 characters from 120 or so, since the majority of fans seemingly have trouble supporting non-Vintage characters. Mattel's heavy handed approach might decide to forget about changing fan's minds about characters that they long hated and drop those characters from the mythos altogether. MOTU would be limited to the Vintage characters ad nasuem.
    Not just the vintage-only fan's support, but support of casual MotU fans who buy figures they think are cool. We brought a TON of these kinds of buyers on board, only to lose the majority of 'em.

    As for the pros and cons of limiting the focus of the mythos to only 40-50 really strong characters, I don't really have a huge problem with it simply for the fact that we don't have practically any solid storytelling about ANY of these characters so far, and rather than get caught up in tangential "world-building" just to have an excuse to insert one's own pet character ideas or thumb-printing just cause you can, I'd rather some true care and attention be given to the characters that have already proven they're still compelling and interesting after 30 years.

  8. #83
    Evil Villain!!! adam03's Avatar
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    You still have it good, better than NA fans and we have already been told the next 2 years are Pop based and NA gets to be the sacrificial lamb in the situation, like i tell my kid don`t complain about your dinner when there are peolle starving all over the world. At least the end of your line is in sight. They can`t even guaruntee that we will see NA Skeletor but I`m hopefuly he`s coming

  9. #84
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    The second part I gotta take issue with because I don't think it's fair to say essentially that not even the 4H's sculpting can make these characters appealing. In fact, IMO it's the lack of 4H-ization on far too many figures in the line that has helped with the downturn in sales, even on "hallowed" vintage characters like Spikor, Leech, Clawful, and Snout Spout.

    Snout Spout is a perfect example. In the case of the Staction, the 4H breathed new life into this long-maligned, butt of endless MotU-dogging jokes, Z-list character, so much so that many fans considered the Snout Spout Staction to be one of, if not THE best of the 200x redesigns. Compare that to his standing in MOTUC, where even absent the poor trunk construction, he was met with a fair amount of apathy. It's just one example of how the 4H's potential for character badasserizing has taken several backwards steps in MOTUC, somewhat in part due to shared tooling constraints, but mainly due to being faithful to (by definition backwards stepping) nostalgia constraints.

    This is what too many die-hard PoP fans don't understand. It's not that some of us hate PoP and everything in it on principle, it's that we want to see those characters reimagined and brought up to speed with their true potential without being so stuck in the past.
    I was speaking moreso about NA characters. Flipshot is the worst figure of 2011 despite not having a deteriorating foam trunk or not being a repaint of the Teela buck. Hydron is coming under fire for being included in the reveals. Karatti is usually mentioned as being hard to sell.

    No matter how nice the 4H update them or new tooling that they receive, the old NA stigma remains.

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  10. #85
    Expect 10 inches Rain's Avatar
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    All I know is, we don't have a Rio Blast yet... And that is the ONE character I want more than any other that has or could be made in this line... So POP fans are getting more than me as far as I'm concerned.
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    YEAH !!! NO RIO WE RIOT!!!! seriously the line is 5-6 years old how many toy lines do you know of that run that long period even back in the day when toys were selling? even the big whoop dee doo of POP only ran 2-3 years . It's running on bad ideas without any input that has PO'ed the fans that gave up. If your thinking it, let us in give us a say and run with it and save ticking us off with say the FFM (they suck) and BG chicks(well Teela anyway) or half of the 30th figures (you know who they are) or using black plastic in huge quantities and it goes on and on.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    But fans were always getting what they wanted.

    The problem is two-fold: the biggest problem is that Mattel loves the subscription model so much, that they are making the cherry pickers buy subs. The second is that since the sub forces the cherry pickers into subscribing, those fans get impatient and want their Vintage favorites NOW instead of waiting for an eventual figure like all of the other factions (POP fans waited five years for Glimmer and NA fans waited the same amount of time for Hydron).

    Since the line now needs the Vintage only fan's help in going forward, to get their support, Mattel had to bend to Vintage only fans. I think this bodes ill for the future of MOTU -- limiting the brand to 40 - 50 characters from 120 or so, since the majority of fans seemingly have trouble supporting non-Vintage characters. Mattel's heavy handed approach might decide to forget about changing fan's minds about characters that they long hated and drop those characters from the mythos altogether. MOTU would be limited to the Vintage characters ad nasuem.

    However, you do raise an interesting point about separate subs that deserves it's own thread...
    I'm not sure fans were always getting what they wanted, though I agree 100% with the rest of your post. Fans of ALL eras (other than vintage) were forced to wait months between figures. Then, when the vintage fans got used to having their figure every month, they started losing months to concept figures, vanity projects, and the other eras. Many, many fans think that EVERY slot devoted to some other era besides their favorite was a wasted month. That discontent began brewing the second year of the line and just got worse.

    Regardless, we agree that fans want their own eras first and foremost and are not all onboard with merging all the eras or adding tons of new characters.
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  13. #88
    Expect 10 inches Rain's Avatar
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    If the line ends... and Plundor got a figure, but Rio Blast and Ninjor don't... I will be pretty sad. I don't mind that other figures are being made, I love the variety, but I don't get a subscription, because outside of She-ra and Hordak, I don't want any PoP characters... maybe Imp...
    I don't want any NA characters, though Optik was cool looking.
    I don't want most of the concept figures or 30th figures (besides Photog)...

    And the reason for that, is I didn't really like those as a kid. I don't have the same fondness for them, that I do for the entire vintage MOTU line... because I was a spoiled brat and I had every single vintage figure... except Man-at-arms, who somehow never found his way into my collection... but I only had a small selection of PoP figs (basically the Horde figures, she-ra, Frosta and Angellica), and the Cartoon came out later, and I didn't watch She-ra as often.

    I appreciate that the line has given PoP and NA fans a selection of stuff they want, but I don't like being stuck with a subscription and having to pay $38 per figure, to get those. I had a sub for the first year, and really couldn't justify paying that amount every month... which is really sad when figures like Sorceress, Fisto, and Clamp Champ don't get day of sales.
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    POP and FILMATION fan here.

    I'm just popping in to say that my $2500 a year on this line isn't spent waiting on Rotar and Twistoid. In fact, examining the list of remaining vintage MOTU toy characters, I'd say I am only truly interested in a few of them.

    My collectors interest, and my MONEY, are being placed on the bets of getting the Etheria characters (vintage POP toy characters and the amazing Filmation and other media characters) as well as some of my favorite less-than-A-List characters from the toon and mini-comics.

    I've given up repeatedly explaining myself and arguing with vintage-only collectors. And I definitely disagree with sentiments being shared that including Glimmer and Hydron is somehow holding back people's collections. THE ONLY REASON I GOT EXCITED FOR THIS LINE is because of the promise that She-Ra and her world would be getting equal inclusion. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceAdam101 View Post
    POP and FILMATION fan here.

    I'm just popping in to say that my $2500 a year on this line isn't spent waiting on Rotar and Twistoid. In fact, examining the list of remaining vintage MOTU toy characters, I'd say I am only truly interested in a few of them.

    My collectors interest, and my MONEY, are being placed on the bets of getting the Etheria characters (vintage POP toy characters and the amazing Filmation and other media characters) as well as some of my favorite less-than-A-List characters from the toon and mini-comics.

    I've given up repeatedly explaining myself and arguing with vintage-only collectors. And I definitely disagree with sentiments being shared that including Glimmer and Hydron is somehow holding back people's collections. THE ONLY REASON I GOT EXCITED FOR THIS LINE is because of the promise that She-Ra and her world would be getting equal inclusion. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
    It is exhausting being a she-ra fan around here, but we can't blame other fans for the company's mismanagement of the line. But now is the time for collector's to realize that if they want Rioblast, they have to wait until I get 5 or 6 PoP figures, and continue to support the whole line, or if they don't like it, pre-order their figs from somewhere like BBTS, where their one pre-order is possibly equal or close to one additional sub order.

  16. #91
    Door with dental plan. Jawbridge's Avatar
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    I'm actually a vintage fan that still can't see the ~charm~ in Rio or Extendar. Especially Rio. Pack the twistoids in there with them, those guys are silly. I'd rather have some new Filmation installments in lue of those guys, or the vintage Horde concept figures, which cross the PoP/Vintage bridge a little bit anyways.

    As I lend my heart to the PoP fans, I'm actually worried. If Tung Lashor is released this year, there is nothing keeping me personally in this line, and many people are already out with Two-Bad and Modulok. Whether it be just one or the other, or both. I was even at the point were it was more economical to buy them at double/triple price to just get them alone. The only reason I stayed was in hopes of a laser figure, the Nameless One being cool, and Tung Lashor being released, and maybe like a Ninjor or something. If Tung Lashor's not released in 2014, then I'd just try to pick up a singleton of him, and stay far away from the sub. And that's if 2015 gets made at all, which depends first on 2014.

    If PoP had it's own sub. This would not be an issue. It would be solid PoP. All the PoP fans would of course unite and make the sub work as best they could. Many vintage fans say this as a way of saying "put your money where your mouth is" or hinting that there aren't enough PoP fans to carry a sub based on that, but it would actually probably work. If each individual sub was six figures, one every two months, it would be easier for people to participate. I'm not sure about NA getting a sub though. I hear people tear it down pretty good, even though joking. They might not gamble on tooling 3 figures. Maybe if they tooled one, and tried to roll with that.

    Filmation is already a great sub idea, and I would sign up for one of those again, provided they stick to the mentality of the current road map.

    Ideally, they would reach out to the fans before they made these choices. Voting on loose drawings would be so great. Then they know they are hitting the wanted figure to optimize sales, and the fans aren't suspicious of another fans taste dictating the whole line. If they can't work out a way to sneak peek stuff without carrying tons of legal baggage, then they need a new legal team. And if they do that, fan inclusion in the selection process should become apart of this.

    But back to the subs as is. PoP fans have of course paid way way more. If they're in it to only collect PoP, that's been a painful ride. I'm a vintage fan, and there is no way I'd buy 14-15 other figures just to get 2 or 3 (if that) for my collection. Which is why the sub no longer interests me now. All dead weight (to me, again, awesome stuff for other fans!), even many of the vintage figures. It's looking bleak for the all-in/all-eras sub. I think it's time to break it up. NA could be single releases if that's what's needed to keep it alive. Which wouldn't be much different from how slow it gets attention now.

  17. #92
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think Classics shows that most fans want their MOTU confined to Vintage characters (except for She-Ra). THAT is what is faltering the line. Classics tried to go beyond the Vintage characters and give us the ultimate MOTU toyline but fans are so stuck in 1985, that anything legitimately new (not ego projects) or even the obscure stuff is barely welcomed.
    This is a now popular notion that has no real basis in the line's history. Folks were buying POP, concept and NA figures, and the figures were selling out heir first runs, just fine for a long time. Some POP figures sold out faster than comparably numbered vintage figures (back when the numbers made each month were the same). It was the big ticket items like the Star Sisters and the Foe Men that created the problems, along with the increased reliance on the subs for continuing the lines. A vintage character, on average, may sell quicker than a POP, but ALL of the figures were selling just fine until miscalculations were made, the subs became the center of the universe, and the problems with DR started to pile up and drive customers away.

    It's mostly the all or nothing nature of the sub and Mattel's insistence that it all must be kept a deep, dark secret that has taken a toll on the line and its sales. When things like Vikor and Demo-Man sold just as well as some of the vintage selections, it points to other factors making it harder to sell the line these days, not just that POP and NA are included.
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  18. #93
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    This is a now popular notion that has no real basis in the line's history. Folks were buying POP, concept and NA figures, and the figures were selling out heir first runs, just fine for a long time. Some POP figures sold out faster than comparably numbered vintage figures (back when the numbers made each month were the same). It was the big ticket items like the Star Sisters and the Foe Men that created the problems, along with the increased reliance on the subs for continuing the lines. A vintage character, on average, may sell quicker than a POP, but ALL of the figures were selling just fine until miscalculations were made, the subs became the center of the universe, and the problems with DR started to pile up and drive customers away.

    It's mostly the all or nothing nature of the sub and Mattel's insistence that it all must be kept a deep, dark secret that has taken a toll on the line and its sales. When things like Vikor and Demo-Man sold just as well as some of the vintage selections, it points to other factors making it harder to sell the line these days, not just that POP and NA are included.
    I think those feelings were always there.

    I think people had a much more positive attitude when the line was in it's prime, everything sold out in minutes and the line was "unsinkable" (around SDCC 2010), so Vintage and casual fans relaxed and were alot more open toward obscure and newer characters. At the beginning, there was a huge resistance to anything that would take up slots from Vintage characters. Around SDCC 2010 and in 2011 those feelings waned. They returned again when the 2013 sub barely got through. That's after we got the 30th sub (not in the sub, but blamed for taking slots), Horde Prime, Vykron and the Star Sisters.

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  19. #94
    Heroic Warrior The BLAY's Avatar
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    Firstly, if Madame Razz and Broom were the sub figures for 2015, I would be very inclined not to sub-up, and this is coming from a subscriber since day 1 in the last quarter of 2009.
    Secondly, why is it so hard to grasp that there are simply more He-Man characters that were in the original line up than there were for POP.
    One of my all time favorite characters is Two Bad, by the time he arrives in 2014 I will have waited 5.5 years since the lines inception to get him. To say that POP fans, as a whole, have to pay more for their figures with regards to time is asinine. The line is all encompassing and it seems that fans of the He-Man line have come to accept that, yet POP fans always feel like they are being cheated.
    He-Man fans could take the same stance and say, well if figures like the Star Sisters, Netossa, She-Ra 2.0 etc... were'nt made we would have figures like Tung Lashor, Rio Blast, Ninjor and many more already in the lineup. Yet that is not how the line works. I can understand how frustrating it can be as a POP fan, with your characters spread out so much, but you aren't alone in this. Every fan of this line has characters that they want to see made ASAP but we just have to wait. 2014 is going to have numerous characters from NA, MOTU and POP, so we just have to wait and see who we get, but I can tell you now that some people will be disappointed that certain figures aren't coming out this coming year, and maybe not in 2015 either but that is the way it is.

  20. #95
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The BLAY View Post
    Firstly, if Madame Razz and Broom were the sub figures for 2015, I would be very inclined not to sub-up, and this is coming from a subscriber since day 1 in the last quarter of 2009.
    Why would one Filmation POP character stop you from finishing up the rest of your Vintage collection?

    Secondly, why is it so hard to grasp that there are simply more He-Man characters that were in the original line up than there were for POP. One of my all time favorite characters is Two Bad, by the time he arrives in 2014 I will have waited 5.5 years since the lines inception to get him. To say that POP fans, as a whole, have to pay more for their figures with regards to time is asinine. The line is all encompassing and it seems that fans of the He-Man line have come to accept that, yet POP fans always feel like they are being cheated.
    I think they are aware that there are less characters. However, imagine if you had to wait five years for Man-At-Arms or Teela? Glimmer is the equivalent of those characters and that's what some POP fans were upset about. New Adventures fans had to wait five years for their leaders to come out. The popularity of the lines aren't equal, and that it's tougher on those non-Vintage fans! We all know this, but it really gets hard when you have some Vintage fans using the popularity of their era as justification for Mattel to minimize or in some extreme cases, eliminate the other "lesser" eras out of Classics.

    He-Man fans could take the same stance and say, well if figures like the Star Sisters, Netossa, She-Ra 2.0 etc... were'nt made we would have figures like Tung Lashor, Rio Blast, Ninjor and many more already in the lineup. Yet that is not how the line works. I can understand how frustrating it can be as a POP fan, with your characters spread out so much, but you aren't alone in this. Every fan of this line has characters that they want to see made ASAP but we just have to wait. 2014 is going to have numerous characters from NA, MOTU and POP, so we just have to wait and see who we get, but I can tell you now that some people will be disappointed that certain figures aren't coming out this coming year, and maybe not in 2015 either but that is the way it is.
    I agree, but Vintage and casual fans tend to be the most impatient in wanting their figures. If it wasn't Trap Jaw or Man-E-Faces, it was The Sorceress or Ram Man.

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  21. #96
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The BLAY View Post
    Secondly, why is it so hard to grasp that there are simply more He-Man characters that were in the original line up than there were for POP.
    To which I reply: Why is it so hard to grasp that while there are simply MORE He-Man Characters, POP Fans and NA Fans don't even have a single wave complete While vintage has 3 whole waves, Wave 4 is a Modulok and a Two-Bad shy from completion, and half of waves 5 and 6 done?


    The line is all encompassing and it seems that fans of the He-Man line have come to accept that, yet POP fans always feel like they are being cheated.
    Have you seen all the post of Vintage MOTU fans complaining about Hydron? Or the many posts that ask POP and NA Fans "to take one for the team" and allow the vintage line to be completed? Or post claiming that Ninjor, Dragstor, etc. are more important than POP or NA Core characters? Or how POP and NA are killing the line? Trust me, the POP and NA Fans are MORE AWARE of the all encompassing aspect of this line... (that's how we get our POP and NA scraps!)

    It's a lot easier when most of one era's CORE Characters have been made before 2012... (Two-Bad being the last remaining Core Vintage character... Modulok's Core status could be contested) Meanwhile, NA has no Faction Leaders (Hydron and Flogg), or NA Skeletor(who happens to complete Wave 1). PoP fans are missing Glimmer, Angella, (Madame Razz and Light Hope if we add Filmation to the mix)... I'd also throw in Double Trouble to complete Wave 1. If the "Other eras" had at least Wave 1 complete, maybe the story would be different and we would have had less complaints coming from the POP Fans (I'd include NA Fans, but they usually are not as vocal about it)...
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  22. #97
    Door with dental plan. Jawbridge's Avatar
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    I think we saw the padding start in 2010. It feels like, and this is from the timing, not my preferences, that really that's all PoP, NA, and even MYP amounted to when they started rolling out. Padding.

    I think they were going to make She-Ra regardless. Even though we had King Greyskull, I don't think Marzo or Carnivus was at the forefront until the line proved itself, then they were quickly shuffled in. And to round out the idea that it was now all encompassing, they threw in the coolest NA figure from a purely design/originality standpoint.

    Now the line would had to have changed mid 2009 for them to appear so fast (it seems). So you can still say MOTUC was all encompassing from the start, or not, and have an argument. Even though you couldn't visibly see that until 2010, it was eventually in the works.

    And maybe that set the tone. Padding padding padding. In 2010, there were 5 months were the main figure release was not a vintage figure. Almost half the year. That's a big shift from what was presented in 2009, and subbing up and not getting what you got the previous year could have had very bad effects. The two PoP figures were Adora, NEVER RELEASED BEFORE!, and She-Ra. You don't get more A-list than that my friends.

    The next year seemed about the same. 5 main figures were not vintage. And for PoP, Bow and Catra were very big hitters, and the beast of all PoP beasts, Swift Wind! Those were huge wins!

    2012 was insane. I really don't remember what the order was supposed to be, what it turned out to be, and how many figures actually cam out that year. Seems like that year doubled the line for some reason, but I'm sure it's not that big. But mainly because we got a three pack, a two pack, and an additional 6 figure sub. Insane year! And PoP was part of it. Once owned by Filmation Shadow Weaver!!!! Sheesh, that's as A-list as it gets, and Frosta seems legit, idunno, maybe not. But you got a huge gamble and hard swallow for vintage subscribers in the Star Sisters three pack to kick the year off.

    I'm not saying that if you collect PoP only and actually subbed every year that you didn't pay way more than somebody who only wanted vintage and subbed every year. No way, the thread premis still stands. But as far as releasing good PoP figures when honestly it looked like padding and filler and the right for them to say the line was all encompassing, they knocked out some good stuff.

    I think once 2014 has passed, all the PoP fans will be happy. Seahawk, Scorpia and Glimmer are pretty hardcore. And what ever else 2014 holds. Could be just as insane!

    They really have knocked out all of the really really big hitters (including announcements) other than Angela I guess. I actually wanted a Kowl, and he got snuck in there somehow. Crazy stuff!

  23. #98
    Evil Customizer smanomega's Avatar
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    I think if the line goes through this thread will be dead as far as POP fans go because really strictly from a cartoon perspective the big draws are all but done or announced were NOT going to get this dream line of every figure imaginable from cartoons and toys NOT going to happen. Now what mattel should understand is numbers. I can guarantee anyone reading this that the remaining MOTU characters that are left all outsold any POP character and doubled in sales of any NA character left. excluding maybe the orbs or rotar and twistoid (then again , maybe they did) I personally still want a variety to come out till were done, but I'll be ****** if I have to customize people like

    DRAGSTOR
    RIO BLAST
    EXTENDAR
    NINJOR- these last four probably outsold the entire POP line that's left
    BLADE
    SAUROD

    after those are done I'll still subscribe but that's who's left for me everything after that is gravy. Sadly I'll probably love the new Gwildor
    over say a character like Netossa (the blah of released POP imho) enjoy the ride and fingers crossed for say....MYP EVILSEED!!!!
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  24. #99
    Heroic Warrior SpiritOfTeela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain View Post
    I appreciate that the line has given PoP and NA fans a selection of stuff they want, but I don't like being stuck with a subscription and having to pay $38 per figure, to get those. I had a sub for the first year, and really couldn't justify paying that amount every month... which is really sad when figures like Sorceress, Fisto, and Clamp Champ don't get day of sales.
    Sorceress and Fisto had day of sales.

    Regardless, what you miss is that we pay $38 per figure to get many more figures we would rather be something else, than you do.

    You have to put up with a PoP character every few months. If we "support the line" and get a sub, we pay for every month in between. So you bought two figures this year that you rather would not have - we had to buy every other thing to get those two figures in order to sub and "support the line".

    Get it? Probably not, but I tried.

    In any case, if you are subbing next year, as we have already covered - 2014 is going to be at least 1/3 PoP, so it's time for the fans who have gotten virtually everything over the past few years to subsidize those of us who have spent just as much money as they have yet have far fewer of the figures promised that got us to sub in the first place.

  25. #100
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    I'm not a fan of "factions." Sure, fans have preferences and I understand that, but it's all under the MOTU banner now. Anybody still clinging to "NA fan," "POP fan," "vintage MOTU fan," "200X fan," etc. should consider letting go of the idea of a divided MOTU and instead think of their "faction" as part of a greater whole. Vintage MOTU is the legendary hub from which all else grew and the subsequent "factions" are epic chapters in a larger story. Each chapter adds new elements and characters to the story. I'm happy to get characters from all aspects of MOTU and am disappointed when I see people ditching the line over character selection issues.
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