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Thread: Two Bad will have no day of sale!

  1. #526
    HAAAAAAAAAPPYYYYYYYY..... Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    I sincerely doubt there has been a negative impact on sub sales. I know it's a microcosm and there is no way to tell if it is indicative of the customer base as a whole, but the .Org's sub sales have spiked since the announcement. Eleven percent of the total subs on the org have come (as indicated ni the sub sales thread) in the last two days since the Two-Bad announcement. For every fence sitter who has decided not to subscribe, there is a subscriber who has decided to add an additional sub, and then some. Resellers who have not placed their orders yet know they can order a few more because of the premium now placed on Two-Bad.
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  2. #527
    Heroic Warrior Jaw Bridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KUZEH View Post
    Please share...

    Well, let's see.

    1.) Hoverboard Scandal. I cannot post links to other websites without getting into trouble, but you can Google that one if you want to see a real in-depth look at full blown chicanery from a company toward customers, and the justifiable anger that came in response.

    2.) Castle Grayscandal. There is a reason why many people are dumping the set, due to false pretenses used to originally sell the item. I suggest you use Google to see the massive cardboard schematic used to hook people into pre-orders. Juxtapose that schematic to the actual set, et voila, it's a classic case of bait and switch.

    3.) Dis-allowance of ability to purchase Clamp Champ, Fang Man and Sea Hawk all indicate the flowing spite that Mattel has toward customers for not doing as they are told to (buy a subscription).

    4.) Mattel listed various figures as "SOLD OUT" when they were never sold out. A textbook case of this is the SDCC Vykron, listed as "SOLD OUT" on their website, yet he is popping up at Big Lots stores Nationwide. Same applies to the Molarr set. Oops, looks like my point about False Statements is vindicated again. If they lied about Vykron being "SOLD OUT," they could have just as easily been lying to us about Clawful, Leech and Man-E-Faces being sold out. I don't buy the "second run overstock" one bit, given that if they lie about one figure's stock, they could just as easily be lying about others.

    5.) This latest move with Two Bad is a strong-arm move that could also be construed as a Scare Tactic. The message being conveyed here is, "Do as I say, or you won't be allowed to have what you want." In business relationships with customers, this is hardly the recipe for success for the company. In fact, if the line dies completely, it is BECAUSE of behaviors like this. People have neither the patience nor the interest in being bullied by a company in to doing it's bidding, so again, if the line dies, it's because of negative behavior like this. The Clamp Champ scandal almost reaked of retaliation toward fans for simply not doing what they were told to do. Two Bad isn't much different in terms of this.

    6.) The foisting and coercing of the Foe Men and Karatti onto people's credit cards sent a considerable number of subscribers running for the hills. To make it mandatory that people buy these kinds of unwanted figures is inexcusable. I won't even bother discussing the mandatory purchase of the Star Sisters and Dactus, as they seem equally disliked by the majority of the fans.

    7.) Open and honest policy is disallowed by Mattel. Like I said, if anyone pushing the subscription (even people on this very site) want people to fully get on board with the subscription service and stay on board, then why not allow us to know the 12 name line-up for the year? Other toy companies show their fans what to expect, so why cannot Mattel do the same? Oh, that's right. Because fans have to be baited into buying the first few "wanted" figures so that the mouse trap can close on their wallets, and then they will be forced to buy things they don't want or have the need for. Isn't this wonderful?

    I would write more, but I have a few things to take care of.

  3. #528
    Heroic Warrior SSj3 Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    A lot of folks are seeing Mattel's actions here as heavy handed, and they are. It isn't just a "marketing technique," it's the caveman's club we've grown use to. And it isn't productive at this point in the line when other options would cause much less controversy. They've already said that we'll get a snake man a year, but they can't officially reveal the figures they've already decided to make.

    You and others are ignoring that this isn't just an isolated action; it comes on top of the often heavy handed and sometimes outright arrogant way Mattel has treated this fan base. There's a sometimes ugly history here, from Mattel's comments, QC problems and the problem known as Digital River. Doing something like this that is so manipulative is not a smart move when you are already on fairly thin ice with a large portion of your market.

    As I've stated, the moves before this were positive, promoting the line and the idea "we're all in this together." That's the mantra they pushed last year, and it got us over the line. Punitive measures like this undermine said strategy that actually worked when we faced this point before. My fear is that this was entirely unnecessary and may actually have a negative impact on sub sales. Make folks feel like your pushing them, and their natural reaction is to push back. We don't need needless conflict right now, or blatant acts of desperation that undermine all the positive energy Mattel had going.
    Yeah, right, because everyone was so happy and positive about Mattel before this, and no one EVER complained. Whether or not it is "heavy-handed" or "arrogant" is your opinion, but it smacks of a personification that just isn't there. There is nothing personal in this for Mattel, they are just trying to do what is best for the line, because that is how they benefit most. When we don't meet enough subs because too many people only want a few figures, and decide they will just get those few figures day of sale, the line dies. Between the two, I could make a better case for cherry-pickers not caring about their fellow MOTU fans than Mattel at this point. After all, like it or not, Mattel is doing everything it can to keep this line going right now. Can you say the same about everyone here? No one here is saying Mattel is perfect, and Digital River is definitely a cluster-blank, but if we are not willing to step up and sub and do what it takes to keep MOTUC going, then we have no one to blame for ourselves when we lose this line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw Bridge View Post

    3.) Dis-allowance of ability to purchase Clamp Champ, Fang Man and Sea Hawk all indicate the flowing spite that Mattel has toward customers for not doing as they are told to (buy a subscription).

    4.) Mattel listed various figures as "SOLD OUT" when they were never sold out. A textbook case of this is the SDCC Vykron, listed as "SOLD OUT" on their website, yet he is popping up at Big Lots stores Nationwide. Same applies to the Molarr set. Oops, looks like my point about False Statements is vindicated again. If they lied about Vykron being "SOLD OUT," they could have just as easily been lying to us about Clawful, Leech and Man-E-Faces being sold out. I don't buy the "second run overstock" one bit, given that if they lie about one figure's stock, they could just as easily be lying about others.

    5.) This latest move with Two Bad is a strong-arm move that could also be construed as a Scare Tactic. The message being conveyed here is, "Do as I say, or you won't be allowed to have what you want." In business relationships with customers, this is hardly the recipe for success for the company. In fact, if the line dies completely, it is BECAUSE of behaviors like this. People have neither the patience nor the interest in being bullied by a company in to doing it's bidding, so again, if the line dies, it's because of negative behavior like this. The Clamp Champ scandal almost reaked of retaliation toward fans for simply not doing what they were told to do. Two Bad isn't much different in terms of this.

    6.) The foisting and coercing of the Foe Men and Karatti onto people's credit cards sent a considerable number of subscribers running for the hills. To make it mandatory that people buy these kinds of unwanted figures is inexcusable. I won't even bother discussing the mandatory purchase of the Star Sisters and Dactus, as they seem equally disliked by the majority of the fans.
    This right here, all this, is how we know you are wrong. You, personally, do not like the sub model. Fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But there is no "bullying", "forcing", or "coercing". They aren't the IRS, where men with guns come and take you away if you refuse to pay them. You know the terms, you can choose to buy or not buy a subscription based on the terms they set out. There was no "Clamp Champ scandal." We were told beforehand some figures may not be available day of sale. Figures are held back based on CS requirements to make sure there are enough to replace any that defective, and the remainder is sold after a period of time. Again, if you choose not to buy a sub, that is your choice, but you have no right to demand someone sell you what you want on your terms. They have a choice too.
    Last edited by SSj3 Derek; August 15, 2013 at 04:26pm.
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  4. #529
    Heroic Warrior Jaw Bridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosed Ovor View Post
    What happens in April? Is it a Mayan calendar type of thing?
    We should have some kind of foresight as to what is released in the coming months.

    If it's cool stuff that people actually want, then the subscribers won't dump their subscriptions in massive numbers.

    If it's slime like the Foe Men and Karatti, then the subbers will dump their subscriptions in massive numbers.

    It's not advanced particle physics to understand this kind of thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    A lot of folks are seeing Mattel's actions here as heavy handed, and they are. It isn't just a "marketing technique," it's the caveman's club we've grown use to. And it isn't productive at this point in the line when other options would cause much less controversy. They've already said that we'll get a snake man a year, but they can't officially reveal the figures they've already decided to make.

    You and others are ignoring that this isn't just an isolated action; it comes on top of the often heavy handed and sometimes outright arrogant way Mattel has treated this fan base. There's a sometimes ugly history here, from Mattel's comments, QC problems and the problem known as Digital River. Doing something like this that is so manipulative is not a smart move when you are already on fairly thin ice with a large portion of your market.

    As I've stated, the moves before this were positive, promoting the line and the idea "we're all in this together." That's the mantra they pushed last year, and it got us over the line. Punitive measures like this undermine said strategy that actually worked when we faced this point before. My fear is that this was entirely unnecessary and may actually have a negative impact on sub sales. Make folks feel like your pushing them, and their natural reaction is to push back. We don't need needless conflict right now, or blatant acts of desperation that undermine all the positive energy Mattel had going.

    It is relieving to see someone else who understands this.

    You clearly understand the fundamental model of a successful customer-business relationship, which is excellent.

    An example of a company which respects and listens to customers is Ford Motor Company, and their intent on pro-actively supporting their clientele is partially correlated to their continuous success in an otherwise dreary domestic auto market.

  5. #530
    Heroic Warrior Science Friction's Avatar
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    Unfortunately for us MOTU fans who are "all in" all the time, I think a lot of people can't see the forest from the trees. By that I mean, they only see the part of MOTU they love and refuse to acknowledge the rest. If it's not X they don't care. Hey, that's fine, but do you really have to go around calling things you don't like inferior or bad? I read so many comments from people who likely have very little knowledge of business. The world is made up of a lot of worker bees and very few Queens after all.

    I stand by Mattel's decisions, especially regarding Two-Bad, and realize that to make something like this work difficult decisions have to be made.
    Last edited by Science Friction; August 15, 2013 at 04:45pm. Reason: Grammar correction.

  6. #531
    Heroic Warrior PantherCult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw Bridge View Post
    We should have some kind of foresight as to what is released in the coming months.
    We really already do, though. In addition to the 4 figures they have shown us for sure we also already know Blade and Scorpia are included.
    In addition we have confirmation that either Tung Lashor or Squeeeze will come this year. We also have confirmation that either Extendar or Blast Attack will be included in 2014. Finally we have confirmation that Huntara will be included in the 2014 line up. So, of the 17 items we know will be included (12 monthly, 4 quarterly, 1 holiday) we have definitive knowledge of 7 of them and knowledge of 2 more will be from a known pool of 4 characters. So more than half the total items are known. That's not as much room for your so called "slime".

    Part of the thing people take issue with isn't the actual facts you present but your completely biased choice of language. What you call "strongarm, bullying and coersion" other people are perfectly willing to call marketing strategy. To-may-to, to-mah-to.

    Just because you don't like something doesn't make it eeeeevil.

  7. #532
    Heroic Warrior Hosed Ovor's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think Mattel wanted to limit Two Bad's availability. If they had they probably would have announced it sooner. I think it's an eleventh hour attempt to boost sub sales based upon their concern that the sub may not go through. I think based upon their analysis they are expecting it to be tight and this was one of the few things they could do at the last minute to tip the balance.

  8. #533
    Slave Girl for MOTUC! Jean's Avatar
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    Man, I can't wait to have my Two Bad! I'm so glad I subbed up for the awesome year that is to be 2014! I love Mattel.
    Proud supporter of the Snake Men.

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  9. #534
    Heroic Warrior Strongdar, Master of Acom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    Do you have any evidence that supports your claim that this somehow decreases subs? For the record, BBTS' statement does NOT support you, in fact quite the opposite. This statement shows that LESS subs would be purchased if unpopular characters would be sub only. Prince Adam's dad said it pretty well - one subber is worth more than five people who cherry pick the two most popular figs. Selling 12 figures is better than selling 10. I think you are confusing what you personally want with is actually good business. After all, the one piece of anecdotal evidence you produced actually suggests you are wrong. Again - If you have any data that supports your claim, and numbers that would prove you right, please produce them. Mattel has marketing professionals and reams of data that the are basing their selling strategy on. It's not personal for them.
    The whole idea of 1 subber being worth 5 people who cherry pick only makes sense as a strategy for Mattel if you assume a lot of people who want Two Bad are going to subscribe to make sure they get him. Most won't subscribe just to get 1 or 2 figures. Many in this thread are already saying they'll pay the secondary market price for him or just bail out of collecting the line entirely. I explained how BBTS' statement does support me, not because they worded it in favor of my argument, but because they stated some clear facts that I pointed to. They are saying they are having to clearance out the less popular figures, which prevents them from ordering enough subs to get enough Two Bads and Ram Mans to meet demand. As me and others have demonstrated with clear evidence, when Mattel makes the less popular figures sub exclusive, BBTS sells out of them at a reasonable mark-up! Since they know they can do that, they would order more subs to get more Two Bads and Ram Mans, because they won't be losing money on ANY figure. And they would be happy to sell MORE of the heavy-produced popular figures at a lower price if they could. Because most real businesses want more sales and customers and don't need insane mark-ups to thrive. Obviously BBTS sells thousands of retail figures for only a few bucks more than retail price. And the fewer fans who want to cherry pick the obscure characters on BBTS can do so without going broke, so the exclusivity isn't a big problem for the fans either.

    The money Mattel could make producing a whole lot extra of a couple figures like Two Bad in a year for DOS would probably equate to the minimal extras they could sell of the other 10 obscure characters they made combined. I don't totally disagree that it might be good for Mattel to make EVERY figure sub-exclusive as someone said, but this would necessarily force fans who aren't subscribers to have to pay more for the popular characters or go without them. And when that happens, many stop collecting the line entirely. Not to mention, on the popular figures, a lot of fans who ARE subbing would like to buy extras of them, and now Mattel will lose those sales as well.

    Anyone who understands how capitalism works can see this is just completely back-asswards. A high demand is supposed to cause producers to produce MORE of something, not to make it more limited. Mattel is driving fans crazy by trying to force people to buy things they don't want, when they could balance things out perfectly and make more people happy customers by producing MORE of the popular figures to make up for lowering production on the obscure ones. If Mattel said every non-vintage-based figure is now sub exclusive, the sub orders from resellers like BBTS would skyrocket, and it wouldn't hurt fans that badly. And subs from fans wouldn't drop much, because few people are subbing just to get 1 or 2 figures.
    Last edited by Strongdar, Master of Acom; August 15, 2013 at 07:03pm.

  10. #535
    Adora's Father dorrmann's Avatar
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    Alright guys and gals - several mods have gone through here and edited/deleted a TON of posts. If your post is nowhere to be found, that's probably why.

    Please remember to keep this thread on topic. Further off-topic discussion, especially discussion that is disrespectful towards others will be deleted and reminders/infractions will be given.

    He-Man would understand that everyone has the right to sub or not if they like.
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  11. #536
    Heroic Warrior geooco's Avatar
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    It's back!

    Let me wrangle this back on topic. I think it's too bad that Too-Bad will have no day-of-sale stock. Huh? Huh? Did you see what I did there?
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  12. #537
    Heroic Warrior darkmoon766's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    I'm sure what you are saying here, since your post is pretty vague, but I will try to answer based on what you seem to be saying.
    Thank you for replying.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    It looks like you are saying just by virtue of a figure being scarce, its price will go up. Now while there is some virtue to the notion that scarcity increases value, that is by no means an absolute. Scarcity only increases based on the demand for an item outstripping it supply. You could be in possession of the only bag-or figure in the entire world, but if no one else anywhere wants it, it doesn't have much value.
    Spirit of Hordak, a figure no one ever wanted, is averaging a $45 value on The secondary market.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    Now then, I understand what Strongdar was saying, but I believe he is wrong. However, I don't think you understand what I said.
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    You see, the demand for Two-Bad is much greater than for, say, Hydron. Therefore, more people will subscribe with Two-Bad as a sub exclusive figure. Cherry picking the value if the few vintage characters that were massively over-produced, and thus have low value, and trying to extrapolate that to Two-Bad just doesn't work.
    I understand that Two-Bad will fetch substantially more than Clamp Champ, he is a High c low b lister, and clamp champ is a High D low c lister.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    A more accurate comparison would be to Fisto, Teela, Shadow Weaver, Whiplash, Beastman, or the Sorceress.
    The only one of these that I would say compares to Two-bad is Whiplash, who's value fluctuates wildly. He also has 2 display options making him more demanded. But seems to average $80.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    Now look at the resale value of figures like Flipshot (Icarius), Carnivus, or Optikk. As a rule the high demand characters hold their value increase in value much more when produced in similar numbers to the low demand characters. In fact, King He-man, the highest value figure you listed, has roughly 1/3 the value of Shadow Weaver, despite less of him being produced. We know it was less since less 2013 subs were purchased. That alone should tell you something - In 2012 an extremely high demand figure was sub only and more subs were purchased.
    I agree with this. It makes sense that a figure with a higher demand and the same supply will hold a higher value than a figure with a lesser value and the same supply. But if you lower the supply on less demanded figures (my whole point) it will increase value and perceived demand. Completeists are crazy. Look at Spirit of Hordak $45 and Strobo: $120 average right now! Who cared about this guy before he was so hard to get? Almost no one.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    The resellers are fine with this, in fact I would imagine they are happy. Notice how BBTS has already completely sold out of Two-Bad at $80 each. If Hydron were the sub-only figure, do you think that would have happened? Almost certainly not, since the demand for Hyrdon is much lower.
    Of course the ratio of value determined by supply and demand will rise or fall based on the amount of supply or demand. If Hydron was made sub only, his real and perceived value would go up (conjecturally to at least $10 more than sub prices, maybe more depending on character value) This way, resellers like BBTS would be more likely to move more product more quickly. And not be buying subs just for 2-4 characters to sell at a large profit all year but a steady profit on ALL items in the sub and not be sitting on so much overstock of items that are impossible to move without taking a loss. (as noted from Strongdar's quote from BBTS.) Also,Yoda freakmaster posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by yodafreakmaster
    I would like a very clear answer from Scott on how many figure slots will have no "day of stock" available. If he answers that it is tbd or cannot state a specific number, maybe he can at least commit to saying there will be "more", "the same amount", or "less".
    The answer to this question is HUGE for folks willing to buy loads of subs they don't need to support the line. I bought 30 extra last year that I did not want, but felt I needed to buy, to help the line stay afloat. Having no "day of stock" on Fang Man and Clamp Champ this year has "helped" to offset losses on the likes of the FFM/Karatti/Netossa/etc.
    Even Preternia He-Man (produced in large quantities and a D list character with a boring action figure) holds his value at $30.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    The popular characters are the ones that have to carry the line, and given the decreasing number of popular characters left, cherry picking seems like a much more attractive option. A lot fewer people would sub if they could just get Two-Bad DOS. In fact, that's why we are seeing so many people in this thread get upset. A lot of people feel that if they don't sub, they won't get Two Bad. This thread itself even supports that fact that Two-Bad as an exclusive supports more subbing.
    Here's the poll Asking if the Two-Bad Sub exclusiveness influenced sub buying.
    From the time period where this was announced, and the amount of people buying subs on the "post here when you buy a 2014 sub" the number of people posting they have purchased a sub means nothing unless they specifically say they did it because of the Two-bad exclusivity. So far, 3 People said they were buying subs due to two bad, out of 103 sold since the announcement. Of course, some may not mention it. But you will never know why subs are purchased. More than likely, the uptick is coming from increases in sub purchases at the end of the open sale days. The poll is the only real way to measure anything. Obviously, the poll doesn't show the 0.3% of overall subs that have been purchased so far from people saying that it swayed them to purchase a sub in the "post here when you purchase" thread. Also this thread will not show how the exclusivity will effect the sub buying of a majority of resellers, a substantial portion of sub buyers.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    We definitely wouldn't see this kind of hand-wringing if Hydron or Strong-arm were sub only. In fact, we'd see a lot of "oh good, I don't want them, so I don't have to sub." like we've seen in years past with sub-exclusives not that many people cared about. Again, Mattel has marketing professionals and reams of data they are drawing on.
    According to Toy-Guru, they have 3 dedicated people working on the line. And from all of the problems we have seen, I believe it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSj3 Derek View Post
    If DoS would sell more, they would do it. If you have any numbers to back the argument that DoS would somehow do better, please show them to us, because no one has produced any.
    Resellers complain they can not sell product. Collectors complain they get stuck with worthless figures they don't want and can't get rid of. Making the over all value of the sub increase will make it more appealing to both of these groups to buy a sub=more sub sales. Also Having DOS Two-Bads= More Twobads sold. And,

    Now for the math. I will do some loose estimates here, obviously no one will know final market prices.

    Assuming there will be no more announcements about sub exclusive figures, Lets say the only sub exclusive is Two-Bad and you will have at least 3 POP and 2 NA figures with DOS(the hard figures to sell) in the sub.
    Two-Bad Market Price $80- cost $25=$55profit.
    3 POP figures A list Market Price 3($25)-cost 3($25)=$0 profit
    2 NA figures A list Market Price 2($20)-cost2($25)=$10 loss
    In this scenario, only looking at the mentioned figures, You have a $45 profit or perceived value gained if you don't sell.

    Now lets assume Two Bad is DOS, and the pop and na figs are sub only.
    Two-Bad Market Price $45- cost $25=$20profit.
    3 POP figures A list Market Price 3($45)-cost 3($25)=$60 profit
    2 NA figures A list Market Price 2($30)-cost2($25)=$10 profit.
    In this scenario, only looking at these figures, you have a $90 profit or perceived value gained.

    In scenario one, using a scare tactic, you anger a large part of the non subbing fan base, and get a very few people to buy subs to get two bad and take losses on the other figures which are of no worth to them.
    In scenario 2, Fans of any faction will be able to buy more of what ever figures they want as aftermarket prices are stabilized.
    In Scenario 2, resellers and people who wanted Two-bad already can Buy MULTIPLE Two-bads,(giving mattel more direct profit) and everyone who buys a sub will have more perceived over all value whether they keep the figures or sell them, encouraging more sub sales. Having more perceived over all value will also strengthen the brand as opposed to Making it look weak in value and having to use scare tactics. Since you mention supply and demand so much, you obviously know there is a sweet spot for everything. Limiting the supply of low demanded items and increasing supply of high demanded items ALWAYS makes more sense. Scenario one goes completely against this. See 200x Jungle attack Heman to Evil-Lyn ratio. How did that go? Retailers stopped making orders and Fans stopped caring.

    Other examples of similar scarcity driving prices on obscure non demanded items: The Transformers Collectors Club Exclusive Figures. All of those Figures are just repaints or redecos of highly obscure figures that 95% of transformers collectors could care less about, yet they hold there value and more due to their scarcity.

    I have given you lots of actual data, and you have given me examples (which did make sense). I do appreciate your side of things. Ultimately, no one can see what the differences would be if the high demanded, less demanded or both(leaving mid tier figures dos only) would actually do to the market prices of figures and sub sales. But my opinion stands.

    I can not argue with making the most demanded AND the least demanded figures no DOS(leaving only the mid demanded figures for DOS), but it is not he best option for making everyone happy. Having DOS for the most demanded items makes cherry pickers happy, and no DOS on less demanded items makes sub-holders and resellers happy. Two-bad it would seem the best model for Matty, as they do not care about direct sales, (or making everyone happy or promoting good will for the brand) they care more about selling to resellers, as it is apparent that the majority of final end purchasers of the subs do not actually want every product. If you check many posts, most people do not have room for all of the figures, even if they wanted them. Most super hardcore collectors would probably prefer that some figures did not even exist so they would not have to have them to keep their "completist" streak alive. Since they don't care about direct sales, (Higher DOS on high demand figures IE Ram Man,(had high DOS, still keeps Price on secondary market) and Two-Bad,they might as well go sub only, and basically send out subs as "case packs" And not sell anything in a single unit form on Matty. Ultimately, you would think cutting out the middleman would give you the most profit, but it is not the case with MOTUC and Matty.


    P.S. After listening to Roast Gooble Dinner 119, I find it quite possible that since Two-Bad will Have to be manufactured around the end of the year with so many other Mattel items, that it might actually be that they would not have the time or resources to allocate to this small collector line to have enough Two-Bads available for DOS, but only enough to cover subscriptions. Making everyone question or agree if it was the right decision to make actually be no decision at all, but circumstances beyond control. It is very convenient though, A week before sub sales end, Two bad, During the Filmation sub drive Fangman...

  13. #538
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    I always thought Two-Bad would be the best exclusive to raise sub sales.

    Now it seems he's now become the real 2014 sub-exclusive. Unnamed One has been downgraded to "sub-surprise figure".

  14. #539
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    While I understand the business sense of having Two-Bad as DoS only, the inference we can surely draw from this is that Mattel is prepared to have DoS stock for figures that are destined not to sell as well. If that's not true, why don't we get an announcement saying the line is now sub-only? At least people would know where they stand.

    As things are at the moment, it seems they are prepared to over-stock on an NA figure like Hydron but can't be bothered to produce an extra thousand Two-Bads or so which would certainly sell. It hardly seems like a logical way to balance the costs of figures.

    Some plain honesty about this being a stick to sell subscriptions would be refreshing. We can all see it. Can Mattel admit it?
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  15. #540
    Heroic Warrior Evil Weed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colder Soldier View Post
    I always thought Two-Bad would be the best exclusive to raise sub sales.

    Now it seems he's now become the real 2014 sub-exclusive. Unnamed One has been downgraded to "sub-surprise figure".


    Indeed! Two Bad is definitely more tantilizing than "The Unnamed One." Honestly, they should have spread out the original MOTU figures a little more. That would at least help with people who are saying they don't want to sub. We wouldn't even be worried about people not subbing if there were still characters left like Trap Jaw, Buzz Off and Webstor.

  16. #541
    Heroic Warrior lemure77's Avatar
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    the simple point is this. I am not contracting myself to $501 plus shipping and so on, be it quarterly or monthly, for 2 figures being Two Bad and Modulock. I am not losing money monthly to try and sell off the for some reason overproduced "other" figures on ebay or where ever just to get these 2 figures. Two bad would sell out in no time day of sale. but they decide to not make enough to force the issue.
    So I pass. again, as said last year before the amazing last 20 minutes 40% boost in sales, if the line fail blame me for not being forced to pay over 600 bucks for the awesome two bad, modulock..and some other figures which anymore have a slim chance of me saying something like yes..I will spend money on an angry bunny.
    Find what you seek only when you look in the right places...

  17. #542
    HAAAAAAAAAPPYYYYYYYY..... Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemure77 View Post
    the simple point is this. I am not contracting myself to $501 plus shipping and so on, be it quarterly or monthly, for 2 figures being Two Bad and Modulock. I am not losing money monthly to try and sell off the for some reason overproduced "other" figures on ebay or where ever just to get these 2 figures. Two bad would sell out in no time day of sale. but they decide to not make enough to force the issue.
    So I pass. again, as said last year before the amazing last 20 minutes 40% boost in sales, if the line fail blame me for not being forced to pay over 600 bucks for the awesome two bad, modulock..and some other figures which anymore have a slim chance of me saying something like yes..I will spend money on an angry bunny.
    lemure, if you are only wanting a couple of figures, I can agree that the sub probably isn't for you. This shortage is designed to attract the people who were going to want roughly (at least) half of the figures.

    No DoS Two-Bad wasn't going to convince the folks who only wanted a few figures.
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  18. #543
    Heroic Warrior lemure77's Avatar
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    Thanks Prince Adams Dad. This just mirrors last year for me far too much. all the announced stuff and I wanted Ram Man. Luckily I found someone to sell him to me and didn't have to deal with this. And having seen all the stuff up to the end of the year I was still right. The list went from just him to a pair of horde troopers and Mantenna. ONly thing unsecured right now is the troopers. And I don't have a ton of faith in 2014 to take the chance I might pick up a ton more in that year. So I will keep my hopes up ebay won't be the only place that sees a bunch of extra Two bads. At least..for the moment. Modulock is a DOS figure. Though that being announced today would not be too much the shock.
    Good luck to all and I hope the line does continue on for a good long time. Ad I am sticking heavily to the Two bad decision being just a great sales move but still kind of cold to the fans of cherries over bunnies and goats
    Find what you seek only when you look in the right places...

  19. #544
    Heroic Warrior Evil Weed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythew View Post
    I struck a deal with a friend over selling off the unwanteds and got the money together. I have one subscription.
    I feel like a traitor.
    A traitor with a Two Bad figure, but still a traitor. LOL!
    Congrats! I need a skelly thumbs-up e-motu-con!

    This really made me happy!

  20. #545
    Master of Time & Space Jedi_Master_Jeremy's Avatar
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    No day of sale? Smells like money!
    It's all about being polished when it counts!

  21. #546
    Ray of Sunshine Lookie's Avatar
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    Due to the pending arrival of my son (Sept 17th), I cannot sub up this year. Day care costs are going to be killer next year and that hits the budget (hard). It sucks that I may miss out on TB since there are no DOS, but I don't regret having a son soon. He will play with these great upgrades of the toys I loved as a child in a few years.
    Jeremy Soronen
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  22. #547
    I Love Filmation Variants TUC138's Avatar
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    Too Bad that there is no DOS for Two Bad !
    THE BIGGEST, BADDEST SUPPORTER OF VARIANTS IN MOTUC..... JUST BEHIND MGM THAT IS !!

    MOTUC Mini Comics, Sub Exclusive Maps & Castle Grayskull Exclusive Posters FOR SALE !

  23. #548
    Heroic Warrior Xena-She-Ra's Avatar
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    Sadly this is what turns me off this toy line. I'm a huge fan and have supported this line from day one but to be honest i can't afford to buy the sub and I actually don't want to. I've always been a day of sale fan and now that two bad it's only for sub holders it just really disappoints me. They have done this a couple times n it just v turns me off this line. Why should we be forced to buy a figure we don't want? coz that's wat is happening when u have to buy the sub just for a specific figure. I still believe they should do a pre sale thing. They tell us two bad will be release this certain month n if u want him u pre order him or who ever it is. If u don't want them u don't pre order them. That way they don't over make a certain figure n that way u r still locked in to the purchase but for the specific figure u want.
    Xena & She-Ra Rule

  24. #549
    Heroic Warrior Adam_Adamant's Avatar
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    ^ this. Couldn't have said it better

  25. #550
    Widget beastman's Avatar
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    Bad management brings moves like this ... If you have people who don't have the ability to sell items next move is to begin threats etc very bad move ...
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