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Thread: I like Filmation better :(

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    MYP had better storytelling but the redesigns were terrible and the toys made everyone hideous deformed hunchbacks. So yeah, for everything else FILMATION was better.
    I agree with that- especally Beast man. Some of the characters were so pumped up (like Trap Jaw). But I felt some were actually improved. Especally Evil Lyn, Orko, and Mer Man.
    I wasn't a fan of Skeletor's fangs or Teela's ridiculously long hair but they are my only gripes about their design.

    The main thing I don't like about the 2002 series is that it was a reboot and not a continuation. Because of the way Roboto is introduced it's clearly not a prequel either. But on the whole I think the 2002 series is just as good as the filmation. I just wish there were more as they seemed to evolve the characters. Even when Filmation did this with Teela's quest, everything was put back to normal again at the end. I'd loved to have seen the moment where Teela discovers Adam is He man and moves into Grayskull. If nothing else it may force an apology for all the remarks about Adam's cowardace.
    Last edited by Trap-Jaw-; September 13, 2013 at 04:08am.

  2. #52
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    I think Orko and Evil-Lyn (the grey skin, while better than yellow, is still off-putting) look significantly better in the Filmation series.

    Mer-Man was a major improvement. Clawful was a big step back.
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  3. #53
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    The Filmation crew of writers, actors, directors, artists, animators, and musicians was the best team ever assembled.
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  4. #54
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancak View Post
    It has nothing to do with nostalgia, Filmation is just far better than MYP. You need to actually go back and watch the Filmation series, and then you'll see that there was a lot of continuity. Larry DiTillio was great, but you also had Bob Forward, Paul Dini, Tom Tataranowicz, Robert Lamb, Tom Sito, J. Michael Straczynski, Michael Reaves, J. Brynne Stevens, Robby London, Douglas Booth, and many others who were incredible writers and moved on to do other great things.

    And get off the cheap thing. They did what they could with what resources they had, and they put out an incredible product. To me, every episode of MYP was a toy commercial. The only times I ever thought Filmation was trying to sell toys was the tail end of She-Ra, when Mattel told them to get in as many of the new characters as possible before the show came to an end.
    I think nostalgia has A LOT to do with all of this "Filmation was the best thing ever" POV. I find it humorous when someone like yourself states that I should go back and watch the Filmation series again, like I'm basing my views on a foggy recollection of the series. Did you take into account that someone like myself grew up watching the Filmation MOTU and own the entire series on DVD? Or that I may have watched several of the more popular episodes including "The Best Of" DVD within the last few weeks? In your view, it is impossible for me to have the exact opposite of yourself considering I HAVE watched it recently?

    As for my comments on the writing, I stand by them. When James Eatock, who is the resident expert on Filmation writes what I had observed regarding Filmation and their continuity, or lack thereof, it only confirms what is painfully obvious to me now. The Larry Ditillio episodes do have continuity but the writing gets pretty dumbed down after that.

    As for the names you threw out there, Tom Sito for example. I believe Tom was an animator but please correct me if I'm wrong. My main issue is the overall weak and very simplistic writing. Now Bob Forward is a really good writer. As a matter of fact, Bob and Larry were the writers for Beast Wars so I know they are both very good writers. When I saw his name in the He-Man credits, I took note of it. He was one of 3 writers for "The Problem With Power" episode, which was good but did you know that he didn't write any other episode of the original He-Man?

    Robert Lamb is credited with writing 4 episodes of a 130 episode series, so his 3% doesn't contribute a whole lot to the Filmation MOTU series. Out of the 4 episodes Robert Lamb wrote, I really enjoyed "Into the Abyss" and "Not So Blind" but not the other two episodes. I don't see how his 1.5% of good stuff makes a huge difference here. Not to mention that these 4 episodes don't have any continuity with any other episodes and are nothing more than stand alone episodes, which is what most of the series was.

    Michael Straczynski wrote 8 Filmation episodes and the only one I like AND remember is the "Origin of the Sorceress" because it provides some backstory to a series that had ZERO for how Prince Adam first became He-Man. With the exception of the episode I like, I don't think the 7 others contribute to any sort of continuity or story arc.

    I'm not really interested in going over every name you can throw out there but IF there some major story arc that I missed or real continuity outside of Larry Ditillio's work and a few other episodes, point it out for me because I don't see it. As with any great story, essay, or thesis, there needs to be a beginning, a middle, and an ending. Filmation had none of these. MYP ended too soon but in 39 episodes, we had an origin story for the protagonist as well as his main adversary. We had nice origin episodes for characters like Two Bad and Odiphus(Stinkor). The writing in MYP was much smarter. Within its short life, MYP had 5 episodes written by Larry Ditillio including "The Price of Deceit" which is definitely one of the best episodes of MYP. Skeletor is written as a very vengeful and heartless character who is out to kill Evil Lyn. This was COMPLETELY absent with the caricature that was Filmation Skeletor.

    Filmation may be "far better than MYP" to someone like yourself and I can't changed your mind. But other than nostalgia, I don't see any objective evidence to justify Filmation's perceived superiority. I love and prefer the Filmation backgrounds as well as the music by Shuki Levy, but those two aspects don't contribute to the writing or lack thereof. The "Council of Evil" was a great season ending two part episode with that ended on a cliff hanger, something Filmation never had. I like some real fighting in a sword & sorcery show as well as some suspense. The "Council of Evil" had both, and for me, those two episodes plus the season two conclusion "The Last Stand" blow the entire Filmation He-Man series out of the water.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; September 14, 2013 at 05:20am.
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  5. #55
    Always Hungry.... Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    I think nostalgia has A LOT to do with all of this.
    Some people are never going to get over this just like SW the only sw films in their eyes are the first 3..Even though the guy that CREATED Star Wars made 3 more films...

    Conversations like these are ALWAYS going to be one sided because it does not make a valid arguement and certain people are not going to go over all the facts (or posts) and pick & choose what they want to defend instead of the whole picture and or story..Filmation was written for KIDS from a different time for different generations and at first when I heard about MYP I thought it would be meeh but it was superior in most ways. It's like buying your first car and never selling it even though it's costing you a fortune to keep up or still keeping calling your first girlfriend even though now she's married and has kids....

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    I think nostalgia has A LOT to do with all of this "Filmation was the best thing ever" POV. I find it humorous when someone like yourself states that I should go back and watch the Filmation series again, like I'm basing my views on a foggy recollection of the series. Did you take into account that someone like myself grew up watching the Filmation MOTU and own the entire series on DVD? Or that I may have watched several of the more popular episodes including "The Best Of" DVD within the last few weeks? In your view, it is impossible for me to have the exact opposite of yourself considering I HAVE watched it recently?

    As for my comments on the writing, I stand by them. When James Eatock, who is the resident expert on Filmation writes what I had observed regarding Filmation and their continuity, or lack thereof, it only confirms what is painfully obvious to me now. The Larry Ditillio episodes do have continuity but the writing gets pretty dumbed down after that.

    As for the names you threw out there, Tom Sito for example. I believe Tom was an animator but please correct me if I'm wrong. My main issue is the overall weak and very simplistic writing. Now Bob Forward is a really good writer. As a matter of fact, Bob and Larry were the writers for Beast Wars so I know they are both very good writers. When I saw his name in the He-Man credits, I took note of it. He was one of 3 writers for "The Problem With Power" episode, which was good but did you know that he didn't write any other episode of the original He-Man?

    Robert Lamb is credited with writing 4 episodes of a 130 episode series, so his 3% doesn't contribute a whole lot to the Filmation MOTU series. Out of the 4 episodes Robert Lamb wrote, I really enjoyed "Into the Abyss" and "Not So Blind" but not the other two episodes. I don't see how his 1.5% of good stuff makes a huge difference here. Not to mention that these 4 episodes don't have any continuity with any other episodes and are nothing more than stand alone episodes, which is what most of the series was.

    Michael Straczynski wrote 8 Filmation episodes and the only one I like AND remember is the "Origin of the Sorceress" because it provides some backstory to a series that had ZERO for how Prince Adam first became He-Man. With the exception of the episode I like, I don't think the 7 others contribute to any sort of continuity or story arc.

    I'm not really interested in going over every name you can throw out there but IF there some major story arc that I missed or real continuity outside of Larry Ditillio's work and a few other episodes, point it out for me because I don't see it. As with any great story, essay, or thesis, there needs to be a beginning, a middle, and an ending. Filmation had none of these. MYP ended too soon but in 39 episodes, we had an origin story for the protagonist as well as his main adversary. We had nice origin episodes for characters like Two Bad and Odiphus(Stinkor). The writing in MYP was much smarter. Within its short life, MYP had 5 episodes written by Larry Ditillio including "The Price of Deceit" which is definitely one of the best episodes of MYP. Skeletor is written as a very vengeful and heartless character who is out to kill Evil Lyn. This was COMPLETELY absent with the caricature that was Filmation Skeletor.

    Filmation may be "far better than MYP" to someone like yourself and I can't changed your mind. But other than nostalgia, I don't see any objective evidence to justify Filmation's perceived superiority. I love and prefer the Filmation backgrounds as well as the music by Shuki Levy, but those two aspects don't contribute to the writing or lack thereof. The "Council of Evil" was a great season ending two part episode with that ended on a cliff hanger, something Filmation never had. I like some real fighting in a sword & sorcery show as well as some suspense. The "Council of Evil" had both, and for me, those two episodes plus the season two conclusion "The Last Stand" blow the entire Filmation He-Man series out of the water.
    You need to stop presuming that Fimation fans only like Filmation better because of nostalgia. It's the MYP elitists like you that keep trying to impose that on all Filmation fans. I've already explained why I find Filmation to be superior, but I'll do it again: better storytelling, better character designs, better animation, better backgrounds, better characterization, better music, better voice acting, actual heart. I could go on and on, but I won't because you and others will try to couch my opinion in nostalgia. Just because something is newer doesn't make it better. Besides, MYP is over a decade old. I can say that you like MYP only because of nostalgia. And I can use that same refute over and over when you talk about something that you like about MYP, because that's about all you can say to try to refute Filmation fans.
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    Just been watching Rise of the Snake men.

    I was wondering, apart from man at Arms creating Roboto, is there any reason why this could not be considered a prequel to the Filmation series?

    I write this without having seen the last ten eps of the 2002 series in a long time..

  8. #58
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    i watched the 200x cartoon on youtube and thought it was freaking awesome.. but i like the filmation better. the new one was to anime or whatever that crap is called. but it had some awesome new characters. i'm a classic guy.. i'm only in it for nostalgia, and accept whatever else comes are way as the 4hm design these to all fit seemlessly..

  9. #59
    The Man Called 'V' Shecky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trap-Jaw- View Post
    Just been watching Rise of the Snake men.

    I was wondering, apart from man at Arms creating Roboto, is there any reason why this could not be considered a prequel to the Filmation series?

    I write this without having seen the last ten eps of the 2002 series in a long time..
    Yes, per Jukka's post in a thread entitled '200x: A Filmation Prequel?'

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...=1#post2518842

    Regards,
    Victor P.

  10. #60
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancak View Post
    You need to stop presuming that Fimation fans only like Filmation better because of nostalgia. It's the MYP elitists like you that keep trying to impose that on all Filmation fans. I've already explained why I find Filmation to be superior, but I'll do it again: better storytelling, better character designs, better animation, better backgrounds, better characterization, better music, better voice acting, actual heart. I could go on and on, but I won't because you and others will try to couch my opinion in nostalgia. Just because something is newer doesn't make it better. Besides, MYP is over a decade old. I can say that you like MYP only because of nostalgia. And I can use that same refute over and over when you talk about something that you like about MYP, because that's about all you can say to try to refute Filmation fans.
    Please take note everyone, vancak has labeled me an "MYP elitists" and he is FLAT OUT WRONG!

    It's something new that I have never been called before, but it just proves my point. If someone like myself doesn't put Filmation first and foremost, and can acknowledge good things and bad about the sacred Lou Scheimer Filmation series, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE AN MYP ONLY GUY.

    Please take not vancak, I am not in the Filmation thread dissecting Filmation's shortcomings. I am here in the MYP section of the ORG defending MYP against Filmation fans who will probably never accept anything else, ever. If you don't like MYP or can't handle someone who grew up watching the show criticizing it, you can heap praise on the Filmation series in the Filmation section. I can also GUARANTEE you that I will not go into the Filmation thread and start imposing my belief that MYP was far better written than the Filmation series. And please stop making assumptions about me because you're 0-2 there. I wasn't even aware of MYP until about 2009, so nostalgia isn't even a factor for me in my preference for the MYP series.

    So in conclusion, I am not an "MYP elistists" nor am I a Filmation worshipper. I grew up with Filmation and have some nostalgia for the music, the backgrounds, and the voice of John Erwin, but I PREFER MYP for everything else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shecky View Post
    Yes, per Jukka's post in a thread entitled '200x: A Filmation Prequel?'

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...=1#post2518842

    Regards,
    Victor P.

    Interesting take by Jukka. With all of the origin stuff in MYP, I could how some fans would accept it that way. By the way, I'm looking forward to my Filmation figures.


    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Some people are never going to get over this just like SW the only sw films in their eyes are the first 3..Even though the guy that CREATED Star Wars made 3 more films...

    Conversations like these are ALWAYS going to be one sided because it does not make a valid arguement and certain people are not going to go over all the facts (or posts) and pick & choose what they want to defend instead of the whole picture and or story..Filmation was written for KIDS from a different time for different generations and at first when I heard about MYP I thought it would be meeh but it was superior in most ways. It's like buying your first car and never selling it even though it's costing you a fortune to keep up or still keeping calling your first girlfriend even though now she's married and has kids....
    You sound very rational Megalodon, and I have no interest in trying to change the minds of Filmation first fans. Anyone is welcome to count my post in the Filmation section. For the record, I have zero post in that section of the ORG at this time. My problem is Filmation fans coming into the MYP section and making blanket statements that Filmation was better at everything and then throwing a bunch of names at me including an ARTIST against my opinion that the WRITING in MYP was superior.
    Last edited by MasterCollector; September 15, 2013 at 02:47am.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCollector View Post
    Please take note everyone, vancak has labeled me an "MYP elitists" and he is FLAT OUT WRONG!

    It's something new that I have never been called before, but it just proves my point. If someone like myself doesn't put Filmation first and foremost, and can acknowledge good things and bad about the sacred Lou Scheimer Filmation series, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE AN MYP ONLY GUY.

    Please take not vancak, I am not in the Filmation thread dissecting Filmation's shortcomings. I am here in the MYP section of the ORG defending MYP against Filmation fans who will probably never accept anything else, ever. If you don't like MYP or can't handle someone who grew up watching the show criticizing it, you can heap praise on the Filmation series in the Filmation section. I can also GUARANTEE you that I will not go into the Filmation thread and start imposing my belief that MYP was far better written than the Filmation series. And please stop making assumptions about me because you're 0-2 there. I wasn't even aware of MYP until about 2009, so nostalgia isn't even a factor for me in my preference for the MYP series.

    So in conclusion, I am not an "MYP elistists" nor am I a Filmation worshipper. I grew up with Filmation and have some nostalgia for the music, the backgrounds, and the voice of John Erwin, but I PREFER MYP for everything else.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Interesting take by Jukka. With all of the origin stuff in MYP, I could how some fans would accept it that way. By the way, I'm looking forward to my Filmation figures.




    You sound very rational Megalodon, and I have no interest in trying to change the minds of Filmation first fans. Anyone is welcome to count my post in the Filmation section. For the record, I have zero post in that section of the ORG at this time. My problem is Filmation fans coming into the MYP section and making blanket statements that Filmation was better at everything and then throwing a bunch of names at me including an ARTIST against my opinion that the WRITING in MYP was superior.
    This thread was started by someone who wanted to talk about how they liked Filmation better. No one was trashing your beloved MYP. People were talking about why they liked Filmation better, and it didn't start to become an "Era War" til you came in and started labeling Filmation fans by saying that that only liked it better because of nostalgia. It was YOU who started the labeling and trashing Filmation with all the "cheap" comments. I'm fine with people liking MYP better-that's their right. I don't know why people would like it better, but I can accept it (heck, there were even some episodes that I thought were pretty good). It seems that YOU are the one who can't accept that people like Filmation better. I never labeled you a MYP ONLY guy (but many of your comments in this thread and others where the merits of Filmation vs. MYP were discussed seem to put you in the MYP elitist standing), and in no way am I a Filmation worshipper just because I like it better. Just like you felt you had to defend MYP, I'm defending Filmation.

    I've had my say, and I'm done with this thread as I'd rather stop fighting a meaningless battle. Good day.
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  12. #62
    Lightning League Leader kylun flac's Avatar
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    MYP had many moments that made me feel some real emotion. It really kick butt too.
    Its the show not tell aspect of MYP.
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  13. #63
    Artichokes aren't evil! MasterCollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylun flac View Post
    MYP had many moments that made me feel some real emotion. It really kick butt too.
    Its the show not tell aspect of MYP.
    For me, the "The Council of Evil" two part episode put the exclamation point on which series was better written. We had a REAL two part episode with nothing but continuity that ultimately ended in a suspenseful season ending cliffhanger. We NEVER got either with over 130 Filmation episodes.

    "The House of Shokoti" was the only two part He-Man episode and Shokoti wasn't in part one and Masque wasn't in part two, so although it's considered a two part episode, it doesn't feel as connected as it probably should have.
    "Evilseed with his MYP redesign dominated the poll pulling ahead with a massive lead."

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