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Thread: Shame the masters were destroyed for she-ra and he-man means NO HD bluray :/

  1. #1
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    Shame the masters were destroyed for she-ra and he-man means NO HD bluray :/

    Shame the masters were destroyed for she-ra and he-man means NO HD bluray :/



    Im pretty miffed I really want she-ra transferred to blu-ray HD and to be cleaned up, but before making the dvds they decided to for some stupid reason destroy the Mater versions of both he-man and she-ra when they had transferred them to digital for dvd.

    This means its impossible to have a true blu-ray hd version now

    this is why those german blu-rays of he-man and she-ra look horrid because they are literally just the dvd eps on blu-ray discs


    pfft

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    That's incredibly short sighted. I can't even believe it.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
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    its true unfortionatly, I heard it ages ago, and I contacted the rights holders to the cartoons and they confirmed it and he-man.org said it was true too when I messaged them

    Though they were 100% wrong with what else they said, they said even with the masters they would not help make the cartoon better on bluray..clearly they do not know anything about what goes on when you clean something up for blu-ray

    for a start from the masters you make a 1080p res digital version for the blu-ray then you clean it all up, colour alterations get rid of artifacts etc

    with them having only the low res for the dvds theres not a lot you can do and were stuck with them..better than nothing I know but as a fan Im miffed they would get rid

    so we wont ever get proper blu-rays now, and just have what they did in Germany and shove the dvd quality eps on a bluray disc :/

  4. #4
    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    It's never really been confirmed 100% that prints are destroyed.
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  5. #5
    Animator Zentron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbot View Post
    It's never really been confirmed 100% that prints are destroyed.
    I certainly hope they haven't been destroyed... other than being a really stupid idea, it doesn't make any financial sense.

  6. #6
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Well, at this point, maybe someone out there wants to start a fan project to make HD (4k?) versions of the episodes. It would be an immense amount of work, and require redrawing the backgrounds and all the animations frame by frame, but it would be amazing to see.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things aren’t absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I don’t collect toys to be miserable. So I’d rather think about the things that do excite me
    http://thefwoosh.com/2014/06/masters...beyond-vintage

  7. #7
    Animator Zentron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    Well, at this point, maybe someone out there wants to start a fan project to make HD (4k?) versions of the episodes. It would be an immense amount of work, and require redrawing the backgrounds and all the animations frame by frame, but it would be amazing to see.
    They'd have to be mad to try attempt such a feat, often having to draw as many as 6 frames per second... it'd take ages! Still, top marks to them for trying

  8. #8
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentron View Post
    I certainly hope they haven't been destroyed... other than being a really stupid idea, it doesn't make any financial sense.
    I don't think that they've been destroyed, but I also don't think we're going to find them anytime soon. It doesn't seem to be on anyone's list of priorities.
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    The REAL Mo-Larr yodafreakmaster's Avatar
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    I've heard this somewhere before and it is a terrible thing!!! I would LOVE blu-ray versions of He-Man and She-Ra!!!!

  10. #10
    Refreshing Midwinter's Avatar
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    BCI Guy had said that when he was working on the DVD releases that he had been told that when Hallmark transferred the masters to digital they destroyed all the masters.

    I know that some guys who researched the old Star Trek animated series done by Filmation had found that not only were the show masters destroyed by Hallmark, but also all the soundtracks that were stored for the shows. So it is completely possible that there were recordings of the He-Man and She-Ra soundtracks without edits that are now gone forever.

    There is also reports that the Laurel and Hardy original masters were barely saved from being destroyed by Hallmark. Hallmark destroyed all of their masters to save some money on storage costs. It just happens that there was a devoted Laurel and Hardy fan that was able to get a hold of those masters and have them stored at UCLA.

    Sadly - any hope of finding these masters I believe is a false hope. There are too many puzzle pieces that the picture starts to become clear that these masters are gone forever.
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  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    BCI Guy had said that when he was working on the DVD releases that he had been told that when Hallmark transferred the masters to digital they destroyed all the masters.

    I know that some guys who researched the old Star Trek animated series done by Filmation had found that not only were the show masters destroyed by Hallmark, but also all the soundtracks that were stored for the shows. So it is completely possible that there were recordings of the He-Man and She-Ra soundtracks without edits that are now gone forever.

    There is also reports that the Laurel and Hardy original masters were barely saved from being destroyed by Hallmark. Hallmark destroyed all of their masters to save some money on storage costs. It just happens that there was a devoted Laurel and Hardy fan that was able to get a hold of those masters and have them stored at UCLA.

    Sadly - any hope of finding these masters I believe is a false hope. There are too many puzzle pieces that the picture starts to become clear that these masters are gone forever.
    Hallmark are horrible butchers and destroyers of celluloid history. One example:

    For years the only copy of "A Killer In the Family" (a 1983 Robert Mitchum network TV movie) was Hallmark's master. They received the film in the early 90's and deemed it too violent to be shown uncut on contemporary (cable!) television, so they edited it. Since Hallmark didn't have home video reproduction rights, they destroyed the original negative and their new digital master, the edited one, became the only one thought to exist, since it was figured that the film would only ever be screened on Hallmark television. There was no "need" for the original master, so it was tossed out.

    Flash forward to 2010 and someone came forth with a recorded VHS copy of the original 1983 television airing of the film and finally, Warner had an uncut copy to work from and ended up making a new master.

    I know this has nothing to do with MOTU but it is a fine example of how a master can be destroyed, just like the early Beatles and Elvis recordings where Capital and RCA destroyed the original mono acetates to some songs and made their reverb-drenched "reprocessed stereo" versions the "new" masters.

    But there's always a light at the end of the tunnel- in every one of these examples a private collector came forward with an original or second-gen master and history was re-preserved.
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  12. #12
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    Sounds a lot like what Doctor Who fans have had to suffer through. The BBC destroyed most
    of the masters of the first few seasons of Doctor Who from the 60's and those episodes are
    pretty much gone for good.

    A few have been found over the years that got sent to various TV stations,ect. but it's to the point
    that the missing episodes from some of the 4 to 6 part serials have been animated to fill the gap between
    the surviving live action episodes. The original audio from the radio broadcasts did still exist and was added
    to the animations to be able to see the serials in full. So be happy that all the episodes of He-Man & She-Ra
    can at least be seen as there are other iconic shows that are gone forever.

  13. #13
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nintendo2600 View Post
    Sounds a lot like what Doctor Who fans have had to suffer through. The BBC destroyed most
    of the masters of the first few seasons of Doctor Who from the 60's and those episodes are
    pretty much gone for good.

    A few have been found over the years that got sent to various TV stations,ect. but it's to the point
    that the missing episodes from some of the 4 to 6 part serials have been animated to fill the gap between
    the surviving live action episodes. The original audio from the radio broadcasts did still exist and was added
    to the animations to be able to see the serials in full. So be happy that all the episodes of He-Man & She-Ra
    can at least be seen as there are other iconic shows that are gone forever.
    Yes, the same thing happened with Dark Shadows. Over the years, almost every episode has been found except for one. A fan came forward with an audio cassette recording of the episode that he made by holding a tape recorder next to his TV's speaker in 1968. They animated the rest of the episode with pictures and stills from various surviving episodes.

    It's kind of like The Diamond Ray of Disappearance from the original MOTU set. (I think I'm thinking of the correct episode... correct me if I'm wrong.) BCI could only release the footage that was given to them and the DRoD episode was missing footage. Although the missing footage was widely available from other sources, they weren't allowed to include it because they were only allowed to release what was given to them, and the missing footage wasn't part of the package.

    A new deal has to be struck with a new company that can produce new masters for Blu-Ray. And part of the deal should be to use any existing footage (such as the missing bits of DRoD) even if a licensing deal has to be struck with whomever holds the rights to that particular episode. Me, personally, I'm fine with the DVD quality but I know there's hardcore fans of the show who want upscaled resolution, even if it's artificial.

    Let's face it, not enough money was put into these sets. Even though we got bonus material and beautiful box art, the project was treated like a red-headed stepchild. This show has enough fans to warrant a "Simpsons"-like quality set, even if it means releasing only one or two discs at a time instead of one big batch.
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  14. #14
    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    I know that some guys who researched the old Star Trek animated series done by Filmation had found that not only were the show masters destroyed by Hallmark, but also all the soundtracks that were stored for the shows. So it is completely possible that there were recordings of the He-Man and She-Ra soundtracks without edits that are now gone forever.
    Here's a problem with that: It's BS.
    Paramount has Star Trek TAS film prints which they remastered and from which they've created DVD masters. They also have all the audio elements which enabled them to make 5.1 audio tracks.

    (Regarding the TAS soundtrack: Keep in mind that the music has been used in other Filmation shows which Paramount doesn't own. To release the music, they would have to go through legal hassle with Warner Brothers and Classic Media)
    Last edited by Grimbot; March 20, 2014 at 09:50pm.
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    Heroic Warrior FutureRetro's Avatar
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    What were the Filmation shows mastered to anyway? Did they actually print film for masters or was it all finished and mastered to 2", 1", or some other form of analog tape? If it was mastered to analog tape, its possible the transfers to digital tape would be the best transfer at the time and the analog stuff would be deteriorating. If film masters existed and were destroyed that would be a huge mistake and definitely very short sighted as stated above.

  16. #16
    Heroic Warrior Torak's Avatar
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    As noted, Hallmark is infamous for not caring.

    The odds of a private collector have the negative in the case of a TV show is almost slim and none.

  17. #17
    Scrolls Reviewer Jukka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    Let's face it, not enough money was put into these sets. Even though we got bonus material and beautiful box art, the project was treated like a red-headed stepchild. This show has enough fans to warrant a "Simpsons"-like quality set, even if it means releasing only one or two discs at a time instead of one big batch.
    I reckon it's a bit unfair to compare "The Simpsons" to "He-Man".

    Naturally you would think He-Man is an 80s product. So how does the DVDs compare with maybe other 80s animated series on DVD?

    Personally I've seen lot of other 80s animated shows (and even 90s animated) that were released on DVD. Where they simply use
    -existing stock art for cover (or art that looks like a temp did it)
    -"special features" include a trailer of the DVD company's other stuff

    and that's it
    no booklets, no extra info or interviews AND they may not release entire series but leave it mid-way because
    the sales numbers drop.

    But BCI put their best foot forward. You even mentioned it yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    It's kind of like The Diamond Ray of Disappearance from the original MOTU set. (I think I'm thinking of the correct episode... correct me if I'm wrong.) BCI could only release the footage that was given to them and the DRoD episode was missing footage. Although the missing footage was widely available from other sources, they weren't allowed to include it because they were only allowed to release what was given to them, and the missing footage wasn't part of the package.
    BCI knew there was an issue of missing footage. They had clean VHS-copies where they could have put the missing scene into the 'Special Features' and wanted to.
    But legally they couldn't.
    ANY OTHER studio putting out an 80s animation on DVD would not have even bothered to look for missing footage or try their best to get it included. BCI did try. But it was ER's decision in the matter.

    So in that regard, what was done for He-Man and She-Ra was astounding.

    BCI *KNEW* from the get-go, that putting all 130 of He-Man episodes would be A LOT to release and the reality is that the DVD-box sales will drop after the first one. BCI Guy shared the numbers afterwards too.
    (Filmation He-Man sales dropped steadily with each release as did She-Ra's too)

    But still,
    -they made complete new box-art by a professional artist with lot of care to emulate the cartoon-style
    -every DVD disc has new art produced on it, not stock footage or model-images
    -they produced a 16-part documentary(!) where they had extensive amount of people (not just 1-3)
    -audio commentaries
    -Scripts as PDF-files in special features
    -Unseen Trivia information
    -complete bio-texts written for all main characters
    -included complete new Art Cards from Professionals in the Comic/Animation Industry (including guys like Alex Ross, Bruce Timm, Adam Hughes, etc. Now THAT is something one could consider putting TOO much effort into the DVD release)
    -they had a grand launch with an additional "10 best episodes" at SDCC
    -were on schedule with DVD box releases (NO half-year delays. NO changes to DVD cover format or numbering-system, etc)

    So no. I don't personally agree that the BCI Filmation He-Man/She-Ra DVD release "was treated like a red-headed stepchild".

  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    I reckon it's a bit unfair to compare "The Simpsons" to "He-Man".

    Naturally you would think He-Man is an 80s product. So how does the DVDs compare with maybe other 80s animated series on DVD?

    Personally I've seen lot of other 80s animated shows (and even 90s animated) that were released on DVD. Where they simply use
    -existing stock art for cover (or art that looks like a temp did it)
    -"special features" include a trailer of the DVD company's other stuff

    and that's it
    no booklets, no extra info or interviews AND they may not release entire series but leave it mid-way because
    the sales numbers drop.

    But BCI put their best foot forward. You even mentioned it yourself.



    BCI knew there was an issue of missing footage. They had clean VHS-copies where they could have put the missing scene into the 'Special Features' and wanted to.
    But legally they couldn't.
    ANY OTHER studio putting out an 80s animation on DVD would not have even bothered to look for missing footage or try their best to get it included. BCI did try. But it was ER's decision in the matter.

    So in that regard, what was done for He-Man and She-Ra was astounding.

    BCI *KNEW* from the get-go, that putting all 130 of He-Man episodes would be A LOT to release and the reality is that the DVD-box sales will drop after the first one. BCI Guy shared the numbers afterwards too.
    (Filmation He-Man sales dropped steadily with each release as did She-Ra's too)

    But still,
    -they made complete new box-art by a professional artist with lot of care to emulate the cartoon-style
    -every DVD disc has new art produced on it, not stock footage or model-images
    -they produced a 16-part documentary(!) where they had extensive amount of people (not just 1-3)
    -audio commentaries
    -Scripts as PDF-files in special features
    -Unseen Trivia information
    -complete bio-texts written for all main characters
    -included complete new Art Cards from Professionals in the Comic/Animation Industry (including guys like Alex Ross, Bruce Timm, Adam Hughes, etc. Now THAT is something one could consider putting TOO much effort into the DVD release)
    -they had a grand launch with an additional "10 best episodes" at SDCC
    -were on schedule with DVD box releases (NO half-year delays. NO changes to DVD cover format or numbering-system, etc)

    So no. I don't personally agree that the BCI Filmation He-Man/She-Ra DVD release "was treated like a red-headed stepchild".
    You've proved my point. If this was a Simpsons boxed set, the missing footage would have been included in there. I've never blamed BCI, I said the same exact thing you did.

    So yeah, that does make it feel a little cut-rate to me. I mean, no offense to the guys that dug the set and thought the admittedly wonderful art cards made up for missing footage, but I'd rather have a "complete" complete set.
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