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Thread: Filmation Hordak and Imp revealed at Matty

  1. #526
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    I liked Spector. I liked Vykron (barring the space armor-that-simply-will-not-connect from hell). I liked Standor. Mo-Larr, too. I'm perfectly fine with King He-Man and Nepthu. I even like the Unnamed One (though I'm still a bit iffy on how well he lived up to the advertising).

    This is legitimately the first time I've just had to shake my head and wonder what went so very wrong here on so many levels.
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  2. #527
    Heroic Warrior Mern-Ra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigonnoodle View Post
    OK, OK, Ratchet and Ironhide SUCKED as toys...no heads! Still, I don't need to spend $25 or more per Filmation version of He-man, Skeletor, Hordak, Trap Jaw, Tung Lashor, etc, etc. etc...We got He-Man,Skeletor, Hordak, Trap Jaw, et al...same goes for mini comic version of Trap Jaw, Why would anyone actually consider that?
    Because we either like multiple versisions of certain characters or prefer one look over another; as others have stated, I'm not sure how else to say it. Let me ask you this: have you ever bought more than one toy of any character? If you have, for example, bought more than one Superman figure, your answer to why you did that will probably be pretty much the same as why I still want a Filmation Mer-Man head in this line.
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  3. #528
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    Remember when ToyGuru said there is ONE other figure that is "questionable" or something to that affect....

    I wonder if this SDCC Hordak is that figure. That would mean THEY knew the entire time that this would **** off fans but due to costs had to make it cheap.
    I believe he was referring to UNO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    I believe he was referring to UNO
    He may have been. I asked this question during a Q&A last month and the reply was that they would reveal which figure Scott was refering to at the end of the year, so who knows maybe we have yet to see them. I half think we will all know at SDCC which figure he meant...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackhart1975 View Post
    If anyone is planning on selling Imp please let me know. This is a easy miss for
    I probaly,could sell him, i made a clay imp quite a while back. Whos just the correct size. So, i can probaly sell imp for like, 2 to 4$

  6. #531
    Heroic Warrior Dayvid's Avatar
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    Laptop issues have caused me to be late to this.. but YAY!

    Granted, i would have preferred more of a FILMATION style.. And he looks similar to the custom i already have.. but I ain't complaining!

    I wish I could go and pick some up! But it's ok, i'll admire the pics until i find one

  7. #532
    Heroic Italian Warrior PaoloKr's Avatar
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    I'm wondering what happens now with Buzz Saw Hordak. Toyguru said multiple times that every vintage variants will be part of MOTUC line, so next year will see another Hordak? The fifth one, by the way!
    Maybe they can realease a FILMATION head with this variant.
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  8. #533
    Heroic Warrior Ianm1225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos*Major View Post
    I'm more upset about Imp.
    I think he looks horrible...
    I could justify the purchase for Imp but he looks...really off. I don't get it. He's too thin in the face. Too small. He should be around Lookee's size.
    I'm really disappointed in Imp.
    I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I don't know what possessed them to make him so tiny. He's like something you'd get out of a gumball machine or a Cracker Jack box!
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  9. #534
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaoloKr View Post
    I'm wondering what happens now with Buzz Saw Hordak. Toyguru said multiple times that every vintage variants will be part of MOTUC line, so next year will see another Hordak? The fifth one, by the way!
    Maybe they can realease a FILMATION head with this variant.
    That would be ideal (well, at least as close to ideal as it gets given the current situation). If they are going to get to all vintage variants, meaning that we'll get another Hordak anyway (one that, Buzz Saw feature aside, didn't look much different than the standard Hordak in the vintage line), they should at least include the Filmation head that we can then use on this figure.
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  10. #535
    Heroic Italian Warrior PaoloKr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos*Major View Post
    He should be around Lookee's size.
    Not really, in the vintage show Loo-Kee is clearly bigger than Imp.


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  11. #536
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    Everyone keeps talking about a new Filmation head. Honestly, I would've overlooked the existing head if they had bothered to paint in the black lines around his mouth. Instead, Mattel isn't even bothering to do that much. I'm much more upset about the lack of new chest armor and bone headdress. I came into this thread hoping TG would announce the press image is just a rough prototype; instead I find that he's serious about selling this garbage. I wanted a Filmation Hordak so badly, and now his slot in the line is taken by this overpriced repaint.
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  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigonnoodle View Post
    OK, OK, Ratchet and Ironhide SUCKED as toys...no heads! Still, I don't need to spend $25 or more per Filmation version of He-man, Skeletor, Hordak, Trap Jaw, Tung Lashor, etc, etc. etc...We got He-Man,Skeletor, Hordak, Trap Jaw, et al...same goes for mini comic version of Trap Jaw, Why would anyone actually consider that?
    you just don't get it man....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    This all the way. I could have told you we weren't getting a new head for Filmation Hordak, Scott flat out said so once. I wasn't expecting a new head, but for a SDCC item, I would at least expect a piece count similar to Marlena or Vykron. Two swappable arms, new attachments, more Imp transformations, THAT is what I want from a Filmation Hordak. If this were a Club Eternia item, I could at least understand that they needed to save on tooling for other figures, but SDCC is a separate budget, and it wasn't well spent. I hate to say it, but this is the first figure that I honestly feel is a waste of a slot.
    Scott said they chose not to include a new head, but apparently they had the budget for it, they just wanted to be cheap *****....the head is iconic and that is what truly makes Filmation Hordak much more than a Hordak in a new oufit....this piece of flop looks like Hordak just changed his pjs....and painted his face white.
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  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword-of-Grayskull View Post
    Everyone keeps talking about a new Filmation head. Honestly, I would've overlooked the existing head if they had bothered to paint in the black lines around his mouth. Instead, Mattel isn't even bothering to do that much.
    See, this is where I disagree to an extent. Whether using the existing sculpt or if we got a new sculpt, expecting black lines on his face is a logical fallacy in my opinion.

    While the Filmation and vintage heads had two very different takes on roughly the same source design, certain details are similar. To me the black lines on his face in the cartoon are there to simply give detail where none would otherwise would be in flat 2D animated form. For an action figure, I would expect that to be handled by the sculpting.

    The pictures below will help illustrate my point.
    -The first pic is Hordak from the 80s She-Ra cartoon.
    -The second is Hordak from the MYP cartoon (which was more of an update at the time of the vintage figure look)
    -The third pic is of MOTUC Hordak
    -The fourth pic is of the 200X Hordak staction and vintage figure.

    Look at the MYP/200X cartoon image, and then look at all of the versions of Hordak in figure form in those last two pictures. The cartoon uses black lines to illustrate detail that are simply sculpted on those various figure forms. The 'bumps' on his head, the 'fin' in the middle of his head, the detail in his ears and the 'gray' parts of his head. Those are represented by black lines in the cartoon, but all of the figures have these as sculpted detail.

    I would expect the same of a Filmation variant of Hordak, whether using the new head or the existing head. If a new head were being made, I would expect, for example, the 3 curved lines on either side of his nose to be sculpted detail, not actually black painted lines. The equivalent detail on the existing figures (which is in the gray colored area of his face on either side of his nose) have similar, but more "organic" looking detailing, and it is sculpted, not painted on with lines. I would actually probably be kind of annoyed if everything was outlined in black like that on a sculpted figure.

    Now, yes, in an earlier post a couple or so pages back, I did point out some changes that I think would make the upcoming figure look better that aren't technically Filmation accurate, but would make for a more ascetically pleasing (IMO) figure. But in terms of being as "Filmation accurate" as possible using the existing sculpt, while also being true to the general difference between between animation and sculpted figures, technically the figure that we are getting is more accurate.







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  14. #539
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    While I see what your saying, you are kind of ignoring the fact that the original design (toy & toon) was Co-designed by both Filmation and Mattel back in 1984, so who is interpreting what exactly is a bit of a mystery isn't it? How that applies on a MOTUC style...IDK if I can speak to that since I don't design action figures for a living.

    Artistic license and different styles of interpretations are one of the reasons DC Collectables is able to make so many Batman figures. I wish MOTU was kinda like that. A repaint is a repaint, but we are obviously talking about different styles being rendered in 3D sculpts. A Jim Lee Batman is not a Frank Miller Batman. You can't paint a Michale Keaton Batman in Batman 66 colors and call it "Adam West Batman" because that would be inaccurate. He would at LEAST need an Adam West Head



    As to your point about painted lines vs sculpted details I agree with a lot of that, however i believe that SOME of that would be achieved via pants wash to bring out the sculpted detail. Still need a filmation head though. no getting around that. No amount of paint is going to smooth his forehead or make his jaw more square.
    Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; May 2, 2014 at 11:35am.
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  15. #540
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    While I see what your saying, you are kind of ignoring the fact that the original design (toy & toon) was Co-designed by both Filmation and Mattel back in 1984, so who is interpreting what exactly is a bit of a mystery isn't it? How that applies on a MOTUC style...IDK if I can speak to that since I don't design action figures for a living.

    Artistic license and different styles of interpretations are one of the reasons DC Collectables is able to make so many Batman figures. I wish MOTU was kinda like that. A repaint is a repaint, but we are obviously talking about different styles being rendered in 3D sculpts. A Jim Lee Batman is not a Frank Miller Batman. You can't paint a Michale Keaton Batman in Batman 66 colors and call it "Adam West Batman" because that would be inaccurate. He would at LEAST need an Adam West Head

    Is this in reply to my post? I'm just checking, because if it is, it's like we are having two different conversations here.

    I'm not arguing against the need for a newly sculpted Filmation head (I would very, very much like to have one). What I'm arguing against is ANY head (whether it be the current, existing head sculpt or a brand new Filmation head sculpt) to require "black lines" to actually be painted on the face for it to be "Filmation accurate." My point is that most of the black lines on his face would be sculpted detail on the figure, just as the case is why the MYP cartoon Hordak compared to the Staction and MOTUC Hordak.

    If your post wasn't in reply to mine, then nevermind!
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  16. #541
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    yes and no. WE are mostly agreeing after all. Consider it a continuation. I was punctuating your point about the need for a Filmation head hence the batman analogy while insinuating the need for expertize knowledge of the source material during the design process required for making modern collectable toys. I guess I was having two different conversations with my self huh?


    I edited that post (hit submit too soon...) so check it again about my point in regards to paint VS lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOfTeela View Post
    I get the whole "people should be rewarded for spending thousands of dollars to go stand in line" yadda yadda, but as you said - we do a heck of a lot more to contribute to this line as subscribers than just about any of the folks who will be standing in line to buy this, the majority of whom are scalpers who simply get in every line and buy every exclusive in max quantities to resell. The joy of SDCC should be in attending the events and the community, but it's not enough of a reward for some folks - which is one of the many reasons the whole thing has gone so downhill and is really largely a "buying event" these days.
    Agreed. It stopped being fun LONG time ago.2009 was it for me...Industry swooped in and ruined it. Greed ruins everything.
    Last edited by LORD FALLEN ELDOR; May 2, 2014 at 12:00pm.
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  17. #542
    Heroic Razor-Edged Weapon Sword-of-Grayskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    See, this is where I disagree to an extent. Whether using the existing sculpt or if we got a new sculpt, expecting black lines on his face is a logical fallacy in my opinion.

    While the Filmation and vintage heads had two very different takes on roughly the same source design, certain details are similar. To me the black lines on his face in the cartoon are there to simply give detail where none would otherwise would be in flat 2D animated form. For an action figure, I would expect that to be handled by the sculpting.

    The pictures below will help illustrate my point.
    -The first pic is Hordak from the 80s She-Ra cartoon.
    -The second is Hordak from the MYP cartoon (which was more of an update at the time of the vintage figure look)
    -The third pic is of MOTUC Hordak
    -The fourth pic is of the 200X Hordak staction and vintage figure.

    Look at the MYP/200X cartoon image, and then look at all of the versions of Hordak in figure form in those last two pictures. The cartoon uses black lines to illustrate detail that are simply sculpted on those various figure forms. The 'bumps' on his head, the 'fin' in the middle of his head, the detail in his ears and the 'gray' parts of his head. Those are represented by black lines in the cartoon, but all of the figures have these as sculpted detail.

    I would expect the same of a Filmation variant of Hordak, whether using the new head or the existing head. If a new head were being made, I would expect, for example, the 3 curved lines on either side of his nose to be sculpted detail, not actually black painted lines. The equivalent detail on the existing figures (which is in the gray colored area of his face on either side of his nose) have similar, but more "organic" looking detailing, and it is sculpted, not painted on with lines. I would actually probably be kind of annoyed if everything was outlined in black like that on a sculpted figure.

    Now, yes, in an earlier post a couple or so pages back, I did point out some changes that I think would make the upcoming figure look better that aren't technically Filmation accurate, but would make for a more ascetically pleasing (IMO) figure. But in terms of being as "Filmation accurate" as possible using the existing sculpt, while also being true to the general difference between between animation and sculpted figures, technically the figure that we are getting is more accurate.

    http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps390f7127.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7vVOd-k6RY...mike-young.jpg

    http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_hordak_3.jpg

    http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...New/Hordak.jpg
    I hear what you're saying, and you're right in that it's perfectly logical to presume the lines in the Filmation animation were meant to represent sculpted ridges. However, I've seen a lot of Filmation Hordak repaints over the years, and the ones that seemed more accurate (at least to me) were the ones that painted in the lines as a kind of blackwash or panel lining (like many gunpla builders do when painting their Gundam models). Perhaps it's because the lines were so heavy in the cartoon that it gave the effect of dark shadows around those three-dimensional ridges, and the only way to capture that on a toy is to use darkwashing/brushpainting/panel lining (whatever word you want to use). It still wouldn't be perfect - only a new head sculpt could - but at least it would look better.
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  18. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianm1225 View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I don't know what possessed them to make him so tiny. He's like something you'd get out of a gumball machine or a Cracker Jack box!
    He looks like a Squinky.

  19. #544
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    So, anyone seen this recent reponse from Toy Guru on the MattyCollector forum?

    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5681027317/m/3341047868

    Very interesting stuff as it goes into great detail (and I do mean like a huge page worth) about why the (what is now being called) Etheria Invasion Hordak did not include a more Filmation accurate head. A head he is calling a more "cyborg" looking version. I actually buy into his point about wanting to keep a unified look for the Classics Hordak figures, including simply doing a repaint of the existing Hordak head rather than changing the style. Had they asked fans about this ahead of time we could have told you Scott - grumble, mumble- but whatever.

    Ultimately, as each day goes by more and more I get over the idea of feeling like Mattel shafted us with this exclusive by simply throwing a repaint at us and saying here, enjoy. As I give Scott's responses the smell test they seem legit and I can buy into the decision making process (if it's true) as simply mis-gauging what fans truly wanted from this release.
    Last edited by Stygian360; May 2, 2014 at 01:26pm.
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    Heroic Warrior whbinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    What I'm trying to tell you is not everyone holds the original versions as their personal favorites. Some fans might like Filmation Randor. Others might dig the original toy version. Yet others might dig the 200X/MYP version. Still others might prefer him as the elderly king from Pre-Filmation.

    Fans have their preferences. Others would want the option of variety. Mini-comic Trap Jaw is great for Pre-Filmation fans or people who simply like Texiera Trap Jaw the best.
    Well, I can see both sides of this. On one hand, it's nice for folks to have their definitive versions of their favorite characters. On the other hand, it's not really feasible to have SKU's for every person's preference. I think the thing in this case is.... sure some people would love to have 200x Marlena as their definitive Marlena or the live action movie Man At Arms. I'd love if they could get it, but I understand why not. But Filmation Hordak is a special case where a huge percentage of fans view him as the definitive version. Not me, actually. The toy is Hordak in my mind, but I certaliny understand.

    I also absolutely understand that a super-true Filmation Hordak would not match the aesthetics of the MOTUC brand. But Filmation Hordak "could be put through the classicizer and still be Filmation Hordak. Mantenna is I think the best example of this, the MOTUC Mantenna clearly looks at home in the MOTUC lineup, but is very recognizable as the character from the cartoon. Hordak could be done the same way.

  21. #546
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whbinder View Post
    the MOTUC Mantenna clearly looks at home in the MOTUC lineup, but is very recognizable as the character from the cartoon. Hordak could be done the same way.
    Good point this ---^ But at this point any discussion about what could have been feels like an academic exercise and a frustrating one at that.
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  22. #547
    Heroic Hero Grayskull's Heir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    So, anyone seen this recent reponse from Toy Guru on the MattyCollector forum?

    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5681027317/m/3341047868
    Yeah and this is my favourite part from his post:
    Creating these self generated rules in each of our heads is not benificial and more often leads to disapointment.
    Unfortunately, he doesn't refer to the "rules" he keeps mentioning about what they can and can't do, but he refers to the rules fans make up about what an SDCC exclusive should and should not be...
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  23. #548
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
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    Scotts excuse about wanting the head to be aesthetically cohesive with the rest of the line is utter rubbish. He seems to make up rules as he goes along to excuse any mistake he makes. How come we got a cartoony Marzo head, a 200x cartoon Whiplash head, an alcala Skeletor head, 200X Evil Lynn head etc? Is a 'classicized' Alcala Skeletor head can look exactly like the Alcala design in the comics, why can't a filmation Hordak head look like the actual cartoon head? Heck you could even explain it away as Hordak was injured and added cybernetics to himself in the way NA Skeletor did.
    I have never criticized Scott before as I know he can't control everything that happens to the classics toys but in this case with the bull spit excuse he has given I am really disappointed. I'd have more respect if he just said they didn't have the budget for a proper head.

  24. #549
    Heroic Razor-Edged Weapon Sword-of-Grayskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whbinder View Post
    I also absolutely understand that a super-true Filmation Hordak would not match the aesthetics of the MOTUC brand. But Filmation Hordak "could be put through the classicizer and still be Filmation Hordak. Mantenna is I think the best example of this, the MOTUC Mantenna clearly looks at home in the MOTUC lineup, but is very recognizable as the character from the cartoon. Hordak could be done the same way.
    You know another Filmation character who was put through the classicizer and still stayed 100% Filmation? This fine lady, who for many of us is one of the favorites in the line:

    adora3.jpg
    (credit to Motufigures.com)

    Scott's argument is invalid.

    And by the way, none of his remarks are even attempting to excuse the lack of new, Filmation-accurate chest armor and bony head dress.
    Last edited by Sword-of-Grayskull; May 2, 2014 at 02:07pm.
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  25. #550
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    Yeah and this is my favourite part from his post:

    Unfortunately, he doesn't refer to the "rules" he keeps mentioning about what they can and can't do, but he refers to the rules fans make up about what an SDCC exclusive should and should not be...
    I like how he invoked the "one dude" defense by linking to the person posting that they like the figure.

    Yeah, a few others said complimentary things (and even I think the figure is "salvageable" with a little customization). But still, the response is OVERWHELMINGLY negative, with even some of Scott's hardest defenders finding his defense of this head baffling.

    I'm sure that there are some people out there who liked the movie "Batman & Robin," it doesn't change what the larger consensus on that movie is.
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