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Thread: Gwildor Arrival

  1. #26
    Ancient One zodak74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Yes.

    Put him next to Madame Razz, or Orko, or even King Randor or Wun-Dar...

    He's expertly sculpted, but he looks like a figure from another line. . I still love him, and highly respect the sculptor... But it's a case of him needing a little less detail (more like the vintage figure, and not like the movie) and many others needing more.

    Sy-Klone, for example, does not even look like he's from the same line as Gwildor

    As the line winds down, I can step back see where a lot of mistakes have been made. There characters have pulled from across all media representation of MOTU, NA & PoP. That is 100% to be applauded. The problem with this line lies with the hardcore fact that they have failed in making all these various sources of the characters look as if they fit into one, uniform toyline. Going forward in the future, with whatever scale or sculpt Mattel decides to go with for MOTU toys, I want to see Sy-Klone, Gwildor, Starla, Teela, Count Marzo, Light Hope, Madam Razz, Orko, and He-Man all look like they are cut from the same cloth... enjoying the same level of detail in the sculpts, paint apps, articulation, etc.
    Classics has the feel that things were changed or tweaked as they went along, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. Normally I'd be all about that, but this- for me- was supposed to be the be all and end all of He-Man & She-Ra toylines and the feeling I'm left with as I look at everything we've gotten is... it's a little bit too all over the place in terms of design, sculpt, and most importantly- QUALITY. But that's just my personal critique. I still love 'em, but I do wish a uniform rule was ironed out from the beginning and sort of stuck with over the years, if that makes sense.

  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior wayne-klops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodster6 View Post
    Gwildor looks amazing! Can't wait to get him.
    I'm a big fan of aesthetic diversity in the line. Makes it seem more or a real, expansive universe with different looking characters and races.

    Gwildor fits in the line as well as Mantenna does.
    Same here. Diversity is the spice of life after all! In real life we see people dress differently but are still friends, colleagues, etc. Same can happen on Eternia and Etheria as far as I'm concerned.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior Ibentmyman-thing's Avatar
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    I've always felt Tommy Lee Jones' face is over-detailed.
    Motu short short stories.

    Motu Mini-comic

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  4. #29
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    As someone who has no attachment to Gwildor as previously said, after having this lifelike version of him, I would never settle for a lesser version of him with less detail. I can't ever fault them for giving us the best possible version of the source material. I don't think a 200x version of Orko would look any better next to him unless they sculpted some imaginary live action version of Orko we've never seen.

    Seriously, this is so lifelike in the eyes it's almost creepy.

  5. #30
    She-Ra: Never Forget! RockinHard's Avatar
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    I think he fits into the line just fine.

  6. #31
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retcon View Post
    And again I say this supposed "classicizer machine" is more of the usual hogwash.

    They share absolutely no aesthetic stylings. If you didn't know better - you'd think they were from completely different lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawbridge View Post
    Yeah, this is happening with more and more figures.

    It's mainly when they have a lot of clothing. So maybe Gwildor has a very basic imaginary body, and they just detailed everything else.

    No excuse for his face though.

    It's also a figure not a lot of people where excited for, so maybe they over detailed him in that regard? If people think he looks cool, sometimes that's enough?

    Had the opposite effect for me on Blade though. I didn't like Blade that much to begin with, but seeing him over detailed just removed any place he had on a display shelf. Looks odd.

    Preternia however is a pretty sparse shelf, and I like Gwildor (the old figure, reminds me of a AD&D type inclusion) enough anyways.

    Still, looks like a movie release type figure, which I generally dislike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Reading through that thread and especially looking at the pictures i have to agree with almost everyone.

    His sculpt is amazing, more detailed than anything we have seen before and seeing him with Eldor it΄s okay but putting He-Man or Orko beside him, he makes them look bad.

    I don΄t like the character never have and this figure as great as it looks does΄t help me. I admire the details, his clothes look amazing his face and hair is spectacular sculpted and than i look at Madame Razz…
    Quote Originally Posted by invisibleboy View Post
    I agree A LOT of attention & detail went into GWILDOR.....hey we paid A LOTY extra for it! I wonder what line he's from as I collect MOTUC figures & I think he's WAY TOO over detailed IMHO to be even close to fitting in.
    Quote Originally Posted by mjharwood View Post
    It's not so much the hyper detail that raises the price, but the fact that there is pretty much NOTHING reusable about the sculpt. At least with Orko, they could reuse most of him to give us other Trollans from the cartoon... But Gwildor truly is one of a kind.
    Unnamed One, Madame Razz, Extendar and Mantenna weren't $35 and those characters are just as non-reusable as Gwildor is. At least Ram Man could have been re-released in his orange and red cardback colors.

    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    That being said, I think people are totally not understanding what 'Classisizer machine' means, or what the Horsemen have been doing with the visual style of this line. It's not about making every character as plainly detailed as possible with no detail. They've had intricate detail right from the start, and all throughout the line. Have they gone overboard with Gwildor? No, I don't think so, it fits with what they were going for with this figure.

    It's about taking all the previous appearances of that character, mashing them up, and fitting them onto the Classics buck. Obviously, Gwildor is a unique sculpt, so he doesn't fit on the Classics buck, but you have elements from both the movie (head sculpt, staff) and the toy (color palette, handheld cosmic key). Sometimes they go further in one direction than another (usually when one look has never been in plastic before) , and sometimes when there's only one source to draw from (like Dactus or Madame Razz) the figure ends up being more or less detailed, but they've been doing that from the start.

    But Gwildor totally fits in with the other figures to me. The color palette, materials, paint style, proportions, sculpting style, etc all still say Classics to me. Sure, he has more detail than some other figures, but that's what the character calls for, and it doesn't stick out to me at all. I mean, just look at him next to He-Man in the pictures SCB posted, he looks totally right to me.

    I guess it just drives me kind of nuts that every time they release a figure with a little more sculpting detail, some say the same thing about that figure not fitting in (and then of course the figure fits in perfectly). Personally, I trust the Horsemen's decisions, and I think they knocked this out of the park.
    The Classicizer™ was TG's excuse to justify less tooling and reuse of parts. Look at various 200X elements that characters lost. For the longest, Mattel didn't want to make a He-Man with longer hair, just to keep a consistent look within the toyline. Hell, we just got through that mess with Failmation Hordak's head.

    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    Not a single PoP gal (nor most of the MOTU guys or gals!) have enjoyed the level of and attention to detail that Gwildor has gotten. It's admittedly a great-looking figure, but I'm not so sure how I feel about him amongst the 100 or so figures in the line I've already collected. He looks completely out of place and more like he should be in the 2002 era toyline! He's- oddly enough- equal parts a win and a fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Yes.

    Put him next to Madame Razz, or Orko, or even King Randor or Wun-Dar...

    He's expertly sculpted, but he looks like a figure from another line. . I still love him, and highly respect the sculptor... But it's a case of him needing a little less detail (more like the vintage figure, and not like the movie) and many others needing more.

    Sy-Klone, for example, does not even look like he's from the same line as Gwildor
    I agree with those who think that Gwildor is too detailed compared with everyone else, but I don't take that as a negative. The oldest characters have sparse detail in comparison and heavily re-use parts, so the newer characters with exquisite detail are really going to stand out next to most of the older characters. Hell, even the really cartoony characters stand out as well.

    This is just a reality of the line we collect.

    We run the gamut from too Filmation/MYP cartoony to too 200X/1987 Movie detailed. Remember when Carnivus was hated because he looked like a Disney character? Now we have the polar opposite of this.

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  7. #32
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    If he wasn't this detailed, there'd be another group of pitch forkers screaming Muppet Head!

  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior SonOfHeMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The Classicizer™ was TG's excuse to justify less tooling and reuse of parts. Look at various 200X elements that characters lost. For the longest, Mattel didn't want to make a He-Man with longer hair, just to keep a consistent look within the toyline. Hell, we just got through that mess with Failmation Hordak's head.

    What? That makes no sense. ToyGuru didn't sculpt the figures. He's proven time and again that he has no real eye for design or details. It's the Horsemen by all accounts that have the most say with the design. Did he maybe influence a couple things here or there? Sure, but the Horsemen pretty much have come up with the Classic aesthetic by themselves. After all, they sculpted He-Man before even knowing who TG was. Why does everything have to turn into some sort of anti-ToyGuru rant for you? If you have anything against the design of the figures, the Horsemen are the ones to talk about (and even they will admit that not everything has been done perfectly).

    Back to the issue at hand, if you actually look at the figures, you can definitely see common design threads that run through all the figures. The color palettes being the most obvious to me - the Horsemen tend to use a subtlely muted, de-saturated color palette (which can sometimes get them in trouble when people want white whites or gold golds on the POP figures). When people do vintage toy repaints, for example, you can really see the difference. This alone makes all the figures look like "Classics."

    The sculpting also has a very particular style to it. Everything is kind of bulkier with very classic proportions. The musculature is very rounded, not squared off. You don't see overly elongated limbs, or big boots, or anything super sytlized like that. Accessories and armor tend not to be overly elongated. The proportions in general are not all completely realistic, but it's not totally unreal either. They have kind of a silver age comic book feel to them. People get caught up in sculpted detail being the element of the sculpts that hold the line together, but it's actually this.

    Very rarely is a sculpt/paint/accessories drawn from one era of influence. When you only have one source (like Madame Razz) then it tends to lean on that, but you can usually see the influence from all the different eras (although sometimes when a certain look never saw plastic, they did tend to skew harder towards that, like most of the POP figures looking like Filmation, or some of the earlier figures skewing pretty hard towards 8-back).

    You can go down the line and list where each figure pulls influence from.

    Starting with He-Man, he's mostly classic toy, but the head sculpt definitely has 200x/mini-comic/Filmation influences. His head is not a carbon copy of any of those, but it's a decent stand-in for any of them (and this is why they didn't want to make a head with longer hair). The body and loincloth don't have a 200x level of detail, but the sculpt is definitely much sharper than, say, the vintage figures.

    Orko - mostly they're pulling from Filmation/vintage toy for him, but there's still 200x influence with the wand. The scale is definitely more Filmation influenced.

    Hordak - Like He-Man, there's influence from a lot of different sources here. There's some nice 200x-ish details in his face and armor (like the dry brushing). The staff is pretty much ripped from the staction, as is the whole color palette. The detail on his Imp accessory is ramped up. The head is not exactly Filmation or 200x or vintage toy or anything. Like He-Man, it's a blend, and a decent stand in for any specific look (which is, again, why they didn't do a Filmation specific head sculpt).

    Sy-Klone - again, mostly vintage figure, but there's still 200x influence with the ring on his back.

    Rio Blast - the design is mostly vintage figure, but with some 200x influence on the sharper details, especially on the boots.

    Fisto/Jitsu - Mostly these guys are classic toy, with the exception of the head sculpt of course. The detail is ramped up in certain spots (especially the heads, and many people complained about the 200x-ish head sculpts, but I think the Horsemen made the right choice as the figures as they are fit in perfectly and look great). They have lots of great 200x influence on the armor/accessories (moreso Fisto).

    Gwildor - If you look at the original toy, the robes have a lot of sculpted detail (even if the sculpt is soft, he has a lot of little fun stuff on him - http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/...dor06_full.jpg). The movie costume is also very detailed. So, naturally, the Classics figure is going to be very detailed. The head sculpt is sculpted more towards the movie, but even then it's not a carbon copy. If you look at them side by side, the proportions are different, and the detail has been scaled back. The head sculpt on the vintage figure actually also has a lot of great detail, and the Classics figure borrows some proportion and stuff like the paint on the eyes from it. The actual robes themselves skew pretty close to the movie, but stuff like the gadget in his pocket looks like it's from the toy. The colors are also much more vintage toy than movie (the movie being a lot dirtier and muted), they "pop" more and are very toyetic. And, of course, the handheld cosmic key is straight from the toy.

    Rarely is a figure a total carbon copy of one source. Most figures have a base style they're drawing from, with a splash of this and a splash of that, all with a very consistent sculpting style and paint palette. Some people might prefer to see more 200x influence, or more vintage toy influence, or mini-comic, or whatever, and that's fine, but that's not what Classics is about (and it's why they so rarely have given us alternate head sculpts done in a specific style).
    Last edited by SonOfHeMan; December 19, 2014 at 02:36pm.

  9. #34
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    As the line winds down, I can step back see where a lot of mistakes have been made. There characters have pulled from across all media representation of MOTU, NA & PoP. That is 100% to be applauded. The problem with this line lies with the hardcore fact that they have failed in making all these various sources of the characters look as if they fit into one, uniform toyline. Going forward in the future, with whatever scale or sculpt Mattel decides to go with for MOTU toys, I want to see Sy-Klone, Gwildor, Starla, Teela, Count Marzo, Light Hope, Madam Razz, Orko, and He-Man all look like they are cut from the same cloth... enjoying the same level of detail in the sculpts, paint apps, articulation, etc.
    Classics has the feel that things were changed or tweaked as they went along, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. Normally I'd be all about that, but this- for me- was supposed to be the be all and end all of He-Man & She-Ra toylines and the feeling I'm left with as I look at everything we've gotten is... it's a little bit too all over the place in terms of design, sculpt, and most importantly- QUALITY. But that's just my personal critique. I still love 'em, but I do wish a uniform rule was ironed out from the beginning and sort of stuck with over the years, if that makes sense.
    Uniformity was always all over the place in MOTU. This is moreso a question of aesthetic taste on the part of the individual collector. Even with the Vintage era, the level of detail rose, due to having a larger budget to play with in later years. Blast Attack, Dragstor, Horde Trooper and Rio Blast doesn't fit in with the earlier He-Man, Teela and Beast Man. With characters getting influences from completely different sources, this is even more apparent now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    What? That makes no sense. ToyGuru didn't sculpt the figures. He's proven time and again that he has no real eye for design or details. Why does everything have to be some sort of anti-ToyGuru rant for you?
    You believe TG's claim that the brand manager doesn't make design decisions.

    Go back on Mattycollector around 2010 and read some of the arguments that I've had with TG over getting a 200X He-Man in Classics. Merely making the existing He-Man's hair longer was considered Hyper Anime Detail. Has nothing to do with any other MOTU forum.

    I've never made any secret of my having problems with alot of TG's judgement and decisions, although when he did good I did give him recognition.

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  10. #35
    Ancient One zodak74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Uniformity was always all over the place in MOTU. This is moreso a question of aesthetic taste on the part of the individual collector. Even with the Vintage era, the level of detail rose, due to having a larger budget to play with in later years. Blast Attack, Dragstor, Horde Trooper and Rio Blast doesn't fit in with the earlier He-Man, Teela and Beast Man. With characters getting influences from completely different sources, this is even more apparent now.
    I get that. But in this day and age, I guess what I was hoping to see what more uniformity right from the get-go... so that as time went on and more characters were released, they'd all fit a little bit better together. I remember when Filmation rights were announced, one of my big hopes was "Well, I hope they add some detail in one these characters so that the characters merge with the previous figures...", and it didn't exactly happen (see: Catra, Eternos Palace Randor, Nepthu... in fact, they dumbed his design down so much so that they forgot to even include the evil eyebrows on the poor guy... which in the Filmation cartoon was a big part of his look that actually made him look sinister!).

  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior sirsniffy's Avatar
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    Instead of the small Cosmic Key, I would have given him a second vintage head.

  12. #37
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Yes.

    Put him next to Madame Razz, or Orko, or even King Randor or Wun-Dar...

    He's expertly sculpted, but he looks like a figure from another line. . I still love him, and highly respect the sculptor... But it's a case of him needing a little less detail (more like the vintage figure, and not like the movie) and many others needing more.

    Sy-Klone, for example, does not even look like he's from the same line as Gwildor
    You could though say the same thing about several of the figures in the vintage line. The cold hard fact is that the vintage line was all over the place and so is MOTUC. That's the price you pay when you have line that is so diverse. MOTU is "swords and sorcery" and "sci-fi" at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Uniformity was always all over the place in MOTU. This is moreso a question of aesthetic taste on the part of the individual collector. Even with the Vintage era, the level of detail rose, due to having a larger budget to play with in later years. Blast Attack, Dragstor, Horde Trooper and Rio Blast doesn't fit in with the earlier He-Man, Teela and Beast Man. With characters getting influences from completely different sources, this is even more apparent now.

    Yep. The whole franchise has never been uniform.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    If he wasn't this detailed, there'd be another group of pitch forkers screaming Muppet Head!

    Yeah. We'd be having the same complaints we got with Clawful, Roboto, Buzz Off....even though all of those heads were accurate versions of the classic figures.

  13. #38
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Yep "slaves to the vintage line" as the Horsemen have been accused of being.

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
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    In place of the large cosmic key I'd have given him his grapple hook. That's the only minor nitpick I have with him.
    I like characters such as the Horde Troopers and Palace Guard having a uniform look because, well, they are in uniform! But other character I find the more unique from each other the better. Same in life, I refuse to wear a uniform for anything. One of the reasons I hated high school. There is something I find so drab and boring about people all looking the same.

  15. #40
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    Yes he is super detailed but look at it this way a cartoon based toyline are the vintage updates and if there was a live action motion picture based toyline of the film tiday gwildor and blade would be in it. So if course there would be two different aesthetics
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  16. #41
    Vintage Vintage Vintage Vlcan's Avatar
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    I actually enjoy more detail. We should re-do the entire MOTUC line like this.

  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior SonOfHeMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Uniformity was always all over the place in MOTU. This is moreso a question of aesthetic taste on the part of the individual collector. Even with the Vintage era, the level of detail rose, due to having a larger budget to play with in later years. Blast Attack, Dragstor, Horde Trooper and Rio Blast doesn't fit in with the earlier He-Man, Teela and Beast Man. With characters getting influences from completely different sources, this is even more apparent now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You believe TG's claim that the brand manager doesn't make design decisions.

    Go back on Mattycollector around 2010 and read some of the arguments that I've had with TG over getting a 200X He-Man in Classics. Merely making the existing He-Man's hair longer was considered Hyper Anime Detail. Has nothing to do with any other MOTU forum.

    I've never made any secret of my having problems with alot of TG's judgement and decisions, although when he did good I did give him recognition.
    I don't have to "believe" anything, I can just see from the way ToyGuru talks about design vs how the Horsemen talk about it that he just has no real grasp of design. It's kind of like a non-technical person talking about computers. The words are there and there's some basic grasp of the concepts, but some of the stuff he says is just off base. Not in a malicious way, you can just tell that it's not his forte. I don't know why you'd waste time arguing with him about it, it's clear to me that the Horsemen are ultimately in the driver's seat.

  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior Firesoullove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Yes.

    Put him next to Madame Razz, or Orko, or even King Randor or Wun-Dar...

    He's expertly sculpted, but he looks like a figure from another line. . I still love him, and highly respect the sculptor... But it's a case of him needing a little less detail (more like the vintage figure, and not like the movie) and many others needing more.
    ,
    Sy-Klone, for example, does not even look like he's from the same line as Gwildor
    Oh yes! I agree 100%. I like Gwildor but I sold him today after I got him... he looks totally from another line, he does not fit to He-Man, Madame, Mantenna, or the other... he looks more like a Lord of the ring figure or so but not MotUC... and he is the price not worth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Man THATS a pair of crossed eyes... never seen crossed eyes like this in the line...terrible...you should exchange him...

  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Ridureyu's Avatar
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    I got Gwildor today, and I have TONIGHT to photograph him for a review before I fly out tomorrow!

    Which cosmic key is the prototype?

  20. #45
    Heroic Warrior Kreann'ot's Avatar
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    Figure detail aside, I really wish they had gone with a clear crystal on his staff (like Eldor has), rather than that white plastic. It looks like a ....erm...personal massager.
    Some remaining, post 2017-Reveals, WANTS:
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  21. #46
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    I don't have to "believe" anything, I can just see from the way ToyGuru talks about design vs how the Horsemen talk about it that he just has no real grasp of design. It's kind of like a non-technical person talking about computers. The words are there and there's some basic grasp of the concepts, but some of the stuff he says is just off base. Not in a malicious way, you can just tell that it's not his forte. I don't know why you'd waste time arguing with him about it, it's clear to me that the Horsemen are ultimately in the driver's seat.
    That's not true. Toyguru DID call alot of the shots when it came to some of the design choices, especially when it came to cost and omitting things. He was the one who had to put the seal of approval on the final version of the figures before they went on sale. He also had a habit of shifting blame to the 4H (whom fans tended not to question) whenever his decisions were unpopular.

    He told us in 2010 that it wasn't a matter of not being able to do it, it was a matter of not wanting to do it.

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  22. #47
    Ancient One zodak74's Avatar
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    Having just opened mine, I do like this figure quite a bit. I think he is impressive and obviously a lot of care and attention to detail went into this lil' guy. I would have been perfectly happy to have him come with only the movie staff (with a clear crystal topper, because yes- the white just looks... bad) and omit the other two cosmic keys. Especially since Preternia Disguise He-Man already came with one. Then the price could have been cut back to the cost of a normal figure. I just find having three cosmic keys (two different sizes, two of them the same sculpt just different colors) to be redundant and unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. It's not what I was hoping to get in the $35 holiday slot, but as time goes by and I forget what the figure cost, I will probably grow to appreciate him more. Having said that, I am still of the mind that if they were going to go all out for Gwildor, then the same amount of time and effort should have been put into each Star Sister, into Orko, Cringer, etc. And going forward, I'm going to probably find myself getting irritated every time a future figure gets "dumbed down" in the design process or has corners cut because GWILDOR. You know?

  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firesoullove View Post
    Man THATS a pair of crossed eyes... never seen crossed eyes like this in the line...terrible...you should exchange him...
    Pretty sure that's supposed to be on purpose, as the character (and the actor who played him, Billy Barty) had a lazy eye.
    MOTUC Wishlist: Songster, Evil Robot, Tuvar and Badra, Game Master, Grayskull Robot, Andros, Monstroid, the new villains from He-Ro/Dare

  24. #49

  25. #50
    Ancient One zodak74's Avatar
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    May 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison Carter View Post
    Pretty sure that's supposed to be on purpose, as the character (and the actor who played him, Billy Barty) had a lazy eye.
    The likeness IS rather nightmarish!

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