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Thread: "Rise of the Snake Men" #3 (of 3) Talkback

  1. #51
    Heroic Warrior Frankos's Avatar
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    I must be on drugs, unlike most of you I prefered the cartoon version over the comic one, but actually LOVED the fact it had heads of pannels!
    BLAH to splash pages I say!

    Also the dialogue is improving immensly from Volume 2.

    Anyway overall loved the first half, the fact the masters had an army made more sense then the cartoon, so the comic was better here by a mile.

    However the hiss battles here were no where near as good at the toon. The sorceress battle was way too physical, and I felt the zodak battle didn't empisise the fact he had the elders powers enough.
    Also, why do snake faces' stone effects wear off once he got stoned? Does that mean he should be freed himself as well? It makes no real sense.

    But the thing *I* really disliked was the evil lyn spell at the end. WTF???!!! Suddenly she can tear apart an entire army with one spell??? Talk about out of balance! Between this and skeletors instant teleportation spell we are really entering cheeseball territory with the magic, I hope this trend does not continue.

  2. #52
    Heroic Warrior A.J.'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Frankos
    But the thing *I* really disliked was the evil lyn spell at the end. WTF???!!! Suddenly she can tear apart an entire army with one spell??? Talk about out of balance! Between this and skeletors instant teleportation spell we are really entering cheeseball territory with the magic, I hope this trend does not continue.
    Eh, I gotta disagree. In the cartoon, because the writers are forced too, I know it, Skeletor and his warriors are severely underpowered (as are the Snake Men) and never seem to have a chance against the rather big roster heavy Masters. You say Evil Lyn can take out an entire army and that's out of balance? Hell, look at He-Man and Zodak! That's what they can too and that's not out of balance for our favorite villians?

    He-Man and Zodak are super powerful and can very well stand on their own against Skeletor and his warriors and the Snake Men. Syclone is pretty powerful himself, Roboto too as could be Orko if given the chance. Magic is a great weapon. Hence Evil Lyn. The good guys always win. It's great now that the bad guys are can be super powerful as well.

    I love the comic because well, it is basically for us fans. A chance for really cool stories. The fact that Skeletor can now teleport (a great heads up and nod to the old series) and Evil Lyn firing off that uber spell is actually really cool. Our favorite villians are showing more power and strength over the Masters, showing us that they too can stand on their own when need be.

    No way is that cheese territory. And why do you think it is cheese territory? The whole concept and idea behind MOTU is being a story about science fiction and fantasy. Magic is definately fantasy. So is Zodak and He-Man cheese? Evil Lyn is character with magic, and powerful magic at that too like He-Man and Zodak.

    A.J.
    Last edited by A.J.; January 1, 2004 at 10:54pm.

  3. #53
    Slow puddleduck's Avatar
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    I finally got around to getting this issue. Lucky for me I got it on sale because of Boxing Day. I really enjoyed this issue; probably the most out of the three. I may be in the minority but I liked how there were many panels for each page - we got a lot of story in the issue, it moved along at a brisk pace and even though the drawings were small, they featured some great art and did a remarkable job of storytelling. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the staples in the middle of the book because I realised how much story there was. It was a very satisfying read.

    Some things that I'd like to mention that were particularly sublime:

    The pages where King Hsss tears through his human disguise and the Sorceress contacts He-man telepathically were great. I particularly liked the anguish of the Sorceress, King Hsss cackling as he attacked the Jawbridge and Rattlor brushing the blood away. If there was one thing wrong with those pages it might be the telepathic message from the Sorceress to He-man. The thought balloon might have been more distinct so that the reader would know it was telepathy.

    The scene where Snake-face looked at his reflection in the power sword. The reflected image looks awesome and I like how his voice cut off, "NOOOO*"

    There are other things I could mention, but I think it would be easier to restate that even though there were a lot of panels/frames etc., each one was in itself a perfect story-advancing-picture. None of them were wasted or superfluous.
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  4. #54
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Frankos
    But the thing *I* really disliked was the evil lyn spell at the end. WTF???!!! Suddenly she can tear apart an entire army with one spell??? Talk about out of balance! Between this and skeletors instant teleportation spell we are really entering cheeseball territory with the magic, I hope this trend does not continue.
    we saw evil lyn break a whole lotta **** in the beginning and tonight's new episode
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

    'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

  5. #55
    Heroic Warrior Frankos's Avatar
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    Originally posted by A.J.
    Eh, I gotta disagree. In the cartoon, because the writers are forced too, I know it, Skeletor and his warriors are severely underpowered (as are the Snake Men) and never seem to have a chance against the rather big roster heavy Masters. You say Evil Lyn can take out an entire army and that's out of balance? Hell, look at He-Man and Zodak! That's what they can too and that's not out of balance for our favorite villians?


    I disagree. The problem isn't with the masters, its with the other evil warriors. If evil lynn is this powerful, then what is the point of the other warriors. Why the hell does skeletor need them. When you have magic this powerful with no drawback (skeletor and Lynn have been shown as top fighters as well) then guys like Clawfull, whiplash and trapjaw become useless. Evil Lynn hogs the spotlight because of this very reason.

    No way is that cheese territory. And why do you think it is cheese territory? The whole concept and idea behind MOTU is being a story about science fiction and fantasy. Magic is definately fantasy. So is Zodak and He-Man cheese? Evil Lyn is character with magic, and powerful magic at that too like He-Man and Zodak.
    All universes have to follow its own internal logic. LOTR does this, as does Star Wars, Star Trek etc. MOTU, when it does things like shifting characters power levels constantly or he-mans strength (like that rediculous tower throw in the toon) is breaking it's internal logic and thus becoming cheesball. Why didn't lynn cast this umber power spell of distruction on the masters forces as soon as they appeared? Why is skeletor always looking for magic bosting artifacts when his cheif lackey can perform spells like this? It makes no sense and just ends up having the writers paint themselves into a corner.
    The ending where the snakemen commit mass suicide due to the apparent death of Hiss adds more character to the snakemen and makes a heck of a lot more sense (tho It was handled poorly in the cartoon.)

  6. #56
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Frankos:

    Logic?
    What logic? Your logic?
    It's fantasy and magic... there is no logic unless you want it to exist.

    Let's just chalk this one up to you disliking the comic.
    I'm not going to try and explain it all... it spoils the ride.

  7. #57
    Heroic Warrior Frankos's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JVS3
    Frankos:

    Logic?
    What logic? Your logic?
    It's fantasy and magic... there is no logic unless you want it to exist.

    Let's just chalk this one up to you disliking the comic.
    I'm not going to try and explain it all... it spoils the ride.
    There still has to be an internal logic, even if it IS fantasy and magic. You set up the rules of the world, and then you have to obey them or it doesn't make sense.
    Same with the toon tower throw. The toon up until that point established that he-man has strength to throw people and bloders around, but then in rattle he suddenly can hurl massive towers into the sun? It breaks the internal logic the series had set up so far. If he-man always had this level of strength, then things in previous episodes dont make sense, such as his inability to break bonds.

    If it is a fantasy setting, it means you can break real world logic (like by having fire breathing dragons) but there is still an established internal logic that can't be broken without a reason otherwise its just poor writing (for example, having an episode of the toon where dragons suddenly talk without explanation. The internal logic of the toon states that dragons cannot talk, therefor if they do start talking there needs to be an explanation given as to why (magic spell, different species etc.) Hope that makes sense.

    Anyway I reread it last night and noted that several other masters noted this 'power boost' as well, so it may be addressed in future issues. If not, sorry JVS, buti put that 2nd last page down to bad writing.

    While I enjoyed the toon more than the comic, I wouldn't say I disliked the comic per say, the most interesting thing I found was being able to directly compare the comic to the cartoon and try and pinpoint what it is that the comic is doing differently to the toon that is making the comic just not click for me.

  8. #58
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Frankos
    Same with the toon tower throw.
    Actually the tower is thrown into a temporal gate and then it was sent into the sun. Ive watched it a few times, its definately lunged threw a gate and then teleported into space where it goes flying into the sun.

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  9. #59
    Heroic Warrior A.J.'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Frankos
    I disagree. The problem isn't with the masters, its with the other evil warriors. If evil lynn is this powerful, then what is the point of the other warriors. Why the hell does skeletor need them. When you have magic this powerful with no drawback (skeletor and Lynn have been shown as top fighters as well) then guys like Clawfull, whiplash and trapjaw become useless. Evil Lynn hogs the spotlight because of this very reason.


    All universes have to follow its own internal logic. LOTR does this, as does Star Wars, Star Trek etc. MOTU, when it does things like shifting characters power levels constantly or he-mans strength (like that rediculous tower throw in the toon) is breaking it's internal logic and thus becoming cheesball. Why didn't lynn cast this umber power spell of distruction on the masters forces as soon as they appeared? Why is skeletor always looking for magic bosting artifacts when his cheif lackey can perform spells like this? It makes no sense and just ends up having the writers paint themselves into a corner.
    The ending where the snakemen commit mass suicide due to the apparent death of Hiss adds more character to the snakemen and makes a heck of a lot more sense (tho It was handled poorly in the cartoon.)
    If you want to look that deeply into it, then that's fine. But remember this is fantasy and make-believe. But you're missing my entire point, and I'll say it again. Things are the way they are because of the writing. And it's not all the fault of the writers. Most of it goes to Mattel. Dean Stefan and the other writers are told by Mattel pretty much what to do. Yes, us long time fans watch the show and Mattel definatley knows it, but you must remember that the show was also designed for children to watch. So because of that, some watering and dumbing down must be done. Hence why good always conquers evil. Which is why we have dumb villians who most are weak, and why we have powerful heros like He-Man, Zodak, SyKlone, and after this weekends episode I remembered Mossman. The guy is uber powerful. For the fans who watch, we get to see pretty much all the characters we grew up with, with a lot of the story elements from the original series being transfered over to the new series with maybe some spins on them. And I applaud Mattel for doing that for us. But at the same time, I know that this show is also made for children, so we can't all get our wishes sometimes. Which is why the comic is such a great thing! Though, in terms of comparing the original series and the MYP series, things have been done in the MYP series that you would have never seen in the Filmation series. And for us fans, that has been a great thing, and it's been a lot of fun to watch all of this.

    I'm not critisizing you, please believe me. You after all entitled to your own opinion. But I always find it hard to understand how people that look that deeply into these fantasy themed stories like Star Wars, Star Trek and MOTU can really enjoy them when they pick a part stuff. And I mean really pick a apart stuff to the point that it's just ridiculous. And I've seen these people and it gets really scary sometimes.

    What's great about the comic is that it's NOT the cartoon. Things are a little more to the liking of us fans. One thing I like is that the villians are a little more nastier. Clawful doesn't come off like a bumbling idiot with a voice that makes him sound like he has an IQ of 5. Even the big man himself Skeletor is a little nastier. With the theme of battles and war, it makes this fantasy story seem a little more realistic. Like death among the Eternian soldiers for example, and Mekaneck getting badly injured etc. The Masters while still powerful, have a little bit more difficult time in taking care of Skeletor and his crew, Hiss and the Snake Men and now Hordak and The Horde. I really can't wait to see what Val has in store for villians Skeletor, King Hiss, and now Hordak.

    The comic has also given us something that the toon will never give us. Scareglow! That was such a surprise when I opened that issue up, I had to laugh. The people who run the comic really know what they're doing. Everyone knows the old saying, you can't please everyone. And not everyone will pleased. All you can do is respect what those in charge are doing and know that they are doing the best they can for the people that this is really aimed towards.

    Now if you are talking about Mattel and how we think things are being done, well, that's another matter altogether...

    A.J.

  10. #60
    Heroic Warrior Frankos's Avatar
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    Originally posted by A.J.
    If you want to look that deeply into it, then that's fine. But remember this is fantasy and make-believe. But you're missing my entire point, and I'll say it again. Things are the way they are because of the writing. And it's not all the fault of the writers. Most of it goes to Mattel. Dean Stefan and the other writers are told by Mattel pretty much what to do. Yes, us long time fans watch the show and Mattel definatley knows it, but you must remember that the show was also designed for children to watch. So because of that, some watering and dumbing down must be done. Hence why good always conquers evil. Which is why we have dumb villians who most are weak, and why we have powerful heros like He-Man, Zodak, SyKlone, and after this weekends episode I remembered Mossman. The guy is uber powerful. For the fans who watch, we get to see pretty much all the characters we grew up with, with a lot of the story elements from the original series being transfered over to the new series with maybe some spins on them. And I applaud Mattel for doing that for us. But at the same time, I know that this show is also made for children, so we can't all get our wishes sometimes. Which is why the comic is such a great thing! Though, in terms of comparing the original series and the MYP series, things have been done in the MYP series that you would have never seen in the Filmation series. And for us fans, that has been a great thing, and it's been a lot of fun to watch all of this.

    I'm not critisizing you, please believe me. You after all entitled to your own opinion. But I always find it hard to understand how people that look that deeply into these fantasy themed stories like Star Wars, Star Trek and MOTU can really enjoy them when they pick a part stuff. And I mean really pick a apart stuff to the point that it's just ridiculous. And I've seen these people and it gets really scary sometimes.

    What's great about the comic is that it's NOT the cartoon. Things are a little more to the liking of us fans. One thing I like is that the villians are a little more nastier. Clawful doesn't come off like a bumbling idiot with a voice that makes him sound like he has an IQ of 5. Even the big man himself Skeletor is a little nastier. With the theme of battles and war, it makes this fantasy story seem a little more realistic. Like death among the Eternian soldiers for example, and Mekaneck getting badly injured etc. The Masters while still powerful, have a little bit more difficult time in taking care of Skeletor and his crew, Hiss and the Snake Men and now Hordak and The Horde. I really can't wait to see what Val has in store for villians Skeletor, King Hiss, and now Hordak.

    The comic has also given us something that the toon will never give us. Scareglow! That was such a surprise when I opened that issue up, I had to laugh. The people who run the comic really know what they're doing. Everyone knows the old saying, you can't please everyone. And not everyone will pleased. All you can do is respect what those in charge are doing and know that they are doing the best they can for the people that this is really aimed towards.

    Now if you are talking about Mattel and how we think things are being done, well, that's another matter altogether...

    A.J.
    I think you are getting the wrong impression of me AJ. Im not one of these Umber geeks who dresses up in star wars gear or anything (in fact I doin't really like starwars.) As far as the cartoons go, Im one of the new toons biggest supporters on this board. I don't feel skeletors crew are underpowered in it, sure they get beaten every week but that is what happens in half an hour toons. In fact there are very few things that I would pick on about the toon, and I'm not a big cartoon watcher.

    I don't see how arguing that Evil Lynn's spell is too powerful is 'nitpicking', to me it was a cop out ending that came from nowhere. I think the difference with me compared to everyone else is that I'm not a 'toy colector' or the type of guy who goes to comic conventions or anything like that. I get the he-man toys just because I did as a kid, I got no other toy lines before the new he-man line and once it ends so does my toy buying. Therefor I guess I approach the property like I approach any movie or whatever. If I was watching a flick and the main character pulled a out a machine gun out of nowhere and gunned the badguys down I would say "WTF???" and basically that's what I felt happened with evil lynn and her megaspell. I don't feel it is nitpicking, to me it is a glaring logic error.

    All I want are good enjoyable stories, I dont care about 'special guest appearance by rio blast this week' or anything like that, which is the direction I feel the comic may be heading in which is why I have been somewhat grumpy about it of late. I do enjoy the comic, but I do feel it has some problems. While I love (and agree with) the fact it is much more mature than the toon, I feel that the 'adventure' aspect has kind of been lost, and it lost its fun a bit, especially in volume 2 which became too melodramatic for me, with people lamenting about skeletor and what he has done etc. I guess that is why I enjoyed IOE - tho the stories could have been a little more creative, they had a sense of fun and adventure that is missing for me from the main title while still maintaining a darker and more mature tone.

    Another problem might be that the only other comics I am reading are the Ultimate line, which is almost all written by Bendis, who is one of the greatest writers as far as character and dialogue go, so when I start reading MOTU (a property I prefer more than Marvel) I kind of wish I got the same level of characterisation as I do with something like ultimate spidey, which is probably somewhat unfair on Val.

    But the majority seem happy with the comic, so more power to it.

  11. #61
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Heh heh, I'm not a big fan of Ultimates.
    A rough and tumble redo of existing characters, typically more conversation than action, by a writer whose been around for a long long time giving him the experience to get it done.
    And it's also subject to the same nitpick you mentioned: Who's going to appear this time?
    Like MOTU, it may not happen with each issue, but that factor is there. And that's what fans want to see. What character will get the "ultimate" treatment?

    Do I think it's bad? No. But it does bore me.
    But, that's just me.
    I don't know what you consider characterization, but I've always felt I do a good job defining the individual characters.
    So, it's all a matter of opinion and what the individual likes.
    I do appreciate the feedback, Kafos. Doesn't mean I agree with you, but your certainly entitled to you're opinion like anyone else.

  12. #62
    Karl99
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    I have to say I'm with Frankos on the whole internal logic thing, just because it's fantasy doesn't mean you have to keep changing things around all the time.

    Decide how strong He-Man is and stick to it, decide what sorts of things the each of the various magic using characters can do and stick to it. Don't have the magic users be as good a hand to hand or melee combatants as the non magic users as it demeans those that don't use magic.

    "so your a sorcerer hey, well that likely means most of your time is spent developing your magic leaving little time for the pursuit of the martial arts"

    Just because something is based in a fantasty setting doesn't mean you can't try to look at it realisticly.

    Evil Lyn should in melee and hand to hand get trashed by every other one of Skeletors henchman with the possible exeption of Stinkor.

    There is a reason why in nearly every FANTASY RPG setting that magic users aren't that good a fighters or can't wear armour or whatever and it's not just to make things fair.

    I think the White Wolf games handle it the best, there aren't any of these restrictions (well not in the same way) instead you can be a magic using warrior but if you split your XP expenditure between the two you will be less proficient in both of them than someone who doesn't split their focus.

    Having these types of guidelines doesn't become inhibative it actually allows for a greater degree of emersion in the setting. A little bit of thought and effort in this area and keeping to certain guidelines ultimatly pays off in the end and anything else is IMO lazy.

  13. #63
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Until you know the whole truth, all you have is speculation.

  14. #64
    Mistress of the Whip! Divia's Avatar
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    Well I for one didnt like the end. Evil Lyn is turning into wolverine. She's all powerful and has too much air time in the cartoon and is on too many pages in the comic. Everytime I see her I want to roll my eyes. I used to like her once but now it seems as if she is being overused.
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  15. #65
    Heroic Warrior Frankos's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JVS3
    Heh heh, I'm not a big fan of Ultimates.
    A rough and tumble redo of existing characters, typically more conversation than action, by a writer whose been around for a long long time giving him the experience to get it done.
    And it's also subject to the same nitpick you mentioned: Who's going to appear this time?
    Like MOTU, it may not happen with each issue, but that factor is there. And that's what fans want to see. What character will get the "ultimate" treatment?

    Do I think it's bad? No. But it does bore me.
    But, that's just me.
    I don't know what you consider characterization, but I've always felt I do a good job defining the individual characters.
    So, it's all a matter of opinion and what the individual likes.
    I do appreciate the feedback, Kafos. Doesn't mean I agree with you, but your certainly entitled to you're opinion like anyone else.
    Was that Kafos' feedback or mine? lol
    Disagree 100% on you about the Ultimate line - the bendis stuff anyway (and I'm far from a comic affictionardo, but I was under the impression Bendis hasn't been around all that long???)
    I think that Ultimate Spider-man is THE way to do a redo - the reduxed characters are well thought out and fit story first, I prefer conversation and characterisation than endless action, and the story arcs, when looked at together, make a HELL of a lot of sense, and have been really well thought out. Looking at the overall story, you can see spiderman really growing, and the method and timing of the introduction of the characters is what is causeing that. The first arc was the origin which set up his arch nemesis, the second arc was his first 'case' where he was forced to learn to use his brains over just jumping in, then came his first battle with a true supervillan where he learns his next lesson, etc. Each arc adds something and ends up being important to the whole, rather than 'just another adventure of spiderman'.
    While you can never fully get rid of the 'what will ultimate mysterio be like' feeling 100% (nor should you) I have never felt that a character was forced in or rushed just to please fans - with the exception of Ultimate Venom which ended up being the weakest arc.
    I'm not saying new characters shouldn't ever be introduced into the MOTU comic, I'm just saying it should not be the focus of the comic.

    Ultimate X-men, on the other hand, is exactly what happens when you throw in characters left right and centre, hardly explore any of them, and try and tell an epic, world shattering story at the expense of characters and without thinking it through first - a big pile of ****. If Millar hadn't left the title I would have dropped it by now. While I am enjoying the Ultimates currently, I can't help but feel its 2 seconds from jumping the shark and going the way of ultimate x-men.

    RE- characterisation in MOTU, I think the problem is the masters seem to simply have a working relationship with each other, and are only related through skeletor. "Oh hi Man-E-Faces. Whats up. I wonder what Skeletor is planning next?" Don't these guys do anything but think about what evil they have to face next? Maybe have some sub-plots which dont involve combating evil at all, maybe mossman hates roboto because he is racist against robots or something. Anything which puts their personality beyond 'we beat up bad guys for a living'.
    The trapjaw-triclops-evil lynn thing was great because it was so different. It was a great character moment which defined and differentiated them all. On the other hand the man-at-arms deathbed scene in volume 2 I wasn't really impressed with, it was too melodramatic to me, with everyone just moping around crying because man-at-arms could die which spelt the end of the world apparently. If someone had of come in and started issuing orders for a counterattack, because "we can't just all sit around here like nannys, there is work to be done!" and thus had of created a bit of friction with others like teela who felt her father was being disrespected or something, the scene would have been more interesting. As it stood I felt it was too typical and cliche, and felt more like a soap opera. But thats just my opinion, and I remember other people calling it the best issue ever, so you cant please them all.
    Oh yeah, and finally, I'm 100% with Diva on the Evil Lynn thing. I'm REALLY getting bored of her.

  16. #66
    USF Bull chuc98's Avatar
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    I finally got my copy of the ROTSM #3 today in the mail! I was unable to get it at my local comic shop, because by the time i'd gotten there, they'd already sold out! I really liked the comic more than the toon! King Hissss getting thrown onto the crystals! Whoaa!


  17. #67
    Heroic Warrior RedBaron's Avatar
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    I just got my copy yesterday too.

    I have to say that by the third issue, the art really improved.

    I think it's partly that Tong refined his penciling as well as the combination Tongs pencils with Jeremy Roberts' colours for a whole issue. When you get three colourists on one issue doing different pages (like ROTSM #2) it doesn't look so good.

    The story was also very good. Nice work Val, you covered a lot of space with a lot of action and important character dialouge.

    My only nitpick with the dialogue is that you're still overusing that very boring and generic battle speak:

    Sorceress: "This is where it ends, King Hsss" (14)

    Zodak: "Let us end this now!" (page 16)

    Although there is much less of it. In fact, the battle dialouge works much of the time. Duncan's line before clobbering Khan was excellent because it put a distinct bit of flavour in response to Kahn's generic battle statement, and the exchange between MEF and Syclone also worked.

    Also, King Hsss' dialouge isn't very well written. He sounded just like any generic villian questing for the power of grayskull. "hahah, the power shall be mine. Hahah, finally, after so long, it shall be mine. hahaha, you shall not defeat me..hahaha...oh, after so long.." etc. etc. Sounds overblown to me. Do you see what I mean?

    --------------

    In terms of layout, I liked the use of the smaller panels to get in as much action as possible. They worked more than I expected. Sometimes the panels were so small that I couldn't tell what was actually going on, but mostly it did a good job capturing the movement and scope of the battle in the limited space available.

    I think this was the best issue of the three.
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  18. #68
    Fake Impostor Non-Fan pH6's Avatar
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    Sniff. So many of my kin dead.
    "She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."

  19. #69
    Heroic Warrior Accident of Earth's Avatar
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    On the subject of writing fantasy, renowned author Terry Brooks had this to say (excerpt taken from his introduction to "The Writer's Complete Fantasy Reference", (c) 1998 Writer's Digest Books):
    ... Fantasy writing must be grounded in both truth and life experience if it is to work. It can be as inventive and creative as the writer can make it, a whirlwind of images and plot twists, but it cannot be built on a foundation of air. The world must be identifiable with our own, must offer us a frame of reference we can recognize. The characters must behave in ways that we believe reasonable and expected. The magic must work in a consistent and balanced manner. The book must leave us with a feeling of comprehension and satisfaction at having spent time turning its pages to discover its end...."
    - AoE

  20. #70
    Widget manatarms2032's Avatar
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    You know, I've only just recently decided to read the comics and I've become a huge fan. The first one I read was the Rise of the Snakemen mini. I just assumed it would pretty much follow the cartoon verbatum, but it adds so much more than what was in the series. And I won't spoil for any who haven't read yet, but that bit at the end with Evil-Lynn was friggan amazing. I now own the first mini series which was published by Image, a few issues of the second Image mini, The Power of Fear one shot, and of course the Rise of the Snakemen mini. How were the Icons of Evil one shots? Eh, to hell with it, I'll pick them up too. Can't wait for the new comic to start!
    "I touch the fire and it freezes me, I look into it and it's black. Why can't I feel? My skin should crack and peel...I want the fire back."

  21. #71
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Accident of Earth:

    Thanks for the quote.
    Not sure how that writer's opinion applies. But I suppose it's all relative to someone else's opinion. Guess everyone still must wait and see.

  22. #72
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Finally got a chance to pick up #3 (they sold out in most stores here... the clerk said MOTU had suddenly become popular for some reason)

    In any case... I like the art a lot. The number of panels WAS distracting at points. Maybe not even the number of panels... but some of the lay outs. And here's the thing about having this many panels - on one hand, I LIKE more panels. Especially if you get more story. That's not what we're getting for the most part though. We just get many panels of the same battles.

    The thing is, you can show with one or two panels a whole fight scene if you choose, by picking key moments in it. I know there was an attempt to go another way here... I'm just not sure if I like it or not.

    In any case, I like the book for the most part. Zodak's characterization seemed less annoying and pointless and generic in the comic book version. That was nice. I like the explanation of Evil-Lyn's destruction of the Snakemen over them just jumping off the cliff (though he did work in their strict devotion to them and highlighted it a bit more then the cartoon - even suggesting they work as one whole, which would have made the cliff-jumping ending make more sense.)

    I do, however, agree with the internal logic stuff. It's a basic fact of writing good fantasy. Saying you can do anything you want cause it's fantasy is SCARY. You have to set up a world with rules and then follow them. Good fantasy is grounded in the trappings of reality. HOWEVER, I'm willing to believe there is something more to Evil-Lyn and it's all part of her mystery. Though if she was so powerful why doesn't she take down Skeletor?

    I'm very much looking forward to Vol. 3 in any case.... is it bimonthly or not? I'm so confused by all this conflicting info swirling around.

  23. #73
    Dirk & Daphne Blue Jester's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Karl99
    I have to say I'm with Frankos on the whole internal logic thing, just because it's fantasy doesn't mean you have to keep changing things around all the time.

    Decide how strong He-Man is and stick to it, decide what sorts of things the each of the various magic using characters can do and stick to it. Don't have the magic users be as good a hand to hand or melee combatants as the non magic users as it demeans those that don't use magic.

    Agreed. How can I suspend my disbelief if I don't see a reality to substitute. The 'it's fantasy, magic' is just an excuse to me. Being a writer, to me, fantasy is taking something that isn't real and making it as believeable as possible.

    I came to this thread looking for an explanation to this action. Unless we are going somewhere with this power of hers, or I am missing some info, I have to consider it a 'deus ex machina.'

    I AM impressed with teh overall story and writing, enough that I'm considering break my oath to 'not get involved with this resurrectiojn of He-man to focus on my clasic collection' and actually continuing reading the comics

    ( Sorry, but I made that choice as soon as the new cartoon was announced. No time, no money).

  24. #74
    BIG DADDY SINISTER
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    I also had a problem with this sudden "Dragonball" upping of Evil-Lyn's power level. It came off very contrived and reeked of plot device. If she was truly this powerful, why has she never displayed this potency before, like in the many cases where it could actually have done some good? Why doesn't Evil-Lyn simply obliterate the Masters and be done with it?

    Inconsistencies in characterization does sour one's reading enjoyment. I too hope this will be followed up upon, and we get a feasible explanation. Otherwise, I'd have to chalk that one up to slapdash plotting.

  25. #75
    Conan
    Guest

    Still havent gotten it :(

    I dont know why issue 3 isnt out where I live. I have the encyclopedia. I want issue 3

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