Updated: Limited Edition MOTU ART BOOK at SDCC - Official Discussion

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Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR

Actually it is market research and usually costs companies lots of money to conduct. Mattel conducts free market research because of sites like He-Man.org! Most other companies realizing this are grateful for the opportunity and in return offer actual news about future items like Hasbro does. Mattel's Q&A read like stiff layer talk most of the time and they take us for granted.

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Doesn't matter. He-Man.org chooses to exist as it is a fan site. Could Mattel reach out to the fans more? Of course. But they could also be reaching out a lot less / not reach out to us at all.

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Originally Posted by scott metzger

People aren’t, for the most part, over-reacting. Folks, understand that the frustration here isn’t just over one book; it’s over years, getting close to a decade now, of Mattel consistently tripping over their own two feet.

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And, apparently, they are tripping over their own feet because they made this a SDCC exclusive, 1000 print run. We've had the same type of reactions over other SDCC exclusives/exclusives in general. Bottom line: people don't like exclusives yet they do. It is a wicked web of fun.

Apparently regardless of where the item was sold, it would be limited to 1000 copies. Would it have been better then to be released on mattycollector.com? Maybe yes, maybe no. If there are copies left over, they will go on Matty. That seems more than reasonable to me for something that is billed as an exclusive.

Why don't we ever think positively? In theory, this limited edition book could be testing the waters for such a product. SDCC gives the book possible more exposure than launching it on Matty. Remember, MOTUC was launched with the King Grayskull exclusive at SDCC. If the book does well, Mattel could then, in theory, want to produce more books and perhaps more quantities of books of a related nature. Perhaps they are testing the waters, not trying to screw over fans. I hate that we are always so negative when to me it seems like Mattel is trying to take steps in the right direction this time. :shrugs:

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Originally Posted by JimPansen

For me it always was the Boxart that makes MotU superior compared to other Toylines. It provides me still that great Fantasy-Adventure feeling, that i so much love.

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Oh yeah, MOTU probably had one of the best if not the best artwork around.
Even by today standards the art is still of the highest quality.

Interesting tid bit for you all.
The Transformers box art was a little lacking in comparison to MOTU.
But the same guy who who designed the great MOTU logo is the same guy who painted those early Transformers boxes! :hmwink:

I would totally agree with The Shadow on this one.

People need to chill IMO.

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Originally Posted by Audric

How ominous...
Maybe you should compare MOTUC to a collector's toyline from the current/recent toy market instead of a toyline that ended over 10 years ago, lasted for 7 years and produced practically every character available.
Heck, even convention exclusives didn't really start to take off until 2000-2001.

I'm not directing my reply directly at you btw, but in general :hmwink:

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Missed this along the way. No personal slight taken, but you missed the point a bit. Trek may have been ten years ago, but it has more in common with MOTUC than a lot of present day lines. It was the first line I recall where the manufacturer came right out and said they believed the bulk of their market was collectors. And I've never seen anything to dispute that since. Times have changed, but that doesn't mean you throw away lessons from the past. Trek could have learned from New Coke, namely that misreading your market can be disastrous. And New Coke could have learned from the Edsel in the same way. And Mattel can learn from all of them.

I brought up a specific example to make a point that is timeless, and any marketing person needs to heed: never take a market for granted, and never assume they'll keep coming back becuase they always have no matter how badly you trip up. Bad decisions can have bad reprocussions whether it's the 90's or the new millenium. There's always that proverbial straw the camel's back can't support, and you never know which mistake that one will be. And with Mattel, you always have a lot of mistakes to chose from. MOTUC isn't going to be the hottest thing going forever; another relevant example here of a big mistake was in the comic book industry, another strongly collector driven market. Companies saw gimmick covers and pointless crossovers and events as profitable in the short term, but. when the speculators they were catering to left, the old fans they'd alienated didn't come swarming back, and the industry nearly collapsed. That this happened several years ago makes it no less relevant today, as I doubt anyone would encourage the comic book industry (or any other industry) to try the same tactic again.

Just because the lesson is old doesn't make it irrelevant to today.:hmwink:

I'm a bit disappointed that this is so limited and hard to come by.
But I remain hopeful that if I can't get my hands on this one that we'll see a re-print someday soon.
We'll see, I guess.

That said, I think people have reason to be disappointed and a little upset.
And I think we need to make it clear that there is demand for this outside of SDCC.

And I'll agree with Emiliano... this thread has been much easier to mod than I expected.
Thank you all for that. :)

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Originally Posted by TheShadow

And, apparently, they are tripping over their own feet because they made this a SDCC exclusive, 1000 print run. We've had the same type of reactions over other SDCC exclusives/exclusives in general. Bottom line: people don't like exclusives yet they do. It is a wicked web of fun.

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Do people really like exclusives? I think the majority of fans just accept that they exist, they have a purpose, and they must be dealt with. And yes, it's nice when the other option is for the item/character to never get made at all. But like them? I'm sure there are some people who like them. Those people who get the exclusive like the feeling of own something "limited" that others don't have. I could go into how that plays into a rather ugly facet of humanity but I won't. :)

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Apparently regardless of where the item was sold, it would be limited to 1000 copies. Would it have been better then to be released on mattycollector.com? Maybe yes, maybe no. If there are copies left over, they will go on Matty. That seems more than reasonable to me for something that is billed as an exclusive.

Why don't we ever think positively? In theory, this limited edition book could be testing the waters for such a product. SDCC gives the book possible more exposure than launching it on Matty. Remember, MOTUC was launched with the King Grayskull exclusive at SDCC. If the book does well, Mattel could then, in theory, want to produce more books and perhaps more quantities of books of a related nature. Perhaps they are testing the waters, not trying to screw over fans. I hate that we are always so negative when to me it seems like Mattel is trying to take steps in the right direction this time. :shrugs:

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If we hadn't been expressly told the book was only possible to produce in this limited quantity because of legal reasons then I'd hold out hope for a wider release. But that's not how it was presented. We don't know the nature of the legal problem (maybe some of the artist's contracts only allow Mattel to use the art as part of promotional material, and anything more then a 1000 copies would not be promo material and they'd have to pay the artists? Pure speculation...) but whatever the problem is it'd probably need money thrown at it to fix it.

Now, does anyone think that a MOTU art book would appeal to more then just a pretty hard core group of fans? As much as art and MOTU are intertwined for myself I kind of doubt it. I actually do wonder about the 1000 books released. Maybe there will be plenty left over. I think the sheen of being a "hot collectible" will make it sell more then it would otherwise... so does that mean a sell out or does that just mean Mattel will be stuck with fewer to sell on mattycollector.com? That's the great unknown. It's unknown for ourselves and it's unknown for Mattel as well. I do think the demand is exaggerated slightly on here. So I don't know that there would realistically be enough demand to justify Mattel spending a lot more money on it for a mass-market release.

So I can see why a limited run makes sense. Making it an SDCC exclusive makes sense too. This way they're sure to sell more then they would have because it's a collectible and it's a way to drum up some noise. And in the end there might be plenty left over to sell on matty and everyone will be happy. Right now people fear the unknown. Because the alternative is that it'll sell-out at SDCC, Mattel won't be able to make more, and people will have to shell out a ton of money (probably to a speculator, as it's the kind of thing most actual fans would treasure and not part with unless under dire financial circumstances.)

Now, at the end of the day I truly believe that Mattel was trying to do something fun and special here. And yes I do think it's unfortunate when people start getting hyperbolic and venomous because it only undercuts the point that there was probably a better way to do this. However, I don't think it accomplishes much to be all roses and sun shine and happy unicorns about it either. Getting angry and annoyed doesn't accomplish much unless you direct that into some sort of action or try to think of ideas on how Mattel could have made it better. I think a lot of people are doing that in this thread. I think setting aside a couple hundred for sale to Org'ers or to be placed on mattycollector would've actually been enough. It might still be enough.

I actually think its great that Mattel at least have made He-Ro available online as well as at SDCC. I'm sure some of the buzz for that figure at SDCC has been muffled because of it. So it's hard to get too mad at Mattel for wanting something that's only for SDCC... I just think this item in particular hit a sore point for a lot of people because the artwork is so beloved. I think that's where you're seeing a lot of the passion people have for it being misdirected. And I think it's appropriate to try to pull on the reigns a bit... I just think it's wrong to characterize it as being without merit or somehow just negativity for negativity's sake.

This news saddens me.

Like many of you I fell in love with the MOTU art as a kid. It s was majestic, gritty, somber and exciting all at the same time. I can remember staring at the art for days.

I am glad this is getting made, don't get me wrong. But I am sad that someone other than Mattel is going to profit when I pay $200 for this on eBay. (I will pay more if I have to)

If Mattel would have announced this early I would have went to the con.

I don’t mean to sound all negative, but this should have been something for the hardcore fan, not the casual, and I feel a little pushed aside.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti

I have all those books of which you speak.:hmgrin: Although, the G.I. Joe Vs Cobra guide book is going to be out of date pretty quickly. It lists Marvel/Devil's Due continuity but then previews IDW's comics in the back. Since ROC, IDW and Resolute all have different canon than what came before, it looks like the original is pretty much dead. Hasbro still crushes Mattel when it comes to licensing comics and books for their products(unless you include that unofficial MOTU book by Roger Sweet, we MOTU fans have yet to see a book that wasn't for coloring or bedtime stories) but I'll take any MOTU related cartoon or movie over what G.I. Joe and Transformers fans have received. Some may disagree vehemently with me, but when I look at other franchises, it could be a lot worse, imho.:hmwink:

By the way, does anyone think it's odd that the MOTU Art Book is 53 pages? Aren't books' page numbers usually given as an even munber?

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yeah it may get dated but the fact that it covers pretty much the whole run from the first issue of marvel to the last issue of DDP makes it a good book since it is covering a single continuity. it was odd that they also included the new IDW run of joe comics but oh well more exposure.

ON TOPIC-
THAT is what i forgot to add to this thread..the PAGE count. it was off to me as well since books,comics,magazines and all other media are usually run with a pagination of 4 pages at a time so 53 pages doesnt make send at all. it would have to be 52 or 56 which are the closest to the 53 stated.

On the page count thing, maybe that's the number of pages with art on them, the number of art pieces they were able to get, so that's the number they're selling?

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Originally Posted by TheShadow

Remember, MOTUC was launched with the King Grayskull exclusive at SDCC. If the book does well, Mattel could then, in theory, want to produce more books and perhaps more quantities of books of a related nature.

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I'm not getting all torch-and-pitchforky about all this, but the MOTUC comparison isn't accurate, because KG was the kick-off figure, not the "testing the waters" figure. They already had a ton of figures in the can and on schedule.

Had KG been that extremely limited, and no confirmation that he was going to be part of a wider line, I can't even imagine the fanboy meltdown that would've ensued. :hmeek:

True, this is the first in the "Designed at Mattel" series, but with no further information, that this is testing the waters for MotU-specific art books is just speculation at this point.

If there's only 1000, there's only 1000. Fine.
If they're gonna be at SDCC, then what can anyone do about it?

But there are many ways that Mattel could be handling this from a PR perspective, and they're doing quite a poor job of disarming anyone.

damn! it sucks to be an international collector... hope to see some page samples posted by Mattel at least

I just gave a wicked bit of trivia there that went totally unnoticed! What gives?? :hmroll:

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Originally Posted by Eamon

Oh yeah, MOTU probably had one of the best if not the best artwork around.
Even by today standards the art is still of the highest quality.

Interesting tid bit for you all.
The Transformers box art was a little lacking in comparison to MOTU.
But the same guy who who designed the great MOTU logo is the same guy who painted those early Transformers boxes! :hmwink:

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Do not forget Dino-Riders' box art!!!

That is pretty amazing, too!

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Originally Posted by Xetheus

Do not forget Dino-Riders' box art!!!

That is pretty amazing, too!

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Oh yeah, they are excellent too but I still think the MOTU art are more works of art if you ask me as there was much more than just the product there. :hmgrin:

Other great art toy box art was the Tarzan figures of the 90's. I have no idea who did those, it looks like William George but I really can't say.

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Originally Posted by Eamon

I just gave a wicked bit of trivia there that went totally unnoticed! What gives?? :hmroll:

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The tranformer/MOTU logo being the same artist? What was the artist name?

While I try not to jump into the mass negativity, I have read this thread and feel that the negativity it really not over the top at all. This is a forum and people are allowed to express what they feel as long as it is not blatant or disrespectful. Anyone who feels this is over the top negativity needs to revisit their history. Remember the 200X Smash/Spinblade fiasco? Now that was bile and venom spewed. Anyone remember the comparisions between Mattel and trained chimps? Val has stated people as long as they can be constructive and not crude can voice negative opinions. I understand those who call for others to chill, but they have to understand that people who want to be negative should have that right as well. Mattel is a public company and they are big boys. They need to learn to take their lumps when they do things in a public forum that people may not like. Just because He-man.org is a site dedicated to a Mattel product, doesn't mean we should give them an automatic pass because we are afriad that if we speak out they will cancel the line. They are a company who is interested in making money and they will produce MOTUC regardless of what we type. The line ends when it stops being profitable. Granted these are my opinions. Thanx again Paul~

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Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR

The tranformer/MOTU logo being the same artist? What was the artist name?

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Don Simpson! :hmgrin:

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Originally Posted by JimPansen

For me it always was the Boxart that makes MotU superior compared to other Toylines. It provides me still that great Fantasy-Adventure feeling, that i so much love.

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The box art was as great as all of those book covers for Conan or other fantasy novels that were so big in the 70's/80's. Unlike most toys who's only art was a drawing of the toy you were buying, MOTU art painted a storyline with their great illustrations. I sure hope MOTU can manage to go mainstream. That's the only chance we'll have of seeing a true coffee table sized book.

1000?

Should be limited to one per person.

I've been begging for a book like this for years, and Mattel finallly does it and creates something that 90% of us will never get to own.

I detest exclusives. It took the market almost 7 years to cool down enough for me to get the rest of the 200X exclusives at a reasonable price.

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Originally Posted by carlosdeanda

damn! it sucks to be an international collector... hope to see some page samples posted by Mattel at least

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Since I'm just a simple boy from the midwest(just outside Chicago:hmwink:) who doesn't get out much, how does MOTU compare with other toylines in terms of international popularity? I know Transformers are huge in Japan(which makes sense since everything that became Transformers & Gobots in the US was cobbled together from various Japanese toylines), but it makes my heart glad to see so many fans from countries outside of MOTU's origins. Did any of those countries have exclusive comics or books based on MOTU like the UK had(which I really need to see reprinted in the US)?

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Originally Posted by Eamon

I just gave a wicked bit of trivia there that went totally unnoticed! What gives?? :hmroll:

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I'm trying to forget that Transformers even exist thanks to Michael Bay.:hmwink:

I kind of forget that Transformers had some pretty good box art as well. The one thing I love that Mattel has finally started doing with the MOTUC are the bios. They may not be as detailed as Hasbros were for G.I. Joe or Transformers, but they're better than anything we MOTU fans have received before. It's only taken them 28 years to start work on one definitive canon for He-Man.:hmwink: It's funny that it is happening around the same time that Hasbro's franchises are seeing their continuities falling apart due to reboots, "updates", merging of canons, or general lack of respect for what's come before, imho.

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Originally Posted by Xetheus

Do not forget Dino-Riders' box art!!!

That is pretty amazing, too!

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I was just about to start another anti-Hasbro rant about how they were doing nothing with another potentially great line like Dino-Riders(along with M.A.S.K., C.O.P.S., and Gobots), but it looks like Mattel actually owns the rights to Dini-Riders since they bought Tyco.

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Originally Posted by thexxwatcherxx

Remember the 200X Smash/Spinblade fiasco? Now that was bile and venom spewed. Anyone remember the comparisions between Mattel and trained chimps?

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For the record, the comparison was to poorly trained chimpanzees, as opposed to the well trained variety. We don't want to generalize and offend the high acheivers in the simian world. :hmlol:

Constructive criticism is still criticism, and still by nature rather negative. And I understand people having a hard time being positive when they stand by and watch yet another major blunder by Mattel.

And it does have a positive effect in the long run: Mattel really would have to be in a world all their own not to see the passion being expressed about this and other problems. THey've got a strong fan base here, and the furor being raised should tell them that. Would you rather see everyone going, "Ah, who cares"? This kind of reaction tells Mattel they have a devoted market worthy of keeping.

So $150+ is the current eBay presale auction price on one listing. Another seller has already pre-sold 11 copies ranging in price from $100 to $150 and he has another one available for $175.

It's too early to tell if these prices will hold, or if this seller can actually get all 12 copies he's pre-selling, but he won't be the only one trying to take advantage of this situation. If nothing else, these secondary market prices will only drive up demand from speculative interest. No way these will be available on Matty Collector after the show.

Maybe Mattel should have sold these for $100 through their website. The books would have gone directly to more fans and Mattel would be making more profit.

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Originally Posted by Zodach

Maybe Mattel should have sold these for $100 through their website. The books would have gone directly to more fans and Mattel would be making more profit.

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That would be great.

I would gladly pay double to get the book through Matty as opposed to a reseller.

It was way back in the beginning of this thread, but I think Tallstar mentioned something about writing Mattel in regard to the issue? I may be imagining things, but... Anyway, I think that writing a physical letter is a good suggestion if you feel strongly enough about the issue to do so. E-mails and message boards are nice and they make communication easy, but as of late, and for the most part, I think it's kind of like sending any complaints into a black hole of no return.

For those who are making the trip out to San Diego, maybe if we come into contact with any Mattel reps or if any of us attend Mattel's conference... if there is an open Q & A session at some point, perhaps we can voice a complaint that way as well (constructively and politely).

Regardless, I agree with some of the others... it will be difficult to obtain the book, even if you happen to be at the convention. Some of my buds waited in the broiling San Diego sun for five hours (the morning after preview night) in a line that wrapped around the convention center twice, solely to obtain their badges (the convention center is the size of several football fields, just to put it into perspective for those who haven't attended), and that was two years ago. I mean, if you don't happen to have a preview night/ 4 day pass or an exhibitor/professional badge, technically those books could be gone before you even step foot into the place (though I don't think that will be the case, because of the high price point).

The two books per customer, per line wait seems kind of irksome as well. Given the circumstances, I almost feel that a one or two book limit per person, PERIOD would've been more appropriate... with a certain number of books set aside for Matty Collector from the start. At the end of the day though, Mattel wants to make money, so from that perspective I can see where/ how a customer limit would go out the window early on. Alas, if I see any exhibitors switching badges/getting back in line multiple times, my eyes may ignite with the red Terminator glow of death.

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Originally Posted by Emiliano

That's what I don't get.
Should people stop complaining so Mattel will never know they are upset they can't get it and thinks there is no demand for this book and never try to re release it again? :hmwink:

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Complaining about exclusives really doesn't work. If the massive complaints about Gleek and Hal Jordan being exclusive that will never show up again didn't
get Mattel's notice on the subjects of exclusives, then this art book sure won't...

But the MOTU Art Book isn't being offered as an exclusive [IE in limited numbers] because Mattel chose to produce it that way but because certain existing legal issues require Mattel to offer it in limited numbers.

I'm certain that if Mattel could they'd be offering that art book as a general release through MattyCollector at the very least. I'd love a copy of the book and I hope that Mattel gets these legal issues cleared up so they can sell it as a general release.

Fans noting their dissatisfaction with the art book being limited to 1000 copies can prove useful in this case. If Mattel [via observing various fan outlets] sees that there really is big demand for this book; it'll give the MOTUC team the firepower to go to Mattel's money holders and say "see, this really can make money so it's worth the legal expense to make it happen".

Even better than simply posting online at observed communities [even through a great fan communty like He-Man.org] would be an organized letter campaign. Mailbags full of politely written letters declaring that fans want this MOTU art book would be even better evidence for the MOTUC team.