I don’t understand the argument that Adam is weak. He died to save everyone. On the other side he decided to not be He Man but Adam. Is that weakness?
Well all the fans can hate cause right now rotten tomatoes has a positive score by the critics and the fans have been called out for writing negative reviews. :telol:
We have five more episodes. Goddess knows what will happen
This is exactly what I said, why are you writing it again as if it's new info?Quote:
Originally Posted by tnktrk
Did you see what you wrote? Teela doesn't ask for his help he has to convince her, she makes the choice.Quote:
- but Orko who persuades her to take him,
Did you see what you wrote? Beastman it's only there to serve a womanQuote:
Beast Man due to his loyalty of Evil-Lyn,
.Quote:
and Roboto who is a 'mechanical clone' of Duncan in effect his son. That's 3 women and 3 men
Men got a robot, not even a living being, a dying trollan, and a guard dog running around saying my lady, my lady turning beastman into a meme.
While the woman got a capable warrior, wizard, and engineer.
Why wasn't 6 capable people?
Duncan didn't want to go but after Orko and Roboto said they wanted to go he said he was going as well and teela said no.Quote:
Don't forget, Teela wanted Duncan on the team but declined, at first to protect the weakened Sorceress, you know...Teela's mother. He lost her someone she cares for, don't want to lose someone else.
I strongly disagree about Adam being portrayed as "weak". Because he chose to be "Adam" in Heaven rather than strut around the afterlife with his massive biceps and furry loincloth? Who the heck would he still be trying to impress after he's frickin' dead? C'mon. Superman doesn't wear his costume around the house, for crying out loud, it's his "work clothes". Sometimes I wonder how many people truly understand who these characters are. Or more directly, how the characters see themselves.
We're clearly meant to take it as him having humility - and that humility in turn is part of WHY he's "The Greatest Of All He-Men" - and NOT that "he's a puny, weak girly-man."
As for "strong male characters", I honestly thought EVERY character in the series (with the exception of Randor and a couple other minor exceptions) was portrayed "strong" and given lots of shine. That's a big part of why I liked it so much.
There's definitely several characters I thought could have been given more to do or been treated with a little more love - Randor, Beast Man, Trap Jaw, there are probably others - but I thought that everyone who was given the prime "real estate" of the story was portrayed "strong".
When the worst thing I can say about ANY character is "I would have liked to see more", that's altogether a great thing.
I didn't think any character (except maybe Randor, in all of One Scene where his actions can still be sort of justified) was disrespected at all. Rather the opposite, quite frankly.
There were male characters doing cool stuff and being bad-ass all OVER this show. The fact that some of that "cool stuff" ended up being Heroic Sacrifice, to me, doesn't mean they were being disrespected, but again rather the opposite of that.
Plus, there are just plain more male characters in MOTU than female ones, and the show promised a body count from the jump, so are we really shocked that it's primarily male characters dying? The Male/Female ratio on Eternia has always been about 500-to-1 to begin with!
I don't know, man. I very strongly feel like a person reading this series as "disrespecting male characters to elevate female characters" is seeing exactly what they want (or decided last year) to see.
I confess, I THOUGHT that's what this show would be like, I really did. But it doesn't play that way to me AT ALL.
So, when presented with a good argument for why the show was more equal than you think, you start to pick apart the details?Quote:
Originally Posted by Battledog
A robot? A Trollan? A guard dog? These don't count as a male presence?? Is it only a MAN if he wears the harness and carries the sword?
Come on now, sometimes your friend's cookie is going to have more chocolate chips in it than yours.... it doesn't mean that Keebler is diabolical.
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Well said, I completely agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaGearMax
I do not trust those elves. :hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornclown
Also, technically, aside from being programmed with a man's personality and intelligence, Roboto by definition is gender-neutral. Because he is a machine, and therefore has no sex organs or hormones which would define "male" or "female". :hmtung:
Pedantic, I know. :hmlol: But Roboto has the exact same gender-defining characteristics as a GPS, if we wanna get down to brass tacks.
:hmlol::hmlol::hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Latveria
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Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx
I suppose I was just going off the fact that Roboto's voice actor was male... but, even then, it could be debatable.
Oh, for sure. To use the parlance of our times, Roboto most certainly "presents as Male". He's built stocky and has a male voice and literally the personality and intelligence of his male creator. Just like Arnold's Terminators do. You can say he's a dude and obviously that should be fine. I call him "he". I think everybody does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornclown
BUT... machines can't be Male or Female. They're machines. :hmgrin: Your car, your VCR, or your blender, by definition cannot be either male or female, even if you ascribe traits onto them to present them as such.
But yeah, Roboto's "a guy" I'm just being pedantic on purpose. :hmtung: It's something fun to talk about besides The Other Stuff so I decided to have some fun with it.
It occurred to me that this debate is very reminiscent of The Last Jedi. I'm not going to say that Revelation was anywhere near as bad as that steaming pile of trash. But there was definitely a whole lot of subverting our expectations in Revelation. Whether you see that as good or bad, one thing is for sure, the subverting expectations thing tends to divide the fandom.
Actually, based on current views on gender, Roboto not having genitals is irrelevant as sex and gender do not always align.
In this instance, insofar as Roboto is a sentient AI, whatever gender Roboto identifies with would be Roboto's gender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAKER II
I mean, maybe? Except they DID try to set peoples' expectations accordingly, at least to a point.
- They DID say Teela got more screen-time than Adam or He-Man
- They DID say that He-Man was "missing" for most of the series and that the plot was about other characters dealing with that, like a long time ago already
- They DID say that characters would die and that the stakes were higher than the Filmation cartoon
I think some people chose to ignore all of that and set their OWN expectations regardless of what they were already told beforehand.
I once had a therapist tell me, "Expectations are nothing but the first step towards being disappointed. Expect nothing, ever, and you'll be amazed at how many things can surprise you while others fail to disappoint you."
It's rather a broad point BUT it's an accurate one. Even if in practice it's very difficult to live up to. We all have expectations... BUT, that's also literally why we get upset when we don't get what we want. It makes it harder to accept the good in what's there because we get so hung up on it not being exactly what we asked for.
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I was doing schtick, let's not read too much into it. :hmlol: He's not even "alive" fer chrissakes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Latveria
A good argument wasn't presented, thats why I replied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornclown
The discussion isn't about this the discussion is how they were treated. They were obviously there, no one is going to deny that. I clearly posted its 3 and 2. I don't really count roboto in the guys team.Quote:
A robot? A Trollan? A guard dog? These don't count as a male presence?? Is it only a MAN if he wears the harness and carries the sword?
From where are you getting the idea that the writing process of this show was pure chance?Quote:
Come on now, sometimes your friend's cookie is going to have more chocolate chips in it than yours.... it doesn't mean that Keebler is diabolical.
I think part of the problem we're seeing with this backlash is that this show is aimed at an audience (men in their 40's) who were primarily raised on the notions of equality and turning a blind eye to skin color and gender. The show writers, however, are ones that ascribe to the concept of equity and actually putting race and gender at the forefront of one's identity. Hence a clash of ideals.
Anyway, I personally feel that there's a difference between humility and incompetence. Adam was clearly portrayed as the latter, as in this episode alone he:
- gets knocked around by Vikor and Kuduk and Teela has to catch him after he introduces them as his friends
- gets thrown around by Kuduk's lizard mount and Teela has to catch him a second time, mimicking the flashback where He-Man twirled her around to show that the roles have reversed now.
- flies off a cliff and it's only thanks to Teela and her grapnel that they are saved, as she swings down to catch him a THIRD time like a little child
- immediately loses his balance, falls and gets covered in mud while Teela easily recovers
- is carried like a doll by Vikor to the "winner's circle", to be immediately addressed as "Flea-man" by his ancestor (don't ask me how those genetics work :hmroll:)
- is reminded by Grayskull that he isn't special and that anyone can be a Champion
- is the only who cowers in terror when Triklop's minions attack, to be saved by Beast Man
- and then of course dies right afterwards just as he was about to regain his "He-manhood"
Not once does he show even the slightest sign of competence in the entire five episodes. I get that there are different ways of interpreting the above, but my gosh, when you put it all together, it paints a pretty damning picture of how the writers view Adam.
The label 'haters' is banned here, stop using it.
How dare free minded people openly criticise. All praise the shill media who, let's be honest, are only giving it points for the inclusivity and nothing else!Quote:
Originally Posted by Divia
Your opinion of this show is positively schizophrenic, my dude. :hmlol: It's like you go back from praise to venom by the hour, seemingly. I'm getting whiplash.
And thanks to Cerbereus tossing me across the ring like a flapjack on Saturday I ALREADY HAVE WHIPLASH so please be a little more sensitive to my condition, SIR. :hmlol:
This shows definitely bringing out the worst of both sides . If all the snarky man hating women and all the sexist women hating men would just take a week off , the rest of us could just enjoy the fact that motus back and were halfway through what's so far been a great show . Giving he man and skeletor a time out has allowed orko , evil Lynne , Tri klops and roboto to shine , eternias never looked so gorgeous , and if you really REALLY hate the fact it's the teela show , there's 130 episodes of filmation , a bucketload of guest spots in she ra , 65 episodes of NA and 39 episodes of 200x . Plus a movie. And a Christmas special , fill your boots
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
In a perfect world, each episode would be double-length, and you could then have enough time for parallel storylines about Teela's Quest AND what's going on with Adam in the afterlife, which could be fun to explore. Although their eventual "reunion" would probably have to be played a little differently.
That way you could keep Teela as the Active Protagonist in the first half but still have plenty of Adam around onscreen.
I wonder if perhaps that sort of thing would be enough to sate some people's complaints. Although they would probably still be upset that he's "Adam" in Heaven and not "He-Man", or that Adam's even dead to begin with. Pretty sure some people would still find something to be mad about regardless.
Ah well. The show's only 24 minutes long so we got what we got.
But yeah, if I'm in a mood where ALL I want to see is He-Man wrecking house, there's lots of hours of entertainment I can indulge in, so I'm not altogether heartbroken that he's not as much presence during this particular two hours and change. If I'm in the mood for a well-told MOTU arc that turns up the volume a little bit, in spite of not revolving entirely around He-Man being the one doing the heavy lifting, then that's what I've got this for.
I'm known to do that on a range of subjects. I like to understand both sides and hate when one is ridiculed over the other for reasons I don't find all that surprising considering the tone and execution of the show, and who are always dismissed as basement dwellers, 'ists' and 'phobes'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx
Revelation had a lot of good, but a lot of bad too, so if I go back and forth on it, there is always a reason.
I don't look at it as bi-polar/schizo, just a more extreme example of striking a 'balance'.:hmgrin:, whether or not it 'works' is up to interpretation.
Yeah but when you rage about All This Other Stuff but never once even mention Tri-Klops's Stupid Hat, which is 100% THE most egregious thing of all... I have to question if you're conversing in good faith. Sir. :hmtung:
I'm gonna buy you that hat for Christmas [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
You do that and I'll "stuff it up your stocking", wiseguy. :hmlol::hmlol::hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by davelove81
No, seriously, that was a good rib. I almost choked on my, uh... "glaucoma medicine". :hmwink:
The Tri-Klops Klan!:hmgrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx
Oh, GOD, that's even worse than "The Pope Of Chili-Town". :hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Samurai
Not sure Mattel would be making that figure. :hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Samurai
If they did they'd probably only sell it in the Carolinas. :hmlol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M
Unrelated but we need hooded Cobra Commander. :hmwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx